POLL: Edward Snowden - Hero or Traitor??

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Is Edward Snowden a Hero or a Traitor??

  • Hero

    Votes: 8 47.1%
  • Traitor

    Votes: 3 17.6%
  • Not sure

    Votes: 4 23.5%
  • Other (please explain)

    Votes: 2 11.8%

  • Total voters
    17
Aug 2, 2009
24,584
4,271
113
#1
For those who don't know, Edward Snowden is a former CIA contractor (a computer analyst) who blew the whistle on the NSA's (Nat'l Security Administration) public phone hacking program that is keeping track of millions of private american citizens' phone calls (the program was started during Bush's term, but was actually expanded under Obama).

After he did this he fled to Hong Kong and told the chinese govt that the NSA was also hacking phones in China. The chinese govt is not happy about this and protected Snowden from extradition to the US, and also let him leave for Russia (where he supposedly is right now). Snowden has already been charged with treason by the US government.

Here is more info:
Man behind NSA leaks says he did it to safeguard privacy, liberty - CNN.com

Do you think he is a hero or a traitor?
 
1

1still_waters

Guest
#2
Hero.
See something. Say something.
He did.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#3
For those who don't know, Edward Snowden is a former CIA contractor (a computer analyst) who blew the whistle on the NSA's (Nat'l Security Administration) public phone hacking program that is keeping track of millions of private american citizens' phone calls (the program was started during Bush's term, but was actually expanded under Obama).

After he did this he fled to Hong Kong and told the chinese govt that the NSA was also hacking phones in China. The chinese govt is not happy about this and protected Snowden from extradition to the US, and also let him leave for Russia (where he supposedly is right now). Snowden has already been charged with treason by the US government.

Here is more info:
Man behind NSA leaks says he did it to safeguard privacy, liberty - CNN.com

Do you think he is a hero or a traitor?
too soon say if he's a hero.
will answer later.
something's amiss.
 
A

AgeofKnowledge

Guest
#4
I'm going to go out on a limb here and call him a hero even though he did take several notebooks worth of data he wasn't supposed to which legally makes him a traitor too at the same time.

But it was a genuine act of conscience that motivated him to act on behalf of the best interests of all Americans aligning himself with the founding father's reasoning as established in the documents this country was founded on.

He acted selflessly, intelligently, and bravely on behalf of all Americans. So legally a traitor he may be, in his heart he's the truest kind of patriot acting on behalf of THE PEOPLE and I'm going to call him a hero for that.

I respect if anyone disagrees with me on this, however.
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
8,086
190
63
#5
other.

The exposure and information coming forward seems more of a provocative exercise.

i believe a lot of this stuff is set up to bring about something.

There is great powers to be had in the name of 'national security'.

how much freedom and privacy do people lose because of 'terrorists'?

Anyhow there are people out there with 'war on their mind'....

may it be that they come to see they are not awake and still being led to slaughter.
 
G

Graybeard

Guest
#6
too soon say if he's a hero.
will answer later.
something's amiss.
[video=youtube;hdmIhCkp3p4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=hdmIhCkp3p4[/video]
:D:D:p
 
Aug 15, 2009
9,745
179
0
#7
He cannot be a thief, if he only copied the records.
He cannot be a traitor, because China isn't our enemy. I thought our only enemies were Al qaeda, the Taliban, & N. Korea.
He is a whistleblower in every sense of the word.
He is a hero, because he's spilling the beans on our true enemies.
;)
 

Oncefallen

Idiot in Chief
Staff member
Jan 15, 2011
6,032
3,285
113
#8
The only difference between a patriot and a traitor is perception. 237 years ago 55 men placed their signatures on a document that instantly made them traitors to the British crown yet to Americans they are patriots and heroes. Snowden is no different. Those who are loyal to the travesty that America has become will perceive him as a traitor yet those who are loyal to what America was meant to be and hold our liberties dear will perceive him as a hero.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,709
3,650
113
#9
Hmm, China, Russia, Equador, where is next? Cuba? No. Korea? sounds like a champ for 'freedom'.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#10
For those who don't know, Edward Snowden is a former CIA contractor (a computer analyst) who blew the whistle on the NSA's (Nat'l Security Administration) public phone hacking program that is keeping track of millions of private american citizens' phone calls (the program was started during Bush's term, but was actually expanded under Obama).

After he did this he fled to Hong Kong and told the chinese govt that the NSA was also hacking phones in China. The chinese govt is not happy about this and protected Snowden from extradition to the US, and also let him leave for Russia (where he supposedly is right now). Snowden has already been charged with treason by the US government.

Here is more info:
Man behind NSA leaks says he did it to safeguard privacy, liberty - CNN.com

Do you think he is a hero or a traitor?
unless he or his sponsor wikileaks:rolleyes: produces something we didn't already know, he could just be a hang-out.
might be the real thing.
Bradley Manning is the real thing.

in any case.....Snowden might have provided the right time and reason for Obama to get busier with this:


Monday, June 24, 2013

‘Insider Threat’ program forces federal employees to spy on co-workers

from PressTV.ir: Government documents have revealed that the Obama administration is implementing a program that requires millions of federal employees to spy on their co-workers as part of a sweeping crackdown on security leaks across the U.S. government.

The program titled “Insider Threat” which has gone almost entirely unnoticed in the U.S. media also presses managers to punish employees who fail to report their suspicions, McClatchy reported Friday after obtaining the documents.

The program spans all federal agencies and mandates employees and their superiors to identify and report behaviors associated with someone who might leak sensitive government information.

Those who fail to expose “high-risk persons” face penalties that include criminal charges, according to the report.

The program was launched in October 2011 after Army Private Bradley Manning blew the whistle on U.S. war crimes, in the largest intelligence leak in U.S. history.

According to a Pentagon strategy dated June 1, 2012 and written for the Insider Threat Program, leaking sensitive documents is “tantamount to aiding the enemies of the United States.”

The government documents reviewed by McClatchy reveal that some federal agencies are using the unprecedented initiative to crack down on unauthorized disclosures of any information, not just classified documents.

As McClatchy reports, the Obama administration is expected to speed up the implementation of the program in the wake of a series of recent leaks by former National Security Agency contractor Edward Snowden who exposed the agency’s top-secret surveillance programs. .....

☀ Cyber ♆ Space ☄ War ☠
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#11
The program titled “Insider Threat” which has gone almost entirely unnoticed in the U.S. media also presses managers to punish employees who fail to report their suspicions, McClatchy reported Friday after obtaining the documents.

The program spans all federal agencies and mandates employees and their superiors to identify and report behaviors associated with someone who might leak sensitive government information.

Those who fail to expose “high-risk persons” face penalties that include criminal charges, according to the report.
sounds like:

The Ministry for State Security (German: Ministerium für Staatssicherheit, MfS), commonly known as the Stasi (IPA: [ˈʃtɑːziː]) (abbreviation German: Staatssicherheit, literally State Security), was the official state security service of the German Democratic Republic or GDR, colloquially known as East Germany. It has been described as one of the most effective and repressive intelligence and secret police agencies in the world.[2][3][4][5][6][7] The Stasi was headquartered in East Berlin, with an extensive complex in Berlin-Lichtenberg and several smaller facilities throughout the city. The Stasi motto was "Schild und Schwert der Partei" (Shield and Sword of the Party), that is the ruling Socialist Unity Party of Germany (SED). Several Stasi officials were prosecuted for their crimes after 1990.

Stasi informants, by 1995, 174,000 had been identified, which approximated 2.5% of East Germany's population between the ages of 18 and 60.[12] 10,000 IMs were under 18 years of age.[12]

While these calculations were from official records, according to the federal commissioner in charge of the Stasi archives in Berlin, because many such records were destroyed, there were likely closer to 500,000 Stasi informers.[12] A former Stasi colonel who served in the counterintelligence directorate estimated that the figure could be as high as 2 million if occasional informants were included.[12]

Full-time officers were posted to all major industrial plants (the extensiveness of any surveillance largely depended on how valuable a product was to the economy)[13] and one tenant in every apartment building was designated as a watchdog reporting to an area representative of the Volkspolizei (Vopo).[17] Spies reported every relative or friend who stayed the night at another's apartment.[17] Tiny holes were drilled in apartment and hotel room walls through which Stasi agents filmed citizens with special video cameras.[17] Schools, universities, and hospitals were extensively infiltrated.[17]

Stasi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

etc etc
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#12
Monday, June 24, 2013

‘Insider Threat’ program forces federal employees to spy on co-workers

from PressTV.ir: Government documents have revealed that the Obama administration is implementing a program that requires millions of federal employees to spy on their co-workers as part of a sweeping crackdown on security leaks across the U.S. government.
Questions and answers from the government on the 'insider threat program'

To DOD: Questions from McClatch
y -

We are reporting out a story on the Insider Threat Program that has been under implementation since 2011, and have the following questions. We'd appreciate a response by the late Thursday afternoon.

1. Some current and former U.S. officials are concerned about the increased reliance on employees to monitor their co-workers' behaviors as a means of detecting insider threats. What precautions are being taken to ensure that this doesn't result in false or unsubstantiated reports?

2. Could you provide a list of the behavioral "indicators" that employees are being trained to recognize in detecting and identifying insider threats? Are these indicators similar to those listed in DoD Directive 5240.06, Enclosure 4?

3. CI professionals undergo years of training and experience in detecting and identifying insider threats. Is it realistic to expect DoD employees to acquire such skills through a routine training course?

4. The DoD Strategic Plan produced by the Unauthorized Disclosures Working Group last June says that, unauthorized disclosures of classified information to the public "harms us as much as spies and is tantamount to aiding the enemies of the United States." How does that view accommodate disclosures like the Pentagon Papers?

5. Since the implementation of this program, how many insider threat cases have been opened and how many have been successfully dealt with either administratively or through referrals to DoJ?

Response from DOD:

Read more here: Questions and answers from the government on the 'insider threat program' | McClatchy
 
Mar 21, 2011
1,515
16
0
#13
Better Question for us, non-Americans...

USA, Ally or traitor?

Oh...but I'm sure you guys would have no problem with Australia spying on all your emails etc??? Noooo, none at all.... LOL
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#14
Like Julian Assange, Edward Snowden is a media-trumpeted whistleblower hero. Like Assange, Snowden has striking, TV-star good looks. Like Assange, Snowden is involved in a dramatic TV-style chase across countries and continents.


It's almost like Assange and Snowden are starring in their own reality-TV shows.

With all the hoopla about Snowden (and before him, Assange), it's easy to forget all of the other whistleblowers who have revealed even more explosive information.

Consider two other NSA whistleblowers: Russ Tice and James Bamford.

Russ Tice is a former NSA intelligence analyst who has also worked for the US Air Force, the Office of Naval Intelligence, and the Defense Intelligence Agency. He was a real US intelligence insider, many pay grades above rookie contractor Edward Snowden.

In 2005, Tice blew the whistle on the NSA's illegal spying on Americans. Tice and other NSA sources revealed that the NSA's computerized spy program ECHELON was reading and filtering over 100,000 emails and phone calls per second. That is an even worse abuse of Americans' Constitutional rights than the programs that Snowden has revealed, which store copies of emails and phone calls but (allegedly) do not read them except when legally authorized to do so.

Worse yet, Tice's revelations raise even more troubling issues. Tice and his NSA whistleblower colleagues revealed that the NSA's massive, illegal spy-on-Americans program began in February, 2001 - seven months BEFORE the 9/11 attacks! As Andrew Harris reported for Bloomberg in July, 2006:

“The US National Security Agency asked AT&T Inc. to help it set up a domestic call monitoring site seven months before the Sept. 11, 2001 attacks, lawyers claimed June 23 in court papers filed in New York federal court... 'The Bush Administration asserted this became necessary after 9/11,' plaintiff's lawyer Carl Mayer said in a telephone interview. 'This undermines that assertion.'''

The illegal NSA spy-on-Americans program apparently “became necessary” several months before 9/11, not after 9/11. Why?

In an interview entitled “NSA Whistleblower Russ Tice Alleges NSA Wiretapped Barack Obama as Senate Candidate” Russ Tice recently explained to FBI whistleblower Sibel Edmonds the real purpose of the NSA's illegal spying on Americans: To collect blackmail material and other information that can be used to control influential citizens.

In short: The whole purpose of the NSA spy program was to enable 9/11, protect the perpetrators, and maintain the 9/11-triggered covert dictatorship.

Before 9/11, the neoconservatives of the Bush-Cheney Administration needed to ensure that no influential Americans would dare to stand up against the coming coup d'état. So they directed the NSA to begin wiretapping the American people.

PressTV - Snowden’s revelations just tip of NSA spy scandal iceberg
 

Agricola

Senior Member
Dec 10, 2012
2,638
88
48
#15
So all this is an elaborate set up to justify tighter controls and monitoring of government employees and those of its various contractors and agencies.

Obama really paid Snowdon to be fall guy, he has millions in a secret bank account and is going to disapear for a while then re-emerge with new identity and live rest of his life with his feet up on some tropical beach.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#16
So all this is an elaborate set up to justify tighter controls and monitoring of government employees and those of its various contractors and agencies.

Obama really paid Snowdon to be fall guy, he has millions in a secret bank account and is going to disapear for a while then re-emerge with new identity and live rest of his life with his feet up on some tropical beach.
it's possible.
but Obama has little to do with any of that.
he's just a puppet-thingee. maybe from another planet. dunno.

they've undoubtebly got tapes of him shape-shifting and having a special sort of 'escort' delivered to the West Wing.

wink wink - blackmail...NSA's specialty.

 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#17
Beyond Snowden: US General Cartwright has been indicted for espionage

JULY 2, 2013 BY 21WIRE

21st Century Wire says…

While the world focuses on Washington’s pursuit of NSA whistleblower Ed Snowden, another much more high ranking member of the US power structure has been indicted for espionage this week…

US General James Cartwright was regarded by Washington insiders as ‘Obama’s General’, and now he’s facing prosecution for blowing the whistle on ‘Operation Olympic Games’ which planted the Stuxnet and Flame viruses in Iranian nuclear facilities in order derail Iran’s civilian nuclear program. At closer examination, it appears that Cartwright’s revelations didn’t so much harm US interests per say, but they hindered Israeli ambitions towards a war with Iran.

But why espionage? What is the line between “whistleblowing” and “espionage” in America today?

Journalist Thierry Meyssan give us a historical perspective and tells is what it really means…

Beyond Snowden: US General Cartwright has been indicted for espionage
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#18
Elder Snowden ‘engineers’ deal with attorney Bruce Fein for his son’s return to US

JULY 1, 2013 BY SHAWN HELTON


21st Century Wire says…

More revelations emerge surrounding the Snowden Saga, as intelligence operative Edward Snowden is still in transit within Russia. Edward Snowden’s father, Lonnie Snowden, has subsequently retained attorney Bruce Fein from The Lichfield Group to aid in Ed’s return to U.S. soil. An interesting move, but what does this mean?

The Lichfield Group is a law firm that holds many global partnerships in addition to its political and media consulting. On its own website it alludes to directing or managing global concerns, including assisting foreign governments to influence the United States Congress:

“The Lichfield Group features unrivalled government, media, and business experience. Exemplary is the Group’s high level connections with the Department of Justice, the Department of State, and the Central Intelligence Agency. The Group’s unsurpassed combination of legal, business, media, political, and government savvy enables it to handle crisis management, tactical, or strategic positioning with unexcelled deftness.”

“Whether a client is a giant corporation handcuffed by ill-conceived United States government policies or a foreign government anxious to influence the decisions of Congress, the President, agencies, the judiciary, or State governments, The Lichfield Group is armed with the skills and contacts indispensable for success.“


Fein is a scholar for the American Enterprise Institute, which is closely connected to AIPAC, a main lobby for Israeli interests. Fein’s business associations largely consist of foreign governments and large oil conglomerates, all of which seem to be strange bed fellows for a “constitutional lawyer” of the United States. ....


Elder Snowden ‘engineers’ deal with attorney Bruce Fein for his son’s return to US
 
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