women as church leaders and teachers

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SparkleEyes

Senior Member
#1
Mar 23, 2013
771
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#1
Hi. Here are a couple of questions. You can answer one or all. While I cannot prevent you from doing so, I do ask you keep your answers fairly short..not going on and on and on......


  • Would you (or do you currently) attend a church that has women as a pastor, even as an assistant pastor?
  • If you think it is not appropriate, can a man effectively lead an adult women's ministry?
  • Should a woman lead a class or teach adults in any capacity?
  • How high should a women be allowed to go in church leadership?
  • How much decision making ability should a woman have in a church?

Thanks! :cool:
 
K

kenisyes

Guest
#2
#2
Leadership goes with call and ability, not with gender. The only exception is that a group composed on purpose as a share group or personal growth group of men or women only, should be led by a person of that sex. So I have no problems with women pastors, teachers, board members, etc.
 
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starfield

Senior Member
#3
Jun 13, 2009
3,393
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#3
Instead of pastoring a church, women can use their talents for God in other ways within a church as they belong to the body of Christ.
 
Dude653

Dude653

Senior Member
#4
Mar 19, 2011
12,312
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#4
I'm undecided on the women pastor thing, however i have no problem with a woman teaching. I know everybody os gonna start quoting Paul here, but Paul's letters are taken out of their context
 
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Kate913

Guest
#5
#5
Scripture makes it clear that a woman is not permitted to have authority over a man. That is not taken out of context that is what it says. Women can teach women, but out of respect and honor for authority they are not to teach men. Yes, God has used women to teach men, but only because there were no Godly men willing to be used by God at that time. It is to mans shame when God uses a women to teach Him, because scripture makes it clear that man is the head of woman. It is not meant to be the other way around. Let the word speak for itself....
1 Corinthians 11:3
But I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.
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1 Timothy 2:12-13
12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve.
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loveme1

Senior Member
#6
Oct 30, 2011
8,083
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#6
What do you make of this?

2 John 1

The elder unto the elect lady and her children, whom I love in the truth; and not I only, but also all they that have known the truth;
[SUP]2 [/SUP]For the truth's sake, which dwelleth in us, and shall be with us for ever.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Grace be with you, mercy, and peace, from God the Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of the Father, in truth and love.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]I rejoiced greatly that I found of thy children walking in truth, as we have received a commandment from the Father.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And now I beseech thee, lady, not as though I wrote a new commandment unto thee, but that which we had from the beginning, that we love one another.
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crossnote

crossnote

Senior Member
#7
Nov 24, 2012
30,707
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#7
Interesting so far the men are for it and the women are against pastorship by women...I guess women know women best :rolleyes:
 
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Kate913

Guest
#8
#8
loveme1 said:
What do you make of this?

2 John 1
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I guess you were asking me?
And if so, I do not know what you exactly you are asking.
The Elder is writing this to the elect (chosen) lady and her children.
 
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loveme1

Senior Member
#9
Oct 30, 2011
8,083
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#9
Kate913 said:
I guess you were asking me?
And if so, I do not know what you exactly you are asking.
The Elder is writing this to the elect (chosen) lady and her children.
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It was an open to all...

i find it interesting myself.

Something to consider on the female matter.
 
D

danschance

Guest
#10
#10
Would you (or do you currently) attend a church that has women as a pastor, even as an assistant pastor?
No and in general I would be likely to attend a church with a female Sr, Pastor.

If you think it is not appropriate, can a man effectively lead an adult women's ministry?
A man can lead a Woman's Ministry but it seems awkward to me and may not be scriptural. The bible says to let older women teach younger women.

Should a woman lead a class or teach adults in any capacity?
Certainly. Women are not less capable than men simply by virtue of their gender.

How high should a women be allowed to go in church leadership?
Deborah was a Prophet and a Judge. She held the highest office in Israel and dealt almost exclusively with men. She clearly had the respect and confidence of Barrack, a military leader. So I see no ceiling for women in the religious government, just because they are female. However, Deborah was the only female leader of Israel. That makes her an exception not the rule.

I still see male leadership as being preferential but not the dogmatic exclusion of women. God holds husbands as leaders in their own household. Priests in the temple were all male. So one would expect that most religous organizations would be run by men.

How much decision making ability should a woman have in a church?
The last church I was in women could hold any office, though I am not sure if they can be senior pastor. The denomination was founded by a woman. Their was a female pastor in charge of Women's Ministry, a female counselor Women Sunday School and Preschool teachers and women elders.
 
Cobus

Cobus

Banned
#11
Feb 17, 2010
3,620
27
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#11
loveme1 said:
What do you make of this?

2 John 1
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Loveme1, the ELDER is the head of the ELECT lady... It is the direct COMMAND of God that elders in the church becomes the "priest" of the orphans and widows. It is their pure and undefiled religion to visit the fatherless and widows... James 1:27.

Every woman with children will have a man APPOINTED by God to be the PRIEST of the children and her. God just works that way. The ones that have father's do not need an elder... they have a MAN that can TEACH AT HOME... and the ones that does not have a father, God will appoint an elder... ONE APT TO TEACH! 1 Tim 3.

God's Church opperates as perfectly today as it has ALWAYS opperated, the SAME HEAD is still the HEAD and HE does not change... In 1 Cor 14 He was the head with the "rules" MANNER of operation, and He is still the EXACT same head and rules today.... He works PERFECT and only MEN are appointed as officebearers... Read 1 Tim 3.... The husband of ONE wife... ALL of them... HUSBANDS!!! MEN... 1 Cor 14... BRETHREN.... not Brethren and ladies or siters.. only BRETHREN!!!!

And if you are reckoned to be spiritual or prophet,, you will know these are COMMANDS OF GOD....

If you want to be ignorent, be ignorant... Nothing I can do about that.
 
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danschance

Guest
#12
#12
Errata..

Please note I left off the NOT from my first answer above. So it should read:

"Would you (or do you currently) attend a church that has women as a pastor, even as an assistant pastor?
No and in general I would NOT be likely to attend a church with a female Sr, Pastor.
 
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loveme1

Senior Member
#13
Oct 30, 2011
8,083
190
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#13
Cobus said:
Loveme1, the ELDER is the head of the ELECT lady... It is the direct COMMAND of God that elders in the church becomes the "priest" of the orphans and widows. It is their pure and undefiled religion to visit the fatherless and widows... James 1:27.

Every woman with children will have a man APPOINTED by God to be the PRIEST of the children and her. God just works that way. The ones that have father's do not need an elder... they have a MAN that can TEACH AT HOME... and the ones that does not have a father, God will appoint an elder... ONE APT TO TEACH! 1 Tim 3.

God's Church opperates as perfectly today as it has ALWAYS opperated, the SAME HEAD is still the HEAD and HE does not change... In 1 Cor 14 He was the head with the "rules" MANNER of operation, and He is still the EXACT same head and rules today.... He works PERFECT and only MEN are appointed as officebearers... Read 1 Tim 3.... The husband of ONE wife... ALL of them... HUSBANDS!!! MEN... 1 Cor 14... BRETHREN.... not Brethren and ladies or siters.. only BRETHREN!!!!

And if you are reckoned to be spiritual or prophet,, you will know these are COMMANDS OF GOD....

If you want to be ignorent, be ignorant... Nothing I can do about that.
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From the Elder to the Elect lady and it is so that He proceeds to Teach Her within the letter.
 
K

kenisyes

Guest
#14
#14
loveme1 said:
What do you make of this?

2 John 1
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I have seen people go so far as to state that the term "lady" is a symbolic name for a church, so as to avoid a suggestion that a woman might be in charge, even of a family, in spiritual matters. This is not possible, as the word "thy" is singular (it shows in Greek) in vs. 4, whereas the word "you" in verse 3, is plural. It is clearly to at least a family following God together, undert he headship of a woman.

However, as I have stated several times in other threads, the woman is not called a woman, but a directoress (unless Lady - Kuria is her given name). It is a standard principle of the NT, that a woman in authority is never called a woman. This is because the Greek word implies a woman performing a role as a sex partner, which the English word does not. This is the cause of most of the confusion on this issue.
 
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loveme1

Senior Member
#15
Oct 30, 2011
8,083
190
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#15
kenisyes said:
I have seen people go so far as to state that the term "lady" is a symbolic name for a church, so as to avoid a suggestion that a woman might be in charge, even of a family, in spiritual matters. This is not possible, as the word "thy" is singular (it shows in Greek) in vs. 4, whereas the word "you" in verse 3, is plural. It is clearly to at least a family following God together, undert he headship of a woman.

However, as I have stated several times in other threads, the woman is not called a woman, but a directoress (unless Lady - Kuria is her given name). It is a standard principle of the NT, that a woman in authority is never called a woman. This is because the Greek word implies a woman performing a role as a sex partner, which the English word does not. This is the cause of most of the confusion on this issue.
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You see i'm most certainly a Man then woman type since reading that we were made from man to be a partner :)

This topic seems to come up often and the other day i noticed this letter (not for the first time) and it had me consider and i wanted some input.

You certainly put a different prospective also..

It may be something that i'm about to receive understanding, time will prove all things.
 
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kenisyes

Guest
#16
#16
loveme1 said:
You see i'm most certainly a Man then woman type since reading that we were made from man to be a partner :)

This topic seems to come up often and the other day i noticed this letter (not for the first time) and it had me consider and i wanted some input.

You certainly put a different prospective also..

It may be something that i'm about to receive understanding, time will prove all things.
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Any woman called to lead must deal with the crisis created by this pervasive church belief. It is no worse than being an apostle or a prophet to a church that does not believe in those things exisiting today (and there are many). If you just go do the work, and don't claim a title, it works out fine, even if you suffer persecution in the process. God gets the glory and you get the blessing of being part of His unfolding future. Most people are too busy reinforcing their doctrinal walls, to notice that God is doing something they think He can't do.
 
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SparkleEyes

Senior Member
#17
Mar 23, 2013
771
21
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#17
OPer here - Thank you all for your thoughtful posts. Keep 'em coming! :cool:
 
K

kenisyes

Guest
#18
#18
SparkleEyes said:
Keep 'em coming! :cool:
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If you wouldn't have said that, I would not have posted this: So do you feel like you are called to a ministry that some people don't agree a woman should have?
 
JaumeJ

JaumeJ

Senior Member
#19
Jul 2, 2011
21,236
6,530
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#19
The same as I posted on suicide, I will post here. It is apparant the very same folks who say the Law is dead or abolished are the very same ones who, because in Paul's time, women in any authority were frowned upon, have made their own law, without consulting Yahweh, barring women from serving Yeshua. These are the same folks who say a suicide is unforgiveable because it is killing, one of the laws and one of the Ten Commandments. Damned if you do not, damned if you do. God is not yay and nay; He is always Yay! Praise God, He is worthy, not one of us, amen.
 
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SparkleEyes

Senior Member
#20
Mar 23, 2013
771
21
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#20
kenisyes said:
If you wouldn't have said that, I would not have posted this: So do you feel like you are called to a ministry that some people don't agree a woman should have?
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Hi kenisyes - No I don't feel I am called to a ministry traditionally allowed to men only. In some areas of my life I am conservative, but in others I like to push the envelope. I like to do things that are not considered traditionally female/feminine and I try to encourage other women to stretch as well. And men to realize that just because women used to refrain from what was expected of them, doesn't mean they should continue to have that mindset.

I do run across people who are adamant that women should not be pastors or act in that role, which to some that means they cannot teach - especially to men. Just as marriage is (should be) a true partnership, with one leader, the church also cannot function effectively without the talents and efforts of both genders.

Full disclosure: I go to a non-denom church that currently has 2 women in pastor positions (women's and senior). We also have women who lead groups within our ministry hubs. Women lead classes, teach and speak, even in front of large groups. Over the years, we have even had several weekend services in which the message was delivered by a woman. We are not a radical left wing church. We are quite conservative and quite evangelical - full baptisms; baby dedications, not baptisms; large mission support; many home schooled children.

:cool:
 
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