Why Will Israel Accept The Antichrist?
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That just doesn't make sense to me.
Why would the prophecy of “seventy weeks" indicate anything but 70 sequential weeks? Why would this biblical time period start, then stop at what the experts call a 'gap,' and then start up again some 2000 years later? If that's the case then the week following the 69th week really isn't the 70th week since there's a 2000 year gap!
Verse 25 and 26 speak about the Messiah. So grammatically speaking it makes no sense that if verse 26 speaks of the Messiah, and then have a 2,000 year gap between it and verse 27.... THEN to have verse 27 suddenly change into speaking about the anti-Christ 2,000 years in the future.
The Messiah being “cut off" is referring to Christ’s death.
Why would the prophecy of “seventy weeks" indicate anything but 70 sequential weeks? Why would this biblical time period start, then stop at what the experts call a 'gap,' and then start up again some 2000 years later? If that's the case then the week following the 69th week really isn't the 70th week since there's a 2000 year gap!
Verse 25 and 26 speak about the Messiah. So grammatically speaking it makes no sense that if verse 26 speaks of the Messiah, and then have a 2,000 year gap between it and verse 27.... THEN to have verse 27 suddenly change into speaking about the anti-Christ 2,000 years in the future.
The Messiah being “cut off" is referring to Christ’s death.
Correct. Also Matthew 24. First Christ predicted the destruction of the existing temple. Then He spoke of the Abomination of Desolation standing in the Holy Place followed by the Great Tribulation (connected with the "desolations"). Since the Great Tribulation is unique and has never occurred, both things are in the future, and connected to Revelation 13 and all the events which follow to Rev 19.
This is difficult to cover briefly, so my apologies...
Using those passages, I'll show you why I don't see the need for the rebuilding of a Jewish temple.
Mathew 24:15
"When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand"
The holy place in Mathew 24:15 is not the Temple or the Holy of Holies but simply the surrounding area of it as described in Strong's #5117.
1) place, any portion or space marked off, as it were from surrounding space
a) an inhabited place, as a city, village, district
a place (passage) in a book
2) metaph.
a) the condition or station held by one in any company or assembly
opportunity, power, occasion for acting
If Jesus wanted to indicate the "Holy of Holies" in Mathew 24:15 He would have used this word...
2665. katapetasma kat-ap-et'-as-mah from a compound of 2596 and a congener of 4072; something spread thoroughly, i.e. (specially) the door screen
(to the Most Holy Place) in the Jewish Temple:--vail.
Holy of Holies
I do agree that the Abomination of Desolation is the future anti-Christ, but NOT that he verifies himself in a Jewish Temple. The Dome of the Rock complex is sufficient to fulfill Mathew 24:15.
In Revelation 11:2, the Apostle John was instructed to measure the temple. "But exclude the outer court; do not measure it, because it has been given to the Gentiles. They will trample on the holy city for 42 months."
These 42 months, or 3 1/2 years, make up the time the Assyrian anti-Christ will trample on the holy city of Jerusalem fulfilling himself as the abomination. The 'abomination' will be set up in the outer courts, the court of the Gentiles, located around the Dome of the Rock complex. The religious complex of the Dome, the outer court, or the Al'Aqsa mosque is sufficient to fulfill end-time prophecy.
2 Thessalonians 2:3-4
Since the man of sin is said to "sit in the temple of God," many believe a temple needs rebuilding. The 'experts' also use Daniel 9:26-27 to say another temple needs rebuilding.
"Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God."
Look at these odd coincidences...
The word temple in 2 Thes. 2 is 'naos' Strong's # 3485 and that word is the one used to imply a heathen temple.
1) used of the temple at Jerusalem,
2) any heathen temple or shrine.
This word is also used in the book of Acts to describe the temple that the idol stood in.
Is it just a coincidence that in East Jerusalem an Islamic complex sits upon Herod's and Solomon's Temple?
The word God in this verse is theos. The primary meaning of that word is of any god or goddess. It is also used to describe the one true God.
When I looked at this in the Greek interlinear, the word "THE" is missing in the KJV but IS in the Greek Interlinear. (as well as other bible translations). Also, the word God is capitalized twice and twice it's not.
Since the word 'Theos' is a god or goddess, and the word "TEMPLE" is "any heathen shrine or temple, and that the word THE is NOT in the KJV but IS in the interlinear, and considering that the interlinear capitalized the word God only twice when it's used FOUR times in the verse,...
You can confirm that HERE
My conclusion is that this is how the verse should be presented....
Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called god, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the heathen temple of the god (Allah), shewing himself that he is God.
Daniel 9:25-27
Nearly every unbiased commentator including Hebrew scholars agree that this passage is a difficult one to interpret. I've spent countless hour reading, researching, pondering and praying about the correct interpretation of this passage and I'm still undecided about it.
The following is the interpretation that I, for now, have arrived at.
In the middle of the week "he shall cause the sacrifice to cease.”
This is fulfilled because after 3 ½ years into Christ ministry, Jesus was crucified putting an end to all sacrifices! Jesus Christ is that final Sacrifice! This is confirmed by the veil being torn in the temple's Holy Place.
Hebrews 10:12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
In Matthew 27: 50-51 the veil of the temple was torn from top to bottom when Jesus died. In Leviticus 4:1-20 the priest would kill the animal for sacrificial purposes and take the blood and sprinkle it on the veil. The veil in the temple separated the holy and the Most Holy place and this sprinkling of blood would absolve their sins.
The torn veil at the death of Jesus means that He caused the sacrifice and oblation to cease because he is the final sacrifice. This is confirmed in Matthew 27: 50-51 and Hebrews 10:12.
"But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;"
"Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost. And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;"
"and for the overspreading of abominations...
Was it not an abomination that the Jewish leaders crucified Christ? Was it not an abomination that they continued with the law and their sacrificial ceremonies after the crucifixion up to the time the temple was destroyed? That's why verse 27 say's, ...and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation."
Because of Israel's unbelief the temple was made desolate and remained destroyed even until today and will remain desolate until the time of the end. (consummation of the age)
This is why I believe that a Temple will not be rebuilt.
Using those passages, I'll show you why I don't see the need for the rebuilding of a Jewish temple.
Mathew 24:15
"When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand"
The holy place in Mathew 24:15 is not the Temple or the Holy of Holies but simply the surrounding area of it as described in Strong's #5117.
1) place, any portion or space marked off, as it were from surrounding space
a) an inhabited place, as a city, village, district
a place (passage) in a book
2) metaph.
a) the condition or station held by one in any company or assembly
opportunity, power, occasion for acting
If Jesus wanted to indicate the "Holy of Holies" in Mathew 24:15 He would have used this word...
2665. katapetasma kat-ap-et'-as-mah from a compound of 2596 and a congener of 4072; something spread thoroughly, i.e. (specially) the door screen
(to the Most Holy Place) in the Jewish Temple:--vail.
Holy of Holies
I do agree that the Abomination of Desolation is the future anti-Christ, but NOT that he verifies himself in a Jewish Temple. The Dome of the Rock complex is sufficient to fulfill Mathew 24:15.
In Revelation 11:2, the Apostle John was instructed to measure the temple. "But exclude the outer court; do not measure it, because it has been given to the Gentiles. They will trample on the holy city for 42 months."
These 42 months, or 3 1/2 years, make up the time the Assyrian anti-Christ will trample on the holy city of Jerusalem fulfilling himself as the abomination. The 'abomination' will be set up in the outer courts, the court of the Gentiles, located around the Dome of the Rock complex. The religious complex of the Dome, the outer court, or the Al'Aqsa mosque is sufficient to fulfill end-time prophecy.
2 Thessalonians 2:3-4
Since the man of sin is said to "sit in the temple of God," many believe a temple needs rebuilding. The 'experts' also use Daniel 9:26-27 to say another temple needs rebuilding.
"Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God."
Look at these odd coincidences...
The word temple in 2 Thes. 2 is 'naos' Strong's # 3485 and that word is the one used to imply a heathen temple.
1) used of the temple at Jerusalem,
2) any heathen temple or shrine.
This word is also used in the book of Acts to describe the temple that the idol stood in.
Is it just a coincidence that in East Jerusalem an Islamic complex sits upon Herod's and Solomon's Temple?
The word God in this verse is theos. The primary meaning of that word is of any god or goddess. It is also used to describe the one true God.
When I looked at this in the Greek interlinear, the word "THE" is missing in the KJV but IS in the Greek Interlinear. (as well as other bible translations). Also, the word God is capitalized twice and twice it's not.
Since the word 'Theos' is a god or goddess, and the word "TEMPLE" is "any heathen shrine or temple, and that the word THE is NOT in the KJV but IS in the interlinear, and considering that the interlinear capitalized the word God only twice when it's used FOUR times in the verse,...
You can confirm that HERE
My conclusion is that this is how the verse should be presented....
Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called god, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the heathen temple of the god (Allah), shewing himself that he is God.
Daniel 9:25-27
Nearly every unbiased commentator including Hebrew scholars agree that this passage is a difficult one to interpret. I've spent countless hour reading, researching, pondering and praying about the correct interpretation of this passage and I'm still undecided about it.
The following is the interpretation that I, for now, have arrived at.
In the middle of the week "he shall cause the sacrifice to cease.”
This is fulfilled because after 3 ½ years into Christ ministry, Jesus was crucified putting an end to all sacrifices! Jesus Christ is that final Sacrifice! This is confirmed by the veil being torn in the temple's Holy Place.
Hebrews 10:12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
In Matthew 27: 50-51 the veil of the temple was torn from top to bottom when Jesus died. In Leviticus 4:1-20 the priest would kill the animal for sacrificial purposes and take the blood and sprinkle it on the veil. The veil in the temple separated the holy and the Most Holy place and this sprinkling of blood would absolve their sins.
The torn veil at the death of Jesus means that He caused the sacrifice and oblation to cease because he is the final sacrifice. This is confirmed in Matthew 27: 50-51 and Hebrews 10:12.
"But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;"
"Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost. And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;"
"and for the overspreading of abominations...
Was it not an abomination that the Jewish leaders crucified Christ? Was it not an abomination that they continued with the law and their sacrificial ceremonies after the crucifixion up to the time the temple was destroyed? That's why verse 27 say's, ...and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation."
Because of Israel's unbelief the temple was made desolate and remained destroyed even until today and will remain desolate until the time of the end. (consummation of the age)
This is why I believe that a Temple will not be rebuilt.
Dudley, I am not obsessed with pre-trib, but eagerly looking forward to the blessed hope. According to all combined scripture regarding this subject, the promises and the nature of the Lord, I believe that the gathering of the church will take place prior to the first seal being opened which initiates God's wrath and which believers are not appointed to suffer, ergo, we must be removed.
When Jesus made His promise to the disciples and all believers in John 14:1-3 saying that, in His Fathers house there are many mansions, i.e. dwelling places and that He was going there to prepare places for us and that He would come back and get us so that we could be where He is, i.e. in those dwelling places in the Father's house (heaven). The first part of the Lord's promise is "Let not your hearts be troubled." Likewise, when Paul finished giving a detailed account of the Lord's return to gather the church, he said, "therefore, comfort each other with these words." Paul in writing to Titus spoke of believers waiting for the "blessed hope" the appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ - Titus 2:13. All that said, if the living church was to remain upon the earth and be gathered when Jesus returns to the earth to end the age, the living church would go through the entire wrath of God, which will be carried out via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments. In that case Jesus' comforting words to believers to "let not your hearts be troubled," Paul's comforting words for believers to "comfort each other with these words" of the living believers being gathered, would be no comfort at all and that because you would have the church suffering the same wrath that the unrighteous would be suffering. It would surely be no blessed hope. And there would be no comfort in it.
This erroneous teaching that the Lord is going to gather His church when He returns to the earth to end the age, is due to false teachers and their teachings and those who adopt those teachings and overlay them onto God's word. And for those who claim that God is going to protect the church on the earth during the time of His wrath, they neither understand the severity nor the magnitude of the wrath that is coming. To quote Jesus regarding that time of wrath He said, "if those days not shortened, no one on the earth would be left alive." They also ignore the fact that the word "church" is abruptly dropped from the text after the end of Revelation chapter 3 and is never mentioned during the narrative of God's wrath. But because you and others have given into false teachers, you ignore all of these clues and instead you just repeat the same apologetics that you've read.
I am so sure of what the word of God has promised regarding the church not appointed to suffer God's wrath, the Lord's promise to rescue us from the time of wrath and His promise to keep us out of that hour of testing, that I can say without a doubt that the Lord will come for His church before that first seal is opened. But just to humor what you are presenting, if I found myself here on the earth and the antichrist was revealed, establishing his covenant with Israel, then I would realize that end-time events are not taking place as I have studied them and I would confess it to God, asking for forgiveness and also pray for His strength to go through the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments and to give me strength to keep the testimony of Jesus and the word of God and to resist the beast, his image and his mark, even unto death. However, as Paul said, believers do not belong to the darkness so that this day should take us by surprise like a thief in the night. God does not punish the righteous with the wicked and punishment and wrath is exactly what will be going on during those last seven years.
You see, you and others make a false assumption thinking that our faith rests upon the pre-trib gathering of the churfch. My faith is not based on when the gathering takes place, but on the shed blood of Christ. Therefore, my attitude is always to be prepared for persecution and death while keeping the testimony of Jesus and the word of God and in fact it is apart of my daily prayers. Therefore, for the sake of your theoretical assumption, I would be and am ready to keep my testimony of Jesus and the word of God regardless of how end-time events play out. But as far as all that I have studied, cross-referencing and comparing all related scriptures on this subject, I know that that the Lord is going to remove His church prior to that first seal being opened.
So now, here's a scenario for you and those who believe as you do: what are you going to do when one day the Lord comes and gathers the church from the earth and following that the antichrist is revealed and you realize that you are now in the time of God's wrath and will have to endure it and the beasts persecution, because you didn't believe in the Lord's promise and were not looking for His coming, but instead looking for God's wrath and the beasts kingdom? The only reason that people will be here during the time of God's wrath, will be because they did not believe in Christ. Being on the earth during that time will not be honorable.
When Jesus made His promise to the disciples and all believers in John 14:1-3 saying that, in His Fathers house there are many mansions, i.e. dwelling places and that He was going there to prepare places for us and that He would come back and get us so that we could be where He is, i.e. in those dwelling places in the Father's house (heaven). The first part of the Lord's promise is "Let not your hearts be troubled." Likewise, when Paul finished giving a detailed account of the Lord's return to gather the church, he said, "therefore, comfort each other with these words." Paul in writing to Titus spoke of believers waiting for the "blessed hope" the appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ - Titus 2:13. All that said, if the living church was to remain upon the earth and be gathered when Jesus returns to the earth to end the age, the living church would go through the entire wrath of God, which will be carried out via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments. In that case Jesus' comforting words to believers to "let not your hearts be troubled," Paul's comforting words for believers to "comfort each other with these words" of the living believers being gathered, would be no comfort at all and that because you would have the church suffering the same wrath that the unrighteous would be suffering. It would surely be no blessed hope. And there would be no comfort in it.
This erroneous teaching that the Lord is going to gather His church when He returns to the earth to end the age, is due to false teachers and their teachings and those who adopt those teachings and overlay them onto God's word. And for those who claim that God is going to protect the church on the earth during the time of His wrath, they neither understand the severity nor the magnitude of the wrath that is coming. To quote Jesus regarding that time of wrath He said, "if those days not shortened, no one on the earth would be left alive." They also ignore the fact that the word "church" is abruptly dropped from the text after the end of Revelation chapter 3 and is never mentioned during the narrative of God's wrath. But because you and others have given into false teachers, you ignore all of these clues and instead you just repeat the same apologetics that you've read.
I am so sure of what the word of God has promised regarding the church not appointed to suffer God's wrath, the Lord's promise to rescue us from the time of wrath and His promise to keep us out of that hour of testing, that I can say without a doubt that the Lord will come for His church before that first seal is opened. But just to humor what you are presenting, if I found myself here on the earth and the antichrist was revealed, establishing his covenant with Israel, then I would realize that end-time events are not taking place as I have studied them and I would confess it to God, asking for forgiveness and also pray for His strength to go through the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments and to give me strength to keep the testimony of Jesus and the word of God and to resist the beast, his image and his mark, even unto death. However, as Paul said, believers do not belong to the darkness so that this day should take us by surprise like a thief in the night. God does not punish the righteous with the wicked and punishment and wrath is exactly what will be going on during those last seven years.
You see, you and others make a false assumption thinking that our faith rests upon the pre-trib gathering of the churfch. My faith is not based on when the gathering takes place, but on the shed blood of Christ. Therefore, my attitude is always to be prepared for persecution and death while keeping the testimony of Jesus and the word of God and in fact it is apart of my daily prayers. Therefore, for the sake of your theoretical assumption, I would be and am ready to keep my testimony of Jesus and the word of God regardless of how end-time events play out. But as far as all that I have studied, cross-referencing and comparing all related scriptures on this subject, I know that that the Lord is going to remove His church prior to that first seal being opened.
So now, here's a scenario for you and those who believe as you do: what are you going to do when one day the Lord comes and gathers the church from the earth and following that the antichrist is revealed and you realize that you are now in the time of God's wrath and will have to endure it and the beasts persecution, because you didn't believe in the Lord's promise and were not looking for His coming, but instead looking for God's wrath and the beasts kingdom? The only reason that people will be here during the time of God's wrath, will be because they did not believe in Christ. Being on the earth during that time will not be honorable.
By the way, there is another scripture that has already been proven where God spoke a prophecy with part of it being fulfilled with the last part of being unfulfilled and therefore still future. Consider the following:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Then Jesus came to Nazareth, where He had been brought up. As was His custom, He entered the synagogue on the Sabbath. And when He stood up to read, the scroll of the prophet Isaiah was handed to Him. Unrolling it, He found the place where it was written:
“The Spirit of the Lord is on Me,
because He has anointed Me
to preach good news to the poor.
He has sent Me to proclaim deliverance to the captives
and recovery of sight to the blind,
to release the oppressed,
to proclaim the year of the Lord’s favor.”
Then He rolled up the scroll, returned it to the attendant, and sat down. The eyes of everyone in the synagogue were fixed on Him, and He began by saying, “Today this Scripture is fulfilled in your hearing.” - Luke 4:16-21
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Now, compare the scripture that Jesus read from the actual scripture in Isaiah:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The Spirit of the Sovereign Lord is on me,
because the Lord has anointed me
to proclaim good news to the poor.
He has sent me to bind up the brokenhearted,
to proclaim freedom for the captives
and release from darkness for the prisoner's,
to proclaim the year of the Lord’s favor
and the day of vengeance of our God,
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
In Luke, Jesus reads the above scripture up to the verse which says "to proclaim the year of the Lord's favor" and then He stopped reading, leaving off "and the day of vengeance of our God." And the reason that the Lord did not include the "day of vengeance" part is because that part of the prophecy had not yet taken place at the time that He was reading it and in fact has still not taken place. The "vengeance of our God" is referring to the time of God's wrath, the day of the Lord, which is still future and will take place during that last seven years. So, in this example we have a prophecy regarding Christ as being fulfilled, with the last part of the verse being yet future. Therefore, why do you say that other parts of prophecy cannot be fulfilled at different times?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Then Jesus came to Nazareth, where He had been brought up. As was His custom, He entered the synagogue on the Sabbath. And when He stood up to read, the scroll of the prophet Isaiah was handed to Him. Unrolling it, He found the place where it was written:
“The Spirit of the Lord is on Me,
because He has anointed Me
to preach good news to the poor.
He has sent Me to proclaim deliverance to the captives
and recovery of sight to the blind,
to release the oppressed,
to proclaim the year of the Lord’s favor.”
Then He rolled up the scroll, returned it to the attendant, and sat down. The eyes of everyone in the synagogue were fixed on Him, and He began by saying, “Today this Scripture is fulfilled in your hearing.” - Luke 4:16-21
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Now, compare the scripture that Jesus read from the actual scripture in Isaiah:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The Spirit of the Sovereign Lord is on me,
because the Lord has anointed me
to proclaim good news to the poor.
He has sent me to bind up the brokenhearted,
to proclaim freedom for the captives
and release from darkness for the prisoner's,
to proclaim the year of the Lord’s favor
and the day of vengeance of our God,
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
In Luke, Jesus reads the above scripture up to the verse which says "to proclaim the year of the Lord's favor" and then He stopped reading, leaving off "and the day of vengeance of our God." And the reason that the Lord did not include the "day of vengeance" part is because that part of the prophecy had not yet taken place at the time that He was reading it and in fact has still not taken place. The "vengeance of our God" is referring to the time of God's wrath, the day of the Lord, which is still future and will take place during that last seven years. So, in this example we have a prophecy regarding Christ as being fulfilled, with the last part of the verse being yet future. Therefore, why do you say that other parts of prophecy cannot be fulfilled at different times?
I keep telling you that brethren, servants, fellow servants, saints, and martyrs are mentioned throughout Revelation AND THAT'S THE CHURCH, but you continue to call them "tribulation saints." I also keep telling you that when John used the word "church" it indicated a specific 1st century church in a specific area, NOT the church as a whole!
I also keep telling you that, "NOT being appointed to wrath" has nothing to do with a rapture, but all to do with SALVATION. That wrath is averted by Christ through repentance at judgment day! NOT A RAPYURE!
I also keep telling you that God has never removed anyone from their tribulations but saved them through them!
Just because you believe in pre-trib doesn't mean you're going to be raptured BEFORE tribulation. IF a rapture happens before it the most you can say to me is, "I told you so!" When the world goes bad and it doesn't, what are you going to do? Fabricate even more stuff to cover up your pre-trib fallacies?
I also keep telling you that, "NOT being appointed to wrath" has nothing to do with a rapture, but all to do with SALVATION. That wrath is averted by Christ through repentance at judgment day! NOT A RAPYURE!
I also keep telling you that God has never removed anyone from their tribulations but saved them through them!
Just because you believe in pre-trib doesn't mean you're going to be raptured BEFORE tribulation. IF a rapture happens before it the most you can say to me is, "I told you so!" When the world goes bad and it doesn't, what are you going to do? Fabricate even more stuff to cover up your pre-trib fallacies?
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You are trying to blend Gospel truth with Bible prophecies pertaining to Israel and the Antichrist. That simply does not work.
You can believe whatever you wish but all prophesies must harmonize and be fulfilled. I could refute everything you have said with Scripture, but your mind is already made up. And Allah has nothing to do with any of this.
You can believe whatever you wish but all prophesies must harmonize and be fulfilled. I could refute everything you have said with Scripture, but your mind is already made up. And Allah has nothing to do with any of this.
You've already been refuted, now put your best foot forward and lets see what you've got!
I use to believe in pre-trib, a global dictator, a one world government and religion, a temple needing rebuilding, but that was because I was listening to others who have a distorted view of eschatology.
I do my own homework, and I'm just showing the results and how I arrive at them.
I use to believe in pre-trib, a global dictator, a one world government and religion, a temple needing rebuilding, but that was because I was listening to others who have a distorted view of eschatology.
I do my own homework, and I'm just showing the results and how I arrive at them.
Because you are not recognizing the distinction being made. Throughout the NT, you are correct, the word church and saints are used interchangeably. It is the separation, use and abrupt disuse of the word "church" that should be a red flag and which you are not recognizing. If the word church and saints were used interchangeably throughout the entire book of Revelation, then I would be in agreement with you. It is because of the specific use of the word "church" only with the absence of the word "saints" within chapters 1 thru 3 and the disuse of the word "church" and the use of the word "saints" only, from chapter 4 onward that demonstrates that the church is no longer on the earth. Do you actually think that only the word church is going to be used and then magically never used again? The word "hagios" translated as "saints" beyond chapter 4 is not referring to the church, but to the great tribulation saints introduced in Rev.7:9-17. The very fact that the elder is asking John who they are tells you that they are not the church. These things are revealed and confirmed by the Spirit.
I don't believe that, because the letters are clearly not only to the literal churches of that time, but are to all believers throughout the entire church period. The letters represent the "what is now," i.e. the church period. As an example, there is information written that couldn't possibly be written to the churches of that time. For example, in the letter to the church of Philadelphia, Jesus said, "because you have kept the patience of my word, I will also keep you out of the hour of trial that is going to come upon the whole world to test those who dwell on the earth." That "hour of trial" is another designation for the time of God's wrath, which has not yet taken place. Therefore, since that literal church is now dead and gone, then it has to be speaking to that type of Philadelphia church just prior to when that "hour of trial" takes place.
I also keep telling you that, "NOT being appointed to wrath" has nothing to do with a rapture, but all to do with SALVATION. That wrath is averted by Christ through repentance at judgment day! NOT A RAPYURE!
And I keep telling you that this wrath that is coming is God's specific end of the age wrath which will be the fulfillment of the day of the Lord. Your example is irrelevant because God never had remove people from the earth. Noah and his family would not be removed from the earth because they had to repopulate it. The wrath that is coming will decimate the majority of the earths population and dismantle all human government. You sir do not have enough study in end-time events and have not recognized God's clues.
Actually, if that happened I could tell you a lot more that "I told you so!" I could you everything that was going to happen in chronological order, with Christ returning shortly after the 7th bowl is poured out. Neither myself nor the other true believers are going to be here, because the Lord is not going to put His bride through His wrath. Shame on you and those who believe like you for thinking that He would.
You are greatly mistaken! This is not a "I'm right and you're wrong" issue. This is one whom God has made knowledgeable regarding His word regarding these events and you who have read, listened to and adopted the teachings of men. I'm simply contending against you because you are wrong. Unfortunately, these events will have to take place just as I have taught them in order for you and others to finally get it.
'
I don't believe that, because the letters are clearly not only to the literal churches of that time, but are to all believers throughout the entire church period. The letters represent the "what is now," i.e. the church period. As an example, there is information written that couldn't possibly be written to the churches of that time. For example, in the letter to the church of Philadelphia, Jesus said, "because you have kept the patience of my word, I will also keep you out of the hour of trial that is going to come upon the whole world to test those who dwell on the earth." That "hour of trial" is another designation for the time of God's wrath, which has not yet taken place. Therefore, since that literal church is now dead and gone, then it has to be speaking to that type of Philadelphia church just prior to when that "hour of trial" takes place.
I also keep telling you that, "NOT being appointed to wrath" has nothing to do with a rapture, but all to do with SALVATION. That wrath is averted by Christ through repentance at judgment day! NOT A RAPYURE!
And I keep telling you that this wrath that is coming is God's specific end of the age wrath which will be the fulfillment of the day of the Lord. Your example is irrelevant because God never had remove people from the earth. Noah and his family would not be removed from the earth because they had to repopulate it. The wrath that is coming will decimate the majority of the earths population and dismantle all human government. You sir do not have enough study in end-time events and have not recognized God's clues.
Actually, if that happened I could tell you a lot more that "I told you so!" I could you everything that was going to happen in chronological order, with Christ returning shortly after the 7th bowl is poured out. Neither myself nor the other true believers are going to be here, because the Lord is not going to put His bride through His wrath. Shame on you and those who believe like you for thinking that He would.
You are greatly mistaken! This is not a "I'm right and you're wrong" issue. This is one whom God has made knowledgeable regarding His word regarding these events and you who have read, listened to and adopted the teachings of men. I'm simply contending against you because you are wrong. Unfortunately, these events will have to take place just as I have taught them in order for you and others to finally get it.
'
Teachings of men... of a man named Jesus...
Immediately after the tribulation of those days... then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven...and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Immediately after the tribulation of those days... then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven...and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Uh, that would be false! There is seven years of the seventy sevens that were decreed upon Israel and Jerusalem that must be fulfilled. Once the church has been gathered, God will pick up right where He left off in fulfillment of that last seven years complete with temple, sacrifices and offerings. And, the fact that Israel has prepared all of the furniture of the temple, the reconvening of the Sanhedrin, the priest's clothing and their learning how to sacrifice according to the law given to Moses, is very relevant. God has unfinished business with Israel, as well as promises to fulfill. Have you never read the following?
"As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies for your sake; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, for God’s gifts and his call are irrevocable. Just as you who were at one time disobedient to God have now received mercy as a result of their disobedience, so they too have now become disobedient in order that they too may now receive mercy as a result of God’s mercy to you. For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all."
"As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies for your sake; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, for God’s gifts and his call are irrevocable. Just as you who were at one time disobedient to God have now received mercy as a result of their disobedience, so they too have now become disobedient in order that they too may now receive mercy as a result of God’s mercy to you. For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all."
I'm always open to understanding the Word of God. Always willing to change my mind. However, pre-trib is an incredibly fabricated and contradictory doctrine of illiteracy. Christians should have the wherewithal to see through this deceitfully fabricated teaching. Pre-trib is a bad spirit. To name a few perversions...
You pervert the teachings of Jesus. He said the gathering of believers happens after the tribulation. You've perverted his words by changing the time and the meaning of the word elect. And you change WHO Mathew 24 was written to.
You've changed the meaning of the last trump to one from the festival of Jewish Trumpets!
You've changed the meaning of "the Day of the Lord to include the entire Tribulation period.
You've created another rapture and another return of Christ to cover up pre-trib contradictions.
You say Jesus will come back invisibly and only believers will see Him.
You say the Rapture will be instant and invisible.
You say the Church will not be here during the Tribulation.
You say II Thessalonians 2 says the Rapture will precede the antichrist.
You say the Rapture is not the Second Coming.
You say the Great Multitude that comes out of the Tribulation is not the Church.
You say the Mystery of God is not Christ and the Church.
You say the Church will not come under persecution by the Antichrist.
You say the Church will not be here when the mark of the beast is instituted.
WHERE DO THE PERVERSIONS END!
You pervert the teachings of Jesus. He said the gathering of believers happens after the tribulation. You've perverted his words by changing the time and the meaning of the word elect. And you change WHO Mathew 24 was written to.
You've changed the meaning of the last trump to one from the festival of Jewish Trumpets!
You've changed the meaning of "the Day of the Lord to include the entire Tribulation period.
You've created another rapture and another return of Christ to cover up pre-trib contradictions.
You say Jesus will come back invisibly and only believers will see Him.
You say the Rapture will be instant and invisible.
You say the Church will not be here during the Tribulation.
You say II Thessalonians 2 says the Rapture will precede the antichrist.
You say the Rapture is not the Second Coming.
You say the Great Multitude that comes out of the Tribulation is not the Church.
You say the Mystery of God is not Christ and the Church.
You say the Church will not come under persecution by the Antichrist.
You say the Church will not be here when the mark of the beast is instituted.
WHERE DO THE PERVERSIONS END!
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