Being condemned by Christians

[gene77]

Hi all,

After much thought over the weekend, I have decided to post something that has been weighing down on me. Before I get down to my question, here's a little background on me:

I come from a country that has over 330 million gods. My family was initially Roman Catholic, but many have chosen by their free will to be born again believers. When my parents "converted", I was 4 years old. So, I have been brought up with the knowledge that Jesus is the ONLY way to the Father, and our ONLY Saviour, through whom we gain Salvation. I personally gave my life to Jesus around the age of 7, and have continuously been striving to get closer to God. I have had the opportunity to be part of numerous ministries especially with poor street children, orphans, and children of lepers. Working in my family NGO since the age of 10, I have never been blessed more.

Over the years, I have met, worked with and hung out with people from various religions and faith. I have numerous friends who are Hindu, Muslim, Jain, and Sikh. Though I have mentioned Jesus quite a lot and even invited them to church (some did attend), none of them have condemned my faith. I have had lengthy biblical discussions with Muslim friends. They tell me about their faith and I tell them about mine. Not a single non-Christian has criticized my faith or told me off. Instead, they actually listen. Being a human, none of us can convert anyone. It's only through the holy spirit that a person's heart and beliefs can be changed. We can however, love them, and through our Christ-like love and our behaviour, they can come to know of our faith and our Saviour. That's what I believe.

It is so disheartening when I come across Christians who openly condemn people. I have had homosexual friends who have been condemned by Christians in such a bad way, that they do not even want to hear the name Jesus anymore. I do not believe that that is what Jesus has asked us to do. This post is not about homosexuality, though. It's about us, Christians. I have had experiences with Christians of other denominations, particularly a few Roman Catholic relatives who have downright told me to keep my stupid faith to myself. This did shock me, as I wasn't trying to convert anyone. I was just sharing something from the Bible.

A few days ago, I was in the Lounge chat room. A 22 year old girl (I do not want to name her for sake of her privacy), sent me a message (PM). She's quite new to this site, and I have never talked to her before. She blatantly stated that I was a lukewarm Christian and that I need to set my heart right with Jesus, because Jesus spews out lukewarm Christians. She went on to say that I need to repent from my sins. On telling her that that was very discouraging to hear, especially since I was going to be preaching the next day, she told me that preaching without the anointing is useless, and I need to repent. I did not know whether to laugh or not. All I could muster up to say at the end of that accusation, was a "God bless you". Was she for real??

Yes, all of us our sinners. And, yes, God forgives sins. That being said, I don't think anyone of us has the right to judge others. Going around telling people that they are sinners and need to repent isn't the way we are going to get anyone to Christ. I believe the way a Christian needs to go about this is firstly by showing love. LOVE one another. I say this because I am surrounded by non- believers. I am the only Christian in the locality that I live in, and the only Christian in my entire team at work. I wouldn't go to my neighbours or my colleagues and tell them that they are sinning and they need to have a relationship with Christ. The only way I can bring them to Christ is by being Christ-like. When a non-believer is going through a hard time, I grab the opportunity to ask them if they would like me to pray for them. And, EVERYONE in that situation says yes. I don't think they expect me to pray immediately. But, I start praying for them then and there in Jesus' name. And, they pray along too. Which is quite a wonderful experience.

This has turned out to be a lengthy post. Apologies. I would like to hear if anyone has faced similar situations as I have, and what is the best way to share Jesus with non-believers?

Food for thought:
- When Jesus told us to love everyone, are we really doing that?
- When people don't believe what we believe, do we think we are better than them?
- By condemning people openly, are we drawing them closer or pushing further away from the truth?

 

[DELL23]

!!!
I just discovered this forum and it's the first thing that I noticed.. We all know God's words is LAW, but Jesus, that is something you teach to person, not imput.

God Bless.

 

[Ecclesiastik]

Hello Gene,

I understand what you are saying but it feels like we are missing a lot of context. Why were you called a lukewarm Christian?

I think you are right to say that we need to love each other. Yet, one thing that people often seem to forget is that love is not always positive reinforcement. Jesus (as well as John the Baptist and the prophets) often used negative reinforcement in His ministry.

If you could provide the context, it would helpful in determining if your experience was indeed a person who was unloving or who was simply trying to help you.

 

[David_1]

Gene, You are from India, hence why your experience has been great. I have known many Indians who are wonderful spirits and very open to Christian teachings.

Honestly, Most of these spiteful, hateful Christians come from a nasty mixture of Right Wing politics. It started in the USA and it was called the Moral Majority, and it spread to countries like mine, Australia. It's not about Christ at all, and is all about Social Conservatism. Social Conservatism seeks to divide and judge. It's a perversion of the teachings.

Keep doing what you are doing!

 

[gene77]

Hi Ecclesiastik,

Thank you for your reply. The girl who called me a lukewarm Christian did not know me at all. And, had never spoken to me at all. She just PM-d out of the blue and sent me websites to check out for Christians who need to return to God. And, then she called me a lukewarm christian, and told me to repent for my sins. She asked me questions such as if my heart is right with Jesus. I asked her if this is a general question which she is posing to everyone in the chat room. She first said that it was a general one, and then said that she feels in her heart that I am not right with Jesus and that I need to repent of my sins. Which was extremely weird to me because she does not know me at all. I presume she assumes herself to be a prophet or one who can gauge if a person is "right with God or not".

If she knew me and felt that I was straying away from God, and told me so in a nice way, it would have been a different matter. However, she had never spoken to me before. So, I found it extremely strange that someone would do this.

I agree with your take on negative reinforcement. It's like a parent correcting his or her child, because they want them to be better. It's done out of love, generally. Jesus loved the people, and therefore he corrected them. He however knew their sins and after showing them compassion he would tell them to go and sin no more.

-- Gene

 

[gene77]

Hi David_1,

Thank you for your reply. And, thanks for explaining Social Conservatism to me. I haven't thought about that perspective before. I do have a lot of family from the West. I actually happen to be one of the few Indians in my family. So, I am pretty well-versed with different cultures from all around the globe, including Australia. I just didn't think of what you have mentioned. Thank you very much.

-- Gene

 

[Ecclesiastik]

I gotcha. I reckon she was likely incorrect in her presumption from what you have said.

However, let me relate a story to you gene. It was one I heard about John Wesley, the founder of Methodism (before American Methodism became what it is today, of course). John was traveling on his horse one day when a troubling thought suddenly struck his mind. He dismounted and began to pray : "Lord, everyone has been favorable to me lately. Please let me know if I have compromised in any way." As he was doing this a farmer looked up and saw that John had dismounted and said something among the lines of "Here's that no good preacher again", picked up a rock, and threw it at him. John responded by praying "Thank you for your confirmation, Lord."

I think it's an awesome thing that you are able to get along with all your friends of different religions while still witnessing to them. But, since I do not know, I have to ask if you are being bold with your witnessing? The Bible says that all who wish to live a godly live in Christ Jesus will suffer persecution.

Have you suffered persecution? If so, would you like to share any stories? I'll trade you a story for a story if you wish.

God bless!

 

[gene77]

Hi Ecclesiastik,

Thank you for that anecdote. To be honest, I'm glad that she did that. At the moment I happen to be getting closer and closer with God, and experiencing more of His blessings. I have gone through a terrible year, and the only thing that got me through was God. It's funny that you bring up persecution, because that's what the sermon was about this Sunday at my church.

I stated that I'm glad that she said those things, because even though I thought what she did wasn't right, and quite rude, it really got me thinking on how we Christians treat others. Either we don't care enough and just go with the flow.. or we condemn people. It's two extremes. And, sometimes finding the balance can be a little different. I think it's just God-given wisdom that enables us to do the right things at the right time, even though we may think it odd. Witnessing while trying not to be docile or be too bold is something that I am trying to find a balance with. And, I know that God will help. He always does.

I do have a lot of stories to share. My family has in fact been through quite a bit. People can face persecution is various forms. I was removed/expelled from a Catholic school when my parents changed our faith. I'd rather take this topic off this thread. I don't want to go into too personal events here, if you do not mind. And, yes! I'd love to hear a story.

God bless you too!

 

[jogoldie]

Dont have a story like that probably because I refuse to listen to the attacks.....cause they are not from God...
But I can say this......Jesus said ..I will make you fishers of men....
I dont know about you but when I fish...I have patience and alittle bait(Gods word)...and reel them in slowly...
As to not loose my catch....I dont now many successful fishermen who use a club and drag them by their tails...
Love must be the key....

 

[djness]

Sounds like she was just a troll looking to mess with a Christian. It was a well timed attack by satan on you.
You seem to be doing quite well with evangelizing. Only thing I would really suggest is that you brush off accusers quicker so they cannot steal your joy. Be innocent as doves but SHREWD as serpents.

 

[notuptome]

It is quite easy to be taken the wrong way in forums like these. There are many who claim to be Christian but do not have any personal knowledge of the Lord. There are many who feel they must berate others for what they perceive as sin.

It is in the nature of man to judge his fellow man. We always want to excuse ourselves by blaming others and painting them as worse than us. We if we are Christians are to be like Christ not like the religious elite. Jesus never excused sin but He did not name the persons sin yet He brought about conviction by His personal holiness and purity. Jesus was hardest on those who saw themselves as the most religious. Self righteousness is harder to over come than overt sin. The sodomite knows they are sinners. They do not need someone to point it out they just need someone to point them to Jesus.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[JimJimmers]

Hey Gene! It's good to see a thread by you, I was just thinking of you.


I agree we should show love to non-believers and believers alike. They shall know we are Christians by our love, The Bible says. The only thing I want to add is, when you said "Going around telling people that they are sinners and need to repent isn't the way we are going to get anyone to Christ."

That is what they did in the book of Acts, but they were clear that we are ALL sinners. So I think it is important to not leave sin out of the equation, but to speak the truth in love.

It's good to see you around, I hope I can chat with you sometime. (And not to tell you how lukewarm you are! )

 

[gene77]

Hi jogoldie,

Thank you for replying. It means a lot. =) Thank you for sharing. I always find it a joy to learn from people who are older and much more experienced in our walk as Christians. I've always had this strange love for people. It's inbuilt. Whenever I meet anyone, I always see the good in them. And, as for people who have been mean to me, I've never hated them. Instead, I feel compassion. I know that in this world it's generally seen as difficult to love people. But, I've always found it easier to love than to hate. I never understood why until I found out the meaning of my name. Genevieve means "the woman of the people" or " the woman who leads (the people)". So, I guess the more people call me by my name, the more I become it.

-- Genevieve

(why do I sign as Gene? Most Indian people don't get my name at all, and it's a struggle for them. So, a lot of people just stick to Gene or Gen or Jenny)

 

[gene77]

Sounds like she was just a troll looking to mess with a Christian. It was a well timed attack by satan on you.
You seem to be doing quite well with evangelizing. Only thing I would really suggest is that you brush off accusers quicker so they cannot steal your joy. Be innocent as doves but SHREWD as serpents.

Hi djness,

Thank you for your reply. =) Yes, I totally agree that I should learn not to take what people say to heart, and I should brush it off faster. In this case, I'm actually taking something positive out of the whole negative reprimanding that I got. It made me think quite a bit on how we treat people. And, I hope to be bold, yet loving towards all.

Thanks,
Gene

 

[John_agape]

Hi Gene. I have worked with Hindus and Muslims, and I think you have your heart right with the Lord. This person who was rude is obviously ignorant of speaking to people across cultures.

This was a personal attack, but you should not take it personally. The person who attacked you is the one with the problem.

When Jesus hung on the cross He said, "Father forgive them for they no not what they do." He was referring to the people who were following the priests, but Jesus condemned the priests very harshly. This person who was abusive probably is following some pastor and knows not what she does.

You mentioned balance which is a key: as you said, "Witnessing while trying not to be docile or be too bold is something that I am trying to find a balance with. And, I know that God will help. He always does." Finding that balance is an individual thing as we are all different with different talents. Then we meet people who have their own culture, personalities and opinions. There is no one standard way to evangelize. It varies from person to person, situation to situation. We need to be close to God and follow His leading.

Sometimes people are nasty in a way that a Christian could not possibly be. When I come across such a person I say that person is not a Christian. However there are Christians who can be as nasty in a deluded zeal. I don't condemn them for not being Christian, but question their understanding of what following Christ entails.

There was the Law before Jesus came and died on the cross. Now that Law that was written on stone is written in our hearts. Unfortunately there are some sections of the Christian community that have gone back to a Law. It is easier to follow a strict set of rules given by a pastor than to be in an intimate relationship with God. Then one doesn't have to think, or make decisions.

Also about anointing. Who anoints? Man or God? How can man anoint? I believe there is no general one time anointing, but a well prayed for prepared sermon, listening for God's leading is an anointed sermon, because it is God leading.

 

[gene77]

It is quite easy to be taken the wrong way in forums like these. There are many who claim to be Christian but do not have any personal knowledge of the Lord. There are many who feel they must berate others for what they perceive as sin.

It is in the nature of man to judge his fellow man. We always want to excuse ourselves by blaming others and painting them as worse than us. We if we are Christians are to be like Christ not like the religious elite. Jesus never excused sin but He did not name the persons sin yet He brought about conviction by His personal holiness and purity. Jesus was hardest on those who saw themselves as the most religious. Self righteousness is harder to over come than overt sin. The sodomite knows they are sinners. They do not need someone to point it out they just need someone to point them to Jesus.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Hi Roger,

Thanks for your reply. Your explanation was beautiful and I completely agree. God loves His people, and He always wants to give them chances. So, he does send people to spread his gospel or warn others who have moved away from Him. I do believe that He has his different ways of doing so. And, you are right about people knowing that they are sinners. For example, Jonah was sent to Nineveh to remind the people of God, and that what they were practicing was wrong. Not to condemn them. He did not want to do that because he didn't like them. So, even though he finally did do his job, it was the people who immediately repented, because they knew all along in their hearts that they were sinning.

-- Gene

 

[Animus]

I know you said it wasn't about this, but to get a sense of why she might have called you a lukewarm Christian, how would you respond to the following questions:

1. "If I'm not a Christian, am I going to hell?"
2. "Can I practice homosexuality and be Christian?"

I find that generally what people say is Christians condemning them comes when questions such as these are asked and the Christian gives an honest answer. When I talk to gay people I don't condemn their homosexuality, in the same way that I don't condemn my other friends for watching porn or fornicating, but when people find out I'm a Christian they tend to ask this sort of question, "Do you think it's a sin to be gay?" and I answer yes, and when they ask, "Do you think homosexuals should be allowed same-sex marriage?" and I say no, then they become indignant.

 

[gene77]

Hey Gene! It's good to see a thread by you, I was just thinking of you.


I agree we should show love to non-believers and believers alike. They shall know we are Christians by our love, The Bible says. The only thing I want to add is, when you said "Going around telling people that they are sinners and need to repent isn't the way we are going to get anyone to Christ."

That is what they did in the book of Acts, but they were clear that we are ALL sinners. So I think it is important to not leave sin out of the equation, but to speak the truth in love.

It's good to see you around, I hope I can chat with you sometime. (And not to tell you how lukewarm you are! )

JimJimmers!!

It has been a while =) Thank you for your reply. I do agree that sin needs to be mentioned. However, when a person comes to the Lord, they know within themselves that they have been sinners. I would rather tell a person of my faith and what I believe in, and answer questions that the person has, rather than tell the person-- You are sinning, and must repent.
As notuptome mentioned, people do know that they are sinners. And, when they get convicted, the first thing they do is repent.

For example, I could tell a person that I do not worship idols because my God forbids it. There is only one God, and we are meant to worship the Creator and not His creation. Rather than telling a person, "You are sinning by bowing down to that idol. Repent and throw all your idols away!" There's a difference =)

And, yes, we haven't had a chance to chat in a long, long while. Rachel20 and I are meeting up soon.

-- Gene

 

[pastac]

Sometimes I believe people mean well. They have been used to their comfort zone and getting outside that makes them feel threatned in some way. Some on sites such as this hide behind the words and are seeking direction. Some like the power and feed off it in some bizzare way.Some need to be taught but are trying to teach. Some are well seasoned and mature but not all. That has to be remembered. In a family as large as ours we take the drunk uncle as well as the walk on water nephew and love them in spite of their faults. Keep doing what you are doing. Did you notice how I did not use one scripture to say what the bible says? Whatever is in you will at some point come out. Let me leave you with this, As sheep we eat the word of God. It replaces all the junk we have eatenover the years. Well even sheep leave behind stuff after eating! Get it> There will always be dung around even sheep. Be blessed young sister.

 

[gene77]

Hi John_agape,

Thank you so much for your reply. It makes a lot of sense. I agree with what you have to say. Yes, every situation is different, and we need God's guidance to deal with all situations. That's where the holy spirit comes into play.

About anointing.. it's something that I've experienced especially during prayer and worship. One needs that close connection with God to gain anointing. And, building a relationship with God is like building a relationship with a person on Earth. It takes time.. Just as the more you talk to a person, the more closer you get to a person. Likewise, the more you genuinely pray and spend time with God, the more closer you get to God.

-- Gene