Woe is mw I am undone

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homwardbound

homwardbound

Senior Member
#1
Oct 24, 2012
15,029
107
63
#1
Can we anyone of us be perfect in and of ourselves? We are called to perfect though yes?

WOE IS ME I AM UNDONE​
Philippians4:6 Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
6 Be carefulfor nothing; but in everything by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving letyour requests be made known unto God.
Philippians4:4 Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
4 Rejoice inthe Lord always: and again I say, Rejoice.
Philippians4:8 Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
8 Finally,brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoeverthings are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely,whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there beany praise, think on these things.
1 Peter 1:16Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
16 becauseit is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.
John 7:38 Authorized(King James) Version (AKJV)
38 He thatbelieveth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow riversof living water.
Philippians2:15 Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
15 that yemay be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst ofa crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;
Matthew16:24 Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
24 Then saidJesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself,and take up his cross, and follow me.
Luke 14:26 Authorized(King James) Version (AKJV)
26 If any man come to me, and hate not hisfather, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, andhis own life also, he cannot be my disciple.
Colossians3:1 Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
3 If ye thenbe risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sittethon the right hand of God.

So is this above enough to show us that no flesh can be perfect, yet are we nit to be perfect as our heavenly Father is?
Enough. We dare go no further. It would only increase Our shame, and our pain. We stand indicted. We are not "What Christ would have us to be. If this is the measure of the Christian life, if this is the basis upon which we are to be judged, if this is what God requires of us as Christians, like Isaiah we cry: "Woe is me, for I am undone."
Why does not the Savior, so tender and so understanding, so loving and so wise, not make requirements more in keeping with human nature? Why does He seem to be so unreasonable? Why does He not demand of us what we might reasonably attain? He bids us soar, yet we have no wings. Talk about the super-man; it is not so much a mere overabundance of man that is required. It seems to be rather man-deified, if I may so speak, which the New Testament pronounces as the true type of Christian. Why does the Savior go so far beyond the merely natural, and put Christian living on the basis of the supernatural? I protest, it is not natural to love our enemies; it is not natural to rejoice always; it is not natural to be thankful for the things that hurt; it is not natural to hate ourselves; it is not natural to walk as Jesus walked. Have we honestly faced this dilemma? Have we had the courage to face the implications of Christ's Word? Is anything gained by subterfuges, by pretending that the gulf between the humanly possible, and the law of Christ (i.e. what we can attain by nature and what God requires in His Word) is after all not so great?


So is there a satisfactory answer anyone?
 
JaumeJ

JaumeJ

Senior Member
#2
Jul 2, 2011
21,236
6,530
113
#2
Perhaps some of the anwer is in the following verses:



Rom 4:6
 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

Rom 4:7
 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.

Rom 4:8
 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.


Rom 4:9
 Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.

I also thought of the following from Psalms:

Psa 116:13
 I will take the cup of salvation, and call upon the name of the LORD.

 
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RedTent

RedTent

Banned
#3
Oct 31, 2011
8,200
182
0
#3
It is an age old question. How does the spiritual world and the physical world relate to each other. The Gnostics said that only the spiritual world is real, only that counted. All flesh is evil. God said that is not right, that He created the world and it is good.

Especially in the OT, we are shown the way that the two worlds relate to each other. The OT taught about God principles mainly through illustrations of that in the physical world. So often that didn't work, man said if the physical world was operated correctly it meant the spiritual world did, too. God said that wasn't so. You could work in the physical world without including Him in your reasons to work, without giving Him credit and it would mean nothing.

After Christ, our scriptures point that out over and over. We must follow the HS, it says. So man has decided that the HS counts and the physical world doesn't. They pull out every scripture about what the HS does for us. Anything that tells of the written law needing to be read with an understanding of love as its basis is trotted out.

To help with this, the bible talks of those who follow only the physical without including the spiritual as fleshly. Ah Hah, they say, see everything God created of this world is "fleshly" we are not to have anything to do with it. The written law is, they say, of this world so out with it.

That is not scriptural. Scripture uses many physical things as symbols of the spiritual. Blood, food, kneeling, wind, numbers, many things. When we separate them we are not obeying scripture, if we separate doing from the spiritual or the spiritual from doing. While we live in this body, they are connected and cannot be separated by humans.

So when we are told to soar, to walk with Christ, to forgive enemies, to be perfect, God means for us to actually strive towards that. In our human bodies. We ARE to listen to God's law for our physical self. We are also to listen to the understanding we are given through the Holy Spirit. One enhances the other, but one can not be without the other.
 
iamsoandso

iamsoandso

Senior Member
#4
Oct 6, 2011
7,857
1,565
113
#4
yes indeed they see "wars and rumors of wars and earthquakes in divers places,,,ect.",,,but they do not see an "s",,at the end of the words he spoke,,,,,,,
 
phil36

phil36

Senior Member
#5
Feb 12, 2009
8,260
2,111
113
51
#5
RedTent said:
It is an age old question. How does the spiritual world and the physical world relate to each other. The Gnostics said that only the spiritual world is real, only that counted. All flesh is evil. God said that is not right, that He created the world and it is good.

Especially in the OT, we are shown the way that the two worlds relate to each other. The OT taught about God principles mainly through illustrations of that in the physical world. So often that didn't work, man said if the physical world was operated correctly it meant the spiritual world did, too. God said that wasn't so. You could work in the physical world without including Him in your reasons to work, without giving Him credit and it would mean nothing.

After Christ, our scriptures point that out over and over. We must follow the HS, it says. So man has decided that the HS counts and the physical world doesn't. They pull out every scripture about what the HS does for us. Anything that tells of the written law needing to be read with an understanding of love as its basis is trotted out.

To help with this, the bible talks of those who follow only the physical without including the spiritual as fleshly. Ah Hah, they say, see everything God created of this world is "fleshly" we are not to have anything to do with it. The written law is, they say, of this world so out with it.

That is not scriptural. Scripture uses many physical things as symbols of the spiritual. Blood, food, kneeling, wind, numbers, many things. When we separate them we are not obeying scripture, if we separate doing from the spiritual or the spiritual from doing. While we live in this body, they are connected and cannot be separated by humans.

So when we are told to soar, to walk with Christ, to forgive enemies, to be perfect, God means for us to actually strive towards that. In our human bodies. We ARE to listen to God's law for our physical self. We are also to listen to the understanding we are given through the Holy Spirit. One enhances the other, but one can not be without the other.
Click to expand...



Very well thought out and written redtent and a worthy read :)
 
homwardbound

homwardbound

Senior Member
#6
Oct 24, 2012
15,029
107
63
#6
JaumeJ said:
Perhaps some of the anwer is in the following verses:



Rom 4:6
 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

Rom 4:7
 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.

Rom 4:8
 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.


Rom 4:9
 Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.

I also thought of the following from Psalms:

Psa 116:13
 I will take the cup of salvation, and call upon the name of the LORD.
Click to expand...
Wow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and thank you brother
 
homwardbound

homwardbound

Senior Member
#7
Oct 24, 2012
15,029
107
63
#7
RedTent said:
It is an age old question. How does the spiritual world and the physical world relate to each other. The Gnostics said that only the spiritual world is real, only that counted. All flesh is evil. God said that is not right, that He created the world and it is good.

Especially in the OT, we are shown the way that the two worlds relate to each other. The OT taught about God principles mainly through illustrations of that in the physical world. So often that didn't work, man said if the physical world was operated correctly it meant the spiritual world did, too. God said that wasn't so. You could work in the physical world without including Him in your reasons to work, without giving Him credit and it would mean nothing.

After Christ, our scriptures point that out over and over. We must follow the HS, it says. So man has decided that the HS counts and the physical world doesn't. They pull out every scripture about what the HS does for us. Anything that tells of the written law needing to be read with an understanding of love as its basis is trotted out.

To help with this, the bible talks of those who follow only the physical without including the spiritual as fleshly. Ah Hah, they say, see everything God created of this world is "fleshly" we are not to have anything to do with it. The written law is, they say, of this world so out with it.

That is not scriptural. Scripture uses many physical things as symbols of the spiritual. Blood, food, kneeling, wind, numbers, many things. When we separate them we are not obeying scripture, if we separate doing from the spiritual or the spiritual from doing. While we live in this body, they are connected and cannot be separated by humans.

So when we are told to soar, to walk with Christ, to forgive enemies, to be perfect, God means for us to actually strive towards that. In our human bodies. We ARE to listen to God's law for our physical self. We are also to listen to the understanding we are given through the Holy Spirit. One enhances the other, but one can not be without the other.
Click to expand...
Then please tell me why Paul says to put no confidence in the flesh?
2 Corinthians 10:2 but I beseech you, that I may not be bold when I am present with that confidence, wherewith I think to be bold against some, which think of us as if we walked according to the flesh.
Philippians 3:3
For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.

And why Christ brought out a distinct difference of Spirit and flesh
John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

And if we are to try as you said co mixing the flesh and Spirit, then why is all sin:

[h=3]Romans 8:3[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)


[SUP]3 [/SUP]For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

So I see if I am going to mix the two as you said to do, then I am still controlled by sin since I am alive to sin by being alive to flesh.
So then why did Paul wrote this, if we are to mix the two, flesh and Spirit?


  1. Romans 6:2
    God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
  2. Romans 6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
  3. Ephesians 2:5 even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)
  4. Colossians 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
  5. 1 Peter 2:24 who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.
 
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