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I agree that false spiritual gifts do manifest today in all kinds of congregations (btw I'm not a Pentacostal I'm non-denominational) and for some reason you have something against the gift of tongues, probably because you haven't yet witnessed someone speaking in tongues of the Spirit. It is rare but it's out there. Reading your posts it's like you doubt the real gift exists at all, in spite of strong Biblical testimonies on here where this gift was used to bring people to Christ.
Your solution to imposter manifestations is, kick God's gifts out of the church? How is that a solution to disarm the Body of Christ from what God sends from above? Why not educate others instead how to discern between biblical and unbiblical spiritual gifts to build them up? Dont you think it would be more useful?
Your solution to imposter manifestations is, kick God's gifts out of the church? How is that a solution to disarm the Body of Christ from what God sends from above? Why not educate others instead how to discern between biblical and unbiblical spiritual gifts to build them up? Dont you think it would be more useful?
Eventually all of them go financially bankrupt.
I remember one guy who said if the people did not donate a million dollars that God was going to kill him.
It's all just symptomatic. The crowds followed Jesus to receive not the word of God but to be fed bread and fish. Some followed to see Jesus heal the sick but missed the reason Jesus healed the sick.
All the great faith healers of today still go bald, need false teeth and some even wind up in prison.
The church grows when the saints of God weep and pray for souls to be saved. We are the witnesses. Our lives are the testimony of Christ. Our suffering points to His suffering. The preaching of the cross is foolishness to them who perish.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
I remember one guy who said if the people did not donate a million dollars that God was going to kill him.
It's all just symptomatic. The crowds followed Jesus to receive not the word of God but to be fed bread and fish. Some followed to see Jesus heal the sick but missed the reason Jesus healed the sick.
All the great faith healers of today still go bald, need false teeth and some even wind up in prison.
The church grows when the saints of God weep and pray for souls to be saved. We are the witnesses. Our lives are the testimony of Christ. Our suffering points to His suffering. The preaching of the cross is foolishness to them who perish.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
What does it mean when Gods word says something ceased?
God is able to do miracles but God is under no obligation to do miracles. Tongues, knowledge and prophecy are still possible but God has brought them to an end until the time of the gentiles is fulfilled.
God still heals but God does not have healers. We are to preach the word of God to be instant in season to trust God to save souls from sin. Is it not better to enter into heaven lame than having two legs be cast into hell?
Those who love the Lord and love Gods word already know how to discern what is of God and what is of man. That is the problem many really have on this subject. They must create doubt or their doctrine is lost in the light of the truth.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
God is able to do miracles but God is under no obligation to do miracles. Tongues, knowledge and prophecy are still possible but God has brought them to an end until the time of the gentiles is fulfilled.
God still heals but God does not have healers. We are to preach the word of God to be instant in season to trust God to save souls from sin. Is it not better to enter into heaven lame than having two legs be cast into hell?
Those who love the Lord and love Gods word already know how to discern what is of God and what is of man. That is the problem many really have on this subject. They must create doubt or their doctrine is lost in the light of the truth.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Apparently from testimonies on here and others that have not been shared, these gifts have been used in Biblical way and successfully brought people to Christ and built people up for God's causes, encouraged them, comforted them, exhorted them towards God. The devil does not lead people to God nor do any of this... do you really suggest that the devil would lead people to accept Christ or break free of sin and addictions? Please be careful what you're saying.
I have, but it's been a while. I usually prophesy. But..... I don't "seek" them. It happens naturally & spontaneously. I think this song is helpful to those in the modern church "seeking" after the gifts. Pay special attention to verse 2.
[video=youtube;QkHmmEPejQ0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkHmmEPejQ0[/video]
IMO, I think it's more important to seek the Giftgiver than the gift.
[video=youtube;QkHmmEPejQ0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkHmmEPejQ0[/video]
IMO, I think it's more important to seek the Giftgiver than the gift.
You have not answered my question. Why are you so interested only into tearing down but not into building others up, you write pages and pages and pages to debate, yet when someone asks you or suggests to do something edifying that would actually prevent false gifts from manifesting you will not do it? Why not do this and share here your study on Biblical gift manifestation, what is Biblical tongues like and what is not, what is Biblical healing like and what is not, what is prophecy like and what is demonic impostory, et cetera, why you write so much to oppose the gift alltogether even if it's of GOD, but refuse to teach younger believers how to know the true from false, please dont go around this question? One would think if you were so concerned about false manifestations that you would make and post this study long ago?
The passage doesn't say they were earning their living from it. People aren't going to know what kind of point you are trying to get from a Bible story if you don't spell out the details and the details are only in your imagination and not in the text. There are plenty of people who minister to the sick without earning their living of it. There are also people who preach the Gospel and minister to the sick and they that preach the Gospel should live of the gospel.
You are saying something the text hasn't. There is no reason to think the gift of tongues will cease before something comes that makes Paul's understanding of things in the first century seem childish by comparison.
In terms of Biblical interpretation, this is utter nonsense. If you think these things have ceased, by what authority do you argue that they will be revived when the time of the Gentiles is fulfilled? The Bible teaches no such thing. You might have a book on dispensationalism or some kind of dispensational chart that teaches this, but the Bible doesn't teach such things.
So you would have us believe that God doesn't relate to people the way the Bible shows that He does, and instead, He follows a set of rules that aren't in the Bible that you made up? I don't think so. You said the other gifts haven't ceased, so why would you want to do away with 'gifts of healing' in I Corinthians 12 or people being healed through the anointing with oil of the elders or them that believe laying hands on the sick?
So the questions you should consider are, do you love the Lord and love God's word? Or you could be a bit wrong about that last statement.
In terms of Biblical interpretation, this is utter nonsense. If you think these things have ceased, by what authority do you argue that they will be revived when the time of the Gentiles is fulfilled? The Bible teaches no such thing. You might have a book on dispensationalism or some kind of dispensational chart that teaches this, but the Bible doesn't teach such things.
So you would have us believe that God doesn't relate to people the way the Bible shows that He does, and instead, He follows a set of rules that aren't in the Bible that you made up? I don't think so. You said the other gifts haven't ceased, so why would you want to do away with 'gifts of healing' in I Corinthians 12 or people being healed through the anointing with oil of the elders or them that believe laying hands on the sick?
So the questions you should consider are, do you love the Lord and love God's word? Or you could be a bit wrong about that last statement.
Peter's interpretation of that passage included the time that started at Pentecost in Acts 2.
The Bible still says that they that believe shall lay hands on the sick and they shall recover.
The one who receives the gift of prophecy prophesies in I Corinthians 12, doesn't he? The one with divers tonges speaks in tongues, doesn't he? Why would the gifts healings be different?
I had just asked you if you loved the Lord and His word.
The Bible still says that they that believe shall lay hands on the sick and they shall recover.
The one who receives the gift of prophecy prophesies in I Corinthians 12, doesn't he? The one with divers tonges speaks in tongues, doesn't he? Why would the gifts healings be different?
I had just asked you if you loved the Lord and His word.
Correct partial fulfillment, the former rain. We now await the latter rain which is the fulfillment of the rest of Joel.
So what? The gift of healing when it is miraculous is still given to the infirmed not to the one who lays on the hands. God also heals by natural means. This is often the result of much prayer of the saints of God.
Simply because the gifts of prophecy and tongues have ended. Those who go and pray over the sick and anoint them are often at the bedside of the infirmed and not on stage.
I responded to the part about me being wrong. You knew that but just felt it necessary to endeavor to antagonize me.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
For the cause of Christ
Roger
A few years ago I was on a Pentecostal forum much like this one. I debated many charismatics on this subject. My main goal was to find that there was indeed the Holy Spirit among these folks. Meaning I wanted to know if they were saved or just deceived. I was of course banned after a year or so. I engaged one of the administrators of the site on the matter of the efficacy of the blood of Christ. He would not acknowledge that the blood of Christ was wholly sufficient to save a soul from sin. Part of this no doubt comes from the hatred he had for the eternal security of the believer doctrine.
I try as best as I can to give the benefit of the doubt to posters that they are in fact genuinely saved and secured in Christ for all of eternity. When a poster is pressed about the blood or the indwelling of the Holy Spirit and they reject the teaching I am hard pressed to believe that they are saved. These are the same folks that claim to speak in tongues and many healings by casting out demons and the such.
The only scriptures these can comprehend are the scriptures that teach that men must be saved for they cannot discern deeper Spiritual matters.
I know that does not directly answer your question but this is not the correct forum to study the matter and if one is not conversing with saved people there is no profitable outcome to be had.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
I try as best as I can to give the benefit of the doubt to posters that they are in fact genuinely saved and secured in Christ for all of eternity. When a poster is pressed about the blood or the indwelling of the Holy Spirit and they reject the teaching I am hard pressed to believe that they are saved. These are the same folks that claim to speak in tongues and many healings by casting out demons and the such.
The only scriptures these can comprehend are the scriptures that teach that men must be saved for they cannot discern deeper Spiritual matters.
I know that does not directly answer your question but this is not the correct forum to study the matter and if one is not conversing with saved people there is no profitable outcome to be had.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
No I don't speak in tongues or a foreign language. However, I do speak with a tongue....
The Holy Spirit at Pentecost
Acts 2
…5Now there were Jews living in Jerusalem, devout men from every nation under heaven. 6And when this sound occurred, the crowd came together, and were bewildered because each one of them was hearing them speak in his own language. 7They were amazed and astonished, saying, "Why, are not all these who are speaking Galileans?…8"And how is it that we each hear them in our own language to which we were born? 9"Parthians and Medes and Elamites, and residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia,…
I would love to have the gift it were to be able to explain the gospel to someone to understand in their own language as was done on the Day of Pentecost.
The Holy Spirit at Pentecost
Acts 2
…5Now there were Jews living in Jerusalem, devout men from every nation under heaven. 6And when this sound occurred, the crowd came together, and were bewildered because each one of them was hearing them speak in his own language. 7They were amazed and astonished, saying, "Why, are not all these who are speaking Galileans?…8"And how is it that we each hear them in our own language to which we were born? 9"Parthians and Medes and Elamites, and residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia,…
I would love to have the gift it were to be able to explain the gospel to someone to understand in their own language as was done on the Day of Pentecost.
1 Corinthians 14:1
Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy.
Hmm, why does Paul exhort the Corinthian church to follow after love and desire spiritual gifts? That word desire means to lust after. Don't be afraid of spiritual gifts. Also, I haven't found a scripture that refers to these 'false tongues' people talk about.
Some say, don't go after the gift but go to the gift giver, I say do both for the sake of the church, for that's what the gifts are for, to encourage, exhort and comfort the church.
Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy.
Hmm, why does Paul exhort the Corinthian church to follow after love and desire spiritual gifts? That word desire means to lust after. Don't be afraid of spiritual gifts. Also, I haven't found a scripture that refers to these 'false tongues' people talk about.
Some say, don't go after the gift but go to the gift giver, I say do both for the sake of the church, for that's what the gifts are for, to encourage, exhort and comfort the church.
Okay so you have encountered some people who are works salvation based and because of this, as they claimed to have operated (note, claimed) in spiritual gifts now you think that if someone praises Biblical gifts and encourages them that they are not saved or something. Are you implying that anybody speaking in tongues or operating in other spiritual gifts is not saved? Just making the convo more clear.
I do speak in tongues and sometimes I sing in tongues. I do that by myself. We only have tongues in our church when there is interpretation. God gave me this gift when I was praying in my bedroom and I cried about something. Than while I just ended a sentence in my native tongue, I went on in another language that I did not know. It is a language that I can hear, it is not just uttering some dada or bla bla. It are words and it has a rhythm a sequence. When I sing (accidentally discovered that while humming around) I sense I sing a song of words I do not know, on a melody I do not know.
God is the giver of perfect gifts. But spirits can bring false tongues or gifts. I believe we need discernment next to all other gifts especially in our time when we are warned for demons that mislead.
God is the giver of perfect gifts. But spirits can bring false tongues or gifts. I believe we need discernment next to all other gifts especially in our time when we are warned for demons that mislead.