Let's Play Chess Against Putin

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crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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#21
I have been fine here in China and for two days suddenly had the worst horrific spiritual attacks and it felt as if I was back in the U.S. Then I looked in the news and saw that Obama was here in Beijing. Coincidence? I think NOT.
That's hilarious...but sadly believable.
 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
4,995
53
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#22
IMHO:

Hum. Playing chess. I wonder if our president is up to that; what US president has been up to that? Did Pres Bush II see what was coming? Chess requires the ability to see several moves ahead. You analyze the board: If I do this, what will the opponent do? Then what can I do to that? And what then will be his response. In human history the problem is confounded by many persons playing the game at once; & God Almighty having His input. Figuring out God's next move is daunting, at least for me. Things seem to come out of the woodwork all of a sudden. Now who anticipated Arab Spring? And in 1980, who anticipated the slide to Sodom, not just in the USA, but in much of the world -- not so much in Russia though. I never anticipated the Southern invasion of the USA either, all the Hispanic TV stations, the push 1 for Spanish, public documents routinely in Spanish. And I never predicted the horrible mess that Mexico is in now: lawlessness, drug lords, kidnappings; mass murders.

I certainly never anticipated the election of Obamer. I thought that he was sort of something for Hilary to run against, maybe to make her not seem so radical. The course of my personal life has not at all been as I thought it would go when I was 18 years old.

Obama must have gotten a lesson in realizing that he hasn't a clue by this Syria debacle, leading to ISIS.

Are we really better off for getting rid of Arab dictators?

Now as to Mr Putin, I think we have to understand that it is outrageous to think that Russia is going to stand by idly while Nato unites all the ex-Soviet countries around Russia into Nato & leaves out Russia. Putin seems to be on the same course as Adolf Hitler in the Putin doctrine that wherever there are former Russians living & in the majority in some subsection of a nation, he can go in and annex it to Russia by having them vote it. This happened first in Georgia & now in the Ukraine. But given the Nuclear Arms situation, the USA & the West are now afraid to go to war as they did vs Hitler. It was Western Europe which declared war on Hitler (not vice versa) when he was trying to connect Germany with the outlying part of Germany which I believe was separated from the main part of Germany with the contiguous Germany given to Poland at the end of WWI.

I think that the basic division East & West of the disintegrated Roman Empire (2 legs of Dan 2) will continue.

I just think it is time for the Rapture. Of course the Lord doesn't quite agree with me, since some time has elapsed since I wrote that time for the Rapture sentence.

Come, Lord Jesus.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,707
3,650
113
#23
IMHO:

Hum. Playing chess. I wonder if our president is up to that; what US president has been up to that? Did Pres Bush II see what was coming? Chess requires the ability to see several moves ahead. You analyze the board: If I do this, what will the opponent do? Then what can I do to that? And what then will be his response. In human history the problem is confounded by many persons playing the game at once; & God Almighty having His input. Figuring out God's next move is daunting, at least for me. Things seem to come out of the woodwork all of a sudden. Now who anticipated Arab Spring? And in 1980, who anticipated the slide to Sodom, not just in the USA, but in much of the world -- not so much in Russia though. I never anticipated the Southern invasion of the USA either, all the Hispanic TV stations, the push 1 for Spanish, public documents routinely in Spanish. And I never predicted the horrible mess that Mexico is in now: lawlessness, drug lords, kidnappings; mass murders.

I certainly never anticipated the election of Obamer. I thought that he was sort of something for Hilary to run against, maybe to make her not seem so radical. The course of my personal life has not at all been as I thought it would go when I was 18 years old.

Obama must have gotten a lesson in realizing that he hasn't a clue by this Syria debacle, leading to ISIS.

Are we really better off for getting rid of Arab dictators?

Now as to Mr Putin, I think we have to understand that it is outrageous to think that Russia is going to stand by idly while Nato unites all the ex-Soviet countries around Russia into Nato & leaves out Russia. Putin seems to be on the same course as Adolf Hitler in the Putin doctrine that wherever there are former Russians living & in the majority in some subsection of a nation, he can go in and annex it to Russia by having them vote it. This happened first in Georgia & now in the Ukraine. But given the Nuclear Arms situation, the USA & the West are now afraid to go to war as they did vs Hitler. It was Western Europe which declared war on Hitler (not vice versa) when he was trying to connect Germany with the outlying part of Germany which I believe was separated from the main part of Germany with the contiguous Germany given to Poland at the end of WWI.

I think that the basic division East & West of the disintegrated Roman Empire (2 legs of Dan 2) will continue.

I just think it is time for the Rapture. Of course the Lord doesn't quite agree with me, since some time has elapsed since I wrote that time for the Rapture sentence.

Come, Lord Jesus.
nice. Have you ever played four way chess on an extended board? Probably a little closer to the same sensation Obama is up against.

kqa_chess-games-and-software_4-way-chess.gif
 
Oct 30, 2014
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#24
sorry, I try not to answer snickering questions.
Meet foolishness with foolishness mate, just to show up the folly. You can't state some random assertion without any evidence to back it up.

Einstein is an alien.
 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
4,995
53
48
#25
nice. Have you ever played four way chess on an extended board? Probably a little closer to the same sensation Obama is up against.

View attachment 91892
I had no idea there was such a game. Such a game would have the added psychological dimension of persons ganging up on each other also. It would partly be like a survivor game where persons cut deals (I'll vote for you if you vote for me), alliances. I suppose there would have to be rules about talking & whispering in another player's ear.

I will check it out.

I note that the corners were cut out of the extended board,
But international politics is like that, but there are many more players than 4.

To some extent international politics is like playing Road Runner. Perhaps you have noted that in Road Runner, there are 3 characters: 1) the Road Runner, 2) Wiley Coyote, and 3) GOD!

In your link Kasparov likened Putin to a poker player, rather than chess -- like a person playing poker against chess players. I guess you can't bluff with chess. However, I don't see Putin bluffing. I see him acting. He invades an area with troops, an area beside Russia, not on other side of the earth. He uses low budget, but effective intervention. The USA is more likely to choose tar babies on other side of the globe against which to squander resources.

Is it a bluff in the Ukraine to have no response in mind, but embarrassment at a bluff, if NATO sent troops in also & warred vs Russians in the Ukraine? Or is it obvious that NATO is not going to do that & does not have the logistics to carry it out anyway? I suppose Putin might be said to gamble that the USA won't use air power -- but how much of a gamble is that? Going back to post WWII, the USA has not been willing to intervene at long distance to save Russia's neighbors.

I will check into the 4 way chess game. Thanks

If you have played that game, tell me how it went, please.

I am imagining a chess game where anyone could move as fast as he wished, not taking turns.
 
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crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,707
3,650
113
#26
Meet foolishness with foolishness mate, just to show up the folly. You can't state some random assertion without any evidence to back it up.

Einstein is an alien.
...or snickering comments...bye
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,707
3,650
113
#27
I had no idea there was such a game. Such a game would have the added psychological dimension of persons ganging up on each other also. It would partly be like a survivor game where persons cut deals (I'll vote for you if you vote for me), alliances. I suppose there would have to be rules about talking & whispering in another player's ear.

I will check it out.

I note that the corners were cut out of the extended board,
But international politics is like that, but there are many more players than 4.

To some extent international politics is like playing Road Runner. Perhaps you have noted that in Road Runner, there are 3 characters: 1) the Road Runner, 2) Wiley Coyote, and 3) GOD!

In your link Kasparov likened Putin to a poker player, rather than chess -- like a person playing poker against chess players. I guess you can't bluff with chess. However, I don't see Putin bluffing. I see him acting. He invades an area with troops, an area beside Russia, not on other side of the earth. He uses low budget, but effective intervention. The USA is more likely to choose tar babies on other side of the globe against which to squander resources.

Is it a bluff in the Ukraine to have no response in mind, but embarrassment at a bluff, if NATO sent troops in also & warred vs Russians in the Ukraine? Or is it obvious that NATO is not going to do that & does not have the logistics to carry it out anyway? I suppose Putin might be said to gamble that the USA won't use air power -- but how much of a gamble is that? Going back to post WWII, the USA has not been willing to intervene at long distance to save Russia's neighbors.

I will check into the 4 way chess game. Thanks

If you have played that game, tell me how it went, please.

I am imagining a chess game where anyone could move as fast as he wished, not taking turns.
I have played many variations of chess but not fourway. It was your comment,' In human history the problem is confounded by many persons playing the game at once' that triggered that idea.

I'm not all that sure of Kasparov's assessment, I have always thought of the Russians as more strategic thinkers taking their time between moves whereas us Yanks are quicker to shoot from the hip, yelling 'full house' while all along the other side is holding four of a kind.
 
Dec 18, 2013
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#28
Well in terms of both Obama and Putin along with Xi Jinping and other heads of state and nobility of the major empires of the present time some interesting recent news that they have met at a high profile event hosted by China. Many interesting little details of this high profile event, but the substance of course is always glossed over, but this just happened recently so it is no wonder.

Lol there are two little things being talked about though in geo-political media which I find somewhat funny. First is Putin putting a shawl over Peng Liyuan, the wife of Xi Jinping. While on the surface a seemingly benign gesture this little incident has been totally erased from Chinese state media. The reasoning being is people began speculating whether Putin was flirting with Peng Liyuan or elsewise Peng Liyuan charmed Putin, or even that Putin made an advance on Peng Liyuan and she rebuffed him. Pretty much any number of high school drama theories you can think of lol.

Chinese censors wipe Putin's move on China's first lady - CNN.com

Obama was not spared criticism either. Obama was seen to be chewing gum which apparantly like in middle school is seen to be a bad habit especially for such a high profile event.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6-ZOY5fxFg
[video=youtube;R6-ZOY5fxFg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6-ZOY5fxFg[/video]
 
A

AgeofKnowledge

Guest
#29
A number of U.S. presidents definitely were up to the task garnering big gains for America during their presidencies. Probably the most surprising one in that group would have been Ronald Reagan.

Hollywood actor, average intelligence, etc... but he had some real stars around him that he listened to and the result was a strategy that literally caused our greatest enemy (e.g. Soviet Union) to fold leaving a pile of chips on the table.

Unfortunately, his successors simply scooped those chips off the table and handed most of them to China in one of the stupidest socio-economic blunders the U.S. has ever made.


IMHO: Hum. Playing chess. I wonder if our president is up to that; what US president has been up to that?
 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
4,995
53
48
#30
I have played many variations of chess but not fourway. It was your comment,' In human history the problem is confounded by many persons playing the game at once' that triggered that idea.

I'm not all that sure of Kasparov's assessment, I have always thought of the Russians as more strategic thinkers taking their time between moves whereas us Yanks are quicker to shoot from the hip, yelling 'full house' while all along the other side is holding four of a kind.
The only variety of chess I was familiar with, different from standard, is the one where the bishop moves 3 diagonal squares & jumps like a knight.

IMHO, it is the ancient Assyrians that knew how to wage war.
You go in, you stomp, you set a stooge on the throne, you require tribute, & you leave. You let
'em know that if the tribute stops or they displease you, why you will be back to stomp again. You do not stick around & parade down the street for enemies to take pot shots at you. Bush I knew how to do war. IMHO, both Iraq & Afghanistan were won, but then they decided to stay & horse around. Imagine all the young men who have lost arms & legs in this.

You got to know hold to hold 'em;
Know how to fold 'em. . . .

And of course the Assyrians were capable of solving the problem of recurrent rebellion by deporting populations.
 
Oct 30, 2014
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#31
The only variety of chess I was familiar with, different from standard, is the one where the bishop moves 3 diagonal squares & jumps like a knight.

IMHO, it is the ancient Assyrians that knew how to wage war.
You go in, you stomp, you set a stooge on the throne, you require tribute, & you leave. You let
'em know that if the tribute stops or they displease you, why you will be back to stomp again. You do not stick around & parade down the street for enemies to take pot shots at you. Bush I knew how to do war. IMHO, both Iraq & Afghanistan were won, but then they decided to stay & horse around. Imagine all the young men who have lost arms & legs in this.

You got to know hold to hold 'em;
Know how to fold 'em. . . .

And of course the Assyrians were capable of solving the problem of recurrent rebellion by deporting populations.
So basically you think Bush should have gone in, butchered and stomped then deported the Iraqi people off their own land? Very Jesus-like of you :/ Iraq's the cradle of civilization, the site of the Garden of Eden, and a place full of people much more respectful than you seem to be.
 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
4,995
53
48
#32
A number of U.S. presidents definitely were up to the task garnering big gains for America during their presidencies. Probably the most surprising one in that group would have been Ronald Reagan.

Hollywood actor, average intelligence, etc... but he had some real stars around him that he listened to and the result was a strategy that literally caused our greatest enemy (e.g. Soviet Union) to fold leaving a pile of chips on the table.

Unfortunately, his successors simply scooped those chips off the table and handed most of them to China in one of the stupidest socio-economic blunders the U.S. has ever made.
Ah yes, the Ray Gun man, astrologer. I guess he tried to see moves ahead by astrologers. Apparently Reagan's great military build up ruined Russia economically as Russia tried to keep up. Somehow it seems to have led to the destruction of the Berlin wall, the end of the cold war, and the break up of the Soviet Union -- though I am not sure that it was Reagan's policies that had that effect. Also, I doubt he saw that such would happen. The break up of the Soviet Union was the last thing I ever expected with the collapse of western communism. Perhaps it was Gorbachev who was responsible for those events, his infection with western liberalism. Or are we just seeing God act in history?

As to cause & effect, it seems to me that much of the modern malaise can be laid at the feet of Woodrow Wilson. IMHO: Had Wilson not entered WWI, a stalemate would be been resolved with little change. With Wilson butting into the European war, Germany lost, communism was preserved in Russia, the Kaiser was deposed, unpayable reparations were put on Germany, and the preparation for Adolf Hitler was made. Then we can blame Wilson on Teddy Roosevelt. If Teddy had not run a 3rd party candidancy, Wilson would not have been elected, and probably Republican Washingtonian isolationism would have prevailed. But who knows what will be the outcome when the first domino is pushed.

Our current mess? Who knows the way out of it aside from the return of the Lord. Men have surely proven that they cannot rule themselves and the world in their present sinful state.
 
Dec 18, 2013
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#33
Was reading the news today and saw this article:

NATO's Russian plane intercepts top 400 this year - CNN.com

Is something of a follow-up story in regards to Russian and NATO air activity (see article on page 1 of this topic.) In this article NATO claims it has had to scramble fighter jets over 400 times in just this year alone due to Russian air activity. Important to note, not all of the cases involve Russia trespassing over NATO airspace, but some were due to suspicious activity, ie: Russian warplanes refusing to communicate with civillian air traffic controllers, Russian airplanes deviating from flight plans, etc.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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#34
sorry, I try not to answer snickering questions.
Amen and not to mention the fact if it had not been for the most overkilled military in the world, the country where they come from and lend lease his flag would be a swastika and he would be speaking German instead of English!
 
Dec 12, 2013
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#35
So basically you think Bush should have gone in, butchered and stomped then deported the Iraqi people off their own land? Very Jesus-like of you :/ Iraq's the cradle of civilization, the site of the Garden of Eden, and a place full of people much more respectful than you seem to be.
Why don't you move there if it is such a great place to live?
 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
4,995
53
48
#36
So basically . . . Bush should have gone in, butchered and stomped then deported the Iraqi people off their own land? . . . :/ Iraq's the cradle of civilization, the site of the Garden of Eden, and a place full of people much more respectful
I speak of how to wage war as illustrated by some Ancient (respectful?) Iraqis, namely the Assyrians, and how to wage war & pacify an enemy successfully. No, the butcher blade is out of fashion, unless you are an Islamist. But failing to decisively defeat leads to long term killing instead of finishing the mess once & for all. Note how Bush I did not make that mistake.

If Iraq is the Garden of Eden (proof?) and if it is the cradle of civilization (proof?), what does that have to do with how to wage war?

The question of the propriety of waging the war is a separate question, as is that of how a piece of land becomes designated as some people's "own land." Coming up with an accurate "respectful rating" is not immediately apparent. Every land in history has a succession of different inhabitants and "owners."

Full of respectful people? I presume that like all nations, the nation is full of sinful, selfish persons.
How much respect does a man have who feeds his opponents into wood-chipping machines?

I don't speak of the mission that the Lord Jesus gave to Christians, which is another topic. No nation on earth is Christian, nor do I expect any ever to be Christian before the Lord Jesus returns.
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
30,229
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#40
QUOTE:

So basically you think Bush should have gone in, butchered and stomped then deported the Iraqi people off their own land? Very Jesus-like of you :/ Iraq's the cradle of civilization, the site of the Garden of Eden, and a place full of people much more respectful than you seem to be.

END QUOTE...........


Conjecture?