Oh, Holy Pope! (New Holy Pope)

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7seven7

Guest
#21
#21
RickShafer said:
Yes.
You are correct. The meaning is spiritual.
But are priests apostles? When Paul was speaking of his nurturing of the churches he(through the Holy Spirit) founded; was he not speaking of his apostleship? And he never calls himself their father, he just points out they were begotten into the faith by God using him to spread the good news to them. The early churches were beset by false teachers spying out their liberty in Christ, trying to return them to a religious(Jewish in this case), bondage.
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St. Paul also applies the term "father" to himself, while on more than one occasion he writes to his own as if they were his children- 1Cor. 4:14-15, 2Cor. 12:14, Phil. 2:22, 1 Thes. 2:11, 1Tim. 1:2, Tit. 1:4, Phile. 1:10.

You didn't read the whole thing, brother. Please, if you're going to take that verse literally, then you must apply it to every aspect in this world, including your own biological father. It doesn't make sense. St. Paul also refers to others as fathers too:

Acts 22:1New King James Version (NKJV)

22 “Brethren and fathers, hear my defense before you now.”

Are you taking this verse literally, or not?
 
7

7seven7

Guest
#22
#22
Maynard said:
Peace be with you, Rick. I hope that you have a pleasant Easter. I pray that Mary the mother of our Lord leads you to her beloved son and savior Jesus Christ. God bless.

In Christ,
Maynard

Hail Mary, full of grace,
the Lord is with thee.
Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb Jesus.
Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death.
Amen

Lord Jesus, have mercy on Rick, and all of us sinners.
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Amen!!!!!!
 
RickShafer

RickShafer

Banned
#23
Sep 8, 2012
4,367
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#23
7seven7 said:
St. Paul also applies the term "father" to himself, while on more than one occasion he writes to his own as if they were his children- 1Cor. 4:14-15, 2Cor. 12:14, Phil. 2:22, 1 Thes. 2:11, 1Tim. 1:2, Tit. 1:4, Phile. 1:10.

You didn't read the whole thing, brother. Please, if you're going to take that verse literally, then you must apply it to every aspect in this world, including your own biological father. It doesn't make sense. St. Paul also refers to others as fathers too:

Acts 22:1New King James Version (NKJV)

22 “Brethren and fathers, hear my defense before you now.”

Are you taking this verse literally, or not?
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No, I did read the whole thing.
Jesus is teaching to call no man your spiritual father. For there is one God in heaven, and He is Spirit, and He is Truth.
And those who will worship Him can only do so in Spirit, and in Truth. (John4:23 pp.)
 
7

7seven7

Guest
#25
#25
RickShafer said:
Keep confessing to a person you call "father", when Jesus plainly told you to call no man upon the earth 'father' - Math. 23:9 (for there is One Father in heaven).
What? - "Confess your sins one to another?" YES.
Not to one greater,-(who you bow to), not to a human you call "father".
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hahahahahaha who do we bow to? A priest, the Pope, a deacon, a nun, a monk......... all leaders among equals, my friend. And most of them very good at it.
But anyway, about confession, no person claiming to be Christian doubts that Christ had the power to forgive sins. The following incident in the Gospels testifies to this power:
[h=3]Matthew 9:2-7[/h]New King James Version (NKJV)

[SUP]2 [/SUP]Then behold, they brought to Him a paralytic lying on a bed. When Jesus saw their faith, He said to the paralytic, “Son, be of good cheer; your sins are forgiven you.”
[SUP]3 [/SUP]And at once some of the scribes said within themselves, “This Man blasphemes!”
[SUP]4 [/SUP]But Jesus, knowing their thoughts, said, “Why do you think evil in your hearts? [SUP]5 [/SUP]For which is easier, to say, ‘Your sins are forgiven you,’ or to say, ‘Arise and walk’? [SUP]6 [/SUP]But that you may know that the Son of Man has power on earth to forgive sins”—then He said to the paralytic,“Arise, take up your bed, and go to your house.” [SUP]7 [/SUP]And he arose and departed to his house.

Then we see recorded in the Acts of the Apostles the Church forgiving sins through the administration of Baptism to converts:

[h=3]Acts 2:38[/h]New King James Version (NKJV)

[SUP]38 [/SUP]Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

[h=3]Acts 22:16[/h]New King James Version (NKJV)

[SUP]16 [/SUP]And now why are you waiting? Arise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord.’

And then, after his ressurection, our Lord appeared to the Apostles in the Upper Room and breathed on them saying:

[h=3]John 20:21-23[/h]New King James Version (NKJV)

“Peace to you! As the Father has sent Me, I also send you.”[SUP]22 [/SUP]And when He had said this, He breathed on them, and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. [SUP]23 [/SUP]If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.”

Pope John Paul II has commented on St. John 20:23 as follows:

" Now this power to "forgive sins" Jesus confers through the Holy Spirit upon ordinary men, themselves subject to the snare of sin, namely the Apostles... This is one of the most awe-inspiring innovations of the Gospel! He confers this power on the Apostles also as something which they can transmit- as the Church has understood it from the beginning- to their successors, charged by the same Apostles with the mission and responsibility of continuing their work as proclaimers of the Gospel and ministers of Christ's redemptive work."

The power given to the Apostles in St. John 20:23 is reinforced by our Lord's following promise:

[h=3]Matthew 18:18[/h]New King James Version (NKJV)

[SUP]18 [/SUP]“Assuredly, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven"

It is interesting to note that the only other time God breathed on man was when he first created Adam and "breathed into his nostrils the breath of life" (Gen. 2:7). The first breathing was to empower man with life; the second breathing was to empower man to restore life.

Can you see where it all comes together, Rick?













 
7

7seven7

Guest
#26
#26
RickShafer said:
No, I did read the whole thing.
Jesus is teaching to call no man your spiritual father. For there is one God in heaven, and He is Spirit, and He is Truth.
And those who will worship Him can only do so in Spirit, and in Truth. (John4:23 pp.)
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No, Rick, He is telling us to call no man our Father in His place. And that is not what we do. You completely misunderstand us. Really, you do. We never put ANY man as high as God. You guys keep thinking we do. lol

So you don't take that verse literally then?
 
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7seven7

Guest
#27
#27
RickShafer said:
No, I did read the whole thing.
Jesus is teaching to call no man your spiritual father. For there is one God in heaven, and He is Spirit, and He is Truth.
And those who will worship Him can only do so in Spirit, and in Truth. (John4:23 pp.)
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Also Rick, the other problem with you saying that "He is teaching to call no man your spiritual father. For there is one God in Heaven, and He is Spirit, and He is Truth," then you also must not receive baptism from any man on earth either, because who has been given authority (by the standards of what you say) to give us the Holy Spirit? He would then be, in every way, a "spiritual father". Would he not?
 
RickShafer

RickShafer

Banned
#28
Sep 8, 2012
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0
#28
7seven7 said:
Also Rick, the other problem with you saying that "He is teaching to call no man your spiritual father. For there is one God in Heaven, and He is Spirit, and He is Truth," then you also must not receive baptism from any man on earth either, because who has been given authority (by the standards of what you say) to give us the Holy Spirit? He would then be, in every way, a "spiritual father". Would he not?
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If the Holy Spirit was given through water baptism I would agree wholeheartedly with you 777.
But I don't think it is, do you?
 
7

7seven7

Guest
#29
#29
RickShafer said:
If the Holy Spirit was given through water baptism I would agree wholeheartedly with you 777.
But I don't think it is, do you?
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Ok, so if it is given by the method you believe, who gave your "preacher" or "pastor" or whatever you like to call them, permission to baptize you in the name of the Holy Spirit? And how is that any different to our priests baptizing us and hearing our confession, which you claim is so unbiblical (when actually it is very biblical as I have shown above). Scripture never says that a pastor has authority give you the Holy Spirit. What authority has your Pastor or preacher got to pass on anything to you that our priests don't have?
 
RickShafer

RickShafer

Banned
#30
Sep 8, 2012
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#30
No man confers the Holy Ghost.
It just isn't a happening thing 777.
God only.
 
J

jazzlady

Guest
#32
#32
Don't we all have the ability to forgive the sins of those who sin against us? Didn't Jesus tell us to "forgive one another"?
 
H

hamel

Guest
#35
#35
And I tell yu; yu are peter and apon that ROck I,ll will build my church.So who's the ROCK ?The rock is the faith in JESUS like: who is the man that build his house on sand, but if you build it on the ROCK (faith in JESUS) it will stand. The ROCK he was talking about was the faith Peter had in Jesus.Remember that the sentence before Peter said You're the son of God and that's why the LORD said to him that apon that ROCK (his testemony of faith)Jesus will buidl his church.Our testemony in the faith in JESUS is what build the CHURCH of JESUS through all times.The rock is not the testemony of the catholic religion,because they don't stand on the rock,they stand on everything that is contrary to GOD.BUT we that stand on JESUS are building the REAL CHURCH of JESUS.
 
RickShafer

RickShafer

Banned
#36
Sep 8, 2012
4,367
58
0
#36
Which one?
I was dunked by a preacher. But that is just an outward sign of water baptism.
I received the Holy Spirit, that IS the important baptism.
But these didn't happen at the same time.
The thief on the cross was baptized.(by the Holy Spirit)
 
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7seven7

Guest
#37
#37
hamel said:
And I tell yu; yu are peter and apon that ROck I,ll will build my church.So who's the ROCK ?The rock is the faith in JESUS like: who is the man that build his house on sand, but if you build it on the ROCK (faith in JESUS) it will stand. The ROCK he was talking about was the faith Peter had in Jesus.Remember that the sentence before Peter said You're the son of God and that's why the LORD said to him that apon that ROCK (his testemony of faith)Jesus will buidl his church.Our testemony in the faith in JESUS is what build the CHURCH of JESUS through all times.The rock is not the testemony of the catholic religion,because they don't stand on the rock,they stand on everything that is contrary to GOD.BUT we that stand on JESUS are building the REAL CHURCH of JESUS.
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lol You mean one of the thousands of churches that started within the last 500 years? Do you believe that the Bible is your only rule of Faith? Which translation of the Bible do you follow? And why that particular version? If the Bible is the only rule of faith, brother, then you want to make sure that you have the ABSOLUTE correct translation, because there are probably hundreds out there. You NEED the right one to make sure you follow the correct teachings. So, Do you believe that the Bible is your only rule of Faith? Which translation of the Bible do you follow? And why that particular version?
 
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7seven7

Guest
#38
#38
RickShafer said:
Which one?
I was dunked by a preacher. But that is just an outward sign of water baptism.
I received the Holy Spirit, that IS the important baptism.
But these didn't happen at the same time.
The thief on the cross was baptized.(by the Holy Spirit)
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Ok so the preacher dunked you. What gave him authority to do that? and where does it state this in the bible?
Oh yeh, and also, that preacher acts as a spiritual father to you doesn't he? him teaching you about the Word of God and all, while being led by the Holy Spirit, AND baptizing you? Because he did baptize you with water.
Brother, I'm not trying to be spiteful. I'm just trying to prove a point. Please, if I'm offending you, then tell me.
 
RickShafer

RickShafer

Banned
#39
Sep 8, 2012
4,367
58
0
#39
You are most kind 777.
You make good points.
Yes, it is true that the shepherd does lead.
But there is only one great shepherd.
Even Jesus didn't let His disciples call Him "Father".
He was Lord of all, but he made a point to tell them there is only one Father(Spirit) in heaven.
A man-'pastor',(for lack of a better term), did baptize me when I was young. But only God Himself baptized me with the Holy Spirit.
 
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7seven7

Guest
#40
#40
I need sleep, brother. I'll continue this conversation tomorrow. Happy Easter and God bless you on this beautiful day of the Lord's Ressurection!
 
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