Appearances

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Nancyer

Guest
#1
In a discussion with my husband (soon to be ex, that is) he made the comment that the main reason he doesn't go to church is that everybody there is fake. I asked if he thought I was fake and he said no, ok, he meant almost everybody is fake. I asked if he really thought that most people who go to church didn't mean what they say and only appeared that way while at church. I had to pin point him before he'd admit that there really are some people who practice what they preach and aren't just there on Sunday morning for a social thing.

In addition I said that what others do doesn't matter it's what I do, what he does, that matters. Others can say what they want and act how they want outside of church but as long as I'm ok in my heart that I'm right with God then I know God is right with me and that's all I want.

We got into what the kids do vs their parents. I explained we can preach until we're blue and our kids will do what they will do but we can still be right with the Lord and act as we feel compelled by the scriptures to act.

I know we've discussed this topic before here but it really is part of the problem. Christians who don't act or appear to be Christian to the outside world.
 
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TomH

Guest
#2
In a discussion with my husband (soon to be ex, that is) he made the comment that the main reason he doesn't go to church is that everybody there is fake. I asked if he thought I was fake and he said no, ok, he meant almost everybody is fake. I asked if he really thought that most people who go to church didn't mean what they say and only appeared that way while at church. I had to pin point him before he'd admit that there really are some people who practice what they preach and aren't just there on Sunday morning for a social thing.

In addition I said that what others do doesn't matter it's what I do, what he does, that matters. Others can say what they want and act how they want outside of church but as long as I'm ok in my heart that I'm right with God then I know God is right with me and that's all I want.

We got into what the kids do vs their parents. I explained we can preach until we're blue and our kids will do what they will do but we can still be right with the Lord and act as we feel compelled by the scriptures to act.

I know we've discussed this topic before here but it really is part of the problem. Christians who don't act or appear to be Christian to the outside world.
Yeah, ya gotta walk the walk.
 
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kenisyes

Guest
#3
After years of ministering in many denominations, in many roles, my wife and I estimate it as 10% serious committed Christians in most churches. But people who ARE serious should go for what they can give, not for what they can get. After age 50 (Num 8:25), if your church does not let you give what God has given you to give, go find, or start if necessary, another work of your own.
 

sandtigeress

Senior Member
Apr 29, 2013
526
16
18
#4
You will always have that problem.
Christians (not even, those belonging to christ) aren't perfect.
We can be an example, but we will never do everything, that other people think, we ought to.
Even Jesus was asked about his "bad" behaviour, we he took grain from a field on sabbath.

We can and ought to do our best, with love in our heart, because we know something to be right,
not because people tell us, they can not believe us, if we don't change something.
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
#5
we can't know what God will make of a person and should never give up on them because God never gave up on us.

David committed adultery. Moses was a murderer. Mary Magdalene had seven demons.

God is able to work in their lives and use them because He uses the humble and weak of this world to confound the "wise" and powerful.
 
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hattiebod

Guest
#6
Things change when you stop looking around you and look up. When He becomes your focus everything else falls into place. If we go to church, we go to worship, give thanks and serve. If we go with that attitude, rather than what we can get....the glass clears :). <><
 

maxwel

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2013
9,374
2,448
113
#7
In a discussion with my husband (soon to be ex, that is) he made the comment that the main reason he doesn't go to church is that everybody there is fake. I asked if he thought I was fake and he said no, ok, he meant almost everybody is fake. I asked if he really thought that most people who go to church didn't mean what they say and only appeared that way while at church. I had to pin point him before he'd admit that there really are some people who practice what they preach and aren't just there on Sunday morning for a social thing.

In addition I said that what others do doesn't matter it's what I do, what he does, that matters. Others can say what they want and act how they want outside of church but as long as I'm ok in my heart that I'm right with God then I know God is right with me and that's all I want.

We got into what the kids do vs their parents. I explained we can preach until we're blue and our kids will do what they will do but we can still be right with the Lord and act as we feel compelled by the scriptures to act.

I know we've discussed this topic before here but it really is part of the problem. Christians who don't act or appear to be Christian to the outside world.
A lot of people at church ARE fake.
So what.
That's in the bible.
It is frustrating, but it shouldn't dissuade us from what we need to do.

Some churches are better than others, but you'll never get away from fake people.
There are also fake people in the secular world... they're everywhere you go.

When somebody says something terrible...
the most rational thing isn't always to disagree.
Sometimes they're right.
But the reality of "terrible" things in the world seldom changes what a Christian needs to be doing.
 

Elizabeth619

Senior Member
Jul 19, 2011
6,397
109
48
#8
I used to talk about fake Cheistians and used that as an excuse back when I left the church(I've been restored since then)
A friend if mine told me once " better to spend an hour in church with a hypocrite then an eternity in Hell with them. "
That's a harsh statement. But it made me think.
 
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hattiebod

Guest
#9
Hypocrisy ....i used to say it kept me from God for so many years. I blamed the 'church' for my lost years. Now I know it was all me, but i can say, the hypocrisy of Christians did not help. What changed for me was living abroad surrounded by American Christians ( yes, you lot!) they expected a Christian school, they 'lived' their faith, it was in your face but they cared too...it affected me deeply. Many had such a simple loving faith. Awesome. Then i got a new neighbour, a UK, Christian who was just amazing. (still friends, see her this summer :) God was placing all this around me...and I was saved. But , it was a tough first few years as I found it hard to accept the hypocrisy...i thought all Christians would not want to watch sex filled movies, would not want their children to read Harry Potter, why did not all mothers do devotions? really?? ...i really struggled. I descended into my Amish Period. (as i like to call it :) I was SO legalistic. But, God worked through others, through me...and led me gently out. Stronger, wiser and more in love with Him than ever. A wise sister from Michigan said to me one day when i was venting, she said, why not look up, instead of across the pews and remember, He did not die for you when you passed an exam, He died for where you are right now".
So, fake christians? bring 'em on!! we can grow SO much in loving them, meeting them right where they are, just as Jesus does, through us!!
God Bless, <><
PS. Love you guys across the pond :)
 
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Nancyer

Guest
#10
Great big thanks to everyone! Wonderful points to ponder and respond with, if needed. Until then I just continue to act out my love for Jesus and for all peoples and pray that he sees it in me and God nudges his heart a little more each day. (Although it may take more than a nudge, God. A great big shove might be in order....)

Praise be to God, blessings to all .
 
May 3, 2013
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#11
After years of ministering in many denominations, in many roles, my wife and I estimate it as 10% serious committed Christians in most churches... .
I hope that percentage (%) is more.
 
May 3, 2013
8,719
75
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#12
I have heard many people talking on the issue but, Who Am I to judge them, if I am not doing right? Their commitment is their and some use these shortcomings as a means of justification to avoid many things. Jesus spoke about those, above mentioned, who would find an alibi but what would be mine?
There is a positive side. Some came back to Him and some are unwilling to follow leaders and yesterday, by the way, a man told me about one who insisted in asking him his car, "because God will bless him much more"... So I see many materialistic "reasons" to see some Churches are unattractive.
 

Fenner

Senior Member
Jan 26, 2013
7,507
111
0
#13
I read what Hattie said and I couldn't agree more. I learned from another couple there just by watching them, serve the Lord, don't worry about who's real and who's not. That sorts itself out. It really does.
 
May 17, 2013
175
1
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#14
In a discussion with my husband (soon to be ex, that is) he made the comment that the main reason he doesn't go to church is that everybody there is fake. I asked if he thought I was fake and he said no, ok, he meant almost everybody is fake. I asked if he really thought that most people who go to church didn't mean what they say and only appeared that way while at church. I had to pin point him before he'd admit that there really are some people who practice what they preach and aren't just there on Sunday morning for a social thing.

In addition I said that what others do doesn't matter it's what I do, what he does, that matters. Others can say what they want and act how they want outside of church but as long as I'm ok in my heart that I'm right with God then I know God is right with me and that's all I want.

We got into what the kids do vs their parents. I explained we can preach until we're blue and our kids will do what they will do but we can still be right with the Lord and act as we feel compelled by the scriptures to act.

I know we've discussed this topic before here but it really is part of the problem. Christians who don't act or appear to be Christian to the outside world.
I'm not sure whether you are here to be validated, to win an argument with your husband, to get opinions on the actual matter at hand, or if you're giving a roundabout way of showing your marital disagreements and asking for marital advice.

But what I would say is that it's okay for you and your husband to have different perspectives on people, on life and on church. Perhaps he sees something that you don't. I know I have seen it, plenty of times; the fake, exuberant, phony masks that people put on, and perhaps your husband is right, in his own perspective and way.

You actually sound like two sides of the same coin that are focusing on the discrepancies in your views rather than how they perfectly align.

You believe that people CAN show masks, but that it's what you do that matters. And your husband also sees the masks people wear, and has decided he doesn't want to be a part of that kind of circle. Seems like he's playing right into your outlook on this, though you don't realize it.

Who's divorcing who?
 

Lucy68

Senior Member
Jan 21, 2011
2,538
22
0
#15
I think it's helpful to envision a sign on everyone's forehead ...."work in progress"; maybe that would keep us from being so quick to judge.

Some people just plain don't want to go to church and instead of saying that, they start justifying that desire by blaming others; especially by calling church-goers all hypocrites :(.
 
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Nancyer

Guest
#16
I'm not sure whether you are here to be validated, to win an argument with your husband, to get opinions on the actual matter at hand, or if you're giving a roundabout way of showing your marital disagreements and asking for marital advice.

But what I would say is that it's okay for you and your husband to have different perspectives on people, on life and on church. Perhaps he sees something that you don't. I know I have seen it, plenty of times; the fake, exuberant, phony masks that people put on, and perhaps your husband is right, in his own perspective and way.

You actually sound like two sides of the same coin that are focusing on the discrepancies in your views rather than how they perfectly align.

You believe that people CAN show masks, but that it's what you do that matters. And your husband also sees the masks people wear, and has decided he doesn't want to be a part of that kind of circle. Seems like he's playing right into your outlook on this, though you don't realize it.

Who's divorcing who?
WOW. Didn't see it this way at all. Thanks for the eye opening. Things to ponder, certainly. It would take far too long to explain why my husband and I are apart, it really has nothing to do with church going or believing and I'm not here to bad mouth him. (I wasn't a believer when our marriage first went down hill and it's what has kept me strong and happy throughout.)

I agree there are people at all churches who are fake but there are also true Christians who follow their faith, love Jesus and are a blessing to the church. Trust me when I say my husband only sees the surface and from that thinks he knows all. (One church friend made a comment and my husband instantly knew why she said it, what she meant by it and why she goes to church in the first place....) Anyway, I didn't mean to trash my husband or win an argument, just posted what a non believer stated because I know he's not the only one who thinks this about Christians.
 
May 17, 2013
175
1
0
#17
WOW. Didn't see it this way at all. Thanks for the eye opening. Things to ponder, certainly. It would take far too long to explain why my husband and I are apart, it really has nothing to do with church going or believing and I'm not here to bad mouth him. (I wasn't a believer when our marriage first went down hill and it's what has kept me strong and happy throughout.)

I agree there are people at all churches who are fake but there are also true Christians who follow their faith, love Jesus and are a blessing to the church. Trust me when I say my husband only sees the surface and from that thinks he knows all. (One church friend made a comment and my husband instantly knew why she said it, what she meant by it and why she goes to church in the first place....) Anyway, I didn't mean to trash my husband or win an argument, just posted what a non believer stated because I know he's not the only one who thinks this about Christians.
Is there any hard evidence that he is either right or wrong on this woman's views?

There are people in the world who are what we call 'empaths', who can decipher tones, objectives, motives and meanings from simple conversations and moments with people. Is your husband the 'unbeliever' you refer to?

You know, sometimes in life, people do perhaps become cynical and a bit blinded, but that's only a one angled view of the situation. Your husband may be tired, he may be stressed, he may be a lot of things and certainly I, being someone who sometimes feels as he does, need understanding in these kind of times rather than pressure being applied or being invalidated. I know it's not intentional on your part, and you just don't think it's merited for him to feel the way he feels, but feelings are very, very powerful, and being told, even in the slightest way, that your feelings are 'wrong', is like being put inside a box of what you 'should feel' instead of being recognized for what you actually feel.

I'm only 23, and I know I might sound very pretentious, perhaps even sanctimonious in what I'm saying, even a bit of a 'know-it-all', but honestly, I'm just trying to explain how my own analytic perception works and how it can sometimes be very useful, and other times it can be a curse. Your husband sounds like someone who tries to pierce through what people portray on the outside and breach the inner shell that keeps the true motives and feelings. This in itself is a really tough kind of perspective to have on the world.

He probably desires the 'real' kind of interaction that today's society rarely promotes. And you know this yourself; the make up, the image, the should-be's and should-not-be's and the parts people play in the world. There are very few people whom I can say portray themselves as what they truly are and perhaps, for all his seeming flaws, your husband has a hard time pretending to play the role that he's 'supposed' to play. Do you know what I mean?

To a certain extent, we all portray something that we aren't. And literally, you could boil this down and go through all this and it's very likely that your husband's desire to know the inner personality so that he can decipher what someone really is, probably comes from something that caused him to be mistrusting of people. I know that's what happened to me. And now I need to understand the motives people have rather than playing along with what they put out. I need to know where their personality and image really comes from. It isn't that I'm unaccepting of people (at least to my own view), it's just that I have a hard time handling deception of any kind and if I know the real person, I can TRULY accept them for what they are and respond to that in the according fashion.

Maybe that can be classed as overthinking, but I like to see it as desiring to know the real truth. The only problem is that I often expect that real truth to be something 'dirty' that someone feels the need to hide. The cure for that is for someone to come along and re-instill my faith in humanity, and when all is said and done, I think that's exactly what your husband needs; to be shown something wonderful and selfless and to know that there really are people in the world who are truly loving. That's not something that can be shown in words, that's something that requires action.

Can I ask you, was your husband once a non-cynical idealist with hopes and dreams, who didn't have this kind of cynicism about things? I suspect so but I can't be sure. You don't actually need to answer obviously, this is all just something to think about. But if it is the case that he used to be that type of person, then all you need to do is find out what crushed him. Because that's all a cynic really is; a crushed romantic.
 
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woka

Guest
#18
For me it is the fact that we are all sinners, and all fall short. If I acted the way I felt sometimes I might get locked up......lol. So for me it's about depending on the Lord, and when I do say the wrong thing to someone, or act inapropriatley, it is the act of going back to the person and asking for forgiveness that speaks the loudest of my saviour's saving grace.
 
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Iluv_Jesus

Guest
#19
The main reason I go to church or come here to post in threads is that I believe where two or more are gathered in Jesus name, Jesus is there in their midst. Matthew chapter 18:20. I go to Church to seek God. What's the use of going to church if not for God? God is present in a gathering of believers. Always.