-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
E
Re: CBS: Syria's Christians stand by Assad
I know what it means. That is why I posted it. You've assumed I don't know the relevence, or have chosen to pronounce that merely because I didn't give you my cliff notes. Just read it.
You made a remark which seemed to indicate you had an insight on the matter, I asked for clarification; you replied by asking what I thought it all meant.
"You post information and do not see the relevance of what it truly means.": if you see something you think I'm missing, tell me what it is.
Secondarily, I am asking you if Yahshua is The Almighty Himself.
Is Yashua the Eternal God, The Creator?
Is Jesus God?
I know what it means. That is why I posted it. You've assumed I don't know the relevence, or have chosen to pronounce that merely because I didn't give you my cliff notes. Just read it.
You made a remark which seemed to indicate you had an insight on the matter, I asked for clarification; you replied by asking what I thought it all meant.
"You post information and do not see the relevance of what it truly means.": if you see something you think I'm missing, tell me what it is.
Secondarily, I am asking you if Yahshua is The Almighty Himself.
Is Yashua the Eternal God, The Creator?
Is Jesus God?
Last edited:
R
Re: CBS: Syria's Christians stand by Assad
first of all i didn't say middle eastern christians were idolators 'by virtue of their place of birth and their desire to continue worshipping and raising their families'... it doesn't matter where they were born...and if they really desired to serve God they wouldn't be serving evil instead...
in addition to slandering me with your lies you also slander NATO and israel...these events are not being instigated by NATO or by israel...in fact the impact of these developments on israel has been almost exclusively -negative-
and there are no 'NATO/israeli death squads'...the assad regime and its paramilitary militias are the ones doing almost all of the killing...
the assad regime is evil because it is willing to murder as many people as necessary to stay in power...
the neighbors being murderered while syrian christians support the murdering regime are basically any syrians who oppose assad's dictatorship...mostly consisting of syrian sunnis but also including many syrian kurds and palestinians in syria and even assad's critics in lebanon...
since you mentioned christian refugees fleeing from iraq...it is ironic that most iraqi christians were driven out because of violence instigated by al qaeda fighters operating out of syria with the support of your hero assad...
middle eastern christians need to cry out to God in repentance for their sin of supporting evil...maybe then God will forgive them and put an end to the violence... but that isn't likely to happen as long as attitudes like yours persist in the middle eastern christian community...right now they are crying out to assad and against God's command to love their neighbors...
if anyone needs to be quiet here it is liars and slanderers and defenders of evil like you...
first of all i didn't say middle eastern christians were idolators 'by virtue of their place of birth and their desire to continue worshipping and raising their families'... it doesn't matter where they were born...and if they really desired to serve God they wouldn't be serving evil instead...
in addition to slandering me with your lies you also slander NATO and israel...these events are not being instigated by NATO or by israel...in fact the impact of these developments on israel has been almost exclusively -negative-
and there are no 'NATO/israeli death squads'...the assad regime and its paramilitary militias are the ones doing almost all of the killing...
the assad regime is evil because it is willing to murder as many people as necessary to stay in power...
the neighbors being murderered while syrian christians support the murdering regime are basically any syrians who oppose assad's dictatorship...mostly consisting of syrian sunnis but also including many syrian kurds and palestinians in syria and even assad's critics in lebanon...
since you mentioned christian refugees fleeing from iraq...it is ironic that most iraqi christians were driven out because of violence instigated by al qaeda fighters operating out of syria with the support of your hero assad...
middle eastern christians need to cry out to God in repentance for their sin of supporting evil...maybe then God will forgive them and put an end to the violence... but that isn't likely to happen as long as attitudes like yours persist in the middle eastern christian community...right now they are crying out to assad and against God's command to love their neighbors...
if anyone needs to be quiet here it is liars and slanderers and defenders of evil like you...
R
Re: CBS: Syria's Christians stand by Assad
the internments during world war ii targeted japanese americans...the bombings of hiroshima and nagasaki targeted the japanese military...no christians were deliberately targeted...
but anyway you are changing the subject again...we are not talking about world war ii... we are not talking about sanctions against iraq or iran either...so i will just skip over responding to those misinformed diversion attempts...
most iranian christians...along with most iranians in general...are opposed to the regime that oppresses them...and christian influence in iran has been practically insignificant since the islamic revolution...so if iranian christians or iranians in general suffer calamity as a result of their government's actions...i would be less inclined to suspect that it was a judgment from God against iranian christians or the iranian people in general...they would fall under the category of those who have been tragic casualties of war through no fault of their own...similar to the japanese christians who suffered during world war ii that you mentioned in your attempt to change the subject...
christians in syria and iraq on the other hand put their worldliness on display for all to see when they sided with the world...in the form of genocidal dictators...instead of obeying God and loving their neighbors who were being murdered by those regimes...
if they continue to be of the world...instead of setting themselves apart to God...then they forfeit God's protection and incur his punishment instead...
the internments during world war ii targeted japanese americans...the bombings of hiroshima and nagasaki targeted the japanese military...no christians were deliberately targeted...
but anyway you are changing the subject again...we are not talking about world war ii... we are not talking about sanctions against iraq or iran either...so i will just skip over responding to those misinformed diversion attempts...
most iranian christians...along with most iranians in general...are opposed to the regime that oppresses them...and christian influence in iran has been practically insignificant since the islamic revolution...so if iranian christians or iranians in general suffer calamity as a result of their government's actions...i would be less inclined to suspect that it was a judgment from God against iranian christians or the iranian people in general...they would fall under the category of those who have been tragic casualties of war through no fault of their own...similar to the japanese christians who suffered during world war ii that you mentioned in your attempt to change the subject...
christians in syria and iraq on the other hand put their worldliness on display for all to see when they sided with the world...in the form of genocidal dictators...instead of obeying God and loving their neighbors who were being murdered by those regimes...
if they continue to be of the world...instead of setting themselves apart to God...then they forfeit God's protection and incur his punishment instead...
R
well finally we come to the bottom line...antisemitism... israel is no more antichristian than any other secular nation...yet you single them out for slander...the only possible motivation for that is antisemitism...
why are middle eastern christians so indifferent to the murder of their non christian neighbors by genocidal regimes? that is the question you should be asking yourself...instead of questioning the christianity of those who disagree with the antisemitic agenda...
like most decent people i support those who do the right thing and oppose those who do wrong...it doesn't matter if those people are israeli or professing christians or anything else...if they do what is right then i am on their side...if they do what is wrong then i will speak out against them...that is part of what God has called us to be as christians...
christianity means to belong to the kingdom of God and to be under the authority of christ...it is not the college fraternity you seem to think it is... we are not called to coddle and enable fellow christians who are in the wrong just because they are our 'brothers and sisters'...we are called to rebuke them...
why are middle eastern christians so indifferent to the murder of their non christian neighbors by genocidal regimes? that is the question you should be asking yourself...instead of questioning the christianity of those who disagree with the antisemitic agenda...
like most decent people i support those who do the right thing and oppose those who do wrong...it doesn't matter if those people are israeli or professing christians or anything else...if they do what is right then i am on their side...if they do what is wrong then i will speak out against them...that is part of what God has called us to be as christians...
christianity means to belong to the kingdom of God and to be under the authority of christ...it is not the college fraternity you seem to think it is... we are not called to coddle and enable fellow christians who are in the wrong just because they are our 'brothers and sisters'...we are called to rebuke them...
E
Re: CBS: Syria's Christians stand by Assad
And they are serving evil by siding with Assad over the Muslim Brotherhood?
Maybe they know something you don't.
How are they serving evil, RachelBibleStudent?
No, you're simply ignorant of reality.
And History.
Slandering you? LOL. You made the statements you did.
As for slandering NATO or Israel, I suppose this is to be expected from someone who says the regions Christians are forsaken and cursed by God, NATO and Israel are the shining beacons of freedom and humanitarianism. I know its tough but you have to grow up some day.
Oh! Out of nowhere, for no reason Assad sends his guys out to slaughter his own population. Kind of like Qaddafi did before NATO illegally went in and 'saved the day'?
And Assad uses Israeli and Saudi weapons to do it? What - Assad is pulling a false flag attack on himself and blaming it on the West? Waht does he have to gain from that?
Really RachelBibleStudent, this is pathetic.
Oh....maybe you....you didn't really think all that chaos and "unrest" was real grassroots uprising, did you?
OK. Fair enough. Could you link some historical documentation on that?
Perhaps a scale comparing all that killing to hold on to power with the same done by other sovereign nations.
Could you supply documentation from non-western media (cfr) sources that would show us serious discontent in syria prior to 1948? Even any time after that up to this last year.
You've noted that Syria is home for many different groups.
So, RachelBibleStudent, you believe the trouble in Syria is internal, is a result of Assad's brutality against his own unhappy people. That the coming civil war is entirely internal, and Assad is the problem: is that right?
My hero? Oh please.
In any case, " iraqi christians were driven out because of violence instigated by al qaeda fighters operating out of syria with the support of your hero assad"......Is this your presentation of the Iraq War we are fighting illegally after going to Afghanistan on the laughable pretense Osama Bin Ladin was there: but then that didn't matter for some reason, Saddam Hussien was now P.E.#1. So we BOMBED IRAQ INTO THE STONEAGE?
but this is your SPIN: 'iraqi christians were driven out because of violence instigated by al qaeda fighters operating out of syria with the support of your hero assad'
Really.
Provide any sources or documentation you have that Middle Eastern Christians are supporting evil (any more than you are). Anything at all.
Link me to the Documentary or reports you read on that matter.
I'd need to see them crying out to Assad, having forsaken God, anything at all you have on that.
Aside from your toxic American Patriotism and abysmal ignorance on this issue.
I know for certain they are loving their neighbors. And are being loved in return. Its NATO/Mossad and their hired thugs that are doing the killing. It's a set-up. The Oldest playbook in the world. It keeps happening because the western schools keep spitting out good little ideologues like you who chant the party mantra on cue.
Now Now RachelBibleStudent, we'll get to the truth of this matter.
And they are serving evil by siding with Assad over the Muslim Brotherhood?
Maybe they know something you don't.
How are they serving evil, RachelBibleStudent?
No, you're simply ignorant of reality.
And History.
Slandering you? LOL. You made the statements you did.
As for slandering NATO or Israel, I suppose this is to be expected from someone who says the regions Christians are forsaken and cursed by God, NATO and Israel are the shining beacons of freedom and humanitarianism. I know its tough but you have to grow up some day.
Oh! Out of nowhere, for no reason Assad sends his guys out to slaughter his own population. Kind of like Qaddafi did before NATO illegally went in and 'saved the day'?
And Assad uses Israeli and Saudi weapons to do it? What - Assad is pulling a false flag attack on himself and blaming it on the West? Waht does he have to gain from that?
Really RachelBibleStudent, this is pathetic.
Oh....maybe you....you didn't really think all that chaos and "unrest" was real grassroots uprising, did you?
OK. Fair enough. Could you link some historical documentation on that?
Perhaps a scale comparing all that killing to hold on to power with the same done by other sovereign nations.
Could you supply documentation from non-western media (cfr) sources that would show us serious discontent in syria prior to 1948? Even any time after that up to this last year.
You've noted that Syria is home for many different groups.
So, RachelBibleStudent, you believe the trouble in Syria is internal, is a result of Assad's brutality against his own unhappy people. That the coming civil war is entirely internal, and Assad is the problem: is that right?
My hero? Oh please.
In any case, " iraqi christians were driven out because of violence instigated by al qaeda fighters operating out of syria with the support of your hero assad"......Is this your presentation of the Iraq War we are fighting illegally after going to Afghanistan on the laughable pretense Osama Bin Ladin was there: but then that didn't matter for some reason, Saddam Hussien was now P.E.#1. So we BOMBED IRAQ INTO THE STONEAGE?
but this is your SPIN: 'iraqi christians were driven out because of violence instigated by al qaeda fighters operating out of syria with the support of your hero assad'
Really.
Provide any sources or documentation you have that Middle Eastern Christians are supporting evil (any more than you are). Anything at all.
Link me to the Documentary or reports you read on that matter.
I'd need to see them crying out to Assad, having forsaken God, anything at all you have on that.
Aside from your toxic American Patriotism and abysmal ignorance on this issue.
I know for certain they are loving their neighbors. And are being loved in return. Its NATO/Mossad and their hired thugs that are doing the killing. It's a set-up. The Oldest playbook in the world. It keeps happening because the western schools keep spitting out good little ideologues like you who chant the party mantra on cue.
Now Now RachelBibleStudent, we'll get to the truth of this matter.
E
Re: CBS: Syria's Christians stand by Assad
Yes.
And?
Were they civilians?
Were there Christians among them?
Did they deserve it, being hauled of to prison camps because of their race?
Within the first two to four months of the bombings, the acute effects killed 90,000–166,000 people in Hiroshima and 60,000–80,000 in Nagasaki, with roughly half of the deaths in each city occurring on the first day. The Hiroshima prefecture health department estimated that, of the people who died on the day of the explosion, 60% died from flash or flame burns, 30% from falling debris and 10% from other causes. During the following months, large numbers died from the effect of burns, radiation sickness, and other injuries, compounded by illness. In a US estimate of the total immediate and short term cause of death, 15–20% died from radiation sickness, 20–30% from burns, and 50–60% from other injuries, compounded by illness. In both cities, most of the dead were civilians, although Hiroshima had a sizeable garrison.
wiki
Nagasaki, the City of the Atomic Bomb – And of the Christian Martyrs
There are 188 of them, from four centuries ago, and they will be beatified in one year. In the same city in which, on a single day in 1945, two thirds of the Catholics in Japan were killed. Was this a deliberate decision?
by Sandro Magister
"We can certainly assume that the atomic bombs were not dropped at random. So the question is inevitable: why is it that for the second slaughter, out of all the possibilities, that very city of Japan was chosen where Catholicism, apart from having its most glorious history, was also the most widespread and firmly established?"
In effect, among the victims of the atomic bomb in Nagasaki, two thirds of the small but vibrant Japanese Catholic community disappeared in a single day. It was a community that was nearly wiped out twice in three centuries.
Go back and re-read it.
I'm not changing the subject at all.
You've proven to be so lacking in any understanding at all, this is just jawdropping.
And you're claiming to know what God is thinking concerning all peoples. Interesting.
Show me your facts on " most iranians in general...are opposed to the regime that oppresses them"....Please try to use regional commentary.
Shame on you. shame.
Not a clue what they are doing, yet you sit in your middle class living room with your big screen tv clicking around getting your indoctrination just the way Bernays and his friends planned it.
I could post hundreds of urls that show those Christians loving their neighbors, and even their enemies (NATO/US/Israel) and praying for all. But you are not worthy to read their words or see their faces.
You stick with you CIA mind-controlled Holloywood AlQueda boogeyman they've implanted in your psyche....It helps you sleep at might as you fail to love the Christians of The Middle East. And all the others there.
Post any examples they are of the world. Anything at all. Because they are fleeing bombing and rape and torture? Why shouldn't they? It's not being done to make them recant of Christ - yet.
Would RachelBibleStudent be sure to grab her IPad and poodle and Guccis (and Bible?) before taking flight were her town to be invaded by Foreign Mercenary death squads; snipers; tanks and fire bombs?
Or...I suppose if I read it right, she wouldn't flee. She'd drop to the ground and cry out to God, repenting for not helping her neighbor(?)
Yes.
And?
Were they civilians?
Were there Christians among them?
Did they deserve it, being hauled of to prison camps because of their race?
Within the first two to four months of the bombings, the acute effects killed 90,000–166,000 people in Hiroshima and 60,000–80,000 in Nagasaki, with roughly half of the deaths in each city occurring on the first day. The Hiroshima prefecture health department estimated that, of the people who died on the day of the explosion, 60% died from flash or flame burns, 30% from falling debris and 10% from other causes. During the following months, large numbers died from the effect of burns, radiation sickness, and other injuries, compounded by illness. In a US estimate of the total immediate and short term cause of death, 15–20% died from radiation sickness, 20–30% from burns, and 50–60% from other injuries, compounded by illness. In both cities, most of the dead were civilians, although Hiroshima had a sizeable garrison.
wiki
Nagasaki, the City of the Atomic Bomb – And of the Christian Martyrs
There are 188 of them, from four centuries ago, and they will be beatified in one year. In the same city in which, on a single day in 1945, two thirds of the Catholics in Japan were killed. Was this a deliberate decision?
by Sandro Magister
"We can certainly assume that the atomic bombs were not dropped at random. So the question is inevitable: why is it that for the second slaughter, out of all the possibilities, that very city of Japan was chosen where Catholicism, apart from having its most glorious history, was also the most widespread and firmly established?"
In effect, among the victims of the atomic bomb in Nagasaki, two thirds of the small but vibrant Japanese Catholic community disappeared in a single day. It was a community that was nearly wiped out twice in three centuries.
Go back and re-read it.
I'm not changing the subject at all.
You've proven to be so lacking in any understanding at all, this is just jawdropping.
And you're claiming to know what God is thinking concerning all peoples. Interesting.
Show me your facts on " most iranians in general...are opposed to the regime that oppresses them"....Please try to use regional commentary.
Shame on you. shame.
Not a clue what they are doing, yet you sit in your middle class living room with your big screen tv clicking around getting your indoctrination just the way Bernays and his friends planned it.
I could post hundreds of urls that show those Christians loving their neighbors, and even their enemies (NATO/US/Israel) and praying for all. But you are not worthy to read their words or see their faces.
You stick with you CIA mind-controlled Holloywood AlQueda boogeyman they've implanted in your psyche....It helps you sleep at might as you fail to love the Christians of The Middle East. And all the others there.
Post any examples they are of the world. Anything at all. Because they are fleeing bombing and rape and torture? Why shouldn't they? It's not being done to make them recant of Christ - yet.
Would RachelBibleStudent be sure to grab her IPad and poodle and Guccis (and Bible?) before taking flight were her town to be invaded by Foreign Mercenary death squads; snipers; tanks and fire bombs?
Or...I suppose if I read it right, she wouldn't flee. She'd drop to the ground and cry out to God, repenting for not helping her neighbor(?)
E
What a MESS!
a hardline AND bleeding heart ideologue; depending on the corner she's painted herself into.
antisemitism? what does that have to do with knowing who is doing what in the region.
And yes, Israel is much more antichrist than the other nations in the region.
"we are not called to coddle and enable fellow christians who are in the wrong just because they are our 'brothers and sisters'...we are called to rebuke them."
Oh don't worry your little head so much - you'll get your wish. The NATO/Israeli beast will take control of syria and the real slaughter will begin...Christians first.
happy now?
a hardline AND bleeding heart ideologue; depending on the corner she's painted herself into.
antisemitism? what does that have to do with knowing who is doing what in the region.
And yes, Israel is much more antichrist than the other nations in the region.
"we are not called to coddle and enable fellow christians who are in the wrong just because they are our 'brothers and sisters'...we are called to rebuke them."
Oh don't worry your little head so much - you'll get your wish. The NATO/Israeli beast will take control of syria and the real slaughter will begin...Christians first.
happy now?
E
They're not. It's just that their pleas go unheard here - they're blocked by western media from reaching us. As you might expect. If the lumbering giant that is the US were to catch a glimpse of what is really happening over there it might wake up and drop its swinging axe.
But that won't happen since the genocidal regimes our media keeps bleating about are set up and maintained by our boys. Until the time for the CHANGE comes. As in, bring in The Muslim Brotherhood (did you get around to finding out who THEY really are yet?)
Then the genocidal regimes collectively known as NATO/Mossad/AFRICOM et al instigate balkanization. It's easy for them. They have an ancient Plan and nothing is going to stop them.
Let's see if Middle Eastern Christians are worldly; have forsaken God; are indifferent to the murder of their nonchristian neighbors at the hands of genocidal regimes:
A Moment of Truth With Christians In Palestine
Here is a brief of the Kairos Palestine document, which was signed on Dec. 11 2009 in Bethlehem city by a group of Palestinian Christians representing a variety of churches, and whose full text was published at World Council of Churches website.
This document was published nowhere in the western media, and there is little hope that the Catholic church, which presents itself as the defenders of all Christians in the Middle East, and other churches of Christian denomination, will take up this issue. If you are the member of a Christian church of any denomination, please disseminate this information as widely as possible. (click on the pictures to see them bigger).
Introduction: we, a group of Palestinian Christians, after prayer, reflection and an exchange of opinion, cry out from within the suffering in our country, under the Israeli occupation, with a cry of hope in the absence of all hope, a cry full of prayer and faith in a God ever vigilant, in God’s divine providence for all the inhabitants of this land. Inspired by the mystery of God’s love for all, the mystery of God’s divine presence in the history of all peoples and, in a particular way, in the history of our country, we proclaim our word based on our Christian faith and our sense of Palestinian belonging – a word of faith, hope and love.
The Reality:
1.1.1 The separation wall erected on Palestinian territory, a large part of which has been confiscated for this purpose, has turned our towns and villages into prisons, separating them from one another, making them dispersed and divided cantons. Gaza, especially after the cruel war Israel launched against it during December 2008 and January 2009, continues to live in inhuman conditions, under permanent blockade and cut off from the other Palestinian territories.
1.1.2 Israeli settlements ravage our land in the name of God and in the name of force, controlling our natural resources, including water and agricultural land, thus depriving hundreds of thousands of Palestinians, and constituting an obstacle to any political solution.
1.1.3 Reality is the daily humiliation to which we are subjected at the military checkpoints, as we make our way to jobs, schools or hospitals.
1.1.4 Reality is the separation between members of the same family, making family life impossible for thousands of Palestinians, especially where one of the spouses does not have an Israeli identity card.
.1.5 Religious liberty is severely restricted; the freedom of access to the holy places is denied under the pretext of security. Jerusalem and its holy places are out of bounds for many Christians and Muslims from the West Bank and the Gaza strip. Even Jerusalemites face restrictions during the religious feasts. Some of our Arab clergy are regularly barred from entering Jerusalem.
1.1.6 Refugees are also part of our reality. Most of them are still living in camps under difficult circumstances. They have been waiting for their right of return, generation after generation. What will be their fate?
1.1.7 And the prisoners? The thousands of prisoners languishing in Israeli prisons are part of our reality. The Israelis move heaven and earth to gain the release of one prisoner, and those thousands of Palestinian prisoners, when will they have their freedom?
1.1.8 Jerusalem is the heart of our reality. It is, at the same time, symbol of peace and sign of conflict. While the separation wall divides Palestinian neighbourhoods, Jerusalem continues to be emptied of its Palestinian citizens, Christians and Muslims. Their identity cards are confiscated, which means the loss of their right to reside in Jerusalem. Their homes are demolished or expropriated. Jerusalem, city of reconciliation, has become a city of discrimination and exclusion, a source of struggle rather than peace.
1.2 Also part of this reality is the Israeli disregard of international law and international resolutions, as well as the paralysis of the Arab world and the international community in the face of this contempt. Human rights are violated and despite the various reports of local and international human rights’ organizations, the injustice continues.
1.2.1 Palestinians within the State of Israel, who have also suffered a historical injustice, although they are citizens and have the rights and obligations of citizenship, still suffer from discriminatory policies. They too are waiting to enjoy full rights and equality like all other citizens in the state.
1.3 Emigration is another element in our reality. The absence of any vision or spark of hope for peace and freedom pushes young people, both Muslim and Christian, to emigrate. Thus the land is deprived of its most important and richest resource – educated youth. The shrinking number of Christians, particularly in Palestine, is one of the dangerous consequences, both of this conflict, and of the local and international paralysis and failure to find a comprehensive solution to the problem.
1.5.1 The tragedy worsened with the internal conflict among Palestinians themselves, and with the separation of Gaza from the rest of the Palestinian territory. It is noteworthy that, even though the division is among Palestinians themselves, the international community bears an important responsibility for it since it refused to deal positively with the will of the Palestinian people expressed in the outcome of democratic and legal elections in 2006.
Again, we repeat and proclaim that our Christian word in the midst of all this, in the midst of our catastrophe, is a word of faith, hope and love.
A Moment of Truth With Christians In Palestine « Kawther Salam
"instead of questioning the christianity of those who disagree with the antisemitic agenda"
What antisemitic agenda?
TBC...
But that won't happen since the genocidal regimes our media keeps bleating about are set up and maintained by our boys. Until the time for the CHANGE comes. As in, bring in The Muslim Brotherhood (did you get around to finding out who THEY really are yet?)
Then the genocidal regimes collectively known as NATO/Mossad/AFRICOM et al instigate balkanization. It's easy for them. They have an ancient Plan and nothing is going to stop them.
Let's see if Middle Eastern Christians are worldly; have forsaken God; are indifferent to the murder of their nonchristian neighbors at the hands of genocidal regimes:
A Moment of Truth With Christians In Palestine
Here is a brief of the Kairos Palestine document, which was signed on Dec. 11 2009 in Bethlehem city by a group of Palestinian Christians representing a variety of churches, and whose full text was published at World Council of Churches website.
This document was published nowhere in the western media, and there is little hope that the Catholic church, which presents itself as the defenders of all Christians in the Middle East, and other churches of Christian denomination, will take up this issue. If you are the member of a Christian church of any denomination, please disseminate this information as widely as possible. (click on the pictures to see them bigger).
Introduction: we, a group of Palestinian Christians, after prayer, reflection and an exchange of opinion, cry out from within the suffering in our country, under the Israeli occupation, with a cry of hope in the absence of all hope, a cry full of prayer and faith in a God ever vigilant, in God’s divine providence for all the inhabitants of this land. Inspired by the mystery of God’s love for all, the mystery of God’s divine presence in the history of all peoples and, in a particular way, in the history of our country, we proclaim our word based on our Christian faith and our sense of Palestinian belonging – a word of faith, hope and love.
The Reality:
1.1.1 The separation wall erected on Palestinian territory, a large part of which has been confiscated for this purpose, has turned our towns and villages into prisons, separating them from one another, making them dispersed and divided cantons. Gaza, especially after the cruel war Israel launched against it during December 2008 and January 2009, continues to live in inhuman conditions, under permanent blockade and cut off from the other Palestinian territories.
1.1.2 Israeli settlements ravage our land in the name of God and in the name of force, controlling our natural resources, including water and agricultural land, thus depriving hundreds of thousands of Palestinians, and constituting an obstacle to any political solution.
1.1.3 Reality is the daily humiliation to which we are subjected at the military checkpoints, as we make our way to jobs, schools or hospitals.
1.1.4 Reality is the separation between members of the same family, making family life impossible for thousands of Palestinians, especially where one of the spouses does not have an Israeli identity card.
.1.5 Religious liberty is severely restricted; the freedom of access to the holy places is denied under the pretext of security. Jerusalem and its holy places are out of bounds for many Christians and Muslims from the West Bank and the Gaza strip. Even Jerusalemites face restrictions during the religious feasts. Some of our Arab clergy are regularly barred from entering Jerusalem.
1.1.6 Refugees are also part of our reality. Most of them are still living in camps under difficult circumstances. They have been waiting for their right of return, generation after generation. What will be their fate?
1.1.7 And the prisoners? The thousands of prisoners languishing in Israeli prisons are part of our reality. The Israelis move heaven and earth to gain the release of one prisoner, and those thousands of Palestinian prisoners, when will they have their freedom?
1.1.8 Jerusalem is the heart of our reality. It is, at the same time, symbol of peace and sign of conflict. While the separation wall divides Palestinian neighbourhoods, Jerusalem continues to be emptied of its Palestinian citizens, Christians and Muslims. Their identity cards are confiscated, which means the loss of their right to reside in Jerusalem. Their homes are demolished or expropriated. Jerusalem, city of reconciliation, has become a city of discrimination and exclusion, a source of struggle rather than peace.
1.2 Also part of this reality is the Israeli disregard of international law and international resolutions, as well as the paralysis of the Arab world and the international community in the face of this contempt. Human rights are violated and despite the various reports of local and international human rights’ organizations, the injustice continues.
1.2.1 Palestinians within the State of Israel, who have also suffered a historical injustice, although they are citizens and have the rights and obligations of citizenship, still suffer from discriminatory policies. They too are waiting to enjoy full rights and equality like all other citizens in the state.
1.3 Emigration is another element in our reality. The absence of any vision or spark of hope for peace and freedom pushes young people, both Muslim and Christian, to emigrate. Thus the land is deprived of its most important and richest resource – educated youth. The shrinking number of Christians, particularly in Palestine, is one of the dangerous consequences, both of this conflict, and of the local and international paralysis and failure to find a comprehensive solution to the problem.
1.5.1 The tragedy worsened with the internal conflict among Palestinians themselves, and with the separation of Gaza from the rest of the Palestinian territory. It is noteworthy that, even though the division is among Palestinians themselves, the international community bears an important responsibility for it since it refused to deal positively with the will of the Palestinian people expressed in the outcome of democratic and legal elections in 2006.
Again, we repeat and proclaim that our Christian word in the midst of all this, in the midst of our catastrophe, is a word of faith, hope and love.
A Moment of Truth With Christians In Palestine « Kawther Salam
"instead of questioning the christianity of those who disagree with the antisemitic agenda"
What antisemitic agenda?
TBC...
E
Right. Israel isn't doing any evil; is not involved in these conflicts; so including that country in the long list of nations we've been discussing in THE MIDDLE EAST means only one thing: ANTISEMITISM.
Uh...Nah.
Antisemitic agenda? Where?
Leaving Congress charmed
By HERB KEINON, HILARY LEILA KRIEGER JERUSALEM LAST UPDATED: 05/25/2011 01:05
Netanyahu’s 45-minute speech was interrupted more than two dozen times by applause, the vast majority of them standing ovations.
WASHINGTON – After a raucous, four-minute ovation upon Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu’s entrance into the chamber of the US House of Representatives, the featured speaker turned to Vice President Joe Biden.
Noting that it was his second time receiving the honor of addressing a joint session of Congress, the first being 15 years ago during his first term as prime minister, he asked Biden, “Mr. Vice President, do you remember the time that we were the new kids in town?” The question elicited a pulse of laughter from the audience, which intensified after a nodding Biden crossed himself.
That warm beginning set the tone for Netanyahu’s 45-minute speech, which was interrupted more than two dozen times by applause, the vast majority of them standing ovations.
One of them came during a rare note of discord during the congressional display. A protester who sat in the crowd started calling for an end to Israel’s “occupation” of the West Bank and unfurled a red banner soon after Netanyahu began his remarks.
The protester was a Jewish-Israeli woman from California who was arrested by Capitol police for “disrupting Congress,” according to a press release put out after the event by Move Over AIPAC.
Once she started shouting, the members of Congress started to clap and then rose to drown her out, to which Netanyahu said, “I think it’s a badge of honor, and so should you, that in our free societies you can have protests. You can’t have these protests in the farcical parliaments of Tehran or Tripoli. This is real democracy!”
Though Netanyahu’s response earned another extended round of applause, at some points the audience’s enthusiasm for his words was not universal. When the prime minister said that Israel must retain a long-term presence on the Jordan River, John Kerry, the chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee who is close to Obama, listened but neither clapped nor stood, unlike most of his colleagues. When Netanyahu said that peace can’t be imposed, Kerry clapped, though in another contrast with the majority of the chamber, did not stand.
When Netanyahu came calling for a Palestinian state, there was in turn some hesitation on the part of the Israeli delegation in attendance as to whether they should stand and applaud. In the end they did, led by Ambassador to the US Michael Oren.
Netanyahu also personalized the speech, retelling the story of how he was almost killed in the Suez Canal, as well as recalling that he lost his brother, Yonatan, in the 1976 Entebbe rescue operation.
The warmth given to Netanyahu also spilled over to his wife, Sara, often beleaguered in Israel. When she entered the hall in a bright green dress and sat with the heads of Jewish organizations, the balcony stood and applauded. Netanyahu, before beginning his speech, pointed to her and waved.
Not here either:
44 Senators Tell Obama To Do Israel’s Bidding
22jun12
by James M. Wall
War, as General Sherman once said, is hell. It is also widely perceived to be a failure of diplomacy.
Which would explain why it is, that when war-promoting lobbyists want to generate congressional enthusiasm for the next war, all short-term congressional memories must be wiped out.
Wiped out, that is, with the efficiency of that “cricket clicker” used by Agents Kay and Jay, played by Tommy Lee Jones and Will Smith (shown here), in the Men in Black film series.
In the films, one click aimed at a targeted subject erases all recent memory; the clicker also works amazingly well in US elections.
Which is one explanation of why after yet another click-call from AIPAC, 44 US senators found that they no longer remembered what happened the last time the neocons took us to war against a Middle East nation, a war that has thus far cost 4,000 American military dead at a cost of more than $800 billion.
That war further secured Israel’s role as the tail that wags the dog of the US government in all matters pertaining to the Middle East.
Thus it was that with no apparent memory of the last time this nation went to war, 44 US senators dutifully sent a letter to President Obama, telling him what the US must do after the inevitable failure of last week’s round of negotiations with Iran.
These 44 senators forgot about the terrible reviews of the 2003 Shock and Awe production. They just know Shock and Awe: The Sequel, will be a success.
Their June 15 foreign policy letter is reproduced here, complete with signatures.
The signees include 25 Democrats and 19 Republicans. These senators represent AIPAC’s honor roll of loyalists.
Democrats: Menendez NJ; Schumer NY; Cardin MD; Blumenthal; CT Lieberman I-CT; Wyden OR; Lautenberg NJ; Pryor IL; Casey PA; Gillbrand NY; Brown; Stabenow MI; Klobuchar MN; Merkele OR; Coons DE; Nelson NE; Bennet CO; Inouye HI; Mikulski MD; Tester MT; Hagan NC; Nelson FL; Warner VA; Levin MI; Beegich AK. (25)
Republicans: Blunt MO; Collins ME; Isakson GA; Ayotte NH; Risch ID; Vitter LA; Moran KS; Coryn TX; Boman AR; Sessions AL; Scott Brown MA; Crapo ID; Hoeven ND; Coats IN; Murkowski AK; Toomey PA’ Lee UT; Portman OH; Heller NV (19)
The P5+1 negotiators (representatives of the five members of the UN security council plus Germany) delivered an ultimatum to Tehran in the Moscow talks, demandng that Iran agree to three demands, all of which the P5+1 negotiators knew would be non-starters for Iran. The demands:
One, close the Fordow facility, Iran’s major nuclear development underground project..
Two, freeze enrichment above 5%, a figure far below weapons-grade enrichment. (19.5% is a more reasonable enrichment, a figure still below weapons grade.)
Three, ship all uranium enriched above 5% out of the country
Viewing the negotiations from outside the actual negotiation circle, Israel smugly holds tight to its own nuclear arsenal developed in faux secrecy with the help of western powers.
In his web site, Informed Comment, Juan Cole wrote this week that strong evidence has emerged demonstrating how Israel employed the threat that it would use nuclear weapons against Iraq if the US did not act on its own in 2003.
Cole reports on the newly serialized memoirs of Alastair Campbell, who in 2002, was then British Prime Minister Tony Blair’s communications director.
Cole writes that, according to Campbell, in conversations with President George W. Bush in late 2002, Israeli’s then Prime Minister Ariel Sharon “threatened to nuke Baghdad if Saddam Hussein hit Israel with rockets again.”
It is an astonishing threat. The Iraqi SCUDs that hit Israel during the Gulf War of 1991 were primitive and hardly the sort of threat to Israel that would trigger a nuclear response among sane people.
It is also clear that the threat was intended to force George W. Bush to act aggressively against Saddam.
Cole speculates that the current Israeli Prime Minister, Binyamin Netanyahu might very well be behind the scenes, once again pushing the US toward an attack on Iran. He adds:
I have long wondered why western leaders pay so much attention to Netanyahu, the leader of a small country of 7.5 million with a gross domestic product only a little bigger than that of Portugal. Is it because, behind closed doors, they still talk the way Sharon did?
Does Israel regularly use its nuclear warheads to blackmail the US and the West more generally?
Good question, which leads to a second question: If Israel is using its stockpile of nuclear warheads as blackmail, who is to blame? The US and the West are to blame. We enabled and supported Israel’s nuclear arms program during a period when the US and the West were engaged in a Cold War with the Soviet Union.
This short-term solution was short-sighted. It was a solution that turned Israel into a nuclear military entity that can no longer be controlled by the US and the West.
In an earlier, more innocent time, we assumed Israel could be trusted to act responsibly with the weapons we helped them develop. Israel was, we believed then, the “only democracy” in the region, right?
That was then, this is now. And now we must deal with a nuclear armed Israeli government falling increasingly under the control of the West Bank settler movement with its dangerous ethnic exceptionalism and its Masada-complex.
Uri Avnery describes the settler-dominated government under which he, a longtime Zionist loyalist turned radical leftist, must live out his final years. He is not pleased:
The whole raison d’être of the settlements is to drive the Arabs out of the country and turn the whole land of Canaan into a Jewish state. In the meantime their shock troops carry out pogroms against their Arab “neighbors” and burn their mosques.
These fundamentalists now have a huge influence on our government’s policy, and their impact is growing.
Here is just a recent example of that impact: Amy Teibel, who writes for the Associated Press from Jerusalem, reports that Russia president Vladimir Putin (shown here) will visit Israel next week, where “the steely Russian president [is] widely viewed as coddling the Iranians”.
Yacov Livne, head of the Russia desk at the Israeli Foreign Ministry, offered this threat to Putin in advance of his visit:
“The message they (the Russians) will receive is that Israel can’t tolerate a nuclear Iran. Of course we prefer a diplomatic solution, but we will use all means to protect Israel’s survival.”
President Obama must now cope with a nuclear-armed Israeli government which has the absolutist backing of 44 AIPAC-guided senators who collectively ignored the old political adage that “foreign policy stops at the water’s edge“. The senators sent an Israel-First letter to the president, which concludes with this stern demand:
If the sessions in Moscow produce no substantive agreement, we urge you to reevaluate the utility of further talks at this time and instead focus on significantly increasing the pressure on the Iranian government through sanctions and making clear that a credible military option exists. As you have rightly noted, ‘the window for diplomacy is closing. Iran’s leaders must realize that you mean precisely that.
Did these 44 elected government office-holders meet in solemn assembly in a Senate conference room and reflect prayerfully on what should follow the negotiations on what Iran must do to avoid further economic punishment and a possible military attack?
Did they seriously reflect on the overwhelming evidence that Iran is not an immediate threat to emerge as a nuclear arms power? Evidence like this:
Director of National Intelligence James Clapper confirmed in a Senate hearing – following the release of the classified National Intelligence Estimate in 2011 – that he has a “high level of confidence” that Iran “has not made a decision as of this point to restart its nuclear weapons program.
Mohamed ElBaradei – who spent more than a decade as the director of the IAEA, [the International Atomic Energy Agency]
– said that he had not “seen a shred of evidence” that Iran was pursuing the bomb.
Six former ambassadors to Iran within the last decade say that there is no evidence that Iran is building nuclear weapons, and that Iran is complying with international law.
Former AIPAC staffer turned progressive blogger, MJ Rosenberg, knows a great deal about AIPAC pressure on Congress. He concludes:
The letter is pure AIPAC/Netanyahu. One, it offers the other party nothing except (2) negotiations themselves which are viewed as a concession to the other side. The offer is designed to be rejected. Why would Iran give up something for nothing?
The letter is also an AIPAC device for scoring senators in an election year. Those who sign will be rewarded or left alone. Those who don’t will hear from AIPAC and its friends. Not a pretty possibility.
This is foreign policy making at its worst, not policy at all but pure special interest politics designed by a lobby to advance Binyamin Netanyahu’s interests and agenda. Ugly stuff. But not surprising. Just appalling.
Wait, there is more. Not to be outdone in the Iran-bashing, lust for war department, the US House of Representatives affirmed its own resolution of support for an aggressive position on Iran. The final vote was 401-11.
For those of you who only consider Republicans to be warmongers: 166 of 190 Democrats voted in support, including some of its ostensibly most progressive members, such as Barney Frank and Rush Holt.
The language used [in the resolution] bodes terribly for the United States’ already disastrous and destructive foreign policy. The House affirms not merely that Iran will not be allowed to manufacture nuclear weapons, but that it will not be permitted the capability of said manufacturing.
Seeking to create a high standard for the negotiators to follow prior to the Moscow meeting between Iran and the P5+1, negotiators the Britain’s Guardian newspaper offered this guidance:
All sides need to be courageous enough to recognize a fair exchange is a central tenet of dialogue.
Between ordinary people and governments alike, reciprocity can be expressed in many shapes; among them, in the form of mutual respect. In the context of Iran’s dialogue with the P5+1, this means considering the concerns of all sides as equal and being willing to give at least as much as one takes.
A lofty admonition, to be sure, but not one that the majorities of both houses of the US Congress nor the P5+1 negotiators, want to embrace.
How will this White House respond? Will Shock and Awe: The Sequel, open soon in the homes of American parents and tax payers near you? You already know the answer if Mitt Romney is elected president. If you don’t know, check this out.
If Barack Obama is reelected in November, what can we expect in a second term? Well, so far, even in the midst of an election campaign, Obama has resisted AIPAC’s pressure to sanction a Shock and Awe: The Sequel.
Robert Wright wrote in The Atlantic that he feels Obama is letting the country “drift” into war with Iran. I don’t agree with that view. Obama does not strike me as a leader who lets thing “drift”. War is still hell. The November election will go a long way toward determining if the American voters agree with General Sherman.
James M. Wall is currently a Contributing Editor of The Christian Century magazine, based in Chicago, Illinois. From 1972 through 1999, he was editor and publisher of the Christian Century magazine. Jim launched this new personal blog April 24, 2008
He is an ordained United Methodist clergy person.
Israel and weapons of mass destruction
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Israel is widely believed to possess weapons of mass destruction, and to be one of four nuclear-armed countries not recognized as a Nuclear Weapons State by the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT).[1] The US Congress Office of Technology Assessment has recorded Israel as a country generally reported as having undeclared chemical warfare capabilities, and an offensive biological warfare program.[2] Officially Israel neither confirms nor denies possessing nuclear weapons.
It is believed that Israel had possessed an operational nuclear weapons capability by 1967, with the mass production of nuclear warheads occurring immediately after the Six-Day War.[2] Although no official statistics exist, it has been estimated that Israel possesses from 75 to as many as 400 nuclear weapons, which are reported to include thermonuclear weapons in the megaton range.[3][4][5] Israel is also reported to possess a wide range of different systems, including neutron bombs, tactical nuclear weapons, and suitcase nukes.[6] Israel is believed to manufacture its nuclear weapons at the Negev Nuclear Research Center.
ISRAELI NUCLEAR THREATS AND BLACKMAIL
The Samson Option Still Threatens the World
During the 1960s Israel concentrated on conventional military superiority to defend lands confiscated in the 1948 and 1967 wars - and to convince Palestinians in Israel and the occupied territories that they could not break free of it. However, in 1973's Yom Kippur War Israel was almost overwhelmed by Arab forces. Prime Minister Golda Meir authorized a nuclear alert, ordering 13 atomic bombs be prepared for missiles and aircraft. Israeli Ambassador to the U.S. Simha Dinitz threatened “very serious conclusions" if there was not an immediate airlift of supplies.[9] This forced U.S. President Richard Nixon to make emergency airlifts of state of the art military supplies to Israel.[10][11]
Fearing intervention by the Soviet Union, U.S. forces went on Defense Condition (DEFCON) III alert status[12], something which could have led to full scale nuclear war in case of misinterpretation of signals or hardware or software failures. Additionally, as Seymour Hersh documents in detail in his book The Samson Option, from 1973 these weapons have been used to discourage the Soviet Union - now Russia - from intervening militarily on behalf of Arab nations.[13] Obviously an Israeli nuclear attack on Russia by the United States’ great ally Israel would result in Russia sending thousands of nuclear weapons towards the U.S. and the U.S. responding in kind.
Not surprisingly, no nation state has attempted to attack Israel since 1973. A former Israeli official justified Israel’s threats. “You Americans screwed us” in not supporting Israel in its 1956 war with Egypt. “We can still remember the smell of Auschwitz and Treblinka. Next time we’ll take all of you with us.”[14] General Moshe Dayan, a leading promoter of Israel’s nuclear program[15], has been quoted as saying “Israel must be like a mad dog, too dangerous to bother.”[16] Amos Rubin, an economic adviser to former Prime Minister Yitzhak Shamir, said "If left to its own Israel will have no choice but to fall back on a riskier defense which will endanger itself and the world at large... To enable Israel to abstain from dependence on nuclear arms calls for $2 to 3 billion per year in U.S. aid."[17]
by Carol Moore, December 2009 version
Uh...Nah.
Antisemitic agenda? Where?
Leaving Congress charmed
By HERB KEINON, HILARY LEILA KRIEGER JERUSALEM LAST UPDATED: 05/25/2011 01:05
Netanyahu’s 45-minute speech was interrupted more than two dozen times by applause, the vast majority of them standing ovations.
WASHINGTON – After a raucous, four-minute ovation upon Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu’s entrance into the chamber of the US House of Representatives, the featured speaker turned to Vice President Joe Biden.
Noting that it was his second time receiving the honor of addressing a joint session of Congress, the first being 15 years ago during his first term as prime minister, he asked Biden, “Mr. Vice President, do you remember the time that we were the new kids in town?” The question elicited a pulse of laughter from the audience, which intensified after a nodding Biden crossed himself.
That warm beginning set the tone for Netanyahu’s 45-minute speech, which was interrupted more than two dozen times by applause, the vast majority of them standing ovations.
One of them came during a rare note of discord during the congressional display. A protester who sat in the crowd started calling for an end to Israel’s “occupation” of the West Bank and unfurled a red banner soon after Netanyahu began his remarks.
The protester was a Jewish-Israeli woman from California who was arrested by Capitol police for “disrupting Congress,” according to a press release put out after the event by Move Over AIPAC.
Once she started shouting, the members of Congress started to clap and then rose to drown her out, to which Netanyahu said, “I think it’s a badge of honor, and so should you, that in our free societies you can have protests. You can’t have these protests in the farcical parliaments of Tehran or Tripoli. This is real democracy!”
Though Netanyahu’s response earned another extended round of applause, at some points the audience’s enthusiasm for his words was not universal. When the prime minister said that Israel must retain a long-term presence on the Jordan River, John Kerry, the chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee who is close to Obama, listened but neither clapped nor stood, unlike most of his colleagues. When Netanyahu said that peace can’t be imposed, Kerry clapped, though in another contrast with the majority of the chamber, did not stand.
When Netanyahu came calling for a Palestinian state, there was in turn some hesitation on the part of the Israeli delegation in attendance as to whether they should stand and applaud. In the end they did, led by Ambassador to the US Michael Oren.
Netanyahu also personalized the speech, retelling the story of how he was almost killed in the Suez Canal, as well as recalling that he lost his brother, Yonatan, in the 1976 Entebbe rescue operation.
The warmth given to Netanyahu also spilled over to his wife, Sara, often beleaguered in Israel. When she entered the hall in a bright green dress and sat with the heads of Jewish organizations, the balcony stood and applauded. Netanyahu, before beginning his speech, pointed to her and waved.
Not here either:
44 Senators Tell Obama To Do Israel’s Bidding
22jun12
by James M. Wall
War, as General Sherman once said, is hell. It is also widely perceived to be a failure of diplomacy.
Which would explain why it is, that when war-promoting lobbyists want to generate congressional enthusiasm for the next war, all short-term congressional memories must be wiped out.
Wiped out, that is, with the efficiency of that “cricket clicker” used by Agents Kay and Jay, played by Tommy Lee Jones and Will Smith (shown here), in the Men in Black film series.
In the films, one click aimed at a targeted subject erases all recent memory; the clicker also works amazingly well in US elections.
Which is one explanation of why after yet another click-call from AIPAC, 44 US senators found that they no longer remembered what happened the last time the neocons took us to war against a Middle East nation, a war that has thus far cost 4,000 American military dead at a cost of more than $800 billion.
That war further secured Israel’s role as the tail that wags the dog of the US government in all matters pertaining to the Middle East.
Thus it was that with no apparent memory of the last time this nation went to war, 44 US senators dutifully sent a letter to President Obama, telling him what the US must do after the inevitable failure of last week’s round of negotiations with Iran.
These 44 senators forgot about the terrible reviews of the 2003 Shock and Awe production. They just know Shock and Awe: The Sequel, will be a success.
Their June 15 foreign policy letter is reproduced here, complete with signatures.
The signees include 25 Democrats and 19 Republicans. These senators represent AIPAC’s honor roll of loyalists.
Democrats: Menendez NJ; Schumer NY; Cardin MD; Blumenthal; CT Lieberman I-CT; Wyden OR; Lautenberg NJ; Pryor IL; Casey PA; Gillbrand NY; Brown; Stabenow MI; Klobuchar MN; Merkele OR; Coons DE; Nelson NE; Bennet CO; Inouye HI; Mikulski MD; Tester MT; Hagan NC; Nelson FL; Warner VA; Levin MI; Beegich AK. (25)
Republicans: Blunt MO; Collins ME; Isakson GA; Ayotte NH; Risch ID; Vitter LA; Moran KS; Coryn TX; Boman AR; Sessions AL; Scott Brown MA; Crapo ID; Hoeven ND; Coats IN; Murkowski AK; Toomey PA’ Lee UT; Portman OH; Heller NV (19)
The P5+1 negotiators (representatives of the five members of the UN security council plus Germany) delivered an ultimatum to Tehran in the Moscow talks, demandng that Iran agree to three demands, all of which the P5+1 negotiators knew would be non-starters for Iran. The demands:
One, close the Fordow facility, Iran’s major nuclear development underground project..
Two, freeze enrichment above 5%, a figure far below weapons-grade enrichment. (19.5% is a more reasonable enrichment, a figure still below weapons grade.)
Three, ship all uranium enriched above 5% out of the country
Viewing the negotiations from outside the actual negotiation circle, Israel smugly holds tight to its own nuclear arsenal developed in faux secrecy with the help of western powers.
In his web site, Informed Comment, Juan Cole wrote this week that strong evidence has emerged demonstrating how Israel employed the threat that it would use nuclear weapons against Iraq if the US did not act on its own in 2003.
Cole reports on the newly serialized memoirs of Alastair Campbell, who in 2002, was then British Prime Minister Tony Blair’s communications director.
Cole writes that, according to Campbell, in conversations with President George W. Bush in late 2002, Israeli’s then Prime Minister Ariel Sharon “threatened to nuke Baghdad if Saddam Hussein hit Israel with rockets again.”
It is an astonishing threat. The Iraqi SCUDs that hit Israel during the Gulf War of 1991 were primitive and hardly the sort of threat to Israel that would trigger a nuclear response among sane people.
It is also clear that the threat was intended to force George W. Bush to act aggressively against Saddam.
Cole speculates that the current Israeli Prime Minister, Binyamin Netanyahu might very well be behind the scenes, once again pushing the US toward an attack on Iran. He adds:
I have long wondered why western leaders pay so much attention to Netanyahu, the leader of a small country of 7.5 million with a gross domestic product only a little bigger than that of Portugal. Is it because, behind closed doors, they still talk the way Sharon did?
Does Israel regularly use its nuclear warheads to blackmail the US and the West more generally?
Good question, which leads to a second question: If Israel is using its stockpile of nuclear warheads as blackmail, who is to blame? The US and the West are to blame. We enabled and supported Israel’s nuclear arms program during a period when the US and the West were engaged in a Cold War with the Soviet Union.
This short-term solution was short-sighted. It was a solution that turned Israel into a nuclear military entity that can no longer be controlled by the US and the West.
In an earlier, more innocent time, we assumed Israel could be trusted to act responsibly with the weapons we helped them develop. Israel was, we believed then, the “only democracy” in the region, right?
That was then, this is now. And now we must deal with a nuclear armed Israeli government falling increasingly under the control of the West Bank settler movement with its dangerous ethnic exceptionalism and its Masada-complex.
Uri Avnery describes the settler-dominated government under which he, a longtime Zionist loyalist turned radical leftist, must live out his final years. He is not pleased:
The whole raison d’être of the settlements is to drive the Arabs out of the country and turn the whole land of Canaan into a Jewish state. In the meantime their shock troops carry out pogroms against their Arab “neighbors” and burn their mosques.
These fundamentalists now have a huge influence on our government’s policy, and their impact is growing.
Here is just a recent example of that impact: Amy Teibel, who writes for the Associated Press from Jerusalem, reports that Russia president Vladimir Putin (shown here) will visit Israel next week, where “the steely Russian president [is] widely viewed as coddling the Iranians”.
Yacov Livne, head of the Russia desk at the Israeli Foreign Ministry, offered this threat to Putin in advance of his visit:
“The message they (the Russians) will receive is that Israel can’t tolerate a nuclear Iran. Of course we prefer a diplomatic solution, but we will use all means to protect Israel’s survival.”
President Obama must now cope with a nuclear-armed Israeli government which has the absolutist backing of 44 AIPAC-guided senators who collectively ignored the old political adage that “foreign policy stops at the water’s edge“. The senators sent an Israel-First letter to the president, which concludes with this stern demand:
If the sessions in Moscow produce no substantive agreement, we urge you to reevaluate the utility of further talks at this time and instead focus on significantly increasing the pressure on the Iranian government through sanctions and making clear that a credible military option exists. As you have rightly noted, ‘the window for diplomacy is closing. Iran’s leaders must realize that you mean precisely that.
Did these 44 elected government office-holders meet in solemn assembly in a Senate conference room and reflect prayerfully on what should follow the negotiations on what Iran must do to avoid further economic punishment and a possible military attack?
Did they seriously reflect on the overwhelming evidence that Iran is not an immediate threat to emerge as a nuclear arms power? Evidence like this:
Director of National Intelligence James Clapper confirmed in a Senate hearing – following the release of the classified National Intelligence Estimate in 2011 – that he has a “high level of confidence” that Iran “has not made a decision as of this point to restart its nuclear weapons program.
Mohamed ElBaradei – who spent more than a decade as the director of the IAEA, [the International Atomic Energy Agency]
– said that he had not “seen a shred of evidence” that Iran was pursuing the bomb.
Six former ambassadors to Iran within the last decade say that there is no evidence that Iran is building nuclear weapons, and that Iran is complying with international law.
Former AIPAC staffer turned progressive blogger, MJ Rosenberg, knows a great deal about AIPAC pressure on Congress. He concludes:
The letter is pure AIPAC/Netanyahu. One, it offers the other party nothing except (2) negotiations themselves which are viewed as a concession to the other side. The offer is designed to be rejected. Why would Iran give up something for nothing?
The letter is also an AIPAC device for scoring senators in an election year. Those who sign will be rewarded or left alone. Those who don’t will hear from AIPAC and its friends. Not a pretty possibility.
This is foreign policy making at its worst, not policy at all but pure special interest politics designed by a lobby to advance Binyamin Netanyahu’s interests and agenda. Ugly stuff. But not surprising. Just appalling.
Wait, there is more. Not to be outdone in the Iran-bashing, lust for war department, the US House of Representatives affirmed its own resolution of support for an aggressive position on Iran. The final vote was 401-11.
For those of you who only consider Republicans to be warmongers: 166 of 190 Democrats voted in support, including some of its ostensibly most progressive members, such as Barney Frank and Rush Holt.
The language used [in the resolution] bodes terribly for the United States’ already disastrous and destructive foreign policy. The House affirms not merely that Iran will not be allowed to manufacture nuclear weapons, but that it will not be permitted the capability of said manufacturing.
Seeking to create a high standard for the negotiators to follow prior to the Moscow meeting between Iran and the P5+1, negotiators the Britain’s Guardian newspaper offered this guidance:
All sides need to be courageous enough to recognize a fair exchange is a central tenet of dialogue.
Between ordinary people and governments alike, reciprocity can be expressed in many shapes; among them, in the form of mutual respect. In the context of Iran’s dialogue with the P5+1, this means considering the concerns of all sides as equal and being willing to give at least as much as one takes.
A lofty admonition, to be sure, but not one that the majorities of both houses of the US Congress nor the P5+1 negotiators, want to embrace.
How will this White House respond? Will Shock and Awe: The Sequel, open soon in the homes of American parents and tax payers near you? You already know the answer if Mitt Romney is elected president. If you don’t know, check this out.
If Barack Obama is reelected in November, what can we expect in a second term? Well, so far, even in the midst of an election campaign, Obama has resisted AIPAC’s pressure to sanction a Shock and Awe: The Sequel.
Robert Wright wrote in The Atlantic that he feels Obama is letting the country “drift” into war with Iran. I don’t agree with that view. Obama does not strike me as a leader who lets thing “drift”. War is still hell. The November election will go a long way toward determining if the American voters agree with General Sherman.
James M. Wall is currently a Contributing Editor of The Christian Century magazine, based in Chicago, Illinois. From 1972 through 1999, he was editor and publisher of the Christian Century magazine. Jim launched this new personal blog April 24, 2008
He is an ordained United Methodist clergy person.
Israel and weapons of mass destruction
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Israel is widely believed to possess weapons of mass destruction, and to be one of four nuclear-armed countries not recognized as a Nuclear Weapons State by the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT).[1] The US Congress Office of Technology Assessment has recorded Israel as a country generally reported as having undeclared chemical warfare capabilities, and an offensive biological warfare program.[2] Officially Israel neither confirms nor denies possessing nuclear weapons.
It is believed that Israel had possessed an operational nuclear weapons capability by 1967, with the mass production of nuclear warheads occurring immediately after the Six-Day War.[2] Although no official statistics exist, it has been estimated that Israel possesses from 75 to as many as 400 nuclear weapons, which are reported to include thermonuclear weapons in the megaton range.[3][4][5] Israel is also reported to possess a wide range of different systems, including neutron bombs, tactical nuclear weapons, and suitcase nukes.[6] Israel is believed to manufacture its nuclear weapons at the Negev Nuclear Research Center.
ISRAELI NUCLEAR THREATS AND BLACKMAIL
The Samson Option Still Threatens the World
During the 1960s Israel concentrated on conventional military superiority to defend lands confiscated in the 1948 and 1967 wars - and to convince Palestinians in Israel and the occupied territories that they could not break free of it. However, in 1973's Yom Kippur War Israel was almost overwhelmed by Arab forces. Prime Minister Golda Meir authorized a nuclear alert, ordering 13 atomic bombs be prepared for missiles and aircraft. Israeli Ambassador to the U.S. Simha Dinitz threatened “very serious conclusions" if there was not an immediate airlift of supplies.[9] This forced U.S. President Richard Nixon to make emergency airlifts of state of the art military supplies to Israel.[10][11]
Fearing intervention by the Soviet Union, U.S. forces went on Defense Condition (DEFCON) III alert status[12], something which could have led to full scale nuclear war in case of misinterpretation of signals or hardware or software failures. Additionally, as Seymour Hersh documents in detail in his book The Samson Option, from 1973 these weapons have been used to discourage the Soviet Union - now Russia - from intervening militarily on behalf of Arab nations.[13] Obviously an Israeli nuclear attack on Russia by the United States’ great ally Israel would result in Russia sending thousands of nuclear weapons towards the U.S. and the U.S. responding in kind.
Not surprisingly, no nation state has attempted to attack Israel since 1973. A former Israeli official justified Israel’s threats. “You Americans screwed us” in not supporting Israel in its 1956 war with Egypt. “We can still remember the smell of Auschwitz and Treblinka. Next time we’ll take all of you with us.”[14] General Moshe Dayan, a leading promoter of Israel’s nuclear program[15], has been quoted as saying “Israel must be like a mad dog, too dangerous to bother.”[16] Amos Rubin, an economic adviser to former Prime Minister Yitzhak Shamir, said "If left to its own Israel will have no choice but to fall back on a riskier defense which will endanger itself and the world at large... To enable Israel to abstain from dependence on nuclear arms calls for $2 to 3 billion per year in U.S. aid."[17]
by Carol Moore, December 2009 version
*shaking head, sighing and yawning*
Oh, there we have that intellectual brilliance again: criticize Israel and you are antisemite! No need for any arguments or to present any durable facts let alone listen to the critique, just blow that inquisitional label on whoever and all who dare in any way speak against Israel. Bah. And of course the christians who are to be "rebuked" are those who dare not to recognice "Israel" as the fulfilment of certain prophecies and the non-christians jews as yet being "God's people". Well, some people really do make it simple for themselves. So simple that they block their heads.
Isn't it funny that no-one of these bigoted and fanatic "christian zionists" would mind anyone telling (the truth) that Islam is antichristian or that the Saudi state is antichristian? Why do I not hear any accusations of antiarabism or islamophobia in such cases? Or the fact that buddhism is antichristian and that the Bhutani state is same? Why is noone there to rant about antibuddhist or anti-bhutani "hate" in such cases? Maybe because there is no "christian" lobby who defend muslims/saudis or buddhists/bhutanis before the interests of their would be fellow christians and have a theology who say that muslims and buddhists are "also the people of God". Anyone see the absurdity?
Christians should know that all religions who do not confess Jesus Christ as Lord and the Son of God, are against Christ and christianity, ergo; they are antichristian. To suggest anything else means you have some serious theological and doctrinal problems. Christians side with christians. Christians have their number one loyalty to their fellow christians. Christians want to help other christians from the harassment of non-christians. If you call yourself a christian and yet have any other loyalty than this, if you side with those who oppose christianity, then can we not say that you betray your fellow christians? Of course we can. If your first loyalty is with the ADL and AIPAC, then we are not on the same board.
Now for the record; christians of the middle east and northern africa are not indifferent to killings of non-christians. See Lebanon as an example (and recall the israeli "intervention"?). But believe me when I say that christians in this region are often pushed from many sides and have an outright inferno to keep up with the constant attacks, harassment and discrimination they suffer. As a western person you can't even imagine how it is to live as a non-muslim (even worse if you are non-arab) in a muslim land. For that matter to live as a christian in Israel is also NOT an easy life. As for muslim arabic violence, I am well aware of it. My berber kinsmen knows very well what arabization means. And it is much more worse if you are christian to that. Where is the west and Israel to support these people? There is no such support. But non-christian jews have much support from the "christian" west.
As for me this is all very simple. And I couldn't care less with religious bigots in the US thinks about the middle east situation. I will NOT stand with beast Israel just as little as I will NOT stand with beast Saudi/Qatar/Egypt or whatever these antichristian entities call themselves. I will stand with God's people, the Israel of God, even the Church of Christ. Whether its members be of arabic, jewish, druze, bedouin, turkic etc, etc, etc origin.
Not a nice try, miss.
Oh, there we have that intellectual brilliance again: criticize Israel and you are antisemite! No need for any arguments or to present any durable facts let alone listen to the critique, just blow that inquisitional label on whoever and all who dare in any way speak against Israel. Bah. And of course the christians who are to be "rebuked" are those who dare not to recognice "Israel" as the fulfilment of certain prophecies and the non-christians jews as yet being "God's people". Well, some people really do make it simple for themselves. So simple that they block their heads.
Isn't it funny that no-one of these bigoted and fanatic "christian zionists" would mind anyone telling (the truth) that Islam is antichristian or that the Saudi state is antichristian? Why do I not hear any accusations of antiarabism or islamophobia in such cases? Or the fact that buddhism is antichristian and that the Bhutani state is same? Why is noone there to rant about antibuddhist or anti-bhutani "hate" in such cases? Maybe because there is no "christian" lobby who defend muslims/saudis or buddhists/bhutanis before the interests of their would be fellow christians and have a theology who say that muslims and buddhists are "also the people of God". Anyone see the absurdity?
Christians should know that all religions who do not confess Jesus Christ as Lord and the Son of God, are against Christ and christianity, ergo; they are antichristian. To suggest anything else means you have some serious theological and doctrinal problems. Christians side with christians. Christians have their number one loyalty to their fellow christians. Christians want to help other christians from the harassment of non-christians. If you call yourself a christian and yet have any other loyalty than this, if you side with those who oppose christianity, then can we not say that you betray your fellow christians? Of course we can. If your first loyalty is with the ADL and AIPAC, then we are not on the same board.
Now for the record; christians of the middle east and northern africa are not indifferent to killings of non-christians. See Lebanon as an example (and recall the israeli "intervention"?). But believe me when I say that christians in this region are often pushed from many sides and have an outright inferno to keep up with the constant attacks, harassment and discrimination they suffer. As a western person you can't even imagine how it is to live as a non-muslim (even worse if you are non-arab) in a muslim land. For that matter to live as a christian in Israel is also NOT an easy life. As for muslim arabic violence, I am well aware of it. My berber kinsmen knows very well what arabization means. And it is much more worse if you are christian to that. Where is the west and Israel to support these people? There is no such support. But non-christian jews have much support from the "christian" west.
As for me this is all very simple. And I couldn't care less with religious bigots in the US thinks about the middle east situation. I will NOT stand with beast Israel just as little as I will NOT stand with beast Saudi/Qatar/Egypt or whatever these antichristian entities call themselves. I will stand with God's people, the Israel of God, even the Church of Christ. Whether its members be of arabic, jewish, druze, bedouin, turkic etc, etc, etc origin.
Not a nice try, miss.
R
Re: CBS: Syria's Christians stand by Assad
regardless of what you think of the muslim brotherhood's political agenda...the fact is that they haven't been murdering tens of thousands of civilians the way assad and other middle eastern dictators have been...it should be pretty obvious which one is the greater evil...
and ironically up until last year the muslim brotherhood's palestinian branch was enthusiastically supported by the assad regime...go figure...
syrian christians are serving evil by supporting a mass murderer...that is how
you slandered me by saying i made statements that i did not make...such as accusing me of claiming that middle eastern christians were idolators because of where they were born...when i said no such thing...
NATO and israel are not perfect...but they are not running 'death squads'...nor are they responsible for these revolutions which have been almost exclusively opposed to their geopolitical interests...
assad much like gaddafi refused to tolerate any protests against his regime...he tried to suppress the protests with violence...which then led to more violence...all the way down to the situation we see today... it could have been avoided if assad had been willing to give up some of his dictatorial power...
the intervention in libya was actually legal...it was backed by a UN resolution...
assad isn't using israeli and saudi weapons...assad is using iranian and russian weapons...the anti assad rebels are now using some saudi weapons...and israel has kept itself and its weapons out of the conflict...
of course assad is going to blame israel and the west for the civil war that is developing in his country...anything to avoid taking responsibility for his own actions...
so far bashar assad has murdered about 20,000 syrians...back in 1982 his father hafez assad murdered about 30,000 syrians in one city by bombing it for a month... it is pretty clear that the assad family will murder as many people as necessary to stay in power...human life does not matter to them...
your challenge to provide examples of serious discontent in syria prior to 1948 just shows how ignorant you are about this subject...the modern state of syria didn't even exist until the 1940s anyway...and the assad family did not seize power until 1970...
in any case there has been significant instability in syria for most of the twentieth and twenty-first centuries...with the worst period being between 1976 and 1982 when up to 80,000 syrians died as a result of the violence...
the current revolt began as an internal call for democracy...but the brutality of assad's suppression of the revolt has invited outside interference...if there is a civil war in syria it will probably involve outside influences supporting either side... but whatever happens assad clearly bears most of the responsibility for the violence...and there is no way to have peace in syria with him in power...
your argument about the iraq war is yet another attempt to change the subject...we are not talking about whether the invasion of iraq was right or wrong... i mentioned iraq to show the irony of syrian christians supporting the dictator who during the iraq war was providing safe haven for those primarily responsible for the 'insurgent' violence that led to the expulsion of most christians from their homes in iraq...
you yourself have already provided plenty of documentation that middle eastern christians are supporting evil...you have posted several reports showing that syrian christians have sided with assad and are hoping his campaign of mass murder is successful...
you are a pretty good example of how evil conspiracy theorists truly are...you support a mass murderer with the blood of tens of thousands on his hands because you think he is the 'good guy' fighting against the mossad and NATO and CFR and the other bogeymen of your paranoid world view...
in reality you just want to stick it to the jews and you don't care how many people have to die in order for that to happen...
regardless of what you think of the muslim brotherhood's political agenda...the fact is that they haven't been murdering tens of thousands of civilians the way assad and other middle eastern dictators have been...it should be pretty obvious which one is the greater evil...
and ironically up until last year the muslim brotherhood's palestinian branch was enthusiastically supported by the assad regime...go figure...
syrian christians are serving evil by supporting a mass murderer...that is how
you slandered me by saying i made statements that i did not make...such as accusing me of claiming that middle eastern christians were idolators because of where they were born...when i said no such thing...
NATO and israel are not perfect...but they are not running 'death squads'...nor are they responsible for these revolutions which have been almost exclusively opposed to their geopolitical interests...
assad much like gaddafi refused to tolerate any protests against his regime...he tried to suppress the protests with violence...which then led to more violence...all the way down to the situation we see today... it could have been avoided if assad had been willing to give up some of his dictatorial power...
the intervention in libya was actually legal...it was backed by a UN resolution...
assad isn't using israeli and saudi weapons...assad is using iranian and russian weapons...the anti assad rebels are now using some saudi weapons...and israel has kept itself and its weapons out of the conflict...
of course assad is going to blame israel and the west for the civil war that is developing in his country...anything to avoid taking responsibility for his own actions...
so far bashar assad has murdered about 20,000 syrians...back in 1982 his father hafez assad murdered about 30,000 syrians in one city by bombing it for a month... it is pretty clear that the assad family will murder as many people as necessary to stay in power...human life does not matter to them...
your challenge to provide examples of serious discontent in syria prior to 1948 just shows how ignorant you are about this subject...the modern state of syria didn't even exist until the 1940s anyway...and the assad family did not seize power until 1970...
in any case there has been significant instability in syria for most of the twentieth and twenty-first centuries...with the worst period being between 1976 and 1982 when up to 80,000 syrians died as a result of the violence...
the current revolt began as an internal call for democracy...but the brutality of assad's suppression of the revolt has invited outside interference...if there is a civil war in syria it will probably involve outside influences supporting either side... but whatever happens assad clearly bears most of the responsibility for the violence...and there is no way to have peace in syria with him in power...
your argument about the iraq war is yet another attempt to change the subject...we are not talking about whether the invasion of iraq was right or wrong... i mentioned iraq to show the irony of syrian christians supporting the dictator who during the iraq war was providing safe haven for those primarily responsible for the 'insurgent' violence that led to the expulsion of most christians from their homes in iraq...
you yourself have already provided plenty of documentation that middle eastern christians are supporting evil...you have posted several reports showing that syrian christians have sided with assad and are hoping his campaign of mass murder is successful...
you are a pretty good example of how evil conspiracy theorists truly are...you support a mass murderer with the blood of tens of thousands on his hands because you think he is the 'good guy' fighting against the mossad and NATO and CFR and the other bogeymen of your paranoid world view...
in reality you just want to stick it to the jews and you don't care how many people have to die in order for that to happen...
R
Re: CBS: Syria's Christians stand by Assad
yes the japanese americans who were put into internment camps were civilians...and some of them were christians...but the internments targeted japanese americans in general...whether or not they were christian had nothing to do with it...
yet again you are trying to change the subject to something new since you are being proven so completely wrong about everything you have attempted to discuss so far... we are not talking about whether it was right or wrong to imprison americans just because they were of japanese descent...we were talking about whether or not the united states has ever deliberately targeted christians...and the answer to that question is a definite no...
hiroshima was headquarters for the japanese second general army...the fifty-ninth army...the 224th mobile division...the chugoku regional army...and the japanese army marines...it was also a center for communications and logistics and supply for japan's military... nagasaki was a major military sea port...and also the japanese military's industrial base...producing ammunition and ships and other military equipment...especially at the mitsubishi steel and arms works... those military assets were the targets of the nuclear bombing...not the japanese christians...
incidentally nagasaki was not even the primary target of the second atomic bombing mission...it was the alternate target that was bombed instead when the bomber found its primary target of kokura obscured by cloud cover...which makes any accusation that christians were deliberately targeted even more ridiculous...
here is some 'regional commentary' on how the iranians feel about their government... http://i.ytimg.com/vi/IQ3U0phMm38/0.jpg and read about the 2009 anti ahmadinejad protests...
i love everyone in the middle east...including the christians...that is why i am calling on them to repent... evidently you hate israel and NATO more than you love the middle eastern christians...
the syrian christians aren't fleeing bombing and rape and torture...they are -supporting- bombing and rape and torture...to their spiritual detriment... they may not have recanted christ yet...but they have defied his overarching command to love...
yes the japanese americans who were put into internment camps were civilians...and some of them were christians...but the internments targeted japanese americans in general...whether or not they were christian had nothing to do with it...
yet again you are trying to change the subject to something new since you are being proven so completely wrong about everything you have attempted to discuss so far... we are not talking about whether it was right or wrong to imprison americans just because they were of japanese descent...we were talking about whether or not the united states has ever deliberately targeted christians...and the answer to that question is a definite no...
hiroshima was headquarters for the japanese second general army...the fifty-ninth army...the 224th mobile division...the chugoku regional army...and the japanese army marines...it was also a center for communications and logistics and supply for japan's military... nagasaki was a major military sea port...and also the japanese military's industrial base...producing ammunition and ships and other military equipment...especially at the mitsubishi steel and arms works... those military assets were the targets of the nuclear bombing...not the japanese christians...
incidentally nagasaki was not even the primary target of the second atomic bombing mission...it was the alternate target that was bombed instead when the bomber found its primary target of kokura obscured by cloud cover...which makes any accusation that christians were deliberately targeted even more ridiculous...
here is some 'regional commentary' on how the iranians feel about their government... http://i.ytimg.com/vi/IQ3U0phMm38/0.jpg and read about the 2009 anti ahmadinejad protests...
i love everyone in the middle east...including the christians...that is why i am calling on them to repent... evidently you hate israel and NATO more than you love the middle eastern christians...
the syrian christians aren't fleeing bombing and rape and torture...they are -supporting- bombing and rape and torture...to their spiritual detriment... they may not have recanted christ yet...but they have defied his overarching command to love...
R
it is antisemitism when someone completely -ignores- the crimes committed by israel's neighbors both against israel and against each other and against their own people...and instead singles out israel for criticism time and time again...
israel is no more antichristian than any other secular state in the world...the only difference between israel and spain for example is that most of the people in israel are jews...but you want everyone to believe that has nothing to do with your hatred for israel...
yet again you are slandering me...i never said that i wished for syrian christians to be slaughtered...instead i have done just the opposite...in agreement with God's word in ezekiel 18:32...i am calling for them to repent and live...
why do you lie so much? we all know who the father of lies is...who is your father?
israel is no more antichristian than any other secular state in the world...the only difference between israel and spain for example is that most of the people in israel are jews...but you want everyone to believe that has nothing to do with your hatred for israel...
yet again you are slandering me...i never said that i wished for syrian christians to be slaughtered...instead i have done just the opposite...in agreement with God's word in ezekiel 18:32...i am calling for them to repent and live...
why do you lie so much? we all know who the father of lies is...who is your father?
R
now i am noticing that you are trying to overwhelm me with posts to respond to...we started with two and now you have increased the number to five through multiple replies to the same post... that is a common tactic of dishonest debaters...trying to bury their opponent under a mountain of busy work until they are frustrated enough to quit...
well i see right through you...
i have known about the muslim brotherhood for a long time...they are not generally a positive force...but at this point just about anyone would be better for human rights than assad... at least the muslim brotherhood has not killed anyone since the 1970s...except for its palestinian branch known as hamas which still loves violence...
you are showing still more ignorance about syria when you accuse NATO and the mossad and AFRICOM of plotting to 'balkanize' syria... your most obvious mistake is your attempt to implicate AFRICOM...when actually the united states' operations in the middle east fall under the authority of CENTCOM...
more importantly you fail to realize that the syrian region has practically never been united before the 1940s...the land has been either controlled by a larger power such as the ottoman empire...or else it has been divided into smaller kingdoms and republics... what you call 'balkanization' is closer to the syria's natural state than the dictatorship that controls that area today...
the manifesto you have posted is a perfect example of how the palestinian christians are also being worldly and indifferent to the suffering of their neighbors...in defiance of God's command to us to love our neighbors...
this manifesto is basically an anti israeli rant except for the last point...and there is no condemnation of the many crimes committed against israel by palestinians... your document shows that palestinian christians do not love their non christian -jewish- neighbors...
and ironically this manifesto ends with an endorsement of the government of hamas...an offshoot of the only remaining branch of the -muslim brotherhood- that refuses to disavow violence...
well i see right through you...
i have known about the muslim brotherhood for a long time...they are not generally a positive force...but at this point just about anyone would be better for human rights than assad... at least the muslim brotherhood has not killed anyone since the 1970s...except for its palestinian branch known as hamas which still loves violence...
you are showing still more ignorance about syria when you accuse NATO and the mossad and AFRICOM of plotting to 'balkanize' syria... your most obvious mistake is your attempt to implicate AFRICOM...when actually the united states' operations in the middle east fall under the authority of CENTCOM...
more importantly you fail to realize that the syrian region has practically never been united before the 1940s...the land has been either controlled by a larger power such as the ottoman empire...or else it has been divided into smaller kingdoms and republics... what you call 'balkanization' is closer to the syria's natural state than the dictatorship that controls that area today...
the manifesto you have posted is a perfect example of how the palestinian christians are also being worldly and indifferent to the suffering of their neighbors...in defiance of God's command to us to love our neighbors...
this manifesto is basically an anti israeli rant except for the last point...and there is no condemnation of the many crimes committed against israel by palestinians... your document shows that palestinian christians do not love their non christian -jewish- neighbors...
and ironically this manifesto ends with an endorsement of the government of hamas...an offshoot of the only remaining branch of the -muslim brotherhood- that refuses to disavow violence...
R
israel is not perfect...but compared to most of its neighbors...israel has yet to commit a massacre of tens of thousands of civilians for one thing...
the fact that you single out israel for criticism...while ignoring or even -defending- those who are killing tens of thousands...shows that your motivation is antisemitic...
and the absurd lengths you go to in order to spread antisemitic contentions are shown by your ridiculous claim that israel is somehow responsible for the violence of the 'arab spring'... the direction of the arab spring has been almost entirely opposite to israel's interests...an islamist government has replaced the pro israel mubarak government in egypt and created lawlessness on israel's southern border...hezbollah has taken over lebanon and set up a hostile government on israel's northern border...chaos in libya has resulted in unprecedented black market access to heavy weaponry for israel's enemies everywhere...and any regime change in jordan would result in the replacement of a pro israel king with a hostile islamist regime on israel's eastern border...
this overturning of governments in the arab world has resulted in an israel more surrounded by heavily armed enemies than at any other time in decades...and yet you claim that it is actively driving these events... the only possible motivation for you to present this kind of impossible conspiracy theory is antisemitism...if anything bad happens you blame the jews...
and when i mentioned the antisemitic agenda...i was referring to the antisemitic agenda being pushed by you and tribesman and other 'christian antizionists' like you on this forum...which seems to happen in waves here... you are just the latest iteration of a long line of this evil that has been exposed here...
the rest of your post is just document spamming that is geared towards baiting me into a different debate to distract everyone from the debate you are currently losing...so i will ignore it...
the fact that you single out israel for criticism...while ignoring or even -defending- those who are killing tens of thousands...shows that your motivation is antisemitic...
and the absurd lengths you go to in order to spread antisemitic contentions are shown by your ridiculous claim that israel is somehow responsible for the violence of the 'arab spring'... the direction of the arab spring has been almost entirely opposite to israel's interests...an islamist government has replaced the pro israel mubarak government in egypt and created lawlessness on israel's southern border...hezbollah has taken over lebanon and set up a hostile government on israel's northern border...chaos in libya has resulted in unprecedented black market access to heavy weaponry for israel's enemies everywhere...and any regime change in jordan would result in the replacement of a pro israel king with a hostile islamist regime on israel's eastern border...
this overturning of governments in the arab world has resulted in an israel more surrounded by heavily armed enemies than at any other time in decades...and yet you claim that it is actively driving these events... the only possible motivation for you to present this kind of impossible conspiracy theory is antisemitism...if anything bad happens you blame the jews...
and when i mentioned the antisemitic agenda...i was referring to the antisemitic agenda being pushed by you and tribesman and other 'christian antizionists' like you on this forum...which seems to happen in waves here... you are just the latest iteration of a long line of this evil that has been exposed here...
the rest of your post is just document spamming that is geared towards baiting me into a different debate to distract everyone from the debate you are currently losing...so i will ignore it...
R
the fact of the matter is that antizionism -is- antisemitism...your denials notwithstanding...there is simply no other possible motivation to single out just one state for the mountain of criticism you heap on israel alone...
your mention of the inquisition is ironic since the inquisition persecuted jews in medieval europe...
i am not demanding that anyone recognize israel as a fulfillment of end time prophecy or that non christian jews are still God's exclusively chosen people...in fact i disagree with those views... instead i am rebuking those who because of racism or religious bigotry have argued that the jewish people are not entitled to what nearly every other nation on the planet has been granted...security in their own secular state... and i also rebuke those like you who question the christianity of anyone who disagrees with such wicked contentions...
so far i haven't heard anyone here argue that the saudis or the bhutanis should be deprived of their right to a secure state in their homeland...and i haven't heard anyone here claim that those nations are evil whenever they defend that right... for some reason israel is the only state anyone wants to single out for elimination...why?
you say you are aware of muslim arab violence...you say you reject saudi arabia and qatar and egypt...yet up until this point you have focused your attacks entirely on israel...and you only disparaged these other nations when you were called out for antisemitism...why?
i also hardly ever see any buddhist bashing on this site...but for some reason jew bashers come to this site in waves on a semiregular basis...why?
could it be because the people engaging in this antizionism and jew bashing have a special hatred in their hearts towards the jewish people?
non christian religions that do not actively oppose christianity are not antichristian...see mark 9:40... they are simply non christian just like the rest of the unsaved world... they need the gospel...not condemnation...and especially not condemnation based on outrageous lies and false doctrine...
christians have their number one loyalty to -christ- and his commands...not to any other members of the 'club'...this is not a fraternity...
if someone calls themselves a christian...yet they coddle and enable professing christians who do what christ has commanded against...then they betray christ...and -that- makes them antichristian...it means they are of the world and its wickedness...and not of the kingdom of God...
if your first loyalty is to people who support a mass murderer...just because those people profess to be christians...then no we are not 'on the same board'...
you are not standing with God's true people unless you are standing on God's commands...and you are not standing with the true church of christ unless you are standing on christ's teachings...
your mention of the inquisition is ironic since the inquisition persecuted jews in medieval europe...
i am not demanding that anyone recognize israel as a fulfillment of end time prophecy or that non christian jews are still God's exclusively chosen people...in fact i disagree with those views... instead i am rebuking those who because of racism or religious bigotry have argued that the jewish people are not entitled to what nearly every other nation on the planet has been granted...security in their own secular state... and i also rebuke those like you who question the christianity of anyone who disagrees with such wicked contentions...
so far i haven't heard anyone here argue that the saudis or the bhutanis should be deprived of their right to a secure state in their homeland...and i haven't heard anyone here claim that those nations are evil whenever they defend that right... for some reason israel is the only state anyone wants to single out for elimination...why?
you say you are aware of muslim arab violence...you say you reject saudi arabia and qatar and egypt...yet up until this point you have focused your attacks entirely on israel...and you only disparaged these other nations when you were called out for antisemitism...why?
i also hardly ever see any buddhist bashing on this site...but for some reason jew bashers come to this site in waves on a semiregular basis...why?
could it be because the people engaging in this antizionism and jew bashing have a special hatred in their hearts towards the jewish people?
non christian religions that do not actively oppose christianity are not antichristian...see mark 9:40... they are simply non christian just like the rest of the unsaved world... they need the gospel...not condemnation...and especially not condemnation based on outrageous lies and false doctrine...
christians have their number one loyalty to -christ- and his commands...not to any other members of the 'club'...this is not a fraternity...
if someone calls themselves a christian...yet they coddle and enable professing christians who do what christ has commanded against...then they betray christ...and -that- makes them antichristian...it means they are of the world and its wickedness...and not of the kingdom of God...
if your first loyalty is to people who support a mass murderer...just because those people profess to be christians...then no we are not 'on the same board'...
you are not standing with God's true people unless you are standing on God's commands...and you are not standing with the true church of christ unless you are standing on christ's teachings...
E
Re: CBS: Syria's Christians stand by Assad
Complete whitewash of facts.
More hasbara garbage.
Refusal to acknowledge the major entity consistently performing acts of terrorism against their so-called greatest ally, The United States, and all others who they intend to tread underfoot.
Appalling willingness to side with the genocidal Harlot, the greatest haters in the world, posing as an inclusive democracy while in reality the worst fascist/racist nation on earth blackmailing and threatening the globe.
next....
Complete whitewash of facts.
More hasbara garbage.
Refusal to acknowledge the major entity consistently performing acts of terrorism against their so-called greatest ally, The United States, and all others who they intend to tread underfoot.
Appalling willingness to side with the genocidal Harlot, the greatest haters in the world, posing as an inclusive democracy while in reality the worst fascist/racist nation on earth blackmailing and threatening the globe.
next....
Last edited: