Limiting family size

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iraasuup

Guest
#41
I would definitely not support it. I am in a big family and generations before me have had big families and I would like to continue it. I don't really have my reasons yet of why I want a big family but for now I do. So the answer to your question, no. That infringes on our freedom. In China, they either kill or put unwanted kids up for adoption; I would not like that to happen in America.

I come a big family my parents have 6 together and my mom has 2 and my dad has 1 child outside of their marriage. So the thing about people shouldn't have 10 kids is understandable if they can't support them, but if they can that's fine. I also agree with whoever said some people shouldn't have kids.
In this post you say you want a big family, and that you don't want to see unwanted children killed...yet in another thread you SUPPORT abortion?

I'm confused. You contradict your whole abortion argument with this very post. Maybe you should do some thorough research on these topics before you make a definite decision. :)
 
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Phoenix

Guest
#42
God said be fruitful and multiply. this was a command. people in my small church have big families. and as for abortion. God hates child sacrifices to idols. but you might be thinking. well we don't sacrifice children to statues. think of it for a moment. the command thou shal not have any her God's before me. it is not referring to other gods but to idols. like your job,comfort,wealth. so when someone wants to get an abortion because they cannot live the way they used to, or because they won't be able to spend money on themselves, or because they still want to party. those are the idols of today that we are sacrificing children to.
 
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tryingtofindhim

Guest
#43
In this post you say you want a big family, and that you don't want to see unwanted children killed...yet in another thread you SUPPORT abortion?

I'm confused. You contradict your whole abortion argument with this very post. Maybe you should do some thorough research on these topics before you make a definite decision. :)
I said I only support abortion in certain situations, but I did say I don't believe it is murder. I would never have an abortion myself
 
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iraasuup

Guest
#44
I said I only support abortion in certain situations, but I did say I don't believe it is murder. I would never have an abortion myself

Okay so let me get this straight.

You only support it in certain situations (whatever those might be), yet claim it's not murder, and would never have one yourself. This begs the question...

What if you found yourself in one of those 'certain situations' where you support it, would your opinion of 'never having an abortion' yourself change? Would you then change your mind, and justify it based on the 'certain situation'?

Just curious...
 
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tryingtofindhim

Guest
#45
Okay so let me get this straight.

You only support it in certain situations (whatever those might be), yet claim it's not murder, and would never have one yourself. This begs the question...

What if you found yourself in one of those 'certain situations' where you support it, would your opinion of 'never having an abortion' yourself change? Would you then change your mind, and justify it based on the 'certain situation'?

Just curious...
Certain situations I'm talking about is rape and young teenagers. I refuse to have sex before I get married, but if I was raped I hope God would help me be strong enough to be able to have the baby and but him up for adoption. I am also changing that I don't believe its murder thing. I am in the middle I'm not sure anymore; I am not so definite as I was before. :)
 
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jcspartan

Guest
#46
This is an issue my wife and I wrestle with. So, I thought I would toss a few thoughts out.

A lot of what drives an answer to this goes to cultural values that we have come to accept over the years. God wants us to reflect his love to the world around us. One of the most profound ways to do that is through our families. Increasingly, the West as a whole has bought into the idea of a way of life that abdicates Christian family values. By having large families we teach our children how to be parents without being as isolated into nuclear families. Many people in the West think it is better to let the State raise our kids in many cases rather than build the faith based networks that support the family. Between day care and elementary school our kids spend more time away from family than with it.

The poplulation issue is largely exaggerated. Russia, Japan, most of Europe have declining populations. The parts of North America and Europe that have stable populations do so largely as a result of immegration. India is growing. The Muslim world is growing. Africa is holding steady largely because of war and disease. China is growing but not for much longer since more girls are aborted than men and there is not a replacement population. South America is growing slightly. That means the only significant growth is taking place in non-Christian families in places in need of Gods love.

Historically, how many great people of faith came from large families?

I debate the merit of birth control (we use it) and wrestle with how much is too much and whether God wants us to have more. But having said that, with five kids already, my money still goes to a lot that is not a need. I am debt free, go to movies, have hobbies etc. The issue is not the money and whether I can provide food, shelter, education and such. It is more along the lines of how can my wife maintain emotional health.
 
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ChristopherMichael

Guest
#47
We have fewer anglo saxon babies born and more people coming from China, so our government will pay you some money if you have a child , so that our racial proportions are relatively even or lean towards caucasian.
I'm not familiar with your laws, but I doubt any country could float a program that says "Free money to families with white babies!". It could just be, like Germany or some other countries, that your government sees the value in having children.

I think history points to the fact that most social problems caused by burgeoning populations are also solved by some of the brilliant minds in that population. Like the development of synthetic nitrates for crop fertilizer. On the reverse, countires with unhealthy demographics, like Japan, have yet to fix their social ills, despite massive amounts of money and research being invested.

- Topher
 
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jcspartan

Guest
#48
As a general rule, when God said children are a blessing and said to His people to go forth and multiply it was in a world of no centralized heating, no running water, no TV, no health networks--like insurance, hospitals, state funded health care, no baby monitors, and for the average person it was in a world of animals and people sharing space and living with dirt floors. There were no fire departments, no police and no welfare or soup kitchens. Clothes were hand made and most of each day was spent on some type of subsistance living.

I am not advocating returning to that standard but...

God directed Men and Women to come together and build families in a hostile uncertain world. Although the extended families were bigger than is often the case today the idea of knowing all the answers and having a scripted life set in place was just not a reality. More women and children died in child birth than now.

Despite the poverty that exists now we live in the most prosperous time in history and the people most able to have children and provide for them largely are not doing so.

God said children were a blessing and yet now we don't really believe that. Having children drives His people into the arms of God because it reveals just how little control we have of things.

There is something to spreading faith biologically as well. This is working quite well for Mormons; not just in the USA but, world wide. It is also working for Muslims. Within 50 years very large areas that were once largely Christian will not be. Areas that were once Christian have already been conceded to secular humanists. Christians are at least partially abdicating their God given role in the word by not having children.

Just some thoughts
 
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Ancilla

Guest
#49
I'm not familiar with your laws, but I doubt any country could float a program that says "Free money to families with white babies!".
Don't laugh, that's probably what a lot of people believe that Christians want. The so-called "religious right" favours laws that favour white births. I don't have the stats in front of me (I could track them down if you really wanted to) but I'm pretty that white women are more likely to have abortions and black and latina women are more likely to loose a baby for lack of pre-natal care because they can't afford it because you guys are in desperate need of health care reform which so many Christians oppose.
 
Jan 8, 2009
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#50
I'm not familiar with your laws, but I doubt any country could float a program that says "Free money to families with white babies!". It could just be, like Germany or some other countries, that your government sees the value in having children.

I think history points to the fact that most social problems caused by burgeoning populations are also solved by some of the brilliant minds in that population. Like the development of synthetic nitrates for crop fertilizer. On the reverse, countires with unhealthy demographics, like Japan, have yet to fix their social ills, despite massive amounts of money and research being invested.
Well, the government would not put it like that. They won't give the money only to white babies but any race that is born here and is australia citizen - but that is the real intention - to encourage more domestic births from the predominantly caucasian population, than to have the population growing and sustained and perhaps even overtaken by immigration alone.

Australia in general is a very traditional value based country, and most people here and the government would like us to retain our majority caucasian heritage. Some no doubt would say that's racist, but others may say it's practical. Still, Australia is more multi cultural and accepting of all people and cultures than most countries in the world.
 
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ChristopherMichael

Guest
#51
Don't laugh, that's probably what a lot of people believe that Christians want. The so-called "religious right" favours laws that favour white births. I don't have the stats in front of me (I could track them down if you really wanted to) but I'm pretty that white women are more likely to have abortions and black and latina women are more likely to loose a baby for lack of pre-natal care because they can't afford it because you guys are in desperate need of health care reform which so many Christians oppose.
Other way around, at least for African Americans in the US. There are about the same number of African American abortions as there have been children delivered. Yeah, so like one of every two black children conceived is aborted. Yipes! Margaret Sanger, the lady behind the founding of Planned Parenthood in the US, was an overt racist who is on the recording confirming that they targeted minority groups for abortions. You can even find news articles once in a while about Planned Parenthood doing some unbelievable racist thing. Craazzzzy.

As for the religious right, in the US that's mostly considered to be Evangelical Christians, who do tend to push for pro-family and pro-life legislation. They are mostly white, but I think it's a big jump to say that they push for legislation to make more white babies.

Not sure how it is in Canada, but that's how they roll here.

God bless you!
- Topher
 
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megsie

Guest
#52
well i think if u can afford to have kids and feed them and care for them properly have as many as u want, and if u can't have them yourself and can afford to adopt why not? and if u dont want kids then people shouldnt feel pressured to do so. i know one day i would like to have kids, if i don't get married i would consider adopting, admitedly id prefer to be married but if it means i can give a child a stable home then so be it!
 
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Acce

Guest
#53
I don't support a limit to the amount of children in a family, I think its really ridiculous actually, for me personally I hope to have 3 or 4 if I can.

I think a lot of people especially in Australia as Iraasup said, because they get a Baby Bonus for children, but they never think about the fact that the money they get will never ever be enough to support them and their babies.

Just don't think its right at all to limit everyone, in fact its quite horrible, we should be able to have the choice to be fruitful and multiply!