Worried about hell?

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Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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As I said, I don't ignore any scripture, but cling to them.
There are a plethora of Scriptures that state unequivocally
that death is the wages of sin, that the soul that sins shall perish.
PERISH is ἀπόλλυμι, word #622 in Strong's concordance.

apollumi: to destroy, destroy utterly
Original Word: ἀπόλλυμι
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: apollumi
Phonetic Spelling: (ap-ol'-loo-mee)
Short Definition: I destroy, lose, am perishing
Definition: (a) I kill, destroy, (b) I lose, mid: I am perishing (the resultant death being viewed
as certain).

HELPS Word-studies
622 apóllymi (from 575 /apó, "away from," which intensifies ollymi, "to destroy") – properly, fully destroy, cutting off entirely (note the force of the prefix, 575 /apó).

622/apóllymi("violently/completely perish") impliespermanent (absolute) destruction, i.e. to cancel out (remove); "to die, with the implication of ruin and destruction" (L & N, 1, 23.106); cause to be lost (utterly perish) by experiencing a miserable end.

I will continue to pray that God will reveal these truths to you.

I too cling to Scriptures. The God I know is loving, just, and merciful.

I shall likewise pray for your enlightenment.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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How loving. I'm gonna create something so I can torture it. Nice. Me thinks you have a skewed understanding of the character of God.

Technically speaking, hell was made for the devil and his angels that did not keep their first estate.....not men
 
Aug 16, 2016
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At some point the point is made. After that it's just sadistic.
That's something you'll have to address with God. I understand, I wouldn't want people to be tormented forever. That being said the scriptures says Gods ways are not ours nor is his thinking.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
56,171
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Technically speaking, hell was made for the devil and his angels that did not keep their first estate.....not men
That is the lake of fire, not hell. Hell is a translation of four words from the original languages of Hebrew and Greek: Sheol, Gehenna, Hades, and Tartarus (that last one is only used once, to denote the place where the angels who have sinned are being held.) They generally simply mean holding place of the dead. Hell is eventually thrown into the Lake of Fire.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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That is the lake of fire, not hell. Hell is a translation of four words from the original languages of Hebrew and Greek: Sheol, Gehenna, Hades, and Tartarus (that last one is only used once, to denote the place where the angels who have sinned are being held.) They generally simply mean holding place of the dead. Hell is eventually thrown into the Lake of Fire.
Matthew 25:41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
2 Peter 2:4

For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to chains of gloomy darkness to be kept until the judgment;

Have studied it well.....

Have a question...based upon the following verse.....If GOD saves for ever, and everything he does IS EVERLASTING then how does the view that HELL or the LAKE of fire is not forever fit.....would it not make the following verse a lie?

New International Version
I know that everything God does will endure forever; nothing can be added to it and nothing taken from it. God does it so that people will fear him.

English Standard Version
I perceived that whatever God does endures forever; nothing can be added to it, nor anything taken from it. God has done it, so that people fear before him.

New American Standard Bible
I know that everything God does will remain forever; there is nothing to add to it and there is nothing to take from it, for God has so worked that men should fear Him.

King James Bible
I know that, whatsoever God doeth, it shall be for ever: nothing can be put to it, nor any thing taken from it: and God doeth it, that men should fear before him.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
56,171
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Matthew 25:41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
2 Peter 2:4

For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to chains of gloomy darkness to be kept until the judgment;

Have studied it well.....

Have a question...based upon the following verse.....If GOD saves for ever, and everything he does IS EVERLASTING then how does the view that HELL or the LAKE of fire is not forever fit.....would it not make the following verse a lie?

New International Version
I know that everything God does will endure forever; nothing can be added to it and nothing taken from it. God does it so that people will fear him.

English Standard Version
I perceived that whatever God does endures forever; nothing can be added to it, nor anything taken from it. God has done it, so that people fear before him.

New American Standard Bible
I know that everything God does will remain forever; there is nothing to add to it and there is nothing to take from it, for God has so worked that men should fear Him.

King James Bible
I know that, whatsoever God doeth, it shall be for ever: nothing can be put to it, nor any thing taken from it: and God doeth it, that men should fear before him.
I am not sure I understand your question. Scripture explicitly states that death and hell will be thrown into the lake of fire, which was prepared for the devil and his angels. The verse you have cited (2 Peter 2:4) is the one and only place where that word is used; Tartaros is translated into hell, and is not a reference to any place people go. It is the holding place for the angels unto judgement who have sinned against God.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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I am not sure I understand your question. Scripture explicitly states that death and hell will be thrown into the lake of fire, which was prepared for the devil and his angels. The verse you have cited (2 Peter 2:4) is the one and only place where that word is used; Tartaros is translated into hell, and is not a reference to any place people go. It is the holding place for the angels unto judgement who have sinned against God.
My point is simple....whatever God does...either saving a person or punishing an unbeliever does the eternal aspect apply to both...and if not to punishment (for a lost man) then does that render Ecclesiastes 3:14 and it's use of WHATSOEVER a lie?
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
56,171
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My point is simple....whatever God does...either saving a person or punishing an unbeliever does the eternal aspect apply to both...and if not to punishment (for a lost man) then does that render Ecclesiastes 3:14 and it's use of WHATSOEVER a lie?
I see. Thank you for explaining :) If God puts someone to death, does their death last forever? Jesus did not stay dead forever, did He? I think keeping things in their proper perspective and context is important. Death is everlasting punishment for those who pass out of God's creation due to their refusal to accept Him as sovereign Lord. Even their names will be forgotten. It does make me wonder, if every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus is Lord, who there will be to be discarded in such a fashion. I did make a post about the use of the words eternal and everlasting earlier in this thread. They are obviously not always meant to be taken literally, or else Sodom and Gomorrah would still be burning and it is not.

Here it is:

The Bible does frequently use the image of eternal fire in order to represent God's anger with sin, which will result in the total destruction of the sinner in the grave. Sodom was punished with "eternal fire" (Jude v. 7), i.e. it was totally destroyed due to the wickedness of the inhabitants. Today that city is in ruins, submerged beneath the waters of the Dead Sea; in no way is it now on fire, which is necessary if we are to understand 'eternal fire' literally.

Likewise Jerusalem was threatened with the eternal fire of God's anger, due to the sins of Israel: "Then will I kindle a fire in the gates thereof, and it shall devour the palaces of Jerusalem, and it shall not be quenched" (Jer. 17:27). Jerusalem being the prophesied capital of the future Kingdom (Is. 2:2-4; Ps. 48:2), God did not mean us to read this literally. The great houses of Jerusalem were burnt down with fire (2 Kings 25:9), but that fire did not continue eternally.


Similarly, God punished the land of Idumea with fire that would "not be quenched night nor day; the smoke thereof shall go up for ever: from generation to generation it shall lie waste...the owl and the raven shall dwell in it...thorns shall come up in her palaces" (Is. 34:9-15). Seeing that animals and plants were to exist in the ruined land of Idumea, the language of eternal fire must refer to God's anger and His total destruction of the place, rather than being taken literally.

The Hebrew and Greek phrases which are translated "for ever" mean strictly, "for the age". Sometimes this refers to literal infinity, for example the age of the kingdom, but not always. Ez. 32:14,15 is an example: "The forts and towers shall be dens for ever...until the spirit be poured upon us". This is one way of understanding the 'eternity' of 'eternal fire'.


Time and again God's anger with the sins of Jerusalem and Israel is likened to fire: "Mine anger and my fury shall be poured out upon this place (Jerusalem)...it shall burn, and shall not be quenched" (Jer. 7:20; other examples include Lam. 4:11 and 2 Kings 22:17).

Fire is also associated with God's judgment of sin, especially at the return of Christ: "For, behold, the day cometh that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up" (Mal. 4:1). When stubble, or even a human body, is burnt by fire, it returns to dust. It is impossible for any substance, especially human flesh, to literally burn for ever. The language of 'eternal fire' therefore cannot refer to literal eternal torment. It should be noted that "hell" is "cast into the lake of fire" (Rev. 20:14). This indicates that hell is not the same as "the lake of fire"; this represents complete destruction. In the symbolic manner of the book of Revelation, we are being told that the grave is to be totally destroyed, because at the end of the Millennium there will be no more death.
http://www.christadelphians.com/biblebasics/0409hell.html
 

prove-all

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
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Have a question...based upon the following verse.....If GOD saves for ever, and everything he does IS EVERLASTING then how does the view that HELL or the LAKE of fire is not forever fit.....would it not make the following verse a lie?


King James Bible
I know that, whatsoever God doeth, it shall be for ever: nothing can be put to it,
nor any thing taken from it: and God doeth it, that men should fear before him.
then do you agree that the bible says Gods law is forever


[h=3]Exodus 20:11 (KJV)[/h]
For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is,
and restedthe seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

1 Chronicles 16:17 (KJV)
And hath confirmed the same to Jacob for a law,
and to Israel for an everlasting covenant,

Psalms 105:10 (KJV)
And confirmed the same unto Jacob for a law,
and to Israel for an everlasting covenant:

Psalms 78:5 (KJV)
For he established a testimony in Jacob, and appointed a law in Israel,
which he commanded our fathers, that they should make them known to their children:

Isaiah 42:24 (KJV)
Who gave Jacob for a spoil, and Israel to the robbers? did not the Lord,
he against whom we have sinned? for they would not walk in his ways,
neither were they obedient unto his law.
-

Romans 9:4 (KJV)
Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants,
and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;

-

Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments,
and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven:

but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great
in the kingdom of heaven.
 
Aug 15, 2009
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Luke 12: 4“I say to you, My friends, do not be afraid of those who kill the body and after that have no more that they can do.5“But I will warn you whom to fear: fear the One who, after He has killed, has authority to cast into hell; yes, I tell you, fear Him!

Psalms 36: 1Transgression speaks to the ungodly within his heart; There is no fear of God before his eyes.2For it flatters him in his own eyes
Concerning the discovery of his iniquity and the hatred of it.
3The words of his mouth are wickedness and deceit;
He has ceased to be wise and to do good.
4He plans wickedness upon his bed;
He sets himself on a path that is not good;
He does not despise evil.

Romans 3: 12ALL HAVE TURNED ASIDE, TOGETHER THEY HAVE BECOME USELESS;
THERE IS NONE WHO DOES GOOD, THERE IS NOT EVEN ONE.”
13“THEIR THROAT IS AN OPEN GRAVE,
WITH THEIR TONGUES THEY KEEP DECEIVING,”
THE POISON OF ASPS IS UNDER THEIR LIPS”;
14WHOSE MOUTH IS FULL OF CURSING AND BITTERNESS”; 15“THEIR FEET ARE SWIFT TO SHED BLOOD, 16DESTRUCTION AND MISERY ARE IN THEIR PATHS, 17AND THE PATH OF PEACE THEY HAVE NOT KNOWN. 18THERE IS NO FEAR OF GOD BEFORE THEIR EYES.
 

88

Senior Member
Nov 14, 2016
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If we are seeking to please God---we do not have to worry about hell----it is easier to "get on fire" for God than be fearful in negative way-----I do fear God----we must recognize the goodness and the severity of God...(Romans 11:22)
 
Dec 2, 2016
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Has anyone heard the story by Bill Wiese, 23 Minutes in Hell? He claimed to have went to hell and described it as one horrible place.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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4

“I say to you, My friends, do not be afraid of those who kill the body and after that have no more that they can do.5“But I will warn you whom to fear: fear the One who, after He has killed, has authority to cast into hell; yes, I tell you, fear Him!
Matthew 10:28

NIV
Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul.
Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

New Living Translation
"Don't be afraid of those who want to kill your body; they cannot touch
your soul. Fear only God, who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

English Standard Version
And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul.
Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

Berean Study Bible
Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul.
Instead, fear the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

Berean Literal Bible
And you should not be afraid of those killing the body but not being able to kill the soul. Indeed rather you should fear the One being able to destroy both soul and body in Gehenna.

New American Standard Bible
"Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul;
but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

King James Bible

And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul:
but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
Don't fear those who kill the body but are not able to kill the soul;
rather, fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

International Standard Version
Stop being afraid of those who kill the body but can't kill the soul.
Instead, be afraid of the one who can destroy both body and soul in hell.

NET Bible
Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul.
Instead, fear the one who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

New Heart English Bible
And do not be afraid of those who kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul.
Rather, fear him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
“And you shall not be afraid of those who kill the body that are not able to kill
the soul; rather be afraid of him who can destroy soul and body in Gehenna.”

GOD'S WORD® Translation
Don't be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul.
Instead, fear the one who can destroy both body and soul in hell.

New American Standard 1977
“And do not fear those who kill the body, but are unable to kill the soul;
but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Jubilee Bible 2000
And fear not those who kill the body but are not able to kill the soul,
but rather fear him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

King James 2000 Bible
And fear not them who kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul:
but rather fear him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

American King James Version
And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul:
but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

American Standard Version
And be not afraid of them that kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul:
but rather fear him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Douay-Rheims Bible
And fear ye not them that kill the body, and are not able to kill the soul:
but rather fear him that can destroy both soul and body in hell.

Darby Bible Translation
And be not afraid of those who kill the body, but cannot kill the soul;
but fear rather him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

English Revised Version
And be not afraid of them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul:
but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Webster's Bible Translation
And fear not them who kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul:
but rather fear him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Weymouth New Testament
"And do not fear those who kill the body, but cannot kill the soul; but
rather fear him who is able to destroy both soul and body in Gehenna.

World English Bible
Don't be afraid of those who kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul.
Rather, fear him who is able to destroy both soul and body in Gehenna.

Young's Literal Translation

'And be not afraid of those killing the body, and are not able to kill the soul,
but fear rather Him who is able both soul and body to destroy in gehenna.

Please excuse the weird quote, I could not prevent it
:)
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
56,171
26,221
113
Has anyone heard the story by Bill Wiese, 23 Minutes in Hell? He claimed to have went to hell and described it as one horrible place.
The LORD saw how great the wickedness of the human race had become on the earth, and that every inclination of the thoughts of the human heart was only evil all the time.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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I see. Thank you for explaining :) If God puts someone to death, does their death last forever? Jesus did not stay dead forever, did He? I think keeping things in their proper perspective and context is important. Death is everlasting punishment for those who pass out of God's creation due to their refusal to accept Him as sovereign Lord. Even their names will be forgotten. It does make me wonder, if every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus is Lord, who there will be to be discarded in such a fashion. I did make a post about the use of the words eternal and everlasting earlier in this thread. They are obviously not always meant to be taken literally, or else Sodom and Gomorrah would still be burning and it is not.

Here it is:

The Bible does frequently use the image of eternal fire in order to represent God's anger with sin, which will result in the total destruction of the sinner in the grave. Sodom was punished with "eternal fire" (Jude v. 7), i.e. it was totally destroyed due to the wickedness of the inhabitants. Today that city is in ruins, submerged beneath the waters of the Dead Sea; in no way is it now on fire, which is necessary if we are to understand 'eternal fire' literally.

Likewise Jerusalem was threatened with the eternal fire of God's anger, due to the sins of Israel: "Then will I kindle a fire in the gates thereof, and it shall devour the palaces of Jerusalem, and it shall not be quenched" (Jer. 17:27). Jerusalem being the prophesied capital of the future Kingdom (Is. 2:2-4; Ps. 48:2), God did not mean us to read this literally. The great houses of Jerusalem were burnt down with fire (2 Kings 25:9), but that fire did not continue eternally.


Similarly, God punished the land of Idumea with fire that would "not be quenched night nor day; the smoke thereof shall go up for ever: from generation to generation it shall lie waste...the owl and the raven shall dwell in it...thorns shall come up in her palaces" (Is. 34:9-15). Seeing that animals and plants were to exist in the ruined land of Idumea, the language of eternal fire must refer to God's anger and His total destruction of the place, rather than being taken literally.

The Hebrew and Greek phrases which are translated "for ever" mean strictly, "for the age". Sometimes this refers to literal infinity, for example the age of the kingdom, but not always. Ez. 32:14,15 is an example: "The forts and towers shall be dens for ever...until the spirit be poured upon us". This is one way of understanding the 'eternity' of 'eternal fire'.


Time and again God's anger with the sins of Jerusalem and Israel is likened to fire: "Mine anger and my fury shall be poured out upon this place (Jerusalem)...it shall burn, and shall not be quenched" (Jer. 7:20; other examples include Lam. 4:11 and 2 Kings 22:17).

Fire is also associated with God's judgment of sin, especially at the return of Christ: "For, behold, the day cometh that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up" (Mal. 4:1). When stubble, or even a human body, is burnt by fire, it returns to dust. It is impossible for any substance, especially human flesh, to literally burn for ever. The language of 'eternal fire' therefore cannot refer to literal eternal torment. It should be noted that "hell" is "cast into the lake of fire" (Rev. 20:14). This indicates that hell is not the same as "the lake of fire"; this represents complete destruction. In the symbolic manner of the book of Revelation, we are being told that the grave is to be totally destroyed, because at the end of the Millennium there will be no more death.
http://www.christadelphians.com/biblebasics/0409hell.html
There was only 1 just man in all of Sodom and Gomorrah (LOT) and he was delivered....the rest were lost and yes they are still burning and suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.....
 
Dec 12, 2013
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then do you agree that the bible says Gods law is forever


Exodus 20:11 (KJV)

For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is,
and restedthe seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

1 Chronicles 16:17 (KJV)
And hath confirmed the same to Jacob for a law,
and to Israel for an everlasting covenant,

Psalms 105:10 (KJV)
And confirmed the same unto Jacob for a law,
and to Israel for an everlasting covenant:

Psalms 78:5 (KJV)
For he established a testimony in Jacob, and appointed a law in Israel,
which he commanded our fathers, that they should make them known to their children:

Isaiah 42:24 (KJV)
Who gave Jacob for a spoil, and Israel to the robbers? did not the Lord,
he against whom we have sinned? for they would not walk in his ways,
neither were they obedient unto his law.
-

Romans 9:4 (KJV)
Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants,
and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;

-

Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments,
and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven:

but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great
in the kingdom of heaven.
Is God eternal? Sure he is and as long as he is ALIVE (eternity) his law will reign supreme....and is not the law for the lawless?

This truth in no way, shape or form alleviates the consequences of the law being nailed to the cross of Christ and taken out of the way for ALL you exercise faith into Jesus.......the LOST will suffer the eternal consequence of rejecting the "cure" and pay the price.......the cure being the blood of JESUS applied by faith!
 

prove-all

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
5,977
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This truth in no way, shape or form alleviates the consequences of the law being nailed to the cross
the law could not, was not nailed to the cross



about the the handwriting of requirements


"And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh,
He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses,
having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us,

which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way,
having nailed it to the cross".

the last chapter of the last book of the Bible teaches:

"Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to
the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city" (Revelation 22:14).

Since it is only "those who do His commandments...{who} have the right
to enter...the city" , the ten commandments could not be "contrary to us."

Actually, it is only those who will not keep the ten commandments that are denied access.
Revelation specifically shows that those who break one of at least four of
the ten commandments will be outside God's city (Revelation 22:15).

the ten commandments were not "nailed to the cross," what was?
Look again at what the Bible actually says (two translations):


14 having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us,
which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way,
having nailed it to the cross (Colossians 2:14, NKJV)

14 having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us,
which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way,
having nailed it to the cross.. (Colossians 2:14, NASB)


The handwriting of requirements (often also called the hand-writing of ordinances)
or certificate of debt was wiped away and nailed to the stake, which some call a cross

Which requirements were wiped out?

the expression "the handwriting of requirements" (cheirógrafon toís dógmasin)
is a Greek legal expression that signifies the penalty which a lawbreaker had to pay

--it does not signify the laws that are to be obeyed--only the penalty. It is only through
the acceptance of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ that the penalty was wiped out
("the handwriting of requirements").

But only the penalty, not the law!

Even some Protestant commentators realize this is so.
Notice what Matthew Henry's Commentary on the Whole Bible states about Colossians 2:14:

Whatever was in force against us is taken out of the way. He has obtained for us
a legal discharge from the hand-writing of ordinances, which was against us (v. 14),
which may be understood,

1. Of that obligation to punishment in which consists the guilt of sin. The curse of the law is
the hand-writing against us, like the hand-writing on Belshazzar's wall. Cursed is every one
who continues not in every thing. This was a hand-writing which was against us, and contrary
to us; for it threatened our eternal ruin.

This was removed when he redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us,
Gal 3:13. (from Matthew Henry's Commentary on the Whole Bible: New Modern Edition,
Electronic Database. Copyright (c) 1991 by Hendrickson Publishers, Inc.).

In addition, let us look at the Greek term exaleipho translated as "wiped out" in Colossians 2:14:

NT:1813
exaleipho (ex-al-i'-fo); from NT:1537 and NT:218; to smear out, i.e. obliterate (erase tears, figuratively, pardon sin) (Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance
with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright (c) 1994, Biblesoft and International
Bible Translators, Inc.)


In other words, exaleipho has to do with wiping out sin. This is also confirmed in Acts 3:19
where Peter also uses the term exaleipho, which is translated as "blotted out" below:

19 Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out,
so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord.

Hence, it is sin and the related penalties that are to be blotted or wiped out.
And the penalties could vary from "being unclean to the evening" (Leviticus 11:24-28)
to making an offering (Leviticus 5:5-6) to being "cut off from his people" (Leviticus 7:27)
to the death penalty (Exodus 31:14).

This is also confirmed elsewhere in the New Testament:

13 Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us
(Galatians 3:13). The curse of the law is related to the penalty. And Jesus paid it.

But what about the law of God? Was the law of God to be wiped out? No:

17 "Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets.
I did not come to destroy but to fulfill (Matthew 5:17)


While some erroneously think that Jesus, for example, did away with the Ten Commandments
by how He led His life, that most certainly was not the view of the early Christians who
continued to keep them[Paul included]

Furthermore, remember that the Bible clearly teaches that sin is lawlessness:

Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. And you know that
He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. (I John 3:4-5).

Notice that Paul wrote:

Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? Certainly not!
How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? (Romans 6:1-2).

Thus the New Testament makes clear that the law of God continues,
thus it was not nailed to the cross or somehow wiped out.

The Bible, however, also shows that the requirements of the Levitical priesthood
(Hebrews 9:1,6-10) sometimes called the law, which were part of the penalty of sin,
were blotted out.

And why?

"For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and goats could take away sins...
By that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus
once for all" (Hebrews 10:4,10).

Jesus' one sacrifice was and is sufficient--we do not have to sacrifice animals any more!

Another requirement (which is related) would be the death penalty of sin,
as "the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord"
(Romans 6:23) or other specific ceremonial penalties associated with the Old Testament
statutes (such as making a sin offering, being put outside the camp, or washing).
 
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SCHISM

Senior Member
Aug 2, 2016
299
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0
Not worried about hell.

Perhaps unsaved people are punished in the grave until the time when they are brought into court and sentenced to the second death.

Perhaps the lake of fire annihilates the unsaved human souls, but mayhaps the souls of the devil and his angels are made of different stuff whereas they are tortured forever.

Could this rationale bring peace between the dispute here?

I think it seems just. Humans, with limited knowledge and varying circumstances, are punished for a limited time then destroyed, both body and soul. Devil and his angels are punished forever.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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the law could not, was not nailed to the cross



about the the handwriting of requirements


"And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh,
He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses,
having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us,

which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way,
having nailed it to the cross".

the last chapter of the last book of the Bible teaches:

"Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to
the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city" (Revelation 22:14).

Since it is only "those who do His commandments...{who} have the right
to enter...the city" , the ten commandments could not be "contrary to us."

Actually, it is only those who will not keep the ten commandments that are denied access.
Revelation specifically shows that those who break one of at least four of
the ten commandments will be outside God's city (Revelation 22:15).

the ten commandments were not "nailed to the cross," what was?
Look again at what the Bible actually says (two translations):


14 having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us,
which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way,
having nailed it to the cross (Colossians 2:14, NKJV)

14 having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us,
which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way,
having nailed it to the cross.. (Colossians 2:14, NASB)


The handwriting of requirements (often also called the hand-writing of ordinances)
or certificate of debt was wiped away and nailed to the stake, which some call a cross

Which requirements were wiped out?

the expression "the handwriting of requirements" (cheirógrafon toís dógmasin)
is a Greek legal expression that signifies the penalty which a lawbreaker had to pay

--it does not signify the laws that are to be obeyed--only the penalty. It is only through
the acceptance of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ that the penalty was wiped out
("the handwriting of requirements").

But only the penalty, not the law!

Even some Protestant commentators realize this is so.
Notice what Matthew Henry's Commentary on the Whole Bible states about Colossians 2:14:

Whatever was in force against us is taken out of the way. He has obtained for us
a legal discharge from the hand-writing of ordinances, which was against us (v. 14),
which may be understood,

1. Of that obligation to punishment in which consists the guilt of sin. The curse of the law is
the hand-writing against us, like the hand-writing on Belshazzar's wall. Cursed is every one
who continues not in every thing. This was a hand-writing which was against us, and contrary
to us; for it threatened our eternal ruin.

This was removed when he redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us,
Gal 3:13. (from Matthew Henry's Commentary on the Whole Bible: New Modern Edition,
Electronic Database. Copyright (c) 1991 by Hendrickson Publishers, Inc.).

In addition, let us look at the Greek term exaleipho translated as "wiped out" in Colossians 2:14:

NT:1813
exaleipho (ex-al-i'-fo); from NT:1537 and NT:218; to smear out, i.e. obliterate (erase tears, figuratively, pardon sin) (Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance
with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright (c) 1994, Biblesoft and International
Bible Translators, Inc.)


In other words, exaleipho has to do with wiping out sin. This is also confirmed in Acts 3:19
where Peter also uses the term exaleipho, which is translated as "blotted out" below:

19 Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out,
so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord.

Hence, it is sin and the related penalties that are to be blotted or wiped out.
And the penalties could vary from "being unclean to the evening" (Leviticus 11:24-28)
to making an offering (Leviticus 5:5-6) to being "cut off from his people" (Leviticus 7:27)
to the death penalty (Exodus 31:14).

This is also confirmed elsewhere in the New Testament:

13 Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us
(Galatians 3:13). The curse of the law is related to the penalty. And Jesus paid it.

But what about the law of God? Was the law of God to be wiped out? No:

17 "Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets.
I did not come to destroy but to fulfill (Matthew 5:17)


While some erroneously think that Jesus, for example, did away with the Ten Commandments
by how He led His life, that most certainly was not the view of the early Christians who
continued to keep them[Paul included]

Furthermore, remember that the Bible clearly teaches that sin is lawlessness:

Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. And you know that
He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. (I John 3:4-5).

Notice that Paul wrote:

Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? Certainly not!
How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? (Romans 6:1-2).

Thus the New Testament makes clear that the law of God continues,
thus it was not nailed to the cross or somehow wiped out.

The Bible, however, also shows that the requirements of the Levitical priesthood
(Hebrews 9:1,6-10) sometimes called the law, which were part of the penalty of sin,
were blotted out.

And why?

"For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and goats could take away sins...
By that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus
once for all" (Hebrews 10:4,10).

Jesus' one sacrifice was and is sufficient--we do not have to sacrifice animals any more!

Another requirement (which is related) would be the death penalty of sin,
as "the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord"
(Romans 6:23) or other specific ceremonial penalties associated with the Old Testament
statutes (such as making a sin offering, being put outside the camp, or washing).
Did Jesus bear our punishment on the tree or not?
By Christ's sacrifice was the condemnation of the law removed? (for those who believe)

You missed my point bro!
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
56,171
26,221
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Did Jesus bear our punishment on the tree or not?
By Christ's sacrifice was the condemnation of the law removed? (for those who believe)

You missed my point bro!
Wasn't your point being, that anything God does lasts forever?