You May Not Want to be Taken/Raptured

[louis]

There is no gathering at the second coming.
To say wicked are gathered (half of some group,one taken,one left) would mean that they are taken alive to some location,and lets just guess where,since there is nowhere to take these alive people to.

It is the rapture "BEFORE THE FLOOD" !!!!!
You completely misplace the timing. It says BEFORE THE FLOOD.

Under your own template,you are saying he comes BEFORE THE TRIBULATION (FLOOD).
So,you have a pretrib gathering of a group BEFORE THE GT.


That verse you use in mat 24 is in fact Mat 25;
5 While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.
6 And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.
7 Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.
8 And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.
9 But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.
10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.
11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.
13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.

There you go,half of a group taken. Half the body of Christ. they that were ready went

There is a tribulation period for the faithful, which precedes and transpires during the reign of the beast (Matthew 24; Mark 13; Luke 21; Revelation 12), and their are the seven vials of God's wrath poured out on the faithless (Revelation 16) for their having persecuted and killed the saints during the travailing/tribuation period (Revelation 17:6-7).

Revelation 17:6 [FONT=&quot]And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]7 And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns.[/FONT]

 

[louis]

Matthew 24 refers to the fall of Jerusalem, which ovcurrred in 70 a.d. Jesus told his apostles that all would happen during their own generation, their age, which it did. If it was referring to the end of the world, why on earth would they flee to the maintains or to their rooftops? Use your head.

The Lord said that the generation who witnessed the events in Matthew 24:34, would not pass (expire), before all described therein occurred. This includes Matthew 24:30-31 where all the people on earth see the son of man coming in the clouds of heaven in power and great glory, at which time the Lord gathers his faithful from the four corners of the earth. CONTEXT is very important; these things did not transpire in 70 AD.

Matthew 24:34 [FONT=&quot]Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.[/FONT]

 

[IamWhoIam]

Global warming is just one effect from all the damage the works of man are producing. Isaiah 24 pretty much describes the end results from all the works of man through industry, which continues to devour the earth.

Isaiah 24:6 Therefore hath the curse devoured the earth, and they that dwell therein are desolate: therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men left.

yes and we feed all that,, Christian or not.

the computers we use to chat on CC are doing damage to the earth, bad components, junk parts end up in land fills leaking toxins into the earth. We feed Internet providers with tons of cash so we can chat on CC, we buy computers that support the Worldly industries so we can chat on CC and the list goes on and on.

Though I am concern with the oceans for the oceans make up around 70% of the earth's oxygen we breath each day, and the deep sea coral is pretty much the base of the food chain in the oceans. most of the carbon in the atmosphere ends up in the ocean in which is slowing killing the sea coral once the sea corals are gone all life in the sea will end not a third but all and after that all life on earth will end as well, a slow and painful path.

 

[louis]

yes and we feed all that,, Christian or not.

the computers we use to chat on CC are doing damage to the earth, bad components, junk parts end up in land fills leaking toxins into the earth. We feed Internet providers with tons of cash so we can chat on CC, we buy computers that support the Worldly industries so we can chat on CC and the list goes on and on.

Though I am concern with the oceans for the oceans make up around 70% of the earth's oxygen we breath each day, and the deep sea coral is pretty much the base of the food chain in the oceans. most of the carbon in the atmosphere ends up in the ocean in which is slowing killing the sea coral once the sea corals are gone all life in the sea will end not a third but all and after that all life on earth will end as well, a slow and painful path.

I also use all these technical instruments. I eat food produced on farms where fertilizer runoff goes into rivers. I use electricity from companies who burn fossil fuels to produce it. It is an irony, and we are all guilty.
It may be we need to wait for the signs in the heavens and on earth to get somewhat near those described in Revelation 8, and Luke 21:25-26, before we really start believing the truth therein.

Luke 21:25 [FONT=&quot]And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;[/FONT][FONT=&quot]26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.[/FONT]

 

[IamWhoIam]

I also use all these technical instruments. I eat food produced on farms where fertilizer runoff goes into rivers. I use electricity from companies who burn fossil fuels to produce it. It is an irony, and we are all guilty.
It may be we need to wait for the signs in the heavens and on earth to get somewhat near those described in Revelation 8, and Luke 21:25-26, before we really start believing the truth therein.

Luke 21:25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.

Very well said and I completely agree, it is better to wait sort of like being quick to think slow to speak.

it wasn't that long ago around September I think, there was all that fuss about the stars lining up and that being a sure sign of the apocalypse, that day came and went without a hitch, thus the people who had gotten other people all worked up over nothing can be viewed as misleading folks.

 

[louis]

Very well said and I completely agree, it is better to wait sort of like being quick to think slow to speak.

it wasn't that long ago around September I think, there was all that fuss about the stars lining up and that being a sure sign of the apocalypse, that day came and went without a hitch, thus the people who had gotten other people all worked up over nothing can be viewed as misleading folks.

Also, very well said.
We then need to continue watching.

Mark 13:37 [FONT=&quot]And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch[/FONT]

 

[Locutus]

Nothing like an out of context verse to establish nothing.

(Mark 13:9 KJV) But take heed to yourselves: for they shall deliver you up to councils; and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten: and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them.


Anybody see any believers being beaten in the synagogues?

 

[abcdef]

There is a tribulation period for the faithful, which precedes and transpires during the reign of the beast (Matthew 24; Mark 13; Luke 21; Revelation 12), and their are the seven vials of God's wrath poured out on the faithless (Revelation 16) for their having persecuted and killed the saints during the travailing/tribuation period (Revelation 17:6-7).

Revelation 17:6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.7 And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns.

The woman is a city, that sits on the 7 mountains/hills of the beast, iron Rome. Rev 17:18, 9.

 

[Locutus]

The woman is apostate 1st century Jerusalem:

Mat 23:37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee.....

Rev 18:20 Rejoice over her, thou heaven, and ye holy apostles and prophets; for God hath avenged you on her.

 

[Inquistor]

the pretrib rapture folly has nuthin' to do with the kingdom

The pretrib rapture is folly, huh? When Jesus comes like a "thief in the night" ... is that a DIFFERENT TIME than when the feet of Jesus come down on the Mount of Olives, and every eye sees Him, and the mountain splits in two?

 

[Ahwatukee]

Originally Posted by zone

the pretrib rapture folly has nuthin' to do with the kingdom

The pretrib rapture is folly, huh? When Jesus comes like a "thief in the night" ... is that a DIFFERENT TIME than when the feet of Jesus come down on the Mount of Olives, and every eye sees Him, and the mountain splits in two?

Zone an others will never understand until the Lord gathers his church. At that time then they will know that the Lord's promise to gather his church, the blessed hope, will have taken place. They are those who are not longing for the appearing of our great God and savior Jesus Christ. They are those who don't truly believe that Jesus took upon himself God's wrath that every believer deserves satisfying it completely. And because of this we are not appointed to suffer God's coming wrath.

Basically, zone is calling the Lord's promise folly.

 

[louis]

The woman is a city, that sits on the 7 mountains/hills of the beast, iron Rome. Rev 17:18, 9.

Yeah, the woman is a city, who rides on the beast in Rev 13 (Rev 17:3).
Revelation 17:3 [FONT=&quot]So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.[/FONT]

 

[joaniemarie]

Once a believers mind is open to the truth., they see the pattern of the grace of God in Christ traced all through the way God is dealing and will deal with us His beloved sons and daughters. Of course we will not be "partaking" in God's wrath. The wrath and judgment of God was already taken 100% for us in Christ. We have nothing to fear from our Father because we are now in the Son. He has made provision for us in all areas.

This is not a weaklings fearful dreaded attempt and hope of escaping by the skin of our teeth the wrath to come as some accuse. But a profound outworking of faith in the love and watch care God has for us in His Son Jesus.

There is so much to our salvation that we have yet to learn and experience. That is why our salvation is called a so GREAT a salvation. Jesus has done more than we can even imagine. His gift is even unspeakable but we have to keep speaking about it and even though we can't tell it all we have to tell what we keep learning.

 

[louis]

The woman is a city, that sits on the 7 mountains/hills of the beast, iron Rome. Rev 17:18, 9.

Yes, the woman is a city. The city sits upon the beast in Revelation 13 (Revelatiion 17:3).

Revelation 17:3 [FONT=&quot]So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, [/FONT][FONT=&quot]having seven heads and ten horns.[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]

This is the beast who shall rise from the sea (Revelation 13), after the opening of the bottomless pit in Revelation 9 (Revelation 17:8).

Revelation 17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

As the beast had yet to ascend from the bottomless pit at the end of the first century AD when the book of Revelation was written, the woman/city is then not Rome, but instead is a future city which shall rule over the kings of the earth (Revelation 17:18).

Revelation 17:18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

The city that reigneth over the kings of the earth today is the city that makes the economic policy rules the world follows.
It is the city where the sea merchants who are off her shores lament her destruction, because there will be no other city to purchase all their luxury goods (Revelation 18:11; 17-19). Rome is not a seaport.

Revelation 18:11 [FONT=&quot]And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise any more:
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]17 For in one hour so great riches is come to nought. And every shipmaster, and all the company in ships, and sailors, and as many as trade by sea, stood afar off,[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]18 And cried when they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, What city is like unto this great city![/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]19 And they cast dust on their heads, and cried, weeping and wailing, saying, Alas, alas that great city, wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of her costliness! for in one hour is she made desolate.[/FONT]

 

[celib]

Everybody realizes that Matthew 24 is about the fall of Jerusalem, and NOT the end of the world, right? Context context. Matthew 23 into Matthew 24 is the same conversation with the apostles. Note Mt 23:36 "Truly I way to you all these things shall come upon this generation." Also, if it was talking about the end of the world, why on earth would they be told "let him who is on the housetop not go down to get the things out that are in his house..."

Verse 24:14 tells us "And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world for a witness to all the nations, and then the end shall come"

Paul tells us in Col 1:23 ""..if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel that you have heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul was made a minister." At the time of the writing, the inhabited world under heaven had heard. 8 years later the temple fell. In their generation--70 a.d.

Can't believe anybody would believe this, two different subjects, in Matt.23 Jesus is talking to the kenites and all the woes starting in verse 13 apply s to them, in Matt. 24 the question that was asked is when will the end of this world age be, not when the end of Jerusalem be. In Col. 1:23 from the scripture the word IF indicates the condition being unfulfilled at that time. God bless

 

[Lucy-Pevensie]

The city that reigneth over the kings of the earth today is the city that makes the economic policy rules the world follows.
It is the city where the sea merchants who are off her shores lament her destruction, because there will be no other city to purchase all their luxury goods (Revelation 18:11; 17-19). Rome is not a seaport.

Revelation 18:11 And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise any more:
17 For in one hour so great riches is come to nought. And every shipmaster, and all the company in ships, and sailors, and as many as trade by sea, stood afar off,
18 And cried when they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, What city is like unto this great city!
19 And they cast dust on their heads, and cried, weeping and wailing, saying, Alas, alas that great city, wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of her costliness! for in one hour is she made desolate.

I believe the vision of the woman, the city of Babylon, is a religious system.
Her widespread trade is false religion.
Revelation uses common prophetic themes from the Old Testament.
I see her as the prostitute (religion) which rides the beast (empire)

 

[iamsoandso]

Nothing like an out of context verse to establish nothing.

(Mark 13:9 KJV) But take heed to yourselves: for they shall deliver you up to councils; and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten: and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them.


Anybody see any believers being beaten in the synagogues?

Markus said,lol

No really if it's fair to ask that question in one camp then if you consider whats being discussed then if the events taking place now ,floods,fires,algae blooms,earthquakes,tsunamis,wars ect. are at all in fulfilment to this then (if),,,

(If), these current events are being poured out on those who "received the name,number or worshipped the image" Rev.14:9,Rev.13:17,Rev. 20:4, Rev.19:20 ect. ...

(then) that would mean that the man of sin is in the world now and in power,and his mark,name,number and image are at current being received/worshipped by the peoples of the world and none of them know who he is or what the mark or image is.

So if these things are the things of Revelation and they are at current being poured out on those who worshipped the image or received the name then each and every person in the world today has missed the rapture and have been "left behind".

It's the sort of question that applies to both camps right?,lol

 

[MattforJesus]

I believe the vision of the woman, the city of Babylon, is a religious system. Her widespread trade is false religion.
Revelation uses common prophetic themes from the Old Testament.
I see her as the religion (prostitute) which rides the beast (empire)

That is correct,for she represents all the false religions of the world.

Babylon will never have physical dominion again,but her life was prolonged for a season and time,which means her ways are still on earth,and no system before the Roman Empire will have dominion.Babylon in Revelation is in spirit.

Babylon represents human religion,anything goes multiculturism.

Babylon rode on eagle's wings when king Nebuchadnezzar acknowledged the God of Israel,and proclaimed throughout his kingdom to acknowledge the God of Israel for He is the greatest god of the gods.

But when he died and his son took the throne he knew what his father believed,but went against it,and the wings were plucked,and then Babylon was known as the kingdom of man,which the beast kingdom in Revelation represents human religion,and the kingdom of man.

The beginning of the end.

1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
1Ti 4:2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
1Ti 4:3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
1Ti 4:4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:
1Ti 4:5 For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.

The new age movement interpretation of the Bible based on spiritual evolution through nature,and exalts people,and Jesus is not Lord and Savior,but a good teacher.

Forbid to marry for a man and a woman for population reduction,and command to abstain from meats,nature worship.

2Ti 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
2Ti 4:4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

The new age movement is the future for this sinful world,and will develop in to a unified religious system,and any belief not compatible will not be tolerated,and a hate crime to try to convert someone to their belief,and will be the time the world will not endure the truth of the Bible but according to their own lusts,power through nature.

Whoever heads up the unified religious system,the spiritual leader,and headquarters,will represent mystery Babylon,and all religions will be interpreted according to the new age movement,which will make sense to the world for it is based on evolution,and people can still evolve.

The new age movement,unified religious system,will pave the way to the beast kingdom in Revelation,and the man of sin,New Age Christ,will convince the world that he harnessed the power of nature,obtained power,evolved,and will share this power with all who follow him,which he is of the occult,nature worship,witchcraft,and does not regard any god,but in his estate he will honor the God of forces,or the power of nature as his higher power.

Rev 17:15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.
Rev 17:16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.

The ten horns is the world split in to ten sections with a leader in each section,and the unified religious system will operate for three and one half years,and the man of sin will claim to be God,or highest authority,and they will get rid of the unified religious system for they have no need for her anymore.

The Roman Empire does not lose their dominion until God puts her down in which the Caucasian led nations come together,including America,which they will mingle themselves with the seed of men,so who could the spiritual leader,and headquarters be that heads it up.

Babylon is responsible for all that is slain on earth,for a person either belongs to the kingdom of God,or Babylon,the kingdom of man.

 

[abcdef]

Yes, the woman is a city. The city sits upon the beast in Revelation 13 (Revelatiion 17:3).

Revelation 17:3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.

The beast is the iron legs of Dan. 2, and the 4th beast of Dan. 7.

This is the beast who shall rise from the sea (Revelation 13),

Civil Rome rises from the sea of the gentile nations.

The earth beast is the religious Rome, Caesar worship (worship the creation).

after the opening of the bottomless pit in Revelation 9 (Revelation 17:8).

The story of the little scroll ends at the 7th trumpet.

Rev 12, begins describing the interaction of the beast over Israel.

Rev 13, is describing the beast in more detail.

All the beasts, sea beast, earth beast, dragon with 7 heads, scarlet beast, are Rome.

Revelation 17:

8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

As the beast had yet to ascend from the bottomless pit at the end of the first century AD when the book of Revelation was written, the woman/city is then not Rome, but instead is a future city which shall rule over the kings of the earth (Revelation 17:18).

5 have fallen, one is. That means that the beast was present at the time of the writing of the Rev.

Revelation 17:18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

At the time of the writing it was Rome.

The city that reigneth over the kings of the earth today is the city that makes the economic policy rules the world follows.

It's still Rome, he has a kingdom, and a people. It's not necessarily an economic issue.

It is the city where the sea merchants who are off her shores lament her destruction, because there will be no other city to purchase all their luxury goods (Revelation 18:11; 17-19). Rome is not a seaport.

Revelation 18:11 And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise any more:
17 For in one hour so great riches is come to nought. And every shipmaster, and all the company in ships, and sailors, and as many as trade by sea, stood afar off,
18 And cried when they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, What city is like unto this great city!
19 And they cast dust on their heads, and cried, weeping and wailing, saying, Alas, alas that great city, wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of her costliness! for in one hour is she made desolate.

Rome sits on the river Tiber that links it to the sea.

 

[iamsoandso]

There is no woman riding the four beast in the vision in Daniel.

Day1,day2,day3,day4,day5(6th is) and the 7th has not yet come but will and continue just a short time and go into perdition,the 8th is of the 7,,,"this generation shall not pass...",,,it's a clock.

The beast that was and was not yet is was in the pit in the sixth day of the generations of the heaven and the earth(Genesis 2:4).


One beast rises from the sea,another from the earth,another ascends from the pit,,,same beast ?