Women should not be allowed to preach in church
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Agreed but that doesn't mean Adam heard the conversation between the serpent and Eve. The narrative is silent on every little detail so it safe to assume God has given us what information we need to know about the story. Eve was deceived by the serpent (her own confession), and Adam listened to his wife instead of obeying the commandment of God (God said that).
So to answer this we cant just look at one verse we have to look at multiple verses to see if they contradict one another and if they do we are not interpreting these verses correctly as God does not contradict himself.
First up we have 1 Timothy 2:11-15
Second we have 1 Corinthians 14:34-35
These are the two primary verse one need to look at to answer this question.
So in the first verse which is in the book of Timothy to paraphrase it it basically says a woman must
learn in silence with all subjection
Woman cannot teach nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
The reason God is doing this is because of Eve's transgression in the Garden for it says and i quote here
"For Adam was first formed, then Eve."
"And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression."
and the final verse says a woman will bear a child and live if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.
So the second set of verses comes from the book of Corinthians.
These two verses are very straight forward and easy to understand here they are,
"Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. "
"And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church."
So there you have it folks the answer is no to this questions, woman who are true born again Christians will respect this command from god for Jesus said if you love me you will keep my commandment and this is a command. Now don't get discouraged because of this keep in mind it's Eve's fault this is happening to female Christians it's not that God thinks you a lower life form than a man but you are simply being punished for Eve's transgression as the scripture clearly states.
First up we have 1 Timothy 2:11-15
Second we have 1 Corinthians 14:34-35
These are the two primary verse one need to look at to answer this question.
So in the first verse which is in the book of Timothy to paraphrase it it basically says a woman must
learn in silence with all subjection
Woman cannot teach nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
The reason God is doing this is because of Eve's transgression in the Garden for it says and i quote here
"For Adam was first formed, then Eve."
"And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression."
and the final verse says a woman will bear a child and live if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.
So the second set of verses comes from the book of Corinthians.
These two verses are very straight forward and easy to understand here they are,
"Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. "
"And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church."
So there you have it folks the answer is no to this questions, woman who are true born again Christians will respect this command from god for Jesus said if you love me you will keep my commandment and this is a command. Now don't get discouraged because of this keep in mind it's Eve's fault this is happening to female Christians it's not that God thinks you a lower life form than a man but you are simply being punished for Eve's transgression as the scripture clearly states.
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... and yet you brought up the argument that Adam "listened to his wife". The only words recorded as spoken by Eve are in verses 2 and 3. You are inventing an unrecorded conversation to support your position. I don't think you understand what an argument from silence is. You're welcome to prove me wrong, but so far, you're failing miserably.
Tell me, are you absolutely certain that "for" means "because" in this instance? Have you studied the Greek of this passage? Have you studied the cultural, religious and linguistic contexts of this passage? Is it possible that Paul is addressing a situation that hasn't occurred to you?
Tell this to the next Christian couple you meet who are unable to have children.
Are you certain about that? Have you sacrificed effort to study deeply because you think the surface text is crystal-clear?
Please quote the verse(s) from the Law that says women must be silent. Oh... you can't find them? Then perhaps this verse is not as clear as you think.
You are inferring a punishment not delineated in Genesis 3. Consider that what God said to Eve, "Your desire shall be for your husband, and he shall rule over you" is not a punishment, but a statement of certain consequence. Misogyny, abuse of females, and patriarchal attitudes are a perfect fulfillment of this statement. Christians (women included!) are freed from the punishments of sin through the death of Jesus. If you believe that women are not freed from all sin, for which other sins did Jesus' death not atone?
Tell this to the next Christian couple you meet who are unable to have children.
Are you certain about that? Have you sacrificed effort to study deeply because you think the surface text is crystal-clear?
Please quote the verse(s) from the Law that says women must be silent. Oh... you can't find them? Then perhaps this verse is not as clear as you think.
You are inferring a punishment not delineated in Genesis 3. Consider that what God said to Eve, "Your desire shall be for your husband, and he shall rule over you" is not a punishment, but a statement of certain consequence. Misogyny, abuse of females, and patriarchal attitudes are a perfect fulfillment of this statement. Christians (women included!) are freed from the punishments of sin through the death of Jesus. If you believe that women are not freed from all sin, for which other sins did Jesus' death not atone?
It is sad to see that very few see the obvious.
Eve ate & gave to Adam who was beside her. True.
Someone said Adam would have done something if he heard what the serpent said. That's possible.
Then someone said Adam wasn't there when the deception took place. Partly true. Adam wasn't there when the deception began.
What no one seems to consider is where the serpent was when it happened.
In order for Adam to be with Eve when the sin happened, yet not hear the serpent's words, the only way that could happen is if the serpent was gone when it happened.
Eve didn't eat until after the conversation, but when after the conversation? Immediately? An hour later? A day later?
Eve's sin was conceived in her heart, but the action of the sin was later.
The Bible doesn't say the temptation was at the tree. Eve and Adam could have walked there later.
Sorry to say, but there's not enough information to prove where everyone was from the beginning to end. Most conclusions are eisegesis.
Eve ate & gave to Adam who was beside her. True.
Someone said Adam would have done something if he heard what the serpent said. That's possible.
Then someone said Adam wasn't there when the deception took place. Partly true. Adam wasn't there when the deception began.
What no one seems to consider is where the serpent was when it happened.
In order for Adam to be with Eve when the sin happened, yet not hear the serpent's words, the only way that could happen is if the serpent was gone when it happened.
Eve didn't eat until after the conversation, but when after the conversation? Immediately? An hour later? A day later?
Eve's sin was conceived in her heart, but the action of the sin was later.
The Bible doesn't say the temptation was at the tree. Eve and Adam could have walked there later.
Sorry to say, but there's not enough information to prove where everyone was from the beginning to end. Most conclusions are eisegesis.
Genesis 3:16 "To the woman he said, 'I will make your pains in childbearing very severe; with painful labor you will give birth to children. Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you."
Paul's words are not clear because there is no clear law stating that women must be silent.
If Paul refers to Genesis 3:16 as a command, then why does the first part of it merely state what "will" happen (painful childbirth)? Are women commanded to have painful childbirth, or is that a statement of certain consequence? Are women who opt for epidural anaesthetic transgressing the "commandment" to have painful childbirth? Really? Give your head a shake, man.
And why does it only mention "your husband" if it applies to all women at all times?
At best, this verse speaks to wives, not to women in general. It cannot legitimately be applied to unmarried women, nor to every man having authority over every woman.
Further, consider this: Why would God, Who is loving, just, and righteous, put now-sinful man in authority over women? Were males somehow less sinful than females? I don't think so. The legacy of violence toward and oppression of women by men testifies to this being a consequence, not a statement of God's desire or intention. If it were God's command that men rule over women, then the more overbearing and restrictive a man is, the more he is fulfilling the "commandment". Is that really your view? I hope not.
Paul's words are not clear because there is no clear law stating that women must be silent.
If Paul refers to Genesis 3:16 as a command, then why does the first part of it merely state what "will" happen (painful childbirth)? Are women commanded to have painful childbirth, or is that a statement of certain consequence? Are women who opt for epidural anaesthetic transgressing the "commandment" to have painful childbirth? Really? Give your head a shake, man.
And why does it only mention "your husband" if it applies to all women at all times?
At best, this verse speaks to wives, not to women in general. It cannot legitimately be applied to unmarried women, nor to every man having authority over every woman.
Further, consider this: Why would God, Who is loving, just, and righteous, put now-sinful man in authority over women? Were males somehow less sinful than females? I don't think so. The legacy of violence toward and oppression of women by men testifies to this being a consequence, not a statement of God's desire or intention. If it were God's command that men rule over women, then the more overbearing and restrictive a man is, the more he is fulfilling the "commandment". Is that really your view? I hope not.
Well, its an old debate, but for those who dont agree with the fact that woman should not teach man ore should be a pastor will find arguments for defend there view.If you simply trust in gods word and read the text as it is, you can only come to the conclusion that woman should not teach and should not be a pastor.
This has nothing to do to be able for that ore not, ore that woman are less worth then man. Its simply gods will.
Now you can stone me.
This has nothing to do to be able for that ore not, ore that woman are less worth then man. Its simply gods will.
Now you can stone me.
What does your argument gain in terms of women to being allowed teach? If Adam overheard the words "thou shalt not surely die" and ate of the fruit he and Eve would have both been deceived because they both listened to the serpent. Your argument fails because nowhere is it recorded that Eve told Adam to eat the fruit. If was the conversation between the woman and the serpent that Adam heard, then it would have been the words of the serpent that convinced Adam to eat the fruit and the Bible clearly states that Adam was not deceived. Somehow you want Adam to have been convinced by the serpent and not been deceived. It is a contradiction.
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It does not matter what the naysayers would like Scripture to say.
The Bible -- the Word of God -- plainly states that women are barred from preaching, teaching, or usurping authority within the local church BECAUSE Eve was deceived, not Adam.
That is a Divine ruling and judgment, and those who rebel against it are rebelling against God. And the Bible also says that rebellion is "as the sin of witchcraft" and "stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry" (1 Sam 15:23).
This ruling does NOT prevent Christian women from serving the Lord in a multitude of other ways. But just as Eve had to partake of the forbidden fruit, some women wish to partake of this forbidden fruit. Replicating Eve all over again.
The Bible -- the Word of God -- plainly states that women are barred from preaching, teaching, or usurping authority within the local church BECAUSE Eve was deceived, not Adam.
That is a Divine ruling and judgment, and those who rebel against it are rebelling against God. And the Bible also says that rebellion is "as the sin of witchcraft" and "stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry" (1 Sam 15:23).
This ruling does NOT prevent Christian women from serving the Lord in a multitude of other ways. But just as Eve had to partake of the forbidden fruit, some women wish to partake of this forbidden fruit. Replicating Eve all over again.
Paul is referring to the second part of the verse, and there were no chapter and verses in Scripture when Paul wrote his epistle so you need to rightly divide the scriptures (aren't you a vocal opponent against the inspiration of the chapter and verses in the King James Only threads?). You are grasping for straws bringing drugs and modern medicine into the discussion. God gave ten commandments and they are broken on a regular basis so we should conclude that He did not give the commandments in the law?
New International Version
Greet Andronicus and Junia, my fellow Jews who have been in prison with me. They are outstanding among the apostles, and they were in Christ before I was.
New Living Translation
Greet Andronicus and Junia, my fellow Jews, who were in prison with me. They are highly respected among the apostles and became followers of Christ before I did.
English Standard Version
Greet Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen and my fellow prisoners. They are well known to the apostles, and they were in Christ before me.
Some say Junia was an apostle, and well known among them.
Doesn't matter to me. The truth is no christian woman was imprisoned unless they preached or taught. So there you have it.
Greet Andronicus and Junia, my fellow Jews who have been in prison with me. They are outstanding among the apostles, and they were in Christ before I was.
New Living Translation
Greet Andronicus and Junia, my fellow Jews, who were in prison with me. They are highly respected among the apostles and became followers of Christ before I did.
English Standard Version
Greet Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen and my fellow prisoners. They are well known to the apostles, and they were in Christ before me.
Some say Junia was an apostle, and well known among them.
Doesn't matter to me. The truth is no christian woman was imprisoned unless they preached or taught. So there you have it.
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