Word of faith - confession doctrine - prosperity doctrine

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Sep 3, 2016
6,337
527
113
#1
Does a Christian have the power to speak something into existence?

The Word of Faith doctrine believe that Jesus Christ went to hell to suffer. KCM say that demons beat Jesus up in hell and God the Father said, “that is enough.”

What is your biblical view?
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
May 19, 2020
7,685
2,492
113
#2
Does a Christian have the power to speak something into existence?

The Word of Faith doctrine believe that Jesus Christ went to hell to suffer. KCM say that demons beat Jesus up in hell and God the Father said, “that is enough.”

What is your biblical view?


Even If You Lost Your Job Because Of Coronavirus, Don’t Stop Paying Tithes – Televangelist, Kenneth Copeland
News
March 20, 2020
 
Jun 11, 2020
1,370
424
83
73
#3
Does a Christian have the power to speak something into existence?

The Word of Faith doctrine believe that Jesus Christ went to hell to suffer. KCM say that demons beat Jesus up in hell and God the Father said, “that is enough.”

What is your biblical view?
No. Something not in existence must created. The Hebrew word is "bara". It needs a CREATOR. Something that is made out of existing materials is "asah" in the Hebrew. There is only One who can make something out of nothing - except maybe the proponents of the prosperity gospel. They make a doctrine out of nothing.

Our Lord Jesus went to HADES (Act.2:27, 31). There, He was in PARADISE, as He promised on the cross. Hades is for the SOULS of dead men. Demons are SPIRITS which live in the sea unless a body has let them in (Mk.5:13). At the White Throne the sea gives them up for judgment. In Revelation 20:13 the word "and" makes the dead of the sea different to the dead of Hades. The conjunction "and" is cumulative, copulative and sequential. "The bread and the butter:" - two things. That is, demons can NEVER go to Hades.
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
19,215
2,551
113
#4

Even If You Lost Your Job Because Of Coronavirus, Don’t Stop Paying Tithes – Televangelist, Kenneth Copeland
News
March 20, 2020
This guy does not have a good look on his face is he ok? Now as for the wof I have no clue how anyone can somehow belive this absolute bull about Jesus suffering in hell but speaking things into existance? There is nothing new to speak into existance but from my understanding of the wof is that they believe we have the authority and power with the holy spirit such as bringing forth healing or having incredible faith to walk in his power in all aspects of our life even bringing wealth.

Now I think this can be true to a point, I do believe we can walk in his power I do believe we can indeed have the faith to bring forth blessings but not for selfish reasons. If we ask for healing and trust God to recieve it is that not faith in action? if we are in dire need of finincial help and are afraid we will lose eveything and our families will live on the streets if we ask for his help and trust in him does he not grant us all our needs more than the birds of the air?

I think having the kind of faith to do these things is amazing I have never been able to have that kind of faith I cannot ask for healing and recieve it I cannot ask for others to be healed and they are healed but I do believe in it Jesus showed us a perfect example with the baskets of fish and bread didn't he? Not to mention the coin that he got from the fish as well however when you go to far into this wof propserity thing you lose the focus of it's intended porpuses and the teachings of most of them are not correct

God does bless those who believe and trust but with a selfish motive how can he bless you?
 
Sep 3, 2016
6,337
527
113
#5
If a Christian keep their mouth shut how do we take authority over Satan and his henchmen - also sickness & disease? Is Christian not suppose to prophecy?
 
Sep 3, 2016
6,337
527
113
#6
If a Christian keep their mouth shut how do we take authority over Satan and his henchmen - also sickness & disease? Is Christian not suppose to prophecy?
Meant to spell prophesy.

God is a Big God - so why ask small?
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
2,424
113
#8
Does a Christian have the power to speak something into existence?

The Word of Faith doctrine believe that Jesus Christ went to hell to suffer. KCM say that demons beat Jesus up in hell and God the Father said, “that is enough.”

What is your biblical view?
As for the question of the power we have as a Christian, it does not make us Gods, only God can speak something into existence.

Our natural state as humans is that we are born in sin and that sin causes our death. Being a Christian means we can give our sin to Christ and through the supernatural giving of blood on the altar we are forgiven and can have eternal life.

We can choose to receive the Holy Spirit that gives us such as a power to understand the words of the Lord but it does not give us power to speak material things into existence.
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
19,215
2,551
113
#11
If a Christian keep their mouth shut how do we take authority over Satan and his henchmen - also sickness & disease? Is Christian not suppose to prophecy?
Yes but we have to remember that God bends us to his will not the other way around. If anyone wants to do this I say go for it but also remember that we are all gifted in different areas I am the intersession type if I pray for healing then there is no flow in prayer but when God places on my heart the burdens and hurting of others I am overcome with such inner pain that they are feeling as if I can feel everything they are going through inside and beg Father tpo go to them this is where the power of the spirit is for me

For others they could pray for healing and miracles others still are called to pray over the church itself the point is God uses all of us in different areas
 
Jun 11, 2020
1,370
424
83
73
#12
If a Christian keep their mouth shut how do we take authority over Satan and his henchmen - also sickness & disease? Is Christian not suppose to prophecy?
Just to be clear what we are discussing, can you give the scriptures for taking authority over Satan. Thanks

According to 1st Corinthians 14:3 all Christians are encouraged to prophesy. It is defined there too. And, a saint who prohesies, speaks, "... edification and exhortation and comfort to men." I can't quite see the connection to sickness, disease, and authority over Satan.
 
P

pottersclay

Guest
#13
If a Christian keep their mouth shut how do we take authority over Satan and his henchmen - also sickness & disease? Is Christian not suppose to prophecy?
Ok here's the lie right in your question, we have no authority over Satan. We have a means of escape, we are hedged around for protection, if our spiritual house is full he cannot enter. For even Michael the arc angel said the Lord rebuke you.
Casting out demons is not a power we have but a authority that's been given to Christ which he shares with us. For lack of a better example we've been deputized. For even demons were cast out by those that Jesus did not know but used his name.
If God allowed us to do what we saw fit there would be so much chaos you couldn't imagine.
It is by the will of God led by the Holy Spirit of God that Devine intervention is done through the authority that was given to Jesus which he has shared with us. His name is above all names.
Peter demonstrated it best when he said "gold and silver I do not have but this I have in the name of Jesus...
We can't even get our own lives straight knowing what we know and who we know do you think God would give us a ungoverned power of our own to do as we see fit?

Jesus said : you can do nothing without me:.
 
Sep 3, 2016
6,337
527
113
#14
Ok here's the lie right in your question, we have no authority over Satan. We have a means of escape, we are hedged around for protection, if our spiritual house is full he cannot enter. For even Michael the arc angel said the Lord rebuke you.
Casting out demons is not a power we have but a authority that's been given to Christ which he shares with us. For lack of a better example we've been deputized. For even demons were cast out by those that Jesus did not know but used his name.
If God allowed us to do what we saw fit there would be so much chaos you couldn't imagine.
It is by the will of God led by the Holy Spirit of God that Devine intervention is done through the authority that was given to Jesus which he has shared with us. His name is above all names.
Peter demonstrated it best when he said "gold and silver I do not have but this I have in the name of Jesus...
We can't even get our own lives straight knowing what we know and who we know do you think God would give us a ungoverned power of our own to do as we see fit?

Jesus said : you can do nothing without me:.
We are not wrestling against flesh and blood. Satan has been defeated through the Cross. Principalities and powers have been spoiled (Col. 2:15). We are enforcing this victory through applying the Cross of Calvary to the pulling down strongholds by placing and maintain our Faith exclusively in Christ and the Finished Work at Calvary Cross where the victory was won, i.e., "The Blood of Jesus." Our source of Power is the Holy Spirit and the Word of God.

The LORD shall fight for you, and you shall hold your peace (Exodus 14:14). "In Justification, the Lord fights 'for' us, and in Sanctification, He fights 'in' us."

Two kinds of peace
1. Justifying Peace - This is Peace with God, a legal standing. Rom. 8:7; Eph. 2:14-15
2. Sanctifying Peace - This is the Peace of God in the heart. Rom. 8:6; 14:19; 15:13; Gal. 1:3


The first is the result of a legal standing. The second is the result of the Work of the Holy Spirit. The first is static, never fluctuates, the second changes almost from hour to hour. The first, every Christian has, the second, every Christian may have.

Sanctifying peace allows the Holy Spirit to deliver the Believer into the death of Christ so Christ-life is manifested through the Believer (2 Cor. 4:11, Gal. 2:20-21, Romans 8:2; 13, John 14:21).

We have been given the keys of the Kingdom (Matthew 16:19). This gives us the authority to "bind" and "loose." "Binding" ties Satan's hands and stops his power to "steal, kill, and destroy," likewise, the "loosing" releases all that Jesus did at Calvary and the Resurrection. "Binding" has to do with the spirit world of darkness while "loosing" has to do with the Spirit world of Light. To "bind" means to restrict, stop, hinder, fetter, check, hold back, arrest, or put a stop to. To "loose" means to untie, unbind, unlock, liberate, release, forgive, or free.

Unbelief hinders spiritual authority. Never change the theology of the bible to accommodate something that did not happen based on the way you want it to do and the way you want it to be. Because God's word is true and every man is a liar. Authority can never be released in silence. The bible says, “Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks.” The whole idea and reason why the Devil wants the Christian believers to keep their mouth shut is that, if you don’t speak, spirits don’t leave.

The only way to God is through Jesus Christ (John 14:6)...the only way to Jesus Christ is by the Means of the Cross (Luke 14:27). The only way to the Cross is a denial of self (Luke 9:23). If any person tries to come any other way, Jesus says, "they are a thief and a robber" (John 10:1).

1. Jesus Christ is the source of all blessings.
2. The Cross is the means by which all blessings are given.
3. The object of our faith must be Christ and the Cross.

4. That being done, the Holy Spirit will greatly help us.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
23,460
7,178
113
#15
Well Jesus said if you tell the mountain to move, it will move. But Im not sure he's talking about actual mountains, cos try as I might, the nearest mountain hasnt moved to where I am.

It would be interesting to see a mountain move though, most people sort of drive around them.
 
Sep 3, 2016
6,337
527
113
#16
Bread Crumbs “Speak to that Mountain!”

The believer should not be afraid to say what he or she believes. There is a principle of scripture that proclaims the truth that a believer should declare what He believes to be the will of God. When faith is properly placed in Christ and what He has done for us at Calvary, covenant promises lie waiting to be claimed. The confession principle is proper and spiritually helpful for the kingdom of God, when the Christian is faithful to maintain the practice of denial of self and the object of their faith remains in the Cross of Christ. Salvation does not make man a “little god.” Salvation causes the believer to become a child of God who is always to be subservient to the Father. As God reveals the truth's of covenant provision to us, we as believers are called upon to claim them. Our speech does not provide the provision, the Cross did that. Instead, our proclamation is an exhibition of our faith in what God has provided for us through Christ at Calvary. Do not let the abuse of the confession principle that now exists in the body of Christ, stop you from understanding or participating in saying, claiming, even prophesying what you are daring to believe that God has prepared for you.

Mark 11:23 - For verily I say unto you, That whosoever shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that those things which he saith shall come to pass; he shall have whatsoever he saith.

Pastor Loren Larson
Loren Larson Ministries
 
Sep 3, 2016
6,337
527
113
#17
FAITH IN GOD by Donnie Swaggart

Mark 11:22-24 — “And Jesus answering saith unto them, Have faith in God. For verily I say unto you, That whosoever shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that those things which he saith shall come to pass; he shall have whatsoever he saith. Therefore I say unto you, What things soever you desire, when you pray, believe that you receive them, and you shall have them.”

In Romans 12:3 the apostle Paul said, “As God has dealt to every man the measure of faith.” This means at the moment of conversion every believer is given or granted a measure of faith; however, the believer is to allow that faith to grow beyond just a measure.

Now the question must be asked, how does one’s measure of faith grow and mature? There are several variables to that question that every believer must know and understand. They are:

1. For faith to mature, the believer must have a proper understanding of the atonement, what Christ accomplished on Calvary’s Cross. Our faith, our focus must ever be placed in Christ and Him crucified. Let me break it down this way:

• Jesus Christ is the source of all things that
we receive from God (Jn. 14:6; Col. 2:10)

• The Cross of Christ is the means and, in fact,
the only means by which these things are given
to us (Rom. 6:3-5; I Cor. 2:2)

• The Cross of Christ, and the Cross of Christ
alone, must be the object of our faith in order
for us to receive what has been given (I Cor.
1:17, 23; Gal. 6:14).

• The Holy Spirit, who works exclusively within
the parameters of the finished work of Christ,
oversees all of this (Rom. 8:1-2, 11; Eph.
2:13-18).

All error in the church begins with a faulty understanding of Calvary; hence one’s personal faith cannot mature as it should without proper knowledge of Calvary.

2. Next, one must know the will of God, which can only be learned by the Word of God. “Faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the Word of God” (Rom. 10:17).

3. Then comes fellowship and relationship with the Lord through prayer and Bible study, which help strengthen and develop our faith.

4. Finally, faith has to be tested. The Lord will allow trials and tribulations to come our way in order to teach us faith and trust in the Lord.

The believer must also know that every attack by Satan against us is really an attack against our faith. Will we put our trust in the Lord, man, or self?
 
Sep 3, 2016
6,337
527
113
#18
HAVE FAITH IN GOD This phrase literally means, “have the faith of God.” The structure of the Greek shows God as the object of faith. Once again, let me state that the object of our faith must ever be Christ and Him crucified.

God has chosen to operate His work from the basis of faith. In Hebrews 11:3, the Word of God says: “Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.” God’s vast creation was not created out of existing materials, but rather by faith. God spoke these things into existence; therefore His word carries not only power but creativity. His faith created His word; and as it regards human beings, His word creates faith.

God insists that man accepts everything done for him on the premise of faith—faith in the victory won on Calvary’s Cross. Christ must not be separated from the Cross, and the Cross must not be separated from Christ.

Faith in God ensures salvation and produces miracles. Hebrews 11:6 says, “Without faith it is impossible to please Him: For he who comes to God must believe (have faith) that He is and that He is a rewarder of them that diligently seek Him.”

If God can speak the word and create something out of nothing, then our faith in Him can turn our nothing into something.

Your salvation proves the power of faith, for it is by faith through grace that we are saved (Eph. 2:8). So the command from the Lord is, “Have faith in God.”

FOR VERILY I SAY UNTO YOU
This phrase is meant to announce a truth of great consequence. This great truth concerns faith in God. In this verse Jesus tells us what faith in God will do.

WHOSOEVER
In this one word we find that there is no discrimination with God as to who can have mountain-moving faith. It doesn’t matter if you are a preacher or a layman, anyone can have faith to move mountains.

SHALL SAY
These two words proclaim the power of proper scriptural confession. Whatever we say shows where our faith actually is, and the direction we are headed. Faith speaks; faith is never passive. True faith always speaks what the Word of God says and how it applies to one’s particular needs, which should always incorporate the will of God. Therefore, we must seek the face of God for the will of God regarding the situation we are facing.

UNTO THIS MOUNTAIN
The word mountain as it is used here is a metaphor and is not speaking of a literal mountain. The Lord used the word mountain to describe the great problems of life we all face. The Lord is actually saying that whatever we are facing is not bigger than a mountain. In effect, the Lord is saying, “All things are possible.”

BE THOU REMOVED
This statement proclaims the word and power of faith. Faith doesn’t ask how it can be done or whether it’s possible. Faith says, “Be thou removed.”

BE CAST INTO THE SEA
Faith in God not only moves the mountain, but it puts the problem in a place where it cannot harm others.

AND SHALL NOT DOUBT IN HIS HEART
The word doubt in the Greek is diakrino, which means “to judge between two.” In this case, it means to judge whether faith in God can or cannot do what it says. However, I want to impress upon you that we serve a God who can.

BUT SHALL BELIEVE
Not only are we not to doubt God, but we are to also believe what He has said in His Word. The Lord is telling us that if we have proper faith in God and we know the will of God as it regards the mountain we are facing, then we can say to any mountain “Be thou removed into the sea.” We are to believe what God says.

THOSE THINGS This speaks of our particular needs. We are to take everything to the Lord in prayer to get proper direction so we are not asking for things that are not God’s will for us.

WHATSOEVER HE SAYS
Once again the Lord is telling us to say what we want. We are to confess it, however let me state once again that a proper confession is only proper when it is aligned with the will of God.

To use as an example, someone can go around confessing day and night that they are going to be the next president of the United States, however if that’s not God’s will, it’s not going to happen.

SHALL COME TO PASS
In the Greek text, these words are in the present tense, as in “comes to pass.” The idea is that it may not happen instantly, but faith keeps believing and faith keeps confessing. As the old saying goes, “Delay is not denial.”

HE SHALL HAVE WHATSOEVER HE SAYS
If it is the will of God, and we keep believing, asking, and confessing, then the outcome is certain. Once again, let me stress that what we are believing for must be the will of God.

WHAT THINGS SO EVER YOU DESIRE
This verse is greatly misinterpreted by many Christians; we must understand that what we desire must be what God desires. If it is not that which God desires, then it’s not going to happen.

WHEN YOU PRAY
In the Greek, pray means, “To offer prayer addressed to God, to Him as the object of faith and the one who will answer one’s prayer.” If God is the object of faith, then one’s desire will be God’s will and not our will.

BELIEVE THAT YOU WILL RECEIVE THEM, AND YOU SHALL HAVE THEM
Believe means, “to put in trust with.” It means that we have to trust not only for our request to be granted, but also in
God’s time.

The phrase, “And you shall have them” refers to a present tense with a futuristic conclusion. He doesn’t say exactly when we shall have them, but that it will be done. We must entrust the timing to Him.

In conclusion, the Lord wants His children to “have faith in God” regarding every situation in their lives.

FAITH IN GOD by Donnie Swaggart
 
Sep 3, 2016
6,337
527
113
#19
God insists that man accepts everything done for him on the premise of faith—faith in the victory won on Calvary’s Cross. Christ must not be separated from the Cross, and the Cross must not be separated from Christ.

(This not speaking of the crucifix. The crucifix is different from the Cross. The Cross is Jesus no longer hanging on it. The crucifix as you see in the Catholic Church is a Cross showing Jesus still hanging on it. Jesus is not still hanging on the Cross.)
 
P

pottersclay

Guest
#20
We are not wrestling against flesh and blood. Satan has been defeated through the Cross. Principalities and powers have been spoiled (Col. 2:15). We are enforcing this victory through applying the Cross of Calvary to the pulling down strongholds by placing and maintain our Faith exclusively in Christ and the Finished Work at Calvary Cross where the victory was won, i.e., "The Blood of Jesus." Our source of Power is the Holy Spirit and the Word of God.

The LORD shall fight for you, and you shall hold your peace (Exodus 14:14). "In Justification, the Lord fights 'for' us, and in Sanctification, He fights 'in' us."

Two kinds of peace
1. Justifying Peace - This is Peace with God, a legal standing. Rom. 8:7; Eph. 2:14-15
2. Sanctifying Peace - This is the Peace of God in the heart. Rom. 8:6; 14:19; 15:13; Gal. 1:3


The first is the result of a legal standing. The second is the result of the Work of the Holy Spirit. The first is static, never fluctuates, the second changes almost from hour to hour. The first, every Christian has, the second, every Christian may have.

Sanctifying peace allows the Holy Spirit to deliver the Believer into the death of Christ so Christ-life is manifested through the Believer (2 Cor. 4:11, Gal. 2:20-21, Romans 8:2; 13, John 14:21).

We have been given the keys of the Kingdom (Matthew 16:19). This gives us the authority to "bind" and "loose." "Binding" ties Satan's hands and stops his power to "steal, kill, and destroy," likewise, the "loosing" releases all that Jesus did at Calvary and the Resurrection. "Binding" has to do with the spirit world of darkness while "loosing" has to do with the Spirit world of Light. To "bind" means to restrict, stop, hinder, fetter, check, hold back, arrest, or put a stop to. To "loose" means to untie, unbind, unlock, liberate, release, forgive, or free.

Unbelief hinders spiritual authority. Never change the theology of the bible to accommodate something that did not happen based on the way you want it to do and the way you want it to be. Because God's word is true and every man is a liar. Authority can never be released in silence. The bible says, “Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks.” The whole idea and reason why the Devil wants the Christian believers to keep their mouth shut is that, if you don’t speak, spirits don’t leave.

The only way to God is through Jesus Christ (John 14:6)...the only way to Jesus Christ is by the Means of the Cross (Luke 14:27). The only way to the Cross is a denial of self (Luke 9:23). If any person tries to come any other way, Jesus says, "they are a thief and a robber" (John 10:1).

1. Jesus Christ is the source of all blessings.
2. The Cross is the means by which all blessings are given.
3. The object of our faith must be Christ and the Cross.

4. That being done, the Holy Spirit will greatly help us.
I agree and still stand on WE have no power over satan. Jesus has the power.
Most Christian's run around with this thought that they have this magical abracadabra thing sparks out of the finger tips kind of mentality.
Our power as it were and is ..... access to the throne, access in prayer, access to the one who has sent us and who we are found in.
We are all subjects to God's will to be done....no matter how you slice it. If God says yes it's yes...if God says no it's no.
That's why we are to be led by his Holy Spirit.
Jesus said time after time I do the will of my father who sent me....I do what he tells me.
A perfect example of being led by the holy spirit.....
There is nothing better than I'd love to do is to go to St. Jude's hospital and heal every child there in one swoop. Truth is not going to happen. Is that because I lack faith?? Oh I know the Lord can but his will says other wise.
That's what I'm trying to relate here.