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Dec 26, 2012
5,853
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#41
While I agree with everything you say Sarah perhaps the question is, was the child an epileptic due to the Demon within him? Was the fact that he was possessed what caused his epilepsy? The answer is a most definite YES! Is it claiming however that all epilepsy, or other diseases caused by demons? I do not believe that is the case. However can a possessed individual have an ailment that is caused by possession? I do believe so as evident in the bible and the scripture you so kindly pointed out to us.

God Bless!
I agree with everything you said,but to say the demons do not possess people either is wrong. Otherwise we do have a bit of a problem with the fact the Jesus did have conversations with demons from time to time. And if we leave that fact out it makes Jesus either a liar or delusional. And He was neither.
 

Nautilus

Senior Member
Jun 29, 2012
6,488
53
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#42
Are you saying Jesus is a liar because He is the one that rebuked the demons, and you need to remember the demons recognized Jesus. Don't forget Jesus also knew the difference between those who had illnesses,other physical problems and those who did have demons.

Matthew 17

14 When they came to the crowd, a man approached Jesus and knelt before him. 15 “Lord, have mercy on my son,” he said. “He has seizures and is suffering greatly. He often falls into the fire or into the water. 16 I brought him to your disciples, but they could not heal him.”
17 “You unbelieving and perverse generation,” Jesus replied, “how long shall I stay with you? How long shall I put up with you? Bring the boy here to me.” 18 Jesus rebuked the demon, and it came out of the boy, and he was healed at that moment.
19 Then the disciples came to Jesus in private and asked, “Why couldn’t we drive it out?”
20 He replied, “Because you have so little faith. Truly I tell you, if you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this mountain, ‘Move from here to there,’ and it will move. Nothing will be impossible for you.”
so because atthew wrote he rebuked the demon that settles it? I already said they viewed diseases as demons especially ones they didnt understand/ Matthew is just using the words of the time to convey the actions.
 
Dec 26, 2012
5,853
137
0
#43
so because atthew wrote he rebuked the demon that settles it? I already said they viewed diseases as demons especially ones they didnt understand/ Matthew is just using the words of the time to convey the actions.
Nautilus,

You have to leave out the fact the demons had conversations with Jesus at times. Remember the man with the demons that Jesus cast out into a herd of pigs?

Matthew 8

28 When he arrived at the other side in the region of the Gadarenes,[c] two demon-possessed men coming from the tombs met him. They were so violent that no one could pass that way. 29 “What do you want with us, Son of God?” they shouted. “Have you come here to torture us before the appointed time?”
30 Some distance from them a large herd of pigs was feeding. 31 The demons begged Jesus, “If you drive us out, send us into the herd of pigs.”
32 He said to them, “Go!” So they came out and went into the pigs, and the whole herd rushed down the steep bank into the lake and died in the water. 33 Those tending the pigs ran off, went into the town and reported all this, including what had happened to the demon-possessed men. 34 Then the whole town went out to meet Jesus. And when they saw him, they pleaded with him to leave their region.

So are you saying Jesus did not know the difference?

Mark 1

21 They went to Capernaum, and when the Sabbath came, Jesus went into the synagogue and began to teach. 22 The people were amazed at his teaching, because he taught them as one who had authority, not as the teachers of the law. 23 Just then a man in their synagogue who was possessed by an impure spirit cried out,24 “What do you want with us, Jesus of Nazareth? Have you come to destroy us? I know who you are—the Holy One of God!”
25 “Be quiet!” said Jesus sternly. “Come out of him!” 26 The impure spirit shook the man violently and came out of him with a shriek.
27 The people were all so amazed that they asked each other, “What is this? A new teaching—and with authority! He even gives orders to impure spirits and they obey him.” 28 News about him spread quickly over the whole region of Galilee.
[h=3]Jesus Heals Many[/h]29 As soon as they left the synagogue, they went with James and John to the home of Simon and Andrew. 30 Simon’s mother-in-law was in bed with a fever, and they immediately told Jesus about her.31 So he went to her, took her hand and helped her up. The fever left her and she began to wait on them.
32That evening after sunset the people brought to Jesus all the sick and demon-possessed. 33 The whole town gathered at the door,34 and Jesus healed many who had various diseases. He also drove out many demons, but he would not let the demons speak because they knew who he was.

So are you saying Jesus did not know the difference between a demon who could SPEAK and knew who Jesus is and those who had a disease? Do you know of any diseases that can speak? Can you find me any doctor that knows of a disease that can speak? Isn't that kind of odd if it's suppose to be a disease that Jesus commands it to be silent?




 
D

danschance

Guest
#44
Nautilus,

You have to leave out the fact the demons had conversations with Jesus at times. Remember the man with the demons that Jesus cast out into a herd of pigs?

Matthew 8

28 When he arrived at the other side in the region of the Gadarenes,[c] two demon-possessed men coming from the tombs met him. They were so violent that no one could pass that way. 29 “What do you want with us, Son of God?” they shouted. “Have you come here to torture us before the appointed time?”
30 Some distance from them a large herd of pigs was feeding. 31 The demons begged Jesus, “If you drive us out, send us into the herd of pigs.”
32 He said to them, “Go!” So they came out and went into the pigs, and the whole herd rushed down the steep bank into the lake and died in the water. 33 Those tending the pigs ran off, went into the town and reported all this, including what had happened to the demon-possessed men. 34 Then the whole town went out to meet Jesus. And when they saw him, they pleaded with him to leave their region.

So are you saying Jesus did not know the difference?

Mark 1

21 They went to Capernaum, and when the Sabbath came, Jesus went into the synagogue and began to teach. 22 The people were amazed at his teaching, because he taught them as one who had authority, not as the teachers of the law. 23 Just then a man in their synagogue who was possessed by an impure spirit cried out,24 “What do you want with us, Jesus of Nazareth? Have you come to destroy us? I know who you are—the Holy One of God!”
25 “Be quiet!” said Jesus sternly. “Come out of him!” 26 The impure spirit shook the man violently and came out of him with a shriek.
27 The people were all so amazed that they asked each other, “What is this? A new teaching—and with authority! He even gives orders to impure spirits and they obey him.” 28 News about him spread quickly over the whole region of Galilee.
Jesus Heals Many

29 As soon as they left the synagogue, they went with James and John to the home of Simon and Andrew. 30 Simon’s mother-in-law was in bed with a fever, and they immediately told Jesus about her.31 So he went to her, took her hand and helped her up. The fever left her and she began to wait on them.
32That evening after sunset the people brought to Jesus all the sick and demon-possessed. 33 The whole town gathered at the door,34 and Jesus healed many who had various diseases. He also drove out many demons, but he would not let the demons speak because they knew who he was.

So are you saying Jesus did not know the difference between a demon who could SPEAK and knew who Jesus is and those who had a disease? Do you know of any diseases that can speak? Can you find me any doctor that knows of a disease that can speak? Isn't that kind of odd if it's suppose to be a disease that Jesus commands it to be silent?



Sarrah, you have an interesting point. Diseases do not speak or have conversations. Nautilus believes they explained away diseases by assuming they were demons, but that view ignores the context.
 
D

danschance

Guest
#45
While I agree with everything you say Sarah perhaps the question is, was the child an epileptic due to the Demon within him? Was the fact that he was possessed what caused his epilepsy? The answer is a most definite YES! Is it claiming however that all epilepsy, or other diseases caused by demons? I do not believe that is the case. However can a possessed individual have an ailment that is caused by possession? I do believe so as evident in the bible and the scripture you so kindly pointed out to us.
I have seen a friend of mine with the worst case of asthma be completely healed of it after a demon was cast out of him. Does that mean the asthma was caused by the demon or that it was a medical issue exacerbated by the demon?God Bless!

I also saw a young lady have a demon cast out of her and a week later she reported that her bi-polar disorder got much better and she stopped taking her meds for it. In this case it would seem that her bi-polar disorder was aggravated by a demon.