New report: 36 million people worldwide live as slaves

[maxwel]

Oh. But, this has been going on in the news for a while now (check BBC). So, if people read or watch the news on a regular basis, I'm sure they would have come across this issue of slavery and how many slaves there are in the world. Heck, there's SO much slavery going on in my city, which many people are oblivious to, though they do know about it. Whether it is 3.6 million (which I think there is more BTW), or 3600 slaves, there's still the issue of slavery that is being addressed in this thread.

What I found strange is that you didn't respond to any of the OP's questions on slavery, and instead all your posts were on not being deceptive to the readers and providing proof. Come on! Everyone, here, knows that slavery is still happening. Moreover, I didn't know that people got onto CC to READ the news. Anyone can google any "claims" made on here and know in a matter of seconds whether it is true or false. But, I think you spent a lot of good time and energy in reprimanding the OP and other folk, rather than researching the topic and/or providing your insight in the matter.

This is the NEWS forum.

It isn't the responsibility of the reader to research the OP's topic to see if it's even a real article.

The OP has the responsibility to post something factual, and give a link.
That isn't complicated.
I'm also not mad at the OP about anything,
but when you make claims, you need to post links to the info that backs up that claim.

This isn't complicated.
The OP made a specific claim, he just needs to post a link to support that.
No big deal.

We can't discuss a particular thing until we know something FACTUAL about that thing.
Without SPECIFIC FACTS, we are just discussing rumor and hearsay.

This isn't complicated.
We just need links to things.
Easy peasy.

 

[gene77]

Slavery is happening, people. The true social form of it. I've met former slaves, most of them children. I've helped educate them. And, it REALLY distresses me when I read posts where people take the issue and flip it on to other issues, pertaining to themselves. Slavery by sin? That's not the topic being discussed here. Debts that you take and can't pay and then get hounded by collect callers? That is also not the topic being discussed here.

If any of you have actually been in the midst of slavery and slave labor, and have actually seen what those poor, poor children and adults go through on a daily basis, your lives would change. You would thank God every day for His blessings in your life. I'm so so so disturbed right now with some of the posts that I am reading.

People just dismiss the topic, because they frankly do not care. It deeply saddens me. I'm so glad that my church takes a stand against slavery, human trafficking, in rescuing girls from forced prostitution, and in building numerous churches where others have been burned down. And, I'm definitely glad that my tithes and offerings go for good causes like this.

My family runs an NGO. I hold back tears every time I listen to the stories of these children. Many of them are children of lepers. It breaks my heart. I really do pray that more people (Christians and non-Christians) around the world will pay attention and start caring about these issues, because they are VERY real. And, 3.6 million is a small number in comparison to the real truth. So, instead of debating numbers and accurate "facts", we should help in whatever way we can. We can all sit here, debate about these topics and at most feel sorry for the people. But, that's not what the Bible tells us to do. I encourage everyone to watch any one documentary on slavery. Preferably a BBC one.

 

[Roamer]

Let me try this again.

I have this personal problem where I get bent out of shape when people post NEWS,
and state things as facts, without giving credible sources.

Although this is a real issue, I could probably deal with it in a calmer way.
: )

I'm sure the OP, Roamer, had the best intentions,
but the support he gave for his post was still a bit thin.

It would be best if he found a link to that survey,
and then just posted the link, so that we can all see it.
If he can post additional articles corroborating it,
that's even better... but not critical.

As Christians, we tend to be very passionate about certain injustices.
That's a good thing.
But sometimes this passion drives us to latch onto stories that aren't actually documented.
Because of this, well meaning people often post NEWS stories that aren't even real stories.
It happens.
We should try to be more astute, and more vigilant.

I'm sure Roamer had only the best intentions,
but mentioning the name of a group who did a survey we haven't seen...
that isn't the same as documenting the story.
He needs to post some links when he has time to do so.
I'm sure it's a real survey, and he's an intelligent and honest person,
but we still need links and documentation when we post NEWS.

Apologies to everyone if I sounded agitated or accusatory,
but well-meaning Christians often post news stories without checking the facts.
It happens so often that the mere appearance of it upsets me.

I'll do my part, and try to breathe into the bag.
But lets all do our part about proper fact-checking and documentation.
: )

I have to admit I'm a bit dismayed at this response.

Yes, I forgot to include a hyperlink for you to click on at your convenience. For this I apologise, as it seems creating the need for you to exert extra effort seems to have been the cause of your apoplectic attack. However, I assume you have access to and know how to use Google (as ChristIsGod did, for which I am grateful to her). "36 million" and "Walk Free" would have done the job and linked you to the original survey, as well as widespread coverage by the BBC, TIME, Forbes, Aljazeera, Wash Po and 200+ other news outlets with additional commentary. As for your request for detailed analysis of the methodology and data (carried out and collected by Gallup) for said report, I would have happily submitted a full dissertation thesis for your critique were I convinced that your militant posting was motivated by a compassionate desire to learn more about this grave issue.

Disturbingly, however, I saw no such desire in the eight posts you devoted to expressing your disdain for a missing hyperlink, not one of which enlightened anyone reading this thread about the well-documented issue of modern-day slavery and what our response as Christians could or should be. I am disheartened that one could spend so much effort crafting vitriol while not sparing a single constructive thought to the topic at hand. When you're done with self-righteously breathing into a bag, you can pass it to me.

I understand the value of claims backed by verifiable evidence as much as the next intelligent being, but I do not appreciate entirely unnecessary and condescending hand-wringing over a minor omission, conducted under the pretentious veil of Great Protector of the Integrity of the News forum.

Oh and maxwel - the above written in full confidence that you are a well-meaning, intelligent and honest person.

Having said that, there have been some good points raised by other posters which I hope to address later, and which will spark more constructive discussion and prayer over this. If we are to take seriously the command to love God with all our heart, and love our neighbours as ourselves, it seems this is not an issue we can idly ignore.

 

[maxwel]

I have to admit I'm a bit dismayed at this response.

Yes, I forgot to include a hyperlink for you to click on at your convenience. For this I apologise, as it seems creating the need for you to exert extra effort seems to have been the cause of your apoplectic attack. However, I assume you have access to and know how to use Google (as ChristIsGod did, for which I am grateful to her). "36 million" and "Walk Free" would have done the job and linked you to the original survey, as well as widespread coverage by the BBC, TIME, Forbes, Aljazeera, Wash Po and 200+ other news outlets with additional commentary. As for your request for detailed analysis of the methodology and data (carried out and collected by Gallup) for said report, I would have happily submitted a full dissertation thesis for your critique were I convinced that your militant posting was motivated by a compassionate desire to learn more about this grave issue.

Disturbingly, however, I saw no such desire in the eight posts you devoted to expressing your disdain for a missing hyperlink, not one of which enlightened anyone reading this thread about the well-documented issue of modern-day slavery and what our response as Christians could or should be. I am disheartened that one could spend so much effort crafting vitriol while not sparing a single constructive thought to the topic at hand. When you're done with self-righteously breathing into a bag, you can pass it to me.

I understand the value of claims backed by verifiable evidence as much as the next intelligent being, but I do not appreciate entirely unnecessary and condescending hand-wringing over a minor omission, conducted under the pretentious veil of Great Protector of the Integrity of the News forum.

Oh and maxwel - the above written in full confidence that you are a well-meaning, intelligent and honest person.

Having said that, there have been some good points raised by other posters which I hope to address later, and which will spark more constructive discussion and prayer over this. If we are to take seriously the command to love God with all our heart, and love our neighbours as ourselves, it seems this is not an issue we can idly ignore.

I'm sorry you're dismayed that I asked for a link.

Thank you for posting a link.

 

[Atwood]

There is an incredible amount of evil happening in the world.
Man's capacity for depraved action is great.
Even at the end of the millennium there is a rebellion.

 

[Atwood]

Thank you for posting a link.

Well, 86, judging from your Avatar/Thumbnail, you may like this verse:

22 The lamp of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.

 

[Roamer]

I'm sorry you're dismayed that I asked for a link.

Thank you for posting a link.

You are mistaken. I'm dismayed that you used multiple posts and several hundred words to kick up a ruckus about a missing link, rather than helpfully post a link you could have found on Google in seconds. Ironically, on a thread about modern-day slavery, which I assume is of far greater importance than absent links.

Water under the bridge. There are more important things at hand.

 

[maxwel]

Given God's demand for justice and heart for the poor and oppressed, I'd be interested to know how big of an issue this is for us, our respective churches and Christian circles. Does your pastor speak about slavery? Do we consider it in our bible studies? Does your church devote time and resources to help end it?

The abolition movement in the 1800s was led by devout Christians - what kind of role does the current church have in the fight against modern-day slavery? Respectful thoughts appreciated.

Does your pastor speak about slavery?
Do we consider it in our bible studies?
Does your church devote time and resources to help end it?
What kind of role does the current church have in the fight against modern-day slavery?

Biblically, the first and primary concern of the church is spreading the gospel.
Any kind of slavery is terrible, and I'm sure we all agree, but the first concern of the New Testament church is the gospel, which must have preeminence over social issues.

I think slaves should all be free.

However, if there aren't financial resources, human resources, or political resources, or even political will to make that happen, those people can still have spiritual freedom in Christ. And their spiritual freedom through Christs lasts for eternity.

Since a person's ETERNITY is much longer than the time they spend on earth, and since other institutions outside the church are CERTAINLY NOT going to be concerned with a person's salvation, I think the New Testament church should focus primarily on the gospel, and participate in social issues as an important but secondary concern. That is also biblical.

 

[gene77]

Does your pastor speak about slavery?
Do we consider it in our bible studies?
Does your church devote time and resources to help end it?
What kind of role does the current church have in the fight against modern-day slavery?

Biblically, the first and primary concern of the church is spreading the gospel.
Any kind of slavery is terrible, and I'm sure we all agree, but the first concern of the New Testament church is the gospel, which must have preeminence over social issues.

I think slaves should all be free.

However, if there aren't financial resources, human resources, or political resources, or even political will to make that happen, those people can still have spiritual freedom in Christ. And their spiritual freedom through Christs lasts for eternity.

Since a person's ETERNITY is much longer than the time they spend on earth, and since other institutions outside the church are CERTAINLY NOT going to be concerned with a person's salvation, I think the New Testament church should focus primarily on the gospel, and participate in social issues as an important but secondary concern. That is also biblical.

Maxwel, I definitely respect your views. However, I feel that ministry and social service go hand in hand.

When missionaries stepped in India, they first looked at building schools and hospitals for the people, and through their love,attention, and help, they preached the gospel, and people then, listened to them. Sometimes, preaching the gospel to people directly does not help.

Imagine meeting slaves or other people in dire need of help, and preaching to them about Jesus and true eternity, and doing nothing to help them, because you spent your resources and time on preaching, and you can't really do anything to help them out. They wouldn't even want to listen, because for them, their primary need is physical freedom from bondage or whatever they are going through. So, in such a scenario, it would be more apt to work towards helping them, and when they know that you are helping them, they will listen to what you have to preach to them.

Jesus on many occasions, helped people first and then preached to them. He did not say- First promise me that you will sin no more, etc, and only then will I heal you. Instead, he first helped them, and then he told them what they ought to do.
Another good example to look at is the Billy Graham family. They spend equal amounts of time and resources in social work as in ministry. I think churches are called to be of help to other people, while spreading the Good News to them, through love.

As per my family's NGO, we educate street children, house orphans, and have medical camps, and have a church service for the poor people, where we give them meals as well. So, it does both. We first help them, and then, preach the gospel to them. And, many of them have come to the Lord. You'll be amazed at what powerful prayers some of these 5-6 year old kids pray, in good English. It's amazing!

So, according to me, I don't think there should be a "primary" concern and a "secondary" concern. I think both should be done equally. And, the best part is that through helping anyone out socially, you get a big opportunity to share the gospel with them, because that's when they actually will listen to what you have to say.

When any of my unbeliever friends are in distress, I just ask them if I can pray for them, and not a single one has turned that down. And, to their surprise, I pray then and there, with them. And, I make sure to help them in whatever way I can. And, it has paid off, because some of them have come back and asked me more about Jesus and the Bible. I've even had the greatest joy and privilege to gift my best friend (who is a Hindu) the Bible. *happy dance*

 

[Atwood]

Maxwel, I definitely respect your views. However, I feel that ministry and social service go hand in hand.

But the question is, What does God's Word teach respecting the Church's responsibility in the world? Of course we are to love neighbor as self. But the Church does not own the problem of needed "social services." And from where does this "social service" idea come? Social service is not the same thing as individual service.

The Lord has given human government limited responsibility at least to help the poor (Dan 4). The Church is responsible for the Church, not the world's physical needs.

Mark 14: "7 For ye have the poor always with you, and whensoever ye will ye can do them good:"

James 1 "27Pure religion and undefiled before our God and Father is this, to visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep oneself unspotted from the world."

Charitable acts for physical needs are a part of being a Christian; but I don't know that this should be termed "social services."

Actually I think history has Christians building hospitals and schools, which are then taken over by the ungodly, with Christianity unwelcome in the institutions they founded.

 

[Roh_Chris]

I think we as Christians are given the responsibility to make the world a better place. We are called to be the light of the world. James has challenged us to show the faith through our works (James 2:14-26)

I am aware of this report which has been recently published. We as Christians, ought to live responsibly. Churches ought to take a stance against social evils like bonded labour/slavery, caste/language/race discrimination, dowry, female infanticide, domestic abuse, sexual abuse, etc. We are all humans first, and God's children second. There is no point in claiming to be a child of God if you turn a blind eye to these evils which exist in society today.

I live in a country where churches do not even insist on their members to follow the road rules. Church pastors themselves break the rules! Am I supposed to accept this behaviour on the grounds that the church is only a place for spiritual growth? NO! A church is a community of Christians which is supposed to benefit us in all facets of life - material, emotional and spiritual. So, I do not agree with the view that Gospel holds the preeminence over social issues.

 

[ChristIsGod]

Very excellent post, gene77, but you all are doing this work because you are Christians. Before Christianity came to India, the most were and still are under a cast system believing the suffering were working out their karma in this life and weren't supposed to be aided in any way ... so that's why the Gospel would be first. And Thank God that in your country, it's a bit more free to "pray with the people" but in some countries and even here in the U.S., if you work for a Medical or food relief facility connected to the State or an UN associated NGO, we can't and those 'christian' orgs that seem to get in where no one else can, are normally those that have somehow compromised the Christian world-view and have come hand-in-hand with the very NGO's that are anti-Christ from their conception.

I can't help but think of places such as N. Korea first and then others on those lines. Shipments of relief get stopped and held by their governments and never reach the needy. Such complex Governmental stories, from country to country.
We only have the hope of the smugglers & missionaries that brave their way through any shipments of gospel material that reach their hands and aren't confiscated at the piers ... but ministries like www.wmpresss.org are miraculously doing it and have, I believe, for approx 50 yrs.

The problem with the lack of caring from the church in general in the free nations is that, the NGOs taking our place in fulfilling the last story of Matthew 25 are connected to the UN. Not all NGOs are connected to it - as yours may not be - and the UN has an agenda that's not pro-life at all, as far as their motives and reasoning concerning what they have planned to do - present & future tense.

We, as the church have failed the world - except for those missionaries & ministries that go the extra 1,000 miles to help - IF [and that's the main word here] - if they can get past the Governments of these many countries. The problem is any nation's Government .... again, like N. Korea. What chance have we to free their slaves? Only smuggling in gospel literature to set their spiritual captives free for all of eternity.
There were slaves and abuse that Jesus & Paul addressed in the N.T. - but the Gospel had to be smuggled in first.

I am grateful - very, for the work that you & yours are involved in, as long as you are independent Christian ngo. Wish to God that that could be possible in all nations, without government prohibition and the Globalist counterfeit agenda and deceptively motived replacement of our help. My thoughts are also with Africa which is being occupied now with greed and abuse from China and other nations. We don't know the half of it - but the African people are being deceived by money that they think will prosper themselves, when the real goal is to just strip them of their natural resources [and elsewhere as well] by those they believe are there to 'help' them.
Most imigrants that flee from slavery, wind up being used for cheap and unsafe labor -- even here in the U.S.. Heart breaking beyond words.

Realistically, our hands are tied in the very nations that need our help the most, to stop these crimes against humanity, but we can aid the missionaries, smugglers and those that print the literature in the very many languages needed.

God Bless you & God help the helpless find their refuge in Him!

 

[maxwel]

Maxwel, I definitely respect your views. However, I feel that ministry and social service go hand in hand.

When missionaries stepped in India, they first looked at building schools and hospitals for the people, and through their love,attention, and help, they preached the gospel, and people then, listened to them. Sometimes, preaching the gospel to people directly does not help.

Imagine meeting slaves or other people in dire need of help, and preaching to them about Jesus and true eternity, and doing nothing to help them, because you spent your resources and time on preaching, and you can't really do anything to help them out. They wouldn't even want to listen, because for them, their primary need is physical freedom from bondage or whatever they are going through. So, in such a scenario, it would be more apt to work towards helping them, and when they know that you are helping them, they will listen to what you have to preach to them.

Jesus on many occasions, helped people first and then preached to them. He did not say- First promise me that you will sin no more, etc, and only then will I heal you. Instead, he first helped them, and then he told them what they ought to do.
Another good example to look at is the Billy Graham family. They spend equal amounts of time and resources in social work as in ministry. I think churches are called to be of help to other people, while spreading the Good News to them, through love.

As per my family's NGO, we educate street children, house orphans, and have medical camps, and have a church service for the poor people, where we give them meals as well. So, it does both. We first help them, and then, preach the gospel to them. And, many of them have come to the Lord. You'll be amazed at what powerful prayers some of these 5-6 year old kids pray, in good English. It's amazing!

So, according to me, I don't think there should be a "primary" concern and a "secondary" concern. I think both should be done equally. And, the best part is that through helping anyone out socially, you get a big opportunity to share the gospel with them, because that's when they actually will listen to what you have to say.

When any of my unbeliever friends are in distress, I just ask them if I can pray for them, and not a single one has turned that down. And, to their surprise, I pray then and there, with them. And, I make sure to help them in whatever way I can. And, it has paid off, because some of them have come back and asked me more about Jesus and the Bible. I've even had the greatest joy and privilege to gift my best friend (who is a Hindu) the Bible. *happy dance*

Gene77,

First of all, it sounds like your family is doing great work, and very important work.

Second of all, it sounds like your family is doing everything in a very astute and biblical fashion.

I think the disagreement we had over the word "preeminence" is a matter of semantics, so let me explain.
It is biblical, and incontrovertible, that the gospel should have preeminence in all we do.
But what does giving the gospel preeminence really mean?
It doesn't mean we don't help the poor.
It doesn't mean we don't feed the hungry.
It doesn't mean we don't take in orphans.
It doesn't mean we give the gospel INSTEAD OF social help.
It doesn't mean we give the gospel BEFORE social help.
Preeminence means that in all we do, salvation of souls is OUR ULTIMATE GOAL.

If the salvation of souls is our ultimate goal,
then if we build an orphanage, we'll run it in the right ways for children to be saved and grow in Christ.

It sounds like your family is doing everything very biblically, and very wisely.
I have nothing to say about your family except to be thankful and appreciative.

So, to wrap up, I don't think you and I are disagreeing.
I think I made an error by not explaining what I meant.
: )

 

[Human]

I'd say if you lie outside the small percentage of people with power over currency, you're a slave. Now, that depends on a very staunch interpretation of the word 'slave', but let's think about it. We live in a world wherein our means to purchase goods (thus eat, sleep sheltered, have heat, energy, light, education, healthcare, provisions, medicines etc) is dependent upon our garnering for ourselves a particular paper printed by a financial institution and loaned to a government with usury.

One definition of slave is a 'person who is excessively dependent upon or controlled by something'. In this sense, we are all slaves to currency, to the fiat system, and ultimately to the banking powers who essentially dictate out ability to purchase. Tie this in with the oil driven economy, whose direct consequences are overpriced transportation costs, resulting in higher prices for all goods (bricks and mortar, even), this higher housing prices, and banks who dictate who can or can't take out credit to own said houses, and you have a society recklessly dependent upon banks and their product; currency and credit-bondage.

This system is especially controlling in a country where education comes at a price to the person. If a family cannot get enough money to educate and thus learn the skills to succeed within this paradigm, they are essentially deprived of human rights as a product of not having the tools available to survive when money is pretty much the only means to do so.

 

[pastac]

This is how threads should be conducted in intelligent awesome fashion I am thriving off of the post
pastac

 

[breno785au]

I'm starting to question these stats that come out on the news..if there was a group that knew every slave in the world, how did they know they were a slave in the first place? If you find out someone was in some slavery, say one individual, wouldn't you do everything within the law to free them?
I just wonder how they get these figures for such things that are supposed to be done under the cover and in secret. I'm not just picking this stat but any stat really. I just saw a stat on the news as to how many illegal immigrants there are in America, how do they know how illegal immigrants there are?

 

[Human]

I'm starting to question these stats that come out on the news..if there was a group that knew every slave in the world, how did they know they were a slave in the first place? If you find out someone was in some slavery, say one individual, wouldn't you do everything within the law to free them?
I just wonder how they get these figures for such things that are supposed to be done under the cover and in secret. I'm not just picking this stat but any stat really. I just saw a stat on the news as to how many illegal immigrants there are in America, how do they know how illegal immigrants there are?

Skepticism's okay, if it's informed. There are prostitutes, trafficked women, young men conscripted to militia. You know it's true. Seems you're trying to find a way to minimize it.

 

[ChristIsGod]

I just found this youtube and thought of this thread...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otE3G-2Xvsg

 

[OnThisRock]

Slavery can be spiritual too. Sometimes, when the Lord tells us to go into other nations, and visit those in prisons, most of the time it is the spiritual prisons that he wants us to visit. There are oppressive conditions, where just living there I feel as if I am in prison. When I was living in a shelter, there were rules like slaves (chores, assignments required etc), but generally everyone was really free. I felt less free living in democracy. There was a spiritual oppression that felt like slavery, even though the government said I was free. Slavery can also mean enslaved to a horrible job because you have to feed your children. I have thought alot about freedom and slavery of what that means. I felt more enslaved when I was living the "American Dream", than now. Now I have two suitcases to my name. THat's real freedom!