Re-Criminalize abortion; 30-days to 9-months

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HeraldtheNews

Well-known member
Apr 26, 2012
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#1
I've left chat for a while, and leaving the forum too. But, a few parting thoughts--
I feel abortion needs to be re-criminalized. As it stands now, life in the womb has no value placed on it by society's laws. This is what is feeding the "nothing matters," mentality in the world. Can you imagine the horror of a woman terminating a multiple birth? it's the same with one baby. I used to be lukewarm on abortion-- against it, but not in favor of imposing law on pregnant women. Now, i feel that a lady should be given every opportunity-- over an extended period of time, to keep her baby, and then if she refuses, she should face imprisonment. Not long, and not in the general population. Just long enough to send a message that society values the lives of the unborn. At least 30 days considering the circumstances, such as term of pregnancy.

The thing is, an embryo, from the moment of conception, has the exact sacred value as a person 100 years old. The spiritual world does not recognize the restrictions of time or space or size. That's why an embryo, many thousands of times smaller than a full-grown person, both have the same sacred value in the eyes of God.
To further understand this idea, think of one hydrogen molecule. A person is made up of millions upon millions of them. While a hydrogen molecule does not have value in terms of life, the splitting of one hydrogen molecule can take out an area the size of Kuwait, the place of the first Desert Storm war and effect the whole earth. One hydrogen molecule. God became one of us in the person of Jesus of Nazareth, and He began his Life here on earth in a miraculous conception. When He returns, He will fill the Heavens. I was blessed to have an awesome dream about this many years ago. In the dream, power approached the earth, and a sense of expectancy that multiplied exponentially like yeast does, until Jesus appeared in the sky and every head turned, involuntarily to face Him--even burial skulls. One embryo. So, Life does have value from conception to natural birth, and the laws need to begin to reflect this truth.

I have the authority and right to say this, even as a male person, since, as an unwanted/unexpected child, my life was spared by a heroic birth mother. Even in my own family, one so-called unwanted child touched the lives of thousands of people with God's caring healing ministry. Hopefully, I can do the same someday.
harold the herald
 

damombomb

Senior Member
Feb 27, 2011
3,801
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#2
I agree childlbirh is a miracle and gift from God
Everyone has been born for a purpose
 

Nautilus

Senior Member
Jun 29, 2012
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#3
well good you follow the tenets of our religion. Now find me the place where we are to force everyone else to live by our opinions?
 

HeraldtheNews

Well-known member
Apr 26, 2012
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#4
Well, I agree that "criminalize," is a strong word. And these are not just my opinions, and only a community, not individuals, can guide people's ethical decisions, under sane Christian guidance, not "force" people to do things. And, maybe 30 days is a long time, and longer would be for serious offenses. But, when a lady terminates her unborn child's life, especially after a certain passage of time, it must be more than just a slap on the wrist. Either Life is sacred, and society values it or not. Life in the womb does not become more sacred after a certain passage of time, but legal responsibility should increase over time. I don't support coercion of women expecting a child, but, for society to begin to move in a direction that values life, and that is supported by the courts, a lady expecting a child should receive extended education regarding the value of the life within her, over a period of days and weeks. Then, if she ends a helpless life, an act of evil, she should lose her own freedom for a period of time and it should appear on her record. The liberal mentality, or the secular, doesn't comprehend this reasoning. And, it is not just my own opinion. It is a reflection of a moral consensus that crosses secular and religious lines, one that I agree with and share. And, I wouldn't force it on anyone, unless I had legal authority over a daughter. If she fell into the hands of the wolves of a Godless and liberal world, I would show her God's mercy and compassion, as God has shown me throughout a sinful life. The Psalms were often quoted by Jesus and they are said to be his own prayer book. Psalm 99 says, regarding the people of God, the Israelites: "You were to them God-Who-Forgives, though You took vengeance on their deeds." (Psalm 99:8). Most people in this forum would agree this has been their experience in life, myself included. This is what Father's do. We may not like it, but God makes up the rules. Whether it's regarding marriage, or intimacy or the value of life.

Looking back at my post, I see that it wasn't conservative ranting, and neither is this one. I agree with and support everything I have written here, and would face death to defend it. These views are authoritative because they are supported by the Bible and a universal consensus of morality. As an individual Christian, I have no authority to enforce them. I can assure you, God does.
 

Nautilus

Senior Member
Jun 29, 2012
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#5
The fetus in the womb becomes sacred once its born and takes its first breath
 

HeraldtheNews

Well-known member
Apr 26, 2012
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#6
There is a famous picture of an unborn baby at 18 weeks resting quietly and peacefully with her thumb in her mouth, the Leonnart Nielson photo. So, you are suggesting that this baby, suddenly BECOMES sacred once it is born, but not the day before, or at 7-months, when it could survive outside the womb? Was it dead before that?

Psalm 139 says "Your eyes saw my substance, being yet unformed. And in Your book they all were written, the days fashioned for me, when as yet there were none of them." (Psalm 139:16).

In the Gospel of Luke, Mary, who is expecting Jesus, is visited by her cousin Elizabeth who is expecting John the Baptist. At the sound of Mary's voice, Elizabeth's baby "leaped in her womb; and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit." (Luke 1:41).

in Psalm 139, God acknowledges the unborn baby's "substance." And if Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit, and her baby leaped for joy, then her baby was filled with the Holy Spirit as well. These two scriptures show that the unborn baby is sacred before birth.
 
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Relena7

Guest
#7
God gives us the choice to do wrong or do right. If abortion becomes a crime, aren't we then trying to play God?

Aborted babies all go to heaven. Not all murdered adults go to heaven. For that reason, it is different.

I'm not saying abortion is right, but I don't think it should be a crime.
 
S

sweetspiritgirl

Guest
#8
A crime to the world no... But to God yes!! We live in a world where people have become lovers of themselves instead of lovers of God. They live to plz themselves and value themselves. Life began when God called them by name...and choose the mother of a child. When she refuses to take care of his beloved , thats between him and her. When it comes to abortion...I pray against it because its not about what I believe...Its what my Father wants ,and what he wants i want also. But I can say this...To critisize a person and make them for low is wrong...cant expect the world to understand the Love of God from fumming angry christians..To understand the love of God and all his glory then you understand sin..Like they always say u cant catch clean fish..u actually gotta clean the fish after catching it...I believe if we want abortion to stop in this world..it can only stop when we start loving the sinner..who are we to call them murders? If so then we better nvr sin...Cause then were putting our selves on a pedistool and thats what the pharasees did...YOU should call yourself a liar a theft or what ever lil sin u committed if you going to shout out to the world anothers person sin.. Jesus didnt come to condem ne came to bring LIFE...
 
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quakerzen

Guest
#9
Criminalizing abortion would effectively make America a theocracy, which is very much against our Constitution. And making abortion illegal in ALL cases is a blatant slap in the face to human rights, especially when a woman is raped or if she will die giving birth.
 
Oct 31, 2011
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#10
I agree that abortion is killing, yet please read this experience that someone close to me went through.

They wanted a child so much, they went to doctor after doctor. Finally she was pregnant. They found that the baby would be born with very little mind and would be very deformed. They finally decided on abortion, for having a child live through this seemed cruel to them. They went to an abortion clinic. People were at the door of the clinic with many signs and yells at them “you are killing your baby”. They saw these through their tears. Their grief over the baby was terrible, but added to this were these people’s taunts.
 

JimJimmers

Senior Member
Apr 26, 2012
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#11
Criminalizing abortion would effectively make America a theocracy, which is very much against our Constitution.
Not necessarily, The Bible says not to murder people, and that's illegal, and that doesn't make us a Theocracy.
 
R

_Ragdoll_

Guest
#12
First, I will state that I don't agree with abortion....

But I will also state that it is not our place to judge or punish those who have them, they will answer for their sins on the day they stand before our Creator, as will I, as will you. What we need is more love, compassion and prayers for those who choose to have them so we may have a chance of fellowship and counseling with them that they may change their mind or repent, give them support for other options.
 
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quakerzen

Guest
#13
Abortions would be a moot issue (in MOST cases, obviously not including rape/health issues and a few other situations) if ALL Christians would open their minds to birth control not being from the Devil. I know many of you don't believe in birth control/condoms but would you rather have someone having safe sex, or someone having an abortion?
 

Nautilus

Senior Member
Jun 29, 2012
6,488
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#14
Abortions would be a moot issue (in MOST cases, obviously not including rape/health issues and a few other situations) if ALL Christians would open their minds to birth control not being from the Devil. I know many of you don't believe in birth control/condoms but would you rather have someone having safe sex, or someone having an abortion?
uh clearly neither. sex was made only for procreation and within marriage...duh...lol
 
A

Aqua_Girl09

Guest
#15
So. I feel like abortion is bad and it shouldn't be done but i don't think the governemnt should have a say simply because if they dediced things like that then who is to say they're not keeping the "people" safe by out-lawing animal sacrifice (which christians used to do) and spanking your children(i promise i'm moving to another country if that happens). its wrong but i have a hard time thinking the governemnt should have THAT much control.

as for condoms and birth control. kids should be aware cause they're GOING to sin. its GOING to happen. no matter how much you don't want it to. stay firm in your teaching them that its wrong outside of marriage but you don't want them changing their whole life with an early child cause they couldn't control themselves ONE night.

and i WILL be using birth control when i'm married. i don't own a farm or a factory or ANYTHING else where i need a bunch of kids running around. they're expensive and i only want one to lavish my attention on. not have them fighting for it like I had to. birth control keeps the embryo from ever being formed in the first place. and if its sex inside of marriage then who cares that you're only doing it for fun? If i ever married a guy who thought sex was only to make babies we'd NEVER sleep together. . . .>_>
 

HeraldtheNews

Well-known member
Apr 26, 2012
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#16
Criminalizing abortion would effectively make America a theocracy, which is very much against our Constitution. And making abortion illegal in ALL cases is a blatant slap in the face to human rights, especially when a woman is raped or if she will die giving birth.
Um, people have posted some in-depth views here regarding an important issue. You wrote back a couple sentences with mindless liberal bs. Do you think maybe you could actually read the posts and come up with an intelligent answer that defends your opinion other than more liberal drivel? I would really appreciate it.

All I was saying is that steps should be taken to value life as being sacred, not disposable for convenience. i realize that my first post did seem extreme, but it was to make a point to counter the lukewarm watered down trends. The first miracle Jesus of Nazareth performed, was to turn water into wine at a public wedding. This wasn't an accident. He did it for a reason. I wasn't advocating becoming a theocracy, or conservative extremism, or harassing people at clinics, or coercing women through the law. Just moving in a direction that values life.

So, if you have an intelligent opinion to offer, maybe you could put together a team of clueless liberals, maybe a few thousand, and come up with an intelligent response.
 
Q

quakerzen

Guest
#17
Um, people have posted some in-depth views here regarding an important issue. You wrote back a couple sentences with mindless liberal bs. Do you think maybe you could actually read the posts and come up with an intelligent answer that defends your opinion other than more liberal drivel? I would really appreciate it.

All I was saying is that steps should be taken to value life as being sacred, not disposable for convenience. i realize that my first post did seem extreme, but it was to make a point to counter the lukewarm watered down trends. The first miracle Jesus of Nazareth performed, was to turn water into wine at a public wedding. This wasn't an accident. He did it for a reason. I wasn't advocating becoming a theocracy, or conservative extremism, or harassing people at clinics, or coercing women through the law. Just moving in a direction that values life.

So, if you have an intelligent opinion to offer, maybe you could put together a team of clueless liberals, maybe a few thousand, and come up with an intelligent response.
Wow. When backed into a corner, conservatives just bash people and claim I need facts to back up something that is ALL about opinions...
 

HeraldtheNews

Well-known member
Apr 26, 2012
1,550
435
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#18
Wow. When backed into a corner, conservatives just bash people and claim I need facts to back up something that is ALL about opinions...
look, I'm sorry for the sarcasm. It's wrong to hate your enemy. It's not personal, just the liberal agenda's and what THEY want to impose on society. It's frustration from growing up in a conservative American state (50 years), and being surrounded now by liberal West Coast U.S. extremism. It just gets old-- rainbow flags on the churches; the government FORCING church agencies to place children in alternate lifestyle homes. People promoting late-term on-demand abortions. People on every street corner with a marriage petition. I don't think people should be persecuted for their lifestyles, but, at the same time, America is turning into Sodom and Gommorah. And, it's not a theocracy to say that there must be a way to value life, without government coercion of women. These issues are not just opinions. But, you're right, bashing people is wrong. I am sorry. You took the vengeance of 2 years of cultural shock-- I grew up in isolated Alaska.
 

HeraldtheNews

Well-known member
Apr 26, 2012
1,550
435
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#19
So. I feel like abortion is bad and it shouldn't be done but i don't think the governemnt should have a say simply because if they dediced things like that then who is to say they're not keeping the "people" safe by out-lawing animal sacrifice (which christians used to do) and spanking your children(i promise i'm moving to another country if that happens). its wrong but i have a hard time thinking the governemnt should have THAT much control.

as for condoms and birth control. kids should be aware cause they're GOING to sin. its GOING to happen. no matter how much you don't want it to. stay firm in your teaching them that its wrong outside of marriage but you don't want them changing their whole life with an early child cause they couldn't control themselves ONE night.

and i WILL be using birth control when i'm married. i don't own a farm or a factory or ANYTHING else where i need a bunch of kids running around. they're expensive and i only want one to lavish my attention on. not have them fighting for it like I had to. birth control keeps the embryo from ever being formed in the first place. and if its sex inside of marriage then who cares that you're only doing it for fun? If i ever married a guy who thought sex was only to make babies we'd NEVER sleep together. . . .>_>
Oh, come on-- one kids not enough; they will get lonely, and maybe spoiled?
I've always wanted to start a ranch in the country for foster kids and adopted kids.
Sorry to hear, though, that you didn't receive enough family support--
 

HeraldtheNews

Well-known member
Apr 26, 2012
1,550
435
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#20
I agree childlbirh is a miracle and gift from God
Everyone has been born for a purpose
Amen-- that says it all...
I read once that among the many lives that do not come to be, are people with the abilities to solve issues like over-population, and food and water shortages, and many world problems.