public high school

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Fenner

Senior Member
Jan 26, 2013
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#61
Bullying is one thing I will not tolorate and I can tell you as someone who works with the Preschool kid's, it starts young. Sometimes they don't understand what they're saying isn't nice, but there are some kids who can be little snots to other kid's. I had a problem last week with a kid picking on another kid who clearly has issues that are out of his control. The first time he called him weird, I made him apologize and talked to him about it. The second time he said it, I took away some of his playtime, when he said, not fair and he is weird, I wrote a note to his Mom and said to him, well if you want to go around picking on Kid's that are different than you, then it's my job to make sure you have consequences to deal with and if you say it again you won't get a snack today and you'll miss a week of playtime.

I can only do what I can do but if I see a kid getting bullied your darn right I'm going to be sure the bully is punished. Unfortunately you got some kid's who just seem to deem it their responsibility to pick on the people that aren't like them and I can't stand it.
 
Feb 7, 2015
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#62
Bullying is one thing I will not tolorate and I can tell you as someone who works with the Preschool kid's, it starts young. Sometimes they don't understand what they're saying isn't nice, but there are some kids who can be little snots to other kid's. I had a problem last week with a kid picking on another kid who clearly has issues that are out of his control. The first time he called him weird, I made him apologize and talked to him about it. The second time he said it, I took away some of his playtime, when he said, not fair and he is weird, I wrote a note to his Mom and said to him, well if you want to go around picking on Kid's that are different than you, then it's my job to make sure you have consequences to deal with and if you say it again you won't get a snack today and you'll miss a week of playtime.

I can only do what I can do but if I see a kid getting bullied your darn right I'm going to be sure the bully is punished. Unfortunately you got some kid's who just seem to deem it their responsibility to pick on the people that aren't like them and I can't stand it.
Do you have any conception of what happens to kids who get known for hiding behind the teacher's skirts? It may work right now, but several years on down the road when that child has learned to run to and rely upon that protection... usually getting the other kid in trouble for using that method, it is going to make the protected one a target... and make his life a living hell whenever the Big Protector isn't around. They grow up never knowing any way to handle social stress, except to have the teacher intervene for them.

This is not good, at all. And in their teen years, when the other kids have learned to evade the protective teacher, that poor, inadequately equipped child often turns to the only "escape" they feel is now available to them. And we are sometimes attending another funeral.
 

Fenner

Senior Member
Jan 26, 2013
7,507
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#63
Do you have any conception of what happens to kids who get known for hiding behind the teacher's skirts? It may work right now, but several years on down the road when that child has learned to run to and rely upon that protection... usually getting the other kid in trouble for using that method, it is going to make the protected one a target... and make his life a living hell whenever the Big Protector isn't around. They grow up never knowing any way to handle social stress, except to have the teacher intervene for them.

This is not good, at all. And in their teen years, when the other kids have learned to evade the protective teacher, that poor, inadequately equipped child often turns to the only "escape" they feel is now available to them. And we are sometimes attending another funeral.


Well this child has Aspergers and he didn't tell me the kid was calling him weird I heard it. So what are you saying? Adults aren't supposed to step up and help? It's not okay for these kid's to be bullying others and if an adult knows they should certainly step in.
 

Fenner

Senior Member
Jan 26, 2013
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#64
Willie not every situation is the same. You can't just always get a gang to step up and work with you. What about the shy kid who has no one else? It's important to teach bullies at a young age that there are consequences to their behavior and it will be dealt with. Sometimes the bully might have some issues going on and that kid might need help too. Looking away and letting boys be boys isn't wise.
 
Feb 7, 2015
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#65
Well this child has Aspergers and he didn't tell me the kid was calling him weird I heard it. So what are you saying? Adults aren't supposed to step up and help? It's not okay for these kid's to be bullying others and if an adult knows they should certainly step in.
Have you considered convincing the other kid to help you with him "because you feel he is a leader, and will be an example others can look up to".... or any other thing you see that you can positively use to help the aggressive child understand the good influence they can be as he acts on your behalf to keep the other kids safe?

I'm telling you, it is not good to develop a reactive animosity of other kids who get him into trouble by running to you.
 
H

Hellooo

Guest
#66
At the dog park, I've observed that when one dog starts really bothering another dog, many other dogs will also rush over and gang up on that same dog

My dog is very sweet and usually submissive but as soon as another dog tries to mount her she snaps and the other dog will cower or back away.
 
Feb 7, 2015
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#67
Willie not every situation is the same. You can't just always get a gang to step up and work with you. What about the shy kid who has no one else? It's important to teach bullies at a young age that there are consequences to their behavior and it will be dealt with. Sometimes the bully might have some issues going on and that kid might need help too. Looking away and letting boys be boys isn't wise.
You know durn well I never suggested that. I said to let them learn what they can to figure out to overcome a bad situation.
 
Feb 7, 2015
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#68
No one seems to be catching on to the horrors they may be setting a child up for when they are no longer there for them to run to.
 

Fenner

Senior Member
Jan 26, 2013
7,507
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#69
Have you considered convincing the other kid to help you with him "because you feel he is a leader, and will be an example others can look up to".... or any other thing you see that you can positively use to help the aggressive child understand the good influence they can be as he acts on your behalf to keep the other kids safe?

I'm telling you, it is not good to develop a reactive animosity of other kids who get him into trouble by running to you.

No one ran to me to tell on him. There are 9 kids in that classroom and he said out loud, hey isn't this person weird? I gave this child the benefit of the doubt and pulled him aside privately to talk to him thinking, maybe he thinks it's funny, he doesn't understand. He did it again so I told him quietly that he'd be sitting out for five minutes of play time. I didn't scream at him, but I can't let him degrade this other child in front of the class. We actually have a good relationship with the kid that did the name calling. He talks to me a lot. But he does this stuff a lot and the other teacher and I hear him. I've actually asked for his help to make this and another child who's very shy comfortable. It works for a day or two.

I don't belittle kids in front of other kids, but I can't let him go around calling these other kids names. I know he needs attention and he gets a lot of positive attention but what would I be teaching him by letting him call these other kid's names? Oh he also likes to shove crayons up his nose and eat stuff that he finds on the carpet, should I just let him do that too? Oh and the other day he took off and jumped down a bunch of steps. Next time instead of having him go back up the steps and come down the right way, I'll just let him jump from now on and break his face. The school will probably get sued but as long as he grows up not being a "snowflake ", it's okay.
 
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Taro

Senior Member
Apr 12, 2017
176
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#70
No one seems to be catching on to the horrors they may be setting a child up for when they are no longer there for them to run to.
I understand where you're coming from. When my son was being bullied, I talked to his teacher on five occasions but got nowhere with her and then went to the principle 3 times and not much was being done. It was frustrating so I decided to put him in karate and told him to not be afraid to defend himself and if he got in trouble I would deal with the school myself. He hasn't gotten bullied ever since.
 
Feb 7, 2015
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#71
I understand where you're coming from. When my son was being bullied, I talked to his teacher on five occasions but got nowhere with her and then went to the principle 3 times and not much was being done. It was frustrating so I decided to put him in karate and told him to not be afraid to defend himself and if he got in trouble I would deal with the school myself. He hasn't gotten bullied ever since.
And, that boy now knows that he has the confidence that he will find answers for just about any problems, of any kind, for the rest of his life... on his own.
 
Feb 7, 2015
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#72
No one ran to me to tell on him. There are 9 kids in that classroom and he said out loud, hey isn't this person weird? I gave this child the benefit of the doubt and pulled him aside privately to talk to him thinking, maybe he thinks it's funny, he doesn't understand. He did it again so I told him quietly that he'd be sitting out for five minutes of play time. I didn't scream at him, but I can't let him degrade this other child in front of the class. We actually have a good relationship with the kid that did the name calling. He talks to me a lot. But he does this stuff a lot and the other teacher and I hear him. I've actually asked for his help to make this and another child who's very shy comfortable. It works for a day or two.

I don't belittle kids in front of other kids, but I can't let him go around calling these other kids names. I know he needs attention and he gets a lot of positive attention but what would I be teaching him by letting him call these other kid's names? Oh he also likes to shove crayons up his nose and eat stuff that he finds on the carpet, should I just let him do that too? Oh and the other day he took off and jumped down a bunch of steps. Next time instead of having him go back up the steps and come down the right way, I'll just let him jump from now on and break his face. The school will probably get sued but as long as he grows up not being a "snowflake ", it's okay.
Gosh! You mean this pre-schooler didn't just take the reigns and continue on with that behavior on his own?

Of course it didn't last. Nothing ever does with kids without positive, steady, ongoing encouragement and even positive rewards.......... often for the entire school year.
 

Silverwings

Senior Member
Jul 27, 2016
1,368
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#73
I wouldn't argue with that, one bit. But, handling bullies is to be taught by parents, not foisted off onto teachers to deal with. As I said before, most bullying does not happen at school, nor even during school hours.

But kids that are bullies, usually have parents that are bullies.
 

Fenner

Senior Member
Jan 26, 2013
7,507
111
0
#74
Gosh! You mean this pre-schooler didn't just take the reigns and continue on with that behavior on his own?

Of course it didn't last. Nothing ever does with kids without positive, steady, ongoing encouragement and even positive rewards.......... often for the entire school year.

You act like we don't do that, you aren't in my class you have no idea. But you act like we should just let this child belittle and push around other kid's with no consequences. I've also told other kid's to ask him to stop when he bothers him.

Teachers aren't monsters Willie. But we have a responsibility to keep all the kid's safe in our classroom. I care about him just as much as I care about the kid's he's picked on. It's obvious from reading through this thread that you have no room to listen to other opinions. Your mind is made up, so I'm done. Good day.
 
Feb 7, 2015
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#75
But kids that are bullies, usually have parents that are bullies.
Then the teachers have to actually teach the ones they, instead, often label "bullies", and simply resort to punishing. All you teach a five year-old by showing him that he loses something and suffers every time that other kids runs to the teacher (and that is about all his little mind can see) is that other kid really is what is causing him all this grief.

He does not yet have the deductive powers we often expect him to sit down and reason with.
 

Fenner

Senior Member
Jan 26, 2013
7,507
111
0
#76
Then the teachers have to actually teach the ones they, instead, often label "bullies", and simply resort to punishing. All you teach a five year-old by showing him that he loses something and suffers every time that other kids runs to the teacher (and that is about all his little mind can see) is that other kid really is what is causing him all this grief.

He does not yet have the deductive powers we often expect him to sit down and reason with.

I get that, he's 5 and next year he'll go to Kindergarten and probably have 24 kid's in his class and maybe only one teacher. I know this boy is really smart and he's also very artistic, there's no doubt in my mind that this boy will ace academically. I also think given time he will calm down a bit too. But to the other kid's in that class if I just let him do the things he wants, like chuck toys across the room and hit someone, which he's done many times, or name call and push other kid's and have him face no consequences, wouldn't you as a parent of one of the other children in that class be kind of angry that we didn't try to make him stop?

He's not a horrible kid and when he does good things he gets praised. But losing 5 minutes of playtime isn't going to scar him for life. One of the other kid's was actually afraid to come to school because this child would constantly pick at him. I separated them as much as possible. They're good now, but it was tough. How would you feel if your child was afraid to go to school because of another child's behavior towards them? My Daughter who's shy and sweet was picked on by other girls for a while. And I DID tell her to tell them to stop and walk away. Do you know how difficult it was to send my kid into the lions den? The bullying has stopped and she's better but the little confidence that she had was shot. She already has anxiety, through counseling things have gotten better.

It baffles me how anyone thinks that we should just gang up on a bully and magically that kid will stop. Yeah they'll stop with you, then they'll move on to the next kid the perceive as weak.

In a classroom most teachers do the best they can. I can't control what this kid learns at home or other places. Back in the day the way they controlled behavior problems was a paddle, which I wouldn't do to any kid. But we can't let any kid be out of control and scare other kid's. Frankly because he's only 5 the behavior concerns me a bit. He's also quoted The Walking Dead, which is alarming that someone his age has seen the show and has a favorite character. I've never seen the show, but what I understand it's not for kid's.

I hope the remainder of his school years are good ones and I definitely haven't labeled him a bully. I'm going to say it again, you can't just let him run amuck and take over. He gets 3 warnings before he loses at the most 5 minutes of playtime, it's not like we just say, okay you had a bad moment you're done. But he has to learn that there are rules. Do you not agree with that?

My own kid's had time outs in preschool and at home too. When my son was 3 and he would whack his two year old Sister, 3 minute time out. I suppose I did that wrong to though. I should have let him beat the heck of her because was only 3 and hitting is a natural part of life. I guess my poor kid's will be snowflakes because I don't let them beat the crap out of each other.
 

abcdef

Senior Member
Mar 30, 2016
2,809
111
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#77
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We live in a place between the spirit and the material, the animal and the spiritual.

A battle within us, that takes place for all of our lives.

----

Children live in this world also, but they are less in control of their "reactions" and situations than adults.

When infants are hungry, need changing, are hurt, they cry, the reaction is not in their control.

As they age, they become more in control and express the "reactions" in different outlets.

The outlets are learned primarily by observing and replicating the reactions of others around them, parents and siblings.

The actions of others at infant/toddler ages will influence the reaction process for the rest of the child's life.

It is this reactive process, that is learned by the child, as it ages from not having any control over reactions to having some control, which causes children to react the way that they do when an event happens.

The teacher must now, in some cases, try to undo the ingrained reactive process, while at the same time, "steering" the child to reason from uncontrolled reactions, crying for example.

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Parents are not perfect, teachers are not perfect, nobody is (except Jesus).

So we are placing parents, teachers, and students in a "personality blender", where there are people and events that are out of control.

The schools try their best to keep the students and events safely under control.

But when the number of students increases, per teacher, the individual student suffers the consequences.

The time needed to "steer" the student lessens, the time to teach control lessens, and oh yes, they still are required to educate them at the same time, math, etc.

The influences of the other students is not in control as it should be for a good teaching environment.

And the influence of the parent, especially if it is contrary to what the teacher says, can be detrimental.

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When you get to high school, add many other "modern" influences, as well as physical changes.

Now let's throw into the mix government, money, taxes, voting, religion, etc.

The high school student is left behind, and the bullied student is left with few options.

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Respect must be learned, when the parent shows no respect for others, the reactions are learned from that parent.

My father, whom I love, used a willow whip on me, to teach respect, I had to break the branch off myself and give it to him.

I think that in the old days if you were not respectful (to the king) you might end up dead, it is still that way to some degree.

But children don't always know that, we have to teach them not to play with dangerous things, power tools say.

Being a bully is dangerous, asking for trouble, and eventually they find it.

It sometimes costs them their own life or the life of others.

---

It is the animal side that is the bully, ego, selfish, brutish, the "natural" man.

It is the spiritual side that is respectful, loving, and sensitive to the needs of others, to love and be loved.

To some degree, the spirit of love and respect, must be taught, to the animal.

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How can we expect the schools to bear this burden, when the public won't finance the schools to the degree that is needed to accomplish this?

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Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
24,703
13,385
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#78
(with tongue in cheek...)

Breaking news: By 2018-9, all public schools in Canada could be high...