Fairly sexual question... but it's been playing on my mind.

[jimmydiggs]

Like I said use good judgement, don't share your water.

Where did you hear about this water bottle issue? does that happen frequently or was it a 1 out of 10,000 type of thing? without providing specific information about a fact like that all it does is create paranoia, offer some substance to go along with your claims, if you don't there's not a lot I can say in response and I certainly won't believe it just because you say it.

1. Happened during a summer school class. I think it was in 2006.
2. As far as paranoia, read a college Microbiology text book, and tell me there isn't atleast a little concern about what you do created from it.
3. I do not promote paranoia, infact, I often tell others when an outbreak, such as the swine flu occurs, to wait before they run to the local health clinic to get stabbed with needles.

Our society has programmed us to live in continual fear of a wide variety of dangers (most of them irrational). We even have advertisements on TV for medications to "prevent" illnesses such as Meningitis or Hepatitis. But where is our faith in God?

Should we run out and get immunized for every little disease, or should we eat properly and trust our fate to God? The Bible says:

Yes, I agree. Infact, my very conservative business teacher and I talked about how peoples irrational fear for safety, causes prices to go up on goods, because we have to constantly add safety features. Some are beneficial, but many if not most are not. Is this country full of irrational fear? I completely agree.

We shouldn't run out and get immunized for every little disease, but some should be more than others. Would you discourage the elderly from getting a flu shot? Yes, we should eat properly. We should also put trust in god to our fate, logically.

While I did attend Sunday school at a methodist church in Kansas, a couple times I went to hear a sermon during regular service. The one I remember was, "having logical faith". The basic concept was, god will protect you, but you have to be willing to do some of your own work. We both would agree, faith in God probably will not keep us from being killed when we walk in front of a speeding freeway.

"He that feareth is not made perfect in love."

I don't think all fears are inherently evil. Some, yes. I would assume you fear drowning. I personally fear needles, some heights, rickitty bridges, huge amounts of debt, and a few others...

That verse of scripture - above - enables me to quickly determine both who is, and who is not a Christian; despite external appearances of religion. Christians do not walk around in fear of diseases and terrorists, else the Bible has lied to us.

Some diseases should be feared, not treated with hatred, but a little bit of fear of the consequences. We both would agree, that being a "man of the town", has many consequences, often including what can be some very painful diseases.

As far as the fear of terrorists. I to some extent agree, I think we are taking the wrong approach to terrorism. I think we should get our house in order, before we attempt to fix others. Even thought we shouldn't fix others houses. On the national stage that is.

I do think the global war on terror is bogus. I think we should just eliminate all ties to the middle east except for Israel. Israel is our only real concern in the region, if it wasn't for oil.

I could continue on this, but I will leave it at that.

 

[jimmydiggs]

Posting this, because I don't want ot wait 5 minutes to edit my first post.

EDIT: Just gunna throw this in at the bottom. Last year a couple kids in school got Lock Jaw, and recovered quickly. My mother, being the worrywort she is, decided she must have everyone immunized. I was totally opposed to the idea.


My dad is a Registered Nurse at the Veterans Affairs Hospital in Kansas City, Missouri. I have witnessed the sufferings of several veterans, I know what they have done, and will avoid doing so. Many were alcoholics, addicts, and obese. I have seen these sufferings. These are things ,that we know through science, are not exactly enjoyable.

Faith with Logic.

Science doesn't prove/explain everything. Some things it can though.

Am I personally going to make an attempt to be a vegetarian? NO. Am I going to make an attempt to not eat fast-food, to eat as many home cooked meals as I can, to not guzzle gallons of soda everyday. Diabetes and Obesity are severe problems in this country. Sometimes, a little bit of fear of the consequences are needed. Those who enjoy their worldy sins, and entirely reject even the most remote possibility of the existance of God, have no fear of the consequence of this.

 

[Matthew]

1. Happened during a summer school class. I think it was in 2006.
2. As far as paranoia, read a college Microbiology text book, and tell me there isn't atleast a little concern about what you do created from it.
3. I do not promote paranoia, infact, I often tell others when an outbreak, such as the swine flu occurs, to wait before they run to the local health clinic to get stabbed with needles.

So to your knowledge it happened one time 4 years ago, then based off that it's reasonable to say there is no significant danger in me sharing some water with a friend I know to be in good health?

You may not actively promote paranoia but to post that and then reveal the fact that you know it to have happened just one time years ago can only result in people reading that fact and then thinking to themsleves there is a danger in sharing a drink of water, paranoia may not be your intenetion but it could easily be the result, that's all I'm saying.

Of course I acknowledge there are dangers but I stand by my belief that good judgement will take care of most of them, reading text books without proper context is part of how these irrational fears get started, a lot of people don't understand that what they read in a textbook cannot be simply transferred into their own daily activites, but they fail to see that and adjust their actions to account for dangers that are not present.

 

[jimmydiggs]

So to your knowledge it happened one time 4 years ago, then based off that it's reasonable to say there is no significant danger in me sharing some water with a friend I know to be in good health?

If you know they are in good health, I personally see no reason not to. I attent Boy Scout Camp at H. Roe Bartle scout Reserveration regularly, and served on the staff last year teaching Law, Journalism, and Communications Merit Badges. Down there, there are a lot of things that go on concerned with sharing water with a friend. IT's hot, you are outdoors all the time. No air conditioning. Your friend is out of water, you let him drink some of yours. If you don't, he could dehydrate. When its 100 degrees that is a serious threat, something to fear. I would like to see you take the attitude of, "fear not" to a place like this. Some things are good to know about and be concerned about, to have a little bit of fear. Am I promoting ABSOLUTE PARANOIA? No. Logic with Faith.


Do I think people should test themselves for diseases before marriage? If both have not been "people of the town", I see no reason to. If one has been, and the other is still a virgin, this is a valid concern of the virgin. Atleast I would assume so. Is there anyone on this thread, that actually wants to contract herpes, gonorrhea, or other similar afflictions?

 

[NodMyHeadLikeYeah]

If you know they are in good health, I personally see no reason not to. I attent Boy Scout Camp at H. Roe Bartle scout Reserveration regularly, and served on the staff last year teaching Law, Journalism, and Communications Merit Badges. Down there, there are a lot of things that go on concerned with sharing water with a friend. IT's hot, you are outdoors all the time. No air conditioning. Your friend is out of water, you let him drink some of yours. If you don't, he could dehydrate. When its 100 degrees that is a serious threat, something to fear. I would like to see you take the attitude of, "fear not" to a place like this. Some things are good to know about and be concerned about, to have a little bit of fear. Am I promoting ABSOLUTE PARANOIA? No. Logic with Faith.


Do I think people should test themselves for diseases before marriage? If both have not been "people of the town", I see no reason to. If one has been, and the other is still a virgin, this is a valid concern of the virgin. Atleast I would assume so. Is there anyone on this thread, that actually wants to contract herpes, gonorrhea, or other similar afflictions?

Girl scout cookies are the best.. Do you have some of those?

 

[Matthew]

I attent Boy Scout Camp at H. Roe Bartle scout Reserveration regularly, and served on the staff last year teaching Law, Journalism, and Communications Merit Badges. Down there, there are a lot of things that go on concerned with sharing water with a friend. IT's hot, you are outdoors all the time. No air conditioning. Your friend is out of water, you let him drink some of yours. If you don't, he could dehydrate. When its 100 degrees that is a serious threat, something to fear. I would like to see you take the attitude of, "fear not" to a place like this.

Well it seems we agree, in the circumstances you mention it's obviously more difficult to guard against potential cross-contamination but even then there are still things you can do, like pour water out of your bottle and into their empty one etc.....good judgement.

My point is there is paranoia and then there's a healthy fear of dangers to our health, to come back to my original point there is too much worry at large about STD's and people are beginning to see everyone as a carrier until proven otherwise with a test, and I think it's sad to go through life seeing danger in all quarters, we should try and remember to think the best of people not the worst, and to answer your other question, NO I DON'T WANT AN STD.....but I think that goes without saying.

 

[QuestionTime]

Indeed, Genesis 38:9 says that Onan spilled his seed. Gen. 38:10, the very next verse, states, "What he did was wicked in the LORD's sight; so he put him to death also." Or, from the KJV "And the thing which he did displeased the LORD: wherefore he slew him also." Where are you getting it was his "deceit?"

I get that it was "deceit" by reading the entire story instead of two verses. He could have told his father "no" but he didn't. He instead was lying to his father pretending that he was fulfilling his duty. This was a lie against God also and quite possibly his brother's wife. (I did explain this in my original response to your message).

As for the rest of your response, It is something that you have forced me to consider. Calvin and Augustine - in my opinion - were a little bit 'off' in some areas, so I don't hold their opinions to highly. The papacy I have zero respect for - as you know - so I don't hold their opinions highly either. But, I will consider the opinions of the old saints that I do respect, and I will consider this issue in the light of scripture.

Last night I saw a great sermon that taught me what Exegesis is and what Eisegesis is, and how that Christendom tends to interpret the Bible by Eisegesis rather than Exegesis. I have been guilty of this as well for 17 years, but I will not be guilty of it any longer.

Quest

 

[jimmydiggs]

Girl scout cookies are the best.. Do you have some of those?

No. Boy Scouts are loyal through and through. We don't buy Girl Scout cookies. Communists buy Girl Scout cookies. Patriots buy Boy Scout Popcorn.

Well it seems we agree, in the circumstances you mention it's obviously more difficult to guard against potential cross-contamination but even then there are still things you can do, like pour water out of your bottle and into their empty one etc.....good judgement.

Their mouths never touched my water jug. They held it above their mouth and let it pour in, as much as they needed. Because as staff members, we were told over and over, to fear possible dehydration. IT happens a lot at camp.

Not everyone is a carrier. There are factors. If a persons parent(s) have/had Herpes or AIDS when they were born, there is a possibility of it being passed on. Much more so for AIDS than for Herpes.


Yes, we should look for good things in people, we should treat people as we wish to be treated.

Logic with faith, is what I say. None of us here could honestly say we would jump off of a skyscraper and say, "I have no fear, god will save me".


A common saying in the midwest, especially amongst farmers. God helps those who help themselves; for everyone else, there's the government.

 

[kiwi_OT]

Why has everyone gone off topic? The point about this thread was to discuss biblical view of contraception. If you've gone off topic start a new thread instead of dredging up this one

 

[tryingtofindhim]

I have recently met the love of my life. Thank the lord, he has confirmed it to both of us personally... hahaha for me... a little more of a hammering was necessary than for my love, as I'm a little slow on the uptake. But now i'm totally on board!
Something that has been playing on my mind is this: If, once we are married, and are totally following the will of God in our lives, should we use contraception if we do not want children right away, or just trust that God will bring a child along in his perfect timing?
Do natural laws some into play here? Is this the same as walking outside and getting pooped on by a bird, or getting rained on, or a wild animal attack? or any other number of random natural occurrences that can just happen if you're not taking precautions??
Is this different? Should we be taking precautions as Christians walking with God, or should we be trusting him so completely that we don't even use contraception?

Not really an issue for a long while yet, but id like some feedback.

My loves in Christ - D

If you're married, why not?

 

[tryingtofindhim]

Our society has programmed us to live in continual fear of a wide variety of dangers (most of them irrational). We even have advertisements on TV for medications to "prevent" illnesses such as Meningitis or Hepatitis. But where is our faith in God?

Should we run out and get immunized for every little disease, or should we eat properly and trust our fate to God? The Bible says:

1 John 4:18
18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.
KJV

That verse of scripture - above - enables me to quickly determine both who is, and who is not a Christian; despite external appearances of religion. Christians do not walk around in fear of diseases and terrorists, else the Bible has lied to us.

Ps 103:2-3
2 Bless the LORD, O my soul, and forget not all his benefits:
3 Who forgiveth all thine iniquities; who healeth all thy diseases;
KJV

Ps 23:4
4 Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.
KJV

Quest

Yes, we should have faith in God, but God has provided health care for us. Let's be smart and use all the God given resources we have.

 

[Kaitlin]

I didn't read all the posts, but I agree with Maddog. I'm not in a position to use nothing in my marriage, but we use Natural Family Planning, with the help of the device LadyComp (there are other similar devices available), but basically, it's the temperature method, you can do that with a sheet of paper and a good thermometer. I advise both of you to get to know her body (starting now; for him, in theory for now), learn to read the signs. There is a great, thorough (Christian!) book on this, a manual to learn NFP by yourself: The Art of Natural Family Planning by Kippley Amazon.com: The Art of Natural Family Planning (9780926412132): John F. Kippley, Sheila K.… (We used the pill in the beginning of our marriage, until we learned that it can be abortive, as already said in this thread). NFP is very easy to learn and to do

 

[Kaitlin]

I highly suggest that both you and your spouce only have kids when you are fully prepared and you know you marriage is strong and you both are complete in the time you have had together and want to finally grow in bring in new members to your family by having kids.

I don't think you can ever be fully prepared, and I think your marriage can become stronger after you became parents ... Children are such a blessing, and raising them allows you to grow and mature in Christ, much more than when you're not responsible for anyone but yourself (and your spouse if you will).

Have your time together before you marry; imo if you're ready to marry (a lifetime commitment is a big deal), you're also ready to have children.

Above all, seek God, pray, ask, listen, listen some more, follow the lead of the Holy Spirit. Obey Him and allow Him to bless you and trust Him to provide in everything you need (emotionally, in strength, financially... literally in everything).

 

[Frizzy]

I just want to say, that I was conceived whilst my parents were on contraception (pill AND condoms). So were two of my siblings. If God wants you to have children no physical boundry you put into place will help lol.

 

[nanabean]

I don't think you can ever be fully prepared, and I think your marriage can become stronger after you became parents ... Children are such a blessing, and raising them allows you to grow and mature in Christ, much more than when you're not responsible for anyone but yourself (and your spouse if you will).

Have your time together before you marry; imo if you're ready to marry (a lifetime commitment is a big deal), you're also ready to have children.

Above all, seek God, pray, ask, listen, listen some more, follow the lead of the Holy Spirit. Obey Him and allow Him to bless you and trust Him to provide in everything you need (emotionally, in strength, financially... literally in everything).

Amen...I agree with this!!! My hubby and I thought we would wait 'til we were "ready" to have children....I guess God knew what we needed more than WE did huh?? I had our first little girl nine months and two days after our wedding!! And we couldn't have and couldn't be any happier either!!!! When our second baby girl came into our world two days shy of a year and a half later, we weren't any more "prepared" for a second one than we were for a first one (other than clothes, crib, etc..hahhaa) But again....what blessings they both were!!!! ((((and still ARE...23 and 24 years later!!!))))

This thread has gone very off topic, but all I think I'd have to say on the original questions concerning birth control is that we each have to make our own choices, based on what we believe and also on necessity. (There may well be medical reasons to consider.) It may be wise to discuss things with a doctor, read up on different forms of birth control and above all else talk with your spouse and pray!!! Also, if you want to know what is "biblical"....well, everyone has a difference of opinion on interpreting the bible, I'd say delve in, read scripture for yourself so you can form your own insight.

And enjoy those babies whenever they may come.....whether you are ready or not!!! hahaha (you will be!!!)

 

[QuestionTime]

No. Boy Scouts are loyal through and through. We don't buy Girl Scout cookies. Communists buy Girl Scout cookies. Patriots buy Boy Scout Popcorn.

Thems fightin words.

Quest

 

[tryingtofindhim]

Here's a great video of Bill Gates talking about how vaccines will reduce the population:

YouTube - Bill Gates Admits Vaccines Are Used for Human Depopulation

What? Vaccines reduce the population? The rich and powerful want to depopulate?

Better not go out and get that H1N1 shot. Instead, trust God and eat as healthy as possible, avoiding medical care as much as possible.

Quest

Yah, I'm dependent on medical care or I'd die so I'll take use the resources God has blessed us with If people want to use them for evil, that's their problem

 

[QuestionTime]

Yah, I'm dependent on medical care or I'd die so I'll take use the resources God has blessed us with If people want to use them for evil, that's their problem

Well, I'm sorry for your circumstances. That's not a happy way to live. I know that I sure don't enjoy being sick.

Don't give up on faith though, Jesus is the same yesterday, today and forever. If He loved to heal the sick then, He still loves to heal now.

Quest

 

[tryingtofindhim]

Well, I'm sorry for your circumstances. That's not a happy way to live. I know that I sure don't enjoy being sick.

Don't give up on faith though, Jesus is the same yesterday, today and forever. If He loved to heal the sick then, He still loves to heal now.

Quest

It's all good. I'm blessed that I don't have cancer or anything. Its just asthma. I haven't given up faith I realize if Jesus wants to heal me he will, but I also don't want to be like Jesus heals and not use my inhaler. That's why we have a brain so we can have common sense.

 

[greatkraw]

I have recently met the love of my life. Thank the lord, he has confirmed it to both of us personally... hahaha for me... a little more of a hammering was necessary than for my love, as I'm a little slow on the uptake. But now i'm totally on board!
Something that has been playing on my mind is this: If, once we are married, and are totally following the will of God in our lives, should we use contraception if we do not want children right away, or just trust that God will bring a child along in his perfect timing?
Do natural laws some into play here? Is this the same as walking outside and getting pooped on by a bird, or getting rained on, or a wild animal attack? or any other number of random natural occurrences that can just happen if you're not taking precautions??
Is this different? Should we be taking precautions as Christians walking with God, or should we be trusting him so completely that we don't even use contraception?

Not really an issue for a long while yet, but id like some feedback.

My loves in Christ - D

I asked a friend whether he was going to trust God for family planning or contraception

He told me he was putting faith in the pill

It turns out that he was really putting faith in his wife to actually take it

He THOUGHT they had agreed on having 2 children

4 children later he decides there is only one way to be sure there wont be any more!!!