Remaining faithful beyond separation

[house13um]

Hey all,

I just recently introduced myself to the forums over here, and one of the reasons I'm here is to hear from other Christians about their thoughts on marital vows and faithfulness relative to separation and divorce. This of course falls under the umbrella of separation / divorced engaged for any reason, whether it is due to a spouse who was unfaithful, unsupportive, abusive, etc. The entire gambit.

What are fellow Christian's takes on the general idea of remaining faithful to traditional marital vows beyond separation? I know that by asking this broad question, I may (and hope) to receive responses from various different backgrounds, experiences, denominations, what-have-you. I'm not looking for anything specific -- most of all, I'm looking for honest responses at whatever level of detail or generality.

My biggest issue hasn't necessarily been remaining faithful to my vows (although I did have an affair of my own post-separation for a few months). My problem has been facing my own issues and emotions. Being in the MFT field, I know a bunch of this, that, and the other thing about how to cope and push forward in life through separation and divorce. But having that objective information doesn’t always help — while it’s there to use, I oftentimes still respond to my emotions (e.g. the affair), even when I know that the means and method are unhealthy at even a logistical level. And that oftentimes can entail a LOT of guilt, which the counseling practice is never supposed to promote. It’s a very conflicting process, and I’m quite alone in my own personal life dealing with it since most of my friends are either single or in healthy marriages some several years old.

 

[blue_ladybug]

Separation does NOT =divorced..You're still married, but living separately, therefore should maintain the vows you took until you are fully divorced. Some separated people stay faithful, others do not. They figure, hey, I'm separated, now I can do what I want and wife/husband will never know. My advice is to stay faithful.

 

[soccermom19]

Marriage vows are not to be taken lightly. Marriage vows are till death.
Separation is a legal matter. It separates legal and financial matters. It does not give either party the right to be unfaithful. Sex should only be between man and wife. If you are not married to someone, you should not be having sexual relations with them. There are allowances made for divorce in the Bible, for things such as infidelity. However, just separating from your spouse does not give you the right to break your vows.
My advice, stay married unless you have biblical grounds for divorce. Do not have extra marital or premarital sex. These are breaking the vows you made before God.
I hope this answers your questions.

 

[mystikmind]

My wife is divorcing me and refuses to consider anything to try to work it out.

Marriages fail, but at least people usually do things to try to save it, if one will not participate in that - my wife, and highly likely because she has found someone else, i tend to view that as a signal that it is time for me to move on. Under these circumstances, I do not feel any loyalty to her or our marriage. Having said that, i would not feel comfortable jumping into bed with someone just yet

 

[soccermom19]

If you are going to sleep with someone else, then you need to get divorced first.
I have been the only one working on my marriage for quite a while and I'm not the one who has been sleeping around. Even though we are separated, I am still responsible to keep our vows until we divorce or one of us dies. Even though he hasn't honored our vows.

 

[house13um]

My wife is divorcing me and refuses to consider anything to try to work it out.

Marriages fail, but at least people usually do things to try to save it, if one will not participate in that - my wife, and highly likely because she has found someone else, i tend to view that as a signal that it is time for me to move on. Under these circumstances, I do not feel any loyalty to her or our marriage. Having said that, i would not feel comfortable jumping into bed with someone just yet

I can understand this. One thing I haven't mentioned here yet is that my wife also found someone else. For a couple weeks before she left, she was talking about a guy who had been very nice to her at work and had even given her cold medicine when she started feeling ill at work. A couple weeks after she left, she was dating him. Only five months after that, she was engaged to him. And we are only separated, not divorced.

That being said, nothing is ever as cut and dry as it is described on the surface. I go into heavy detail about stuff like this in the blog, but to put it really short here, extenuating factors such as how she was raised, the fact that she never had good relations with her family, she had been abused at one point, and then she fell in love with a guy -- me -- who loved her very much, but who eventually ended up being able to hurt her just as well. That was the most bitter experience for her, to have experienced love and devotion, but to be hurt by the same hands that had showed her love as well. I empathise well with her decision to involve herself with another person (there are still many variables not as of yet listed, these are but a few examples). What I do know for fact, on an objective level, is that this is not characteristic of her true nature and heart. It is, however, characteristic of her tendency to flee under extreme duress, as she had before with her family and previous living situations. I was the first person she encountered who loved her compassionately, and by that token (and after a year and a half as friends before we started dating), I was the first person she committed herself to. That commitment never wavered, even as things got really, really bad on my end. But it did waver when someone who showed her love very similar to the kind I had showed her long ago came into the picture.

There's still a LOT unsaid here, but this is a little background to my wife's end of the separation. My commitment to remain faithful to my vows isn't because I expect her to come back so much as the fact that I made the vows in the first place, although there is a lot left that could happen in time. That's one of the things I want to see here, is how others feel going through a separation. Thanks for your input, hoping to hear from others as well!

 

[house13um]

If you are going to sleep with someone else, then you need to get divorced first.
I have been the only one working on my marriage for quite a while and I'm not the one who has been sleeping around. Even though we are separated, I am still responsible to keep our vows until we divorce or one of us dies. Even though he hasn't honored our vows.

I can relate -- obviously, see above reply. But of course, I still responded to my emotions at one point, and ended up having an affair, much as my wife is having one now. I believe wholeheartedly in the sacred nature of marriage and the vows upon which it is founded, and that belief is founded on my faith in scripture. With that said, there is a lot of debate these days (well, at least in my area here in the deep south) about what are grounds for divorce, and what Christ actually has to say about the matter. I know New Testament scripture well enough that I have my own viewpoint on this matter, but I'd love to hear others' input on this point as well.

 

[mystikmind]

I can understand this. One thing I haven't mentioned here yet is that my wife also found someone else. For a couple weeks before she left, she was talking about a guy who had been very nice to her at work and had even given her cold medicine when she started feeling ill at work. A couple weeks after she left, she was dating him. Only five months after that, she was engaged to him. And we are only separated, not divorced.

That being said, nothing is ever as cut and dry as it is described on the surface. I go into heavy detail about stuff like this in the blog, but to put it really short here, extenuating factors such as how she was raised, the fact that she never had good relations with her family, she had been abused at one point, and then she fell in love with a guy -- me -- who loved her very much, but who eventually ended up being able to hurt her just as well. That was the most bitter experience for her, to have experienced love and devotion, but to be hurt by the same hands that had showed her love as well. I empathise well with her decision to involve herself with another person (there are still many variables not as of yet listed, these are but a few examples). What I do know for fact, on an objective level, is that this is not characteristic of her true nature and heart. It is, however, characteristic of her tendency to flee under extreme duress, as she had before with her family and previous living situations. I was the first person she encountered who loved her compassionately, and by that token (and after a year and a half as friends before we started dating), I was the first person she committed herself to. That commitment never wavered, even as things got really, really bad on my end. But it did waver when someone who showed her love very similar to the kind I had showed her long ago came into the picture.

There's still a LOT unsaid here, but this is a little background to my wife's end of the separation. My commitment to remain faithful to my vows isn't because I expect her to come back so much as the fact that I made the vows in the first place, although there is a lot left that could happen in time. That's one of the things I want to see here, is how others feel going through a separation. Thanks for your input, hoping to hear from others as well!

What can i say about these men that swoop in and charm other men's wives in their time of need? Sigh....

Men, please, if you come across a married woman in need and you want to help her but there is a risk of temptation, give her a book on relationships and walk away!

 

[house13um]

What can i say about these men that swoop in and charm other men's wives in their time of need? Sigh....

Men, please, if you come across a married woman in need and you want to help her but there is a risk of temptation, give her a book on relationships and walk away!

That's of course if the man is really interested in the welfare of the woman. I will admit, in my wife's case, I think he was, as she told me he encouraged her to come back to me even after they started dating. But I know from my teenage years that that can be a tactic used to lure in and keep a girl just as well. If I of all people was good at doing it, then anyone in this world can be.

It's no less difficult having an estranged spouse who is a fragile believer at heart. Living in the deep south, we are surrounded by some of the most vile kind of hypocrisy and misuse of scripture, so when we came together, we came together as fledgling Christians trying to determine the truth for ourselves (which our university helped us to do). When she separated, and I tried to demonstrate my repentance (that meant everything from sharing my accomplishments to just remaining silent when she didn't want communication), I was met with the kind of retaliation that those who are hurt by untrue Christians in the area deliver: she accused me of trying to use religion as a means of wooing her back. The farthest thing from the truth, and yet I can see how she would believe that. A lose-lose situation at the most human level, for sure...

 

[presidente]

Separation is not excuse to commit adultery. Even if you get a legal divorce and sleep with someone else or remarry it can be adultery. Jesus taught that he that puts away his wife, except it be for fornication, and marries another commits adultery, and he that marries her that is put away commits adultery. This was in the context of a discussion of 'legal' putting away according to the law of Moses, with a certificate.

Even legal divorce doesn't make it right to remarry in many cases. The state could give you a divorce and let you remarry while God counts it as adultery.

 

[presidente]

I was met with the kind of retaliation that those who are hurt by untrue Christians in the area deliver: she accused me of trying to use religion as a means of wooing her back. The farthest thing from the truth, and yet I can see how she would believe that. A lose-lose situation at the most human level, for sure...

Did she mean you started going to church and being more religious to woo her back?

If she meant all of a sudden you are talking about what the Bible teaches about marriage and using that to tell her you shouldn't divorce, then that's a different story. If it were me, I'd answer her saying we needed to obey Jesus, so that is part of my reason for wooing her back. But then reassure her of my love. In your case, you messed up when you were separated, and that can't be easy for her.

 

[house13um]

Did she mean you started going to church and being more religious to woo her back?

If she meant all of a sudden you are talking about what the Bible teaches about marriage and using that to tell her you shouldn't divorce, then that's a different story. If it were me, I'd answer her saying we needed to obey Jesus, so that is part of my reason for wooing her back. But then reassure her of my love. In your case, you messed up when you were separated, and that can't be easy for her.

That's something I've always wondered, honestly. My wife had cheated on me long before we ever got engaged, just a few months into our dating relationship. It was something that was inherent in her nature -- she had never been in a committed relationship before and didn't know what it was to either receive or give love as a choice. So a few months in, when we had our very first fight, she slept with someone she knew from years prior. But a few months down the line, and we were still fine. We had learned how to argue instead of fight, and finally, she told me what she had done. She was so afraid that I would hate her or be hurt. Honestly, I knew who I was getting myself involved with, and that she might be capable of doing it. I wasn't the least bit hurt. I felt bad for her (and for the guy) that she ever felt scared. That was but one strengthening moment in our relationship that later led to happy, healthy years.

But of course we continued to make our own mistakes. That's normal. What brought her to the breaking point was my refusal to be financially supportive and carry my own weight, as well as failing to give her the kind of love which she was most receptive (the kind of 5 Love Languages deal by Gary Chapman -- for years I had loved her the way she responded to healthily, but then I got lazy and started just giving / doing things for her that would make me happy, and not her). A few months into our marriage, this remained the case. Communication was clear, but action was absent. I refused to make the changes necessary. She was under extreme duress, working 60+ hours a week while I stayed at home playing video games. She began working a third job, met a guy, he comforted her, and a few weeks later, she left and started dating him.

My affair didn't take place until a few months after she left. I did in fact try to use it to spite her, but that fell flat on its face. The thing is, knowing my wife's heart, that sort of thing isn't a breaking point. First off, most likely in her eyes, that's not even applicable since she's moved on and is dating someone else. But that's probably not the end of the line. I wouldn't be surprised if it still hurt her at a very deep level -- just a continuation of hurt and neglect on my part from before she left. But in the end, I pulled out of that relationship and confessed how I felt, and where I believed I had done wrong. Both before and after that relationship, I reinforced scriptural marriage as we know and understand it (sharing the same couple verses we had read once not long after we married, so I knew she was familiar with them), and reinforced my love. She doesn't like how wordy I can be (... yeah, you can see for yourselves here how detailed I can get), so I always kept it simple and clean. No mention of church, no mention of "religion". Unfortunately, messages would get read receipts, but never be replied to. The only times she has communicated, messages that come once every several months only, is in an attempt to get me to pay for the divorce, or to spout off how much she hates me -- which isn't a bad thing, it at least comforts me that she still has emotions, and isn't the dry, civil being she's seemed to be most of the time since she left.

So, there's a lot to the matter, and mistakes galore on both our ends. Even though I'm supporting the idea of reconciliation, I haven't put up an impenetrable barrier. I will sign papers if she presents them, but that doesn't necessarily mean I will abandon my vows again. Being in the MFT field, I know on a professional level how delicate a balance things must be kept in order to promote love, reconciliation, and repentance, without growing the seed of hatred that I planted so long ago unnecessarily. No matter how much I hurt on a daily basis, I remember the hurt that I saw in her eyes right before she left, and I empathize as best as I can with where she is today.

 

[mystikmind]

That's something I've always wondered, honestly. My wife had cheated on me long before we ever got engaged, just a few months into our dating relationship. It was something that was inherent in her nature -- she had never been in a committed relationship before and didn't know what it was to either receive or give love as a choice. So a few months in, when we had our very first fight, she slept with someone she knew from years prior. But a few months down the line, and we were still fine. We had learned how to argue instead of fight, and finally, she told me what she had done. She was so afraid that I would hate her or be hurt. Honestly, I knew who I was getting myself involved with, and that she might be capable of doing it. I wasn't the least bit hurt. I felt bad for her (and for the guy) that she ever felt scared. That was but one strengthening moment in our relationship that later led to happy, healthy years.

But of course we continued to make our own mistakes. That's normal. What brought her to the breaking point was my refusal to be financially supportive and carry my own weight, as well as failing to give her the kind of love which she was most receptive (the kind of 5 Love Languages deal by Gary Chapman -- for years I had loved her the way she responded to healthily, but then I got lazy and started just giving / doing things for her that would make me happy, and not her). A few months into our marriage, this remained the case. Communication was clear, but action was absent. I refused to make the changes necessary. She was under extreme duress, working 60+ hours a week while I stayed at home playing video games. She began working a third job, met a guy, he comforted her, and a few weeks later, she left and started dating him.

My affair didn't take place until a few months after she left. I did in fact try to use it to spite her, but that fell flat on its face. The thing is, knowing my wife's heart, that sort of thing isn't a breaking point. First off, most likely in her eyes, that's not even applicable since she's moved on and is dating someone else. But that's probably not the end of the line. I wouldn't be surprised if it still hurt her at a very deep level -- just a continuation of hurt and neglect on my part from before she left. But in the end, I pulled out of that relationship and confessed how I felt, and where I believed I had done wrong. Both before and after that relationship, I reinforced scriptural marriage as we know and understand it (sharing the same couple verses we had read once not long after we married, so I knew she was familiar with them), and reinforced my love. She doesn't like how wordy I can be (... yeah, you can see for yourselves here how detailed I can get), so I always kept it simple and clean. No mention of church, no mention of "religion". Unfortunately, messages would get read receipts, but never be replied to. The only times she has communicated, messages that come once every several months only, is in an attempt to get me to pay for the divorce, or to spout off how much she hates me -- which isn't a bad thing, it at least comforts me that she still has emotions, and isn't the dry, civil being she's seemed to be most of the time since she left.

So, there's a lot to the matter, and mistakes galore on both our ends. Even though I'm supporting the idea of reconciliation, I haven't put up an impenetrable barrier. I will sign papers if she presents them, but that doesn't necessarily mean I will abandon my vows again. Being in the MFT field, I know on a professional level how delicate a balance things must be kept in order to promote love, reconciliation, and repentance, without growing the seed of hatred that I planted so long ago unnecessarily. No matter how much I hurt on a daily basis, I remember the hurt that I saw in her eyes right before she left, and I empathize as best as I can with where she is today.

That reminds me of an emotional encounter i had when i went on the train onto the city recently. While i was on the train, i saw a lonely looking girl sitting in one of the seats ahead. And because my wife takes this train to the city for work, it made me imagine my wife sitting in this train and my wife is that lonely woman and all the passengers pass by never knowing the loneliness inside. I nearly cried then and there on the train! Yes, there is a part of me that does not blame my wife for finding someone else.

 

[JC3]

The question was "What are fellow Christian's takes on the general idea of remaining faithful to traditional marital vows beyond separation?" and discussion went immediately to sex, with the clear conclusion "vows are vows even during separation".
What if the hypothetical were a date with no sex. Say, for the sake of argument, just a hug or a hug & goodnight kiss.
That would clearly be out of bounds when together in a traditional marriage. What if separated? What if separated & divorce is in process but not final?
[I don't have a particular view; it's just my habit to probe and challenge in a (hopefully constructive) way.]

 

[mystikmind]

The question was "What are fellow Christian's takes on the general idea of remaining faithful to traditional marital vows beyond separation?" and discussion went immediately to sex, with the clear conclusion "vows are vows even during separation".
What if the hypothetical were a date with no sex. Say, for the sake of argument, just a hug or a hug & goodnight kiss.
That would clearly be out of bounds when together in a traditional marriage. What if separated? What if separated & divorce is in process but not final?
[I don't have a particular view; it's just my habit to probe and challenge in a (hopefully constructive) way.]

I would say it is a two edged sword.

On one side it can help a person to move on with their life, on the other, it will be a distraction that will not aid your chances of saving the marriage. But i would add, i have seen situations where such things and even infidelity have eventually resulted in a person learning important lessons that they needed to learn, but that is just the majesty of God being able to bring good from bad and is in no way a justification for the bad!

 

[house13um]

I would say it is a two edged sword.

On one side it can help a person to move on with their life, on the other, it will be a distraction that will not aid your chances of saving the marriage. But i would add, i have seen situations where such things and even infidelity have eventually resulted in a person learning important lessons that they needed to learn, but that is just the majesty of God being able to bring good from bad and is in no way a justification for the bad!

Agreed, wholeheartedly. I would never promote such an act -- for one, because of my own experience, and for another, because my MFT training would figuratively pummel me into the ground until I reached China for ever promoting such a thing. But, I cannot deny that my wife's separation ignited within me the fire which she first saw when we first started dating, and one of the reasons which she wanted to marry me. I don't know what I would have done with my life if she had not separated, BUT, nevertheless, the act in and of itself was wrong within the context of Biblical marriage. In my eyes, as you said, that is the grace of God working through the muck -- but only because I chose to let Him work through me. I could have just as soon taken the path too commonly chosen, and just turned my back on my wife for good. God working through me required my cooperation, just as it would if my wife were to choose reconciliation versus divorce.

 

[soccermom19]

The question was "What are fellow Christian's takes on the general idea of remaining faithful to traditional marital vows beyond separation?" and discussion went immediately to sex, with the clear conclusion "vows are vows even during separation".
What if the hypothetical were a date with no sex. Say, for the sake of argument, just a hug or a hug & goodnight kiss.
That would clearly be out of bounds when together in a traditional marriage. What if separated? What if separated & divorce is in process but not final?
[I don't have a particular view; it's just my habit to probe and challenge in a (hopefully constructive) way.]

You should not date others while separated. Spend your time with God, friends, and family. It is okay to have friends that you hang out with and give a hug to. However, it should never even hint at being romantic.

 

[NewWine]

For me personally, and this is only how I feel about my life, and anyone else is free to choose their own path here.....marriage is a LOT of work. There is pain, there is anger, there is hurt feelings, but mostly there should be love. Love is an action. It's something we do, and to do anything takes work. If anything were to happen to cause my husband and I to separate and divorce, I'd be a single person.....period. I wouldn't date; I wouldn't be attracted, nor would I want to be. But that's just me.....

 

[house13um]

For me personally, and this is only how I feel about my life, and anyone else is free to choose their own path here.....marriage is a LOT of work. There is pain, there is anger, there is hurt feelings, but mostly there should be love. Love is an action. It's something we do, and to do anything takes work. If anything were to happen to cause my husband and I to separate and divorce, I'd be a single person.....period. I wouldn't date; I wouldn't be attracted, nor would I want to be. But that's just me.....

Love is definitely something we "do." The problem a lot of people face today when committing to a long-term relationship such as marriage is believing that love is only a state-of-being rather than a choice. Chapman put it well in Hope for the Separated when he stated:

"Our society has defined love as something that happens to you, not something over which you have control. For example, many will say very sincerely, “I just don’t love him / her anymore. I wish I could, but too much has happened.” The thesis of that statement is that love is an emotion, a warm, bubbly, excited positive feeling one has for a member of the opposite sex. You either have it or you don’t. If you don’t, there is nothing you can do about it. You must simply move away and hope that you may find it with someone else someday, somewhere. (Chapman 57)"

I wrote a lot about the topic here, but suffice it to say that "love is an action" also means different things for different people, and we have to know how to speak the "love language" that each person takes (something that Chapman also talked about in The 5 Love Languages, although I personally believe in the concept more than just the five languages he talks about).

To love my wife meant to support her in the areas of life which she wanted to succeed, namely art and fitness. It took me a while to figure out her language -- initially, I did things for her that I would have wanted her to do to myself, such as helping her keep a strict workout regiment. I had to learn that she needed moral support in both her successes and failures, and as far as art went, I needed not to critically analyze her work so much as praise the overall product and highlight areas where I could see further improvement -- a big different from "critical" analysis. When I began to support her the ways she was most receptive, it made the world of difference.

 

[mystikmind]

One of the challenges i have faced with my divorce is the conflict between faith vs denial vs giving up too soon.

If you have too much faith, it begins to look more like denial, if you have too little faith it begins to look more like giving up too soon.

I don't really know exactly what the right answer is, but i feel the right answer, as it is with many things in life, it is about balance.