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R
[SUP]1 Cor 13:8 [/SUP]Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
What do you mean it has biblically ceased? What are you trying to say exactly? That people should no longer speak in tongues?
The gift of speaking in tongues is for EVERYONE. Not a certain group of people.
It edifies you. It is GOOD for you. It is encouraged.
It is not something that only a select group of people used to do and is no longer "required" as though God would give a gift like that to some people but not to others.
Ecstatic utterances? You don't speak in tongues do you bro.
Inter testament?
Do you even know what you are saying?
God bless.
What do you mean it has biblically ceased? What are you trying to say exactly? That people should no longer speak in tongues?
The gift of speaking in tongues is for EVERYONE. Not a certain group of people.
It edifies you. It is GOOD for you. It is encouraged.
It is not something that only a select group of people used to do and is no longer "required" as though God would give a gift like that to some people but not to others.
Ecstatic utterances? You don't speak in tongues do you bro.
Inter testament?
Do you even know what you are saying?
God bless.
K
Look at the story from Acts 3:19 of the lame man that Peter and John healed.
The story says the lame man had been that way from birth, and everyday his family laid him at the gate of the temple. This means that he would have been there when the Lord went in and out of the temple, so why did the Lord not heal this man during His earthly ministry? It could be because his faith was not right in the Lord yet, or it could be other reasons yet the scriptures do not give the details. They only say he was that way from birth and was laid at the temple gate everyday to receive alms from those who entered. Jesus never healed him during His ministry as He would have passed this man when He went in and out of the temple. This man was not healed tell Peter and John did it.....
K
Its simply a prayer language when we have no words.
when we have no words.
Hi Kaylagirl. Let me preface this by saying that I genuinely like you and do believe you to be a dear sister in Christ. But I have to ask why our Father would utilize a "heavenly prayer language" for those times when we have no words ... when He already knows our hearts, our intents, our desires and our tears ? How is one edified by uttering things he/she admittedly does not understand ? Many are the time(s) when I have poured my heart out to our Father. And never was a single word or utterance necessary. Anyways my friend. I won't engage much in this convo. Not sure why I've even said as much as I have. Those of us so inclined to believe something ... or not ... won't be swayed by mine or anybody else's words. God bless
M
If I'm being completely honest here, it's difficult for those such as myself who do not speak in tongues to understand it fully, how it works, what the benefits are etc. As someone else pointed out it's only Biblical if it interpreted for others and how often does that happen???
I would say that 80% in my church speak/pray in tongues at some time - I'm in the 20%. To me it's all a little bewildering...I don't fully understand it and I refuse to fake it - I don't believe in everyone's case it is in fact gift though I'm pretty convinced it is very real in others.
I would say that 80% in my church speak/pray in tongues at some time - I'm in the 20%. To me it's all a little bewildering...I don't fully understand it and I refuse to fake it - I don't believe in everyone's case it is in fact gift though I'm pretty convinced it is very real in others.
R
It edifies your soul. It edifies you spiritually. It strengthens you. It builds you up. In ways you cannot fathom. Check this out. It will hopefully open your eyes on how speaking in tongues can literally "build you up" and strengthen you in Christ.
Yes, it is a beautiful, beautiful language (even if it sounds weird) and when you do it God smiles and satan runs for miles.
Its simply a prayer language when we have no words.
when we have no words.
K
I understand that, but then again the lame man that Peter and John healed in Acts 3:1-9 was not asking to be healed at that time either. He was asking for alms (money), and not healing. Still it remains that not all that the Lord came across was healed by Him, because of faith, not asking, or so on....
The Lord did not go around willy nilly and just heal everybody He passed, and God who has no limitations could have through Jesus healed everybody rather they asked or not.
This same can be said about sins, Jesus died on the cross for the sins of all men, but are all sins automatically forgiven, cleansed in all people? No, as those who seek to be healed and forgiven of their sins need to come to Him in faith first. And then through that faith they will repent and get baptized in His name to receive that remission.
Back to the topic at hand though the gifts like I said are very much real and exist today, but they are widely misused and in some cases are charlatans who are performing fake miracles for financial gain and self recognition. I have personally seen the true workers of the gifts from the Holy Spirit, as well as the fake. I also have experienced personally the healing gift of the Holy Spirit within myself and others.
Still not sure why I came to the Family Forum to find a BDF discussion in full swing!
I spoke in tongues when I was first saved. It took me a few years to realize that what was going on was 90% fake, 10% wishful thinking! So I stopped, and wondered why I ever thought I was speaking in an unknown tongue!
I pray in English, and occasionally in French. I do understand some German, Spanish, and read the Hebrew and Greek. (Brother Marc, I would love to be able to pray in Hebrew! What a blessing to pray in Biblical languages)
Other than that, I think this is a doctrinal divide, and I am just glad I left that excess all behind, and go to churches where people worship with both their heads and their hearts!
I spoke in tongues when I was first saved. It took me a few years to realize that what was going on was 90% fake, 10% wishful thinking! So I stopped, and wondered why I ever thought I was speaking in an unknown tongue!
I pray in English, and occasionally in French. I do understand some German, Spanish, and read the Hebrew and Greek. (Brother Marc, I would love to be able to pray in Hebrew! What a blessing to pray in Biblical languages)
Other than that, I think this is a doctrinal divide, and I am just glad I left that excess all behind, and go to churches where people worship with both their heads and their hearts!
I can speak in tongues, by the grace of God. I experienced that first when I was about 11 years old.
At the church I am going to now, I don't think I've heard a message in tongues and interpretation since I've been there. I don't think I've heard a prophecy spoken out in church, either, except by the pastor. Growing up, Pentecostals would often have both in their meetings. But the church I go to isn't from a Pentecostal denomination and it seems like some of the churches that believe in the gifts that aren't Pentecostal and even some that are, have this idea that 'decently and in order' means everything has to come from the pulpit. That's totally unbiblical according to I Corinthians 14 (which doesn't mention a pulpit, but mentions 'every one of you' speaking or singing.) I don't think people think through it. People need to be taught that it is okay and normative. It could be that God isn't moving people to prophesy, but I believe certain people in the congregation are gifted this way, and I know one is.
I'm sure there are still Pentecostal churches where the 'culture' allows for messages in tongues and interpretation.
There are also churches that practice everyone speaking in tongues at the same time with no intepretation. I don't see that as Biblical according to I Corinthians 14:27-28.
It edifies. I don't have any experience with getting superhuman strength from speaking in tongues. I can't say whether I am smarter now than I would have been if I had never spoken in tongues, but not everyone who speaks in tongues seems super smart.
Part of it is tradition. They think church is a pulpit-pastor thing with a long sermon and no one is allowed to talk except whoever is behind the pulpit. A pulipit in a New Testament church and the pastors' long sermon aren't taught in scripture.
And part of it is people don't have these gifts. If someone can speak in tongues, does that mean he should just 'go for it' in church? If there is no interpreter, he is to be silent.
you can.
If you can't speak in tongues, and want to, let me know and I'll be happy to help you attain this wonderful gift that God has given us. Although I'm not sure how I'll do it across here but by George I'll give it a go!
About the idea that only the Holy Spirit can understand speaking in tongues, that wasn't the case in Acts 2. I tend to take 'no man understandeth him' in I Corinthians 14 as a kind of thumb description of the way tongues typically work in church. Acts 2 situations can happen.
I've come across about at least 4 references to people hearing a language they knew 'in tongues' at the Azusa Street, (Valdez's 'Fire on Azusa', 'The Comforter has Come', Seymour's newsletters which tells of tongues in Russian, and an old interview on YouTube with a woman who was a child at the revival.) There have been numerous other accounts of this. I knew one man who experienced this on an Indian reservation and I met a woman who prayed in tongues at church and some folks from India recognized it.
At the church I am going to now, I don't think I've heard a message in tongues and interpretation since I've been there. I don't think I've heard a prophecy spoken out in church, either, except by the pastor. Growing up, Pentecostals would often have both in their meetings. But the church I go to isn't from a Pentecostal denomination and it seems like some of the churches that believe in the gifts that aren't Pentecostal and even some that are, have this idea that 'decently and in order' means everything has to come from the pulpit. That's totally unbiblical according to I Corinthians 14 (which doesn't mention a pulpit, but mentions 'every one of you' speaking or singing.) I don't think people think through it. People need to be taught that it is okay and normative. It could be that God isn't moving people to prophesy, but I believe certain people in the congregation are gifted this way, and I know one is.
I'm sure there are still Pentecostal churches where the 'culture' allows for messages in tongues and interpretation.
There are also churches that practice everyone speaking in tongues at the same time with no intepretation. I don't see that as Biblical according to I Corinthians 14:27-28.
It edifies. I don't have any experience with getting superhuman strength from speaking in tongues.
I can't say whether I am smarter now than I would have been if I had never spoken in tongues, but not everyone who speaks in tongues seems super smart. Part of it is tradition. They think church is a pulpit-pastor thing with a long sermon and no one is allowed to talk except whoever is behind the pulpit. A pulipit in a New Testament church and the pastors' long sermon aren't taught in scripture.
And part of it is people don't have these gifts. If someone can speak in tongues, does that mean he should just 'go for it' in church? If there is no interpreter, he is to be silent.
you can.
If you can't speak in tongues, and want to, let me know and I'll be happy to help you attain this wonderful gift that God has given us. Although I'm not sure how I'll do it across here but by George I'll give it a go!
About the idea that only the Holy Spirit can understand speaking in tongues, that wasn't the case in Acts 2. I tend to take 'no man understandeth him' in I Corinthians 14 as a kind of thumb description of the way tongues typically work in church. Acts 2 situations can happen.
I've come across about at least 4 references to people hearing a language they knew 'in tongues' at the Azusa Street, (Valdez's 'Fire on Azusa', 'The Comforter has Come', Seymour's newsletters which tells of tongues in Russian, and an old interview on YouTube with a woman who was a child at the revival.) There have been numerous other accounts of this. I knew one man who experienced this on an Indian reservation and I met a woman who prayed in tongues at church and some folks from India recognized it.
Yes you are correct, tongues ceased.
Incorrect, tongues are a sign and signs are for Israel. Joel tells us that Israel will see these signs when Christ returns. They were never intended for Gentiles. So is reading your bible and fellowshipping with God. Your understanding of this subject is very limited by your obvious bias. You are incorrect in your understanding of the subject matter.
Neither do you but I know the difference.
Big word, compound word. The period between the OT and the NT. The time during which the NT church was established. The time during which the NT revelation was given to the apostles who penned it down for us today. Do I need and interpreter? The English of the colonies is not that different than the Kings English.
Do not tempt God. God is not mocked. God is able to perform miracles but God is not obligated to preform miracles. Far too many today trifle with familiar spirits. The spirits are not of God.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Incorrect, tongues are a sign and signs are for Israel. Joel tells us that Israel will see these signs when Christ returns. They were never intended for Gentiles. So is reading your bible and fellowshipping with God. Your understanding of this subject is very limited by your obvious bias. You are incorrect in your understanding of the subject matter.
Ecstatic utterances? You don't speak in tongues do you bro.
Big word, compound word. The period between the OT and the NT. The time during which the NT church was established. The time during which the NT revelation was given to the apostles who penned it down for us today. Do I need and interpreter? The English of the colonies is not that different than the Kings English.
Do not tempt God. God is not mocked. God is able to perform miracles but God is not obligated to preform miracles. Far too many today trifle with familiar spirits. The spirits are not of God.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
K
What is your proof that the gentiles do not have, or they were not intended for Gentile believers ?
Paul tells gentile believers to seek out and ask for the spiritual gifts from the Holy Spirit, and then tells them how to use them properly. Then the other thing is that 1 Corinthians 13 is widely misused to say the gifts do not exist any more, as the chapter is about love. And Paul is saying there that without love all things are worthless, not edifying, and will be proven to not come to pass as they are not from God. Paul says they will cease when that which is perfect comes, and this is not speaking of the bible (canon). Nothing says that, as that would be interjecting what is not there.
The context of the chapter is love, so when Paul says that which is perfect comes he is saying perfect love comes.
There is still strife, divisions, contentions, hatred, discrimination, and so on in the world, so the perfect love that comes at the New Heaven and New Earth when all evil is taken away and all tears of sadness wiped from our eyes by the Lord will all gifts cease as they will not be needed any more because all things will be fulfilled.
Tongues are a sign. Gentiles seek after wisdom not signs. Signs are for Israel. Tongues to Israel are a sign of impending judgment. They are associated with Israel being carried into captivity when Jehovah God judges them for their rebellious behavior. A little study would reveal this to you.
Only three sign gifts have ended. The rest of the gifts of the Holy Spirit are still in operation but those three have ended.
The obvious lack of discipleship in the church today is why believers are immature in the faith. They are overgrown by the weeds of this world and unable to mature for the Lord.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Only three sign gifts have ended. The rest of the gifts of the Holy Spirit are still in operation but those three have ended.
The obvious lack of discipleship in the church today is why believers are immature in the faith. They are overgrown by the weeds of this world and unable to mature for the Lord.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
R
Huhh???? What do you mean neither do I?
I DO and I CAN (speak in tongues). TYVM.
How can you sit there and say that I don't when I started this thread to tell you that I do.
How can you even say that I don't when you have never met me?
I CAN speak in tongues Roger, and I DO! (Admittedly not as much as I probably should).
I CAN speak in tongues. It was a gift that was given to me when I was 12 years old. You wasn't there when that happened and you have not been given this gift so you are coming across as though because you don't have it (which you can) then anyone else that does have it is wrong in doing it?
Speaking in tongues is not something that was just for OT people only.
Speaking in tongues is a gift of the Holy Spirit!
1 Cor 13:8 doesn't mean that speaking in tongues should not be done!
I'm not "bias".
You think that Christians shouldn't speak in tongues?
You think that this was a gift only for a select group of OT people?
Roger, I've read through your previous posts and you like to pick people apart as though they are wrong and you are right and that's that.
You also end all your posts with "For the cause of Christ".
But it's not for Christ's cause though is it, it's for YOUR cause Roger.
You are not doing Christs will, you are doing your own.
Instead of thinking that you are right and everyone else is wrong, try taking a neutral position for once.
Just because you can't understand something or that someone is doing something you're not, doesn't make it wrong.
I DO and I CAN (speak in tongues). TYVM.
How can you sit there and say that I don't when I started this thread to tell you that I do.
How can you even say that I don't when you have never met me?
I CAN speak in tongues Roger, and I DO! (Admittedly not as much as I probably should).
I CAN speak in tongues. It was a gift that was given to me when I was 12 years old. You wasn't there when that happened and you have not been given this gift so you are coming across as though because you don't have it (which you can) then anyone else that does have it is wrong in doing it?
Speaking in tongues is not something that was just for OT people only.
Speaking in tongues is a gift of the Holy Spirit!
1 Cor 13:8 doesn't mean that speaking in tongues should not be done!
I'm not "bias".
You think that Christians shouldn't speak in tongues?
You think that this was a gift only for a select group of OT people?
Roger, I've read through your previous posts and you like to pick people apart as though they are wrong and you are right and that's that.
You also end all your posts with "For the cause of Christ".
But it's not for Christ's cause though is it, it's for YOUR cause Roger.
You are not doing Christs will, you are doing your own.
Instead of thinking that you are right and everyone else is wrong, try taking a neutral position for once.
Just because you can't understand something or that someone is doing something you're not, doesn't make it wrong.
K
Tongues are one of the gifts from the Holy Spirit and not just a sign, and Paul mentioned them as such and told Gentile believers how they are to be used.
Which three gifts do you think have ended ???
Prophecy has not ended as the bible clearly says even in the end days their will be prophecy, healing has not ended as I have been both the recipient of the healing of the Holy Spirit and also have by the Holy Spirit healed another through me.
Tongues have not ended as I showed previously because Paul told Gentiles how they were to use that gift properly.