Have You Considered This About Marriage

BeeD · Jul 4, 2014

Many Christians speak of divorce as if it is a deadly sin. No matter how severe the problem is in the marriage most will tell you to stick it out and pray about it, or even stay in it no matter what, because "God hates divorce." As I was doing a detailed study on marriage and divorce yesterday in my bible, something else came to mind.....which really had nothing to do with marriage actually. The scripture where Jesus was speaking to the people and telling the parable of the farmer who had wheat planted among his tares by an enemy just started running through my head. And I considered this. Has anyone ever considered that maybe some, or even many of these "Christian marriages" are absolutely horrible and unbearable to live in, because that is exactly the case....that Satan, the enemy, has planted one of his people (the tare---as our spouse) among us, (the true Christians...wheat), in an attempt to make our lives so unbearable, in an attempt to destroy us. Yet when this person's true nature comes out and is proven to not be a child of God at all, but indeed a child of the enemy....we as Christians tell them they have to stay, just for the fact that they married them. If God tells us to not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers, and that a Christian woman, who's spouse dies can remarry but only to another believer...then why in the world would we think that God would be angry with us for getting away from a son or daughter of Satan, who deceived us from the beginning like a spy sent to destroy a city from the inside ??? Can you really see God saying. "Well you were not supposed to marry an unbeliever in the first place, and I know he or she tricked you by lying and pretending to be a Christian until after you got married, and I see they are making your life hell on earth, but since you are married to them, even though he or she is clearly not my child....you have to stay with them." Seriously....I don't. And besides, for the Christians who are using the scripture that says "And unto the married I command, yet not I, but the Lord, Let not the wife depart from her husband: But and if she depart, let her remain unmarried or be reconciled to her husband: and let not the husband put away his wife." Paul is speaking to a couple where both the husband and the wife are Christians. A Christian husband is forbidden to divorce his Christian wife, and a Christian wife is forbidden to divorce or separate from her Christian husband. Because if you notice the next verse after that Paul says "But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away. And the woman which hath an husband that believeth not, and if he be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him. God never commanded that a believer has to stay with an unbeliever.

John_agape · Jul 4, 2014

A good point.

dabodab · Jul 4, 2014

Hi BeeD,

I was a 'believing' wife to my children's father, but was sick and stricken with pain and guilt about my past, and needed counsel and all kinds of help that I didn't know how to ask for. That poor man suffered much through our marriage because of my immaturity and episodes of rage. Let me reiterate that I was a child of God, saved by grace. My husband could have made the same argument as you are making about his mate not being a Christian, but he would have been wrong.

Please, don't determine that someone isn't a Christian because they are behaving badly.

Does scripture say we are free to leave our unbelieving mate?

We have the scriptures to back up our conclusions. Rather though, shouldn't we make the scriptures our conclusion?

Paul said "not The Lord, but I say"... He kinda said that here too, in 1Corr7:40 regarding a widow re-marrying. Paul added "I think that I have the spirit of The Lord" after giving what may seem like an opinion.

Is it wise to take Apostle Paul's counsel to heart? I think it is.

BeeD · Jul 4, 2014

BeeD said:

Misprint.....I meant "tares among his wheat"

BeeD · Jul 4, 2014

dabodab said:

There are many people who claim they are children of God but their actions prove otherwise....I am not speaking of you personally right now because I don't know you. But as Jesus says, "They confess me with their mouths but in their works they deny me." and He also said, "If you love me you would keep my commandments." I am not saying that everyone who does wrong, or is struggling in their walk with God and their own personal issues is necessarily an unsaved person. But there are people who are claiming to be children of God, yet they make no attempts to obey his word and his teachings....and when they continually sin the first thing they say is "God is a forgiving God" in an attempt to continue and excuse their behavior. When Paul makes statements saying he is giving his advice, it is because he does want people to know they are not breaking any commandments of God if they don't take that advice. Many people can give wise advice and good suggestions for different situations, but that doesn't mean you are sinning if you choose not to take that advice. Paul also said 'it is good if people remained unmarried as he is'....or rather was, but you don't see many, if any Christians taking that advice. You asked "Does scripture say we are free to leave our unbelieving mate?" It doesn't say we are bound to stay with them.....that is why I put the verse where Paul says "But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away. And the woman which hath an husband that believeth not, and if he be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him." He is clearly telling you that God is not commanding you to stay with an unbelieving spouse but he suggests that you do, and this purpose is mainly for the benefit of the children they have together( "For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy.") But some Christian/Sinner marriages don't have children. He also says he suggest for one to stay with their unbelieving spouse IF the unbelieving spouse is pleased to dwell with the believer. If the unbeliever is being verbally, physically and emotionally abusive to the Christian spouse, do you consider that being pleased to dwell with them? I certainly don't. In this post I am speaking of Christians dwelling with unbelievers in marriage, not two Christians. And you can tell the difference between a Christian and an unbeliever if you watch them long enough....as Jesus said, "You shall know them by their fruits."......Be Blessed

tenderhearted · Jul 4, 2014

I don't believe that God expects us to remain in marriages where the spouse is physically and mentally abusive. If our safety is being jeopardized then common sense says you don't remain in that situation. However, I feel like that isn't most marriages... I feel like many people marry people without waiting to hear from God. They don't take the time to pray about who God's best is. Then when they are married they wonder why they are so miserable. However, even when you have chosen the spouse God has for you marriage isn't easy period. God uses our spouses to help refine us. To show us that relationship that Christ has with the church, and many times you may feel like you want to run lol. Then there are marriages where both are unbelieving and at some point down the line one of them gets saved, which makes marriage a challenge for that unbelieving spouse. In this case God's best would be to remain in the marriage and be that example for that spouse-- that unbelieving spouse is sanctified because of the believing spouse. This is my opinion on the subject.

BeeD · Jul 4, 2014

tenderhearted said:

I agree with you in such a case as this. If there is no abuse in the marriage due to the other spouse becoming saved. I knew of a situation such as this....not mine....But there was a woman and man who were unsaved when they were married. Later down the line she became saved and her husband resented her for it. He began to try to demand she not go to church and make her life hard because of it. When she wouldn't listen and would go anyway he would lock her outside and she would end up spending the night in the cold garage on the cement floor. I just want to say. I agree that a husband and wife should do everything within their ability to make their marriage work...saved or unsaved. But my entire point is that the church should stop putting people in bondage and making them suffer horrible treatment at the hand of their spouses, and telling them they have to stay with them and not divorce them because God doesn't want them to. And when they finally do say, "I just can't take it anymore" and divorce the abuser anyway....the church makes them feel they are the one who's wrong and condemned. My mother was watching a popular TV. Christian show....I choose not to say the name. A woman called into the show and told the minister that her husband keeps telling her he hates her and can't stand her and that he has never loved her. She said he is cheating on her and has basically cheated for the majority of their marriage and has pretty much let her know that he will continue to cheat. I guess the woman must have been a new Christian because she called to ask the minister's advice on whether she could leave him. She told the TV minister that they have 8 children together. When that minister heard that, he talked to the lady like she was very stupid for even asking such a question. He said to her, "Wait a minute, you are telling me you have 8 kids with this man and you are asking if you should leave him or not ?....of course not, yall have eight kids together"!!! Never mind that she just told him all of the abuse that she was suffering at his hands and what he, her husband, told her he would continue to do. The only thing he focused on what she needs to stay because of the kids. And this is supposed to be a well seasoned man of God who told her that. Now she is going to go continue to live in a horrible, abusive marriage because someone that she trusts that is a MINISTER has told her to do so. For reasons like this I have created this post.

presidente · Jul 4, 2014

In the parable of the tares, the field is the world, not the church. There is wheat in the world and there are tares.

Paul did not tell believers to divorce their unbelieving spouses. Peter told wives whose husbands do not obey the word to submit to their husbands, live in a pure way, and to adorn themselves with a meek and quiet spirit.

dabodab · Jul 4, 2014

BeeD said:

Jesus didn't say that, Paul did. Titus, 1:16 "They profess to know God, but they deny Him by their works" which describes the "defiled and unbelieving" (Titus 1:15). I understand why you would think Jesus said that. It's something we could hear Jesus say, it squares in our hearts that He may say it.

Yes, John 14:15, shortly after the feet washing, after the last supper, in that room when Jesus was ministering to the 12, He said "If you love me, keep my commandments". Sigh. I have to say keeping those commandments is not easy. We as humans fail miserably. But, there is grace for Jesus says just a little after "Peace I leave with you, my peace I give to you, not as the world gives do I give to you..." V. 27. This is for us, His peace. I'm really ministering to myself here! The peace of God which passes understanding keeping our hearts and minds on Christ Jesus. Phil. 4:7 This peace happens when we are in Gods will. This peace leaves us when we leave Gods will. I lived in that place a looooong time. I'm here to say that leaving my first marriage created it. I would not want that for anyone else.

The worlds way to peace is obviously not the child of God's way to peace, as evidenced in v. 27. The worlds way to peace is

Live comfortably
Let others believe you have no fault in your misery
Garner support from only those who believe in comfort and freedom from oppression
Always believe God has your back if comfort and perfection fail to give you peace

1Corr.7:25-26. I know many single adult Christians who aren't looking for a mate, and likewise also have married friends who are happy together. It's the difficult marriages that demand action. Sometimes we tear down our marriage with constant complaining instead of doing the work necessary to make things go better. Like prayer, counseling, opening communication, tolerance, acts of kindness, and on and on.

Since Paul's 'suggestion' or 'advice' is part of Holy scripture, I just have to call 'no way!' on this. Scripture is scripture. If someone will look at that scripture and say it is not part of God's commandment to us, what else is there in scriptures that could be 'suggestive'?

I think you are straining a gnat here with scripture. It appears you have an idea about how things should go, and are trying to extract scriptures that may line up with your agenda. Even more severe, you are claiming Paul's words are suggestions we don't need to regard as having authority! This is freaking me out a little. Just kidding... But do you see how hard you are working to find something that lines up with what you believe?

BeeD, this definitely sounds personal. 'Watching someone long enough'. Hmmmm. Is this about one of your children, or about you? Just asking.

presidente · Jul 5, 2014

BeeD said:

Giving Christians a life full of suffering does not seem to be high on God's list of priorities. There is suffering in this life and we are to glorify God by the way we live and overcome.

The commandment of the Lord Paul passed on did not specify that your spouse must be a believer for it to apply. The part about not being under bondage if the unbeliever leaves is in the part where Paul said, 'speak I, not the Lord."

notuptome · Jul 5, 2014

God never approved of divorce. God gave Moses latitude to allow divorce because of the hardness of the hearts of men. God does not approve of remarriage but again leave is given because young folks burn in their hearts.

Divorce men cannot minister as pastors in a church remarried or not. I cannot help but think that divorced people are hampered in their ability to minister in the church because they have been wounded by the experience. A testimony forever marred by divorce is a terrible thing and worthy of compassion but ought to be avoided if at all possible.

Those considering marriage need to give heed to good sound biblical counseling prior to marriage. Those who marry while unbelievers need to seek Gods mercy to gain unity in the household after they get saved. These are grave matters and not to be taken lightly. Much suffering and anguish comes from decisions made apart from the Lord in the matter of marriage.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

BeeD · Jul 5, 2014

dabodab.....I would like to discuss some of the things you put on this post but to me some things perhaps should not be said in open forum. I would love to PM you when we are both on, and have a more detailed discussion with you. I sent you a friend request as well.

tourist · Jul 5, 2014

BeeD said:

I agree with you in such a case as this. If there is no abuse in the marriage due to the other spouse becoming saved. I knew of a situation such as this....not mine....But there was a woman and man who were unsaved when they were married. Later down the line she became saved and her husband resented her for it. He began to try to demand she not go to church and make her life hard because of it. When she wouldn't listen and would go anyway he would lock her outside and she would end up spending the night in the cold garage on the cement floor. I just want to say. I agree that a husband and wife should do everything within their ability to make their marriage work...saved or unsaved. But my entire point is that the church should stop putting people in bondage and making them suffer horrible treatment at the hand of their spouses, and telling them they have to stay with them and not divorce them because God doesn't want them to. And when they finally do say, "I just can't take it anymore" and divorce the abuser anyway....the church makes them feel they are the one who's wrong and condemned. My mother was watching a popular TV. Christian show....I choose not to say the name. A woman called into the show and told the minister that her husband keeps telling her he hates her and can't stand her and that he has never loved her. She said he is cheating on her and has basically cheated for the majority of their marriage and has pretty much let her know that he will continue to cheat. I guess the woman must have been a new Christian because she called to ask the minister's advice on whether she could leave him. She told the TV minister that they have 8 children together. When that minister heard that, he talked to the lady like she was very stupid for even asking such a question. He said to her, "Wait a minute, you are telling me you have 8 kids with this man and you are asking if you should leave him or not ?....of course not, yall have eight kids together"!!! Never mind that she just told him all of the abuse that she was suffering at his hands and what he, her husband, told her he would continue to do. The only thing he focused on what she needs to stay because of the kids. And this is supposed to be a well seasoned man of God who told her that. Now she is going to go continue to live in a horrible, abusive marriage because someone that she trusts that is a MINISTER has told her to do so. For reasons like this I have created this post.

The pastor was insensitive to the woman's hurts due to his myopic view on what a marriage is suppose to be in the eyes of God. His problem is worse than the woman's but he is too blind to see.

dabodab · Jul 5, 2014

notuptome said:

I lam totally in agreement with what you have said here. Except this, that burning that young folks get ... I believe that burning is not from their hearts. After, it takes awhile to realize, for young persons who are Christians, that they married primarily because of this 'burning'. This is a common thread, I believe, in young Christians in the church getting married today. Many times the foundation of their decision is to have sex happily ever after with no condemnation.

Unfortunately they look at my generation and believe divorce is a viable option, later. This is our cruel testimony.

secularhermit · Jul 5, 2014

Well! I see two things mingled here...

Hope an oxen and an ass know why they shouldn't be yoked.

secularhermit · Jul 5, 2014

Are you planning to be divorced? or just finding "biblical" reasons to back it up?

secularhermit · Jul 5, 2014

"Let not the wife depart from her husband: But and if she depart, let her remain unmarried or be reconciled to her husband: and let not the husband put away his wife."

As far as I see this THOSE DAYS men always STAYED their "homes" (holding their properties) and women got a "Divorce Certificate".

Interesting thing to consider when being divorced:

A) Divorced from children or from the "bed" where they slept?

B) Divorced from the problems or from the material stuff BOTH worked ??? (sometimes ONE is the oxen, and another is the ass working).

C) Equally yoked?

D) From different breeds?

dabodab · Jul 5, 2014

BeeD said:

Yes that would be fine! I'm sorry for not seeing your post earlier. Not sure how the PM or friend request works, will look around and find out.

BeeD · Jul 5, 2014

dabodab said:

You put that in replying to statement that I put that said, "But as Jesus says, "They confess me with their mouths but in their works they deny me."

You are correct but that wasn't the one I was attempting to remember, where Jesus himself was saying something to this effect. I looked it up and found the one I was thinking of. (Matthew 15:8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.") I knew Jesus was the one who said this.

BeeD · Jul 5, 2014

If you would carefully read the other replies that I have made to the other people that I have replied to that posted you will see that I have stated at least two or three times why I have made this post....your question has been answered.

Have You Considered This About Marriage

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