Statistics on the Dangers of Gun Use foor Self-Defense

[Angela53510]

Found this article today, which really confirms the logical result of too many guns in the hands of people who don't know how to use them. (I don't know about people who are trained and qualified, like ex-military, police, and even sportsmen as the article didn't deal with that). It sure doesn't bode well for the average joe owning a gun for defense. And the lies that are out there saying that owning a gun can help you defend yourself, when in fact, it is the exact opposite!

I think this issue is especially pertinent right now, with what seems like half the people in America who have not owned guns previously going out to buy them. Very scary, all those guns in the hands of people without any training, and who knows what kind of mental stability they have. I would think the more paranoid a person is, the more likely they would go out and buy a gun at this time. And paranoia with a gun it its hand is not a pretty thing!


Statistics on the Dangers of Gun Use for Self-Defense.

"Guns kept in the home are more likely to be involved in a fatal or nonfatal unintentional shooting, criminal assault or suicide attempt than to be used to injure or kill in self-defense.1 That is, a gun is more likely to be used to kill or injure an innocent person in the home than a threatening intruder.Though guns may be successfully used in self-defense even when they are not fired, the evidence shows that their presence in the home makes a person more vulnerable, not less. Instead of keeping owners safer from harm, objective studies confirm that firearms in the home place owners and their families at greater risk. Research published in the New England Journal of Medicine found that living in a home where guns are kept increased an individual’s risk of death by homicide by between 40 and 170%.2 Another study published in the American Journal of Epidemiology similarly found that “persons with guns in the home were at greater risk of dying from a homicide in the home than those without guns in the home.” This study determined that the presence of guns in the home increased an individual’s risk of death by homicide by 90%.3"



Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence – Gun Law Information Experts

 

[Dude653]

as I mentioned on another post,a novice with a firearm is potentially just as dangerous as a criminal

 

[Mitspa]

This is just liberal nonsense...the facts are that crime goes down and a society is far safer when folks have legal guns... Guess what? ...car accidents go way up when people own cars....

 

[NotmebutHim]

I'm going to dissent on this one. I realize that the cited article focuses on self-defense, but........

LCPGV is another organization pushing for even more gun control laws.

Criminals who use guns don't obey the law anyway, so it's just an exercise in futility.

 

[Willie-T]

How many people are "novices?" Most men I know were Military, and the women I know who own guns, know them, inside and out.

 

[Dude653]

I'm all for people being able to arm themselves but it never hurts to use a little caution.I would recommend extensive training with the weapon until using it becomes as fluid and easy as using any everyday object

 

[WarriorForChrist]

I do agree that someone should have training on any type of weapon they are going to use or carry. When I was in Colorado, even though I was in the military, I had to take a week long course to carry a concealed weapon. The sate I live in now only requires a written test for the lower concealed carry and for all 50 states you actually have to qualify with your weapon.

 

[Sinnerman]

Suicide is homicide. There were 41,000 suicides last year, the highest number in 25 years. 21,000 of those suicides were by a firearm.

This is how people can abuse statistics in hopes of distorting the truth. Let's say 2000 criminals were shot and killed justifiably last year (still a homicide, statistically). I can then use statistics to show that despite those 2000 times people lawfully defended themselves from home invasions, there were 21,000 disturbed people who took their own lives with a firearm. Thus, I can tell you that you are 90% more likely to die from having a firearm in your home. Essentially, the statistic is meaningless.

Two days ago, my kitchen door opened up at exactly the time my wife gets home from work. I shouted at the dogs; mommy's home...mommy's home. They usually run to meet her. Only it was not my wife. It was a stranger, who first opened a gate in our courtyard, then walked to the rear kitchen entrance door and opened it and walked inside.

I have numerous weapons and security devices. I am trained to use them. I chose not to hit the panic alarm at first. Instead, I grabbed a less than lethal weapon and moved quickly from the living room to the kitchen, assessing the situation. I had a 120,000 volt stun gun in my hand. It looks identical to a police baton. I had it raised over my head as I moved toward the man. I saw a second person and considered retreating and grabbing my 9mm pistol. I saw the two were a couple and that both were frightened. As she retreated, the female stated they were looking for a lock box and that they were trying to view the rental property. I saw that neither was carrying any weapons in their hands as I stood next to the door and within reach of the panic alarm. I ordered them to step away and explain themselves. I told them as soon as they went through that first gate, they were trespassing and putting themselves at risk. They left the gate open and I had to make sure the two dogs did not escape.

It turned out to be an honest mistake, I think. They showed me an ad for a house renting down the street. Our address is 2413. They wanted 2314. They had proof on their cell phones. I don't think they were casing our property. I'm glad we have security cameras, an alarm system, dogs, stun guns, pepper spray, a pistol, and a shotgun. It seems I'll need to make sure the doors are also locked at all times. (I had just unlocked the kitchen door while waiting for my wife to come home. I told her I'm locking her out from now on and she can use her door key or knock or ring the bell.

 

[FreeNChrist]

Guns are particularly dangerous for those we are defending ourselves against.....

 

[Dude653]

I personally know a few people to do not need a firearm. imagine someone who's been up on some methamphetamine for about a week carrying a gun

 

[Angela53510]

Suicide is homicide. There were 41,000 suicides last year, the highest number in 25 years. 21,000 of those suicides were by a firearm.

This is how people can abuse statistics in hopes of distorting the truth. Let's say 2000 criminals were shot and killed justifiably last year (still a homicide, statistically). I can then use statistics to show that despite those 2000 times people lawfully defended themselves from home invasions, there were 21,000 disturbed people who took their own lives with a firearm. Thus, I can tell you that you are 90% more likely to die from having a firearm in your home. Essentially, the statistic is meaningless.

Two days ago, my kitchen door opened up at exactly the time my wife gets home from work. I shouted at the dogs; mommy's home...mommy's home. They usually run to meet her. Only it was not my wife. It was a stranger, who first opened a gate in our courtyard, then walked to the rear kitchen entrance door and opened it and walked inside.

I have numerous weapons and security devices. I am trained to use them. I chose not to hit the panic alarm at first. Instead, I grabbed a less than lethal weapon and moved quickly from the living room to the kitchen, assessing the situation. I had a 120,000 volt stun gun in my hand. It looks identical to a police baton. I had it raised over my head as I moved toward the man. I saw a second person and considered retreating and grabbing my 9mm pistol. I saw the two were a couple and that both were frightened. As she retreated, the female stated they were looking for a lock box and that they were trying to view the rental property. I saw that neither was carrying any weapons in their hands as I stood next to the door and within reach of the panic alarm. I ordered them to step away and explain themselves. I told them as soon as they went through that first gate, they were trespassing and putting themselves at risk. They left the gate open and I had to make sure the two dogs did not escape.

It turned out to be an honest mistake, I think. They showed me an ad for a house renting down the street. Our address is 2413. They wanted 2314. They had proof on their cell phones. I don't think they were casing our property. I'm glad we have security cameras, an alarm system, dogs, stun guns, pepper spray, a pistol, and a shotgun. It seems I'll need to make sure the doors are also locked at all times. (I had just unlocked the kitchen door while waiting for my wife to come home. I told her I'm locking her out from now on and she can use her door key or knock or ring the bell.

If you had read the article, you would have seen that suicides were included in that statistic. There were no lies, or trying to manipulate the facts. The fact is, the suicide rate goes up in relationship to the availability of guns. One would also think that eliminating 30,000 deaths from suicide in the US yearly should be cause to think seriously about gun availability. And self defense continues to be a red herring concerning how many people actually used their guns effectively in self defense.

"A study by the Harvard School of Public Health of all 50 U.S. states reveals a powerful link between rates of firearm ownership and suicides. Based on a survey of American households conducted in 2002, HSPH Assistant Professor of Health Policy and ManagementMatthew Miller, Research Associate Deborah Azrael, and colleagues at the School’s Injury Control Research Center (ICRC), found that in states where guns were prevalent—as in Wyoming, where 63 percent of households reported owning guns—rates of suicide were higher.

The inverse was also true: where gun ownership was less common, suicide rates were also lower.The lesson? Many lives would likely be saved if people disposed of their firearms, kept them locked away, or stored them outside the home. Says HSPH Professor of Health Policy David Hemenway, the ICRC’s director: “Studies show that most attempters act on impulse, in moments of panic or despair. Once the acute feelings ease, 90 percent do not go on to die by suicide.”

Guns and suicide: A fatal link | News | Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health

As for you Sinnerman, when I hear the fortress like mentality you live in, and how you could possibly have killed some innocent people with dsylexia, I am even more convinced that paranoia strikes deep. And more and more people are going to be killed us untrained and paranoid people buy guns without background checks or any kind of vetting. I do feel sorry for people who are living in this "fortress" mentality. This is just not even an issue in Canada. At all! I am safe with no guns, and because I am safe, I am free. Unlike so many Americans living in paranoid fear of just about everything these days.

 

[Angela53510]

This is just liberal nonsense...the facts are that crime goes down and a society is far safer when folks have legal guns... Guess what? ...car accidents go way up when people own cars....

The one thing you are certainly noted for Mitspa, besides your extreme conservativeness ( no problem with that!) , is your total inability to produce a bible verse in the BDF or a link to the actual statistics on your assertions.

A link, even a shoddy one, would at least show there is some evidence on your side. In fact, there are many studies in many countries that prove the exact opposite of what you are saying about gun control. As for your red herring about cars, at least people are required to pass tests proving they are competent to drive! And yes, the over all amount of car accident probably goes up if there are more cars, but I doubt very much the RELATIVE amount goes up. Or maybe you don't understand what that means??

Back to gun control, and more proof that crime goes up the more legal guns that are available.

"A new study, however, throws cold water on the idea that a well-armed populace deters criminals or prevents murders. Instead, higher ownership of guns in a state is linked to more firearm robberies, more firearm assaults and more homicide in general. [5 Milestones in Gun Control History]"


"We found NO support for the hypothesis that gun control leads to a drop or a reduction in violent crime," said study researcher Michael Monuteaux, an epidemiologist and professor of pediatrics at Harvard Medical School. "Instead, we found the opposite."


More guns, more gun crime
Numerous studies have found that gun ownership correlates with gun homicide, and homicide by gun is the most common type of homicide in the United States. In 2013, for example, there were 16,121 total homicides in the United States, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), and 11,208 of those were carried out with a firearm. (Gun suicides outpace gun homicides by far; in 2013, the CDC recorded 21,175 suicides by firearm, about half of all suicides that year. Contrary to popular belief, suicide is typically an impulsive act, psychiatrists say. Ninety percent of people who attempt suicide once will not go on to complete a suicide later, but a suicide attempt using a gun is far more lethal than other methods.)


Monuteaux and his colleagues wanted to test whether increased gun ownership had any effect on gun homicides, overall homicides and violent gun crimes. They chose firearm robbery and assault, because those crimes are likely to be reported and recorded in the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) Uniform Crime Report.
Along with that FBI data, the researchers gathered gun ownership rates from surveys in the CDC's Behavioral Risk Factor Surveillance System, an ongoing, nationally representative survey in which participants answered questions about gun ownership in 2001, 2002 and 2004. Using those years and controlling for a slate of demographic factors, from median household income, population density, to age, race and more, the researchers compared crime rates and gun ownership levels state by state.


They found no evidence that states with more households with guns led to timid criminals. In fact, firearm assaults were 6.8 times more common in states with the most guns versus states with the least. Firearm robbery increased with every increase in gun ownership except in the very highest quintile of gun-owning states (the difference in that cluster was not statistically significant). Firearm homicide was 2.8 times more common in states with the most guns versus states with the least. [Private Gun Ownership in the US (Infographic)]


The researchers were able to test whether criminals were simply trading out other weapons for guns, at least in the case of homicide. They weren't. Overall homicide rates were just over 2 times higher in the most gun-owning states, meaning that gun ownership correlated with higher rates of all homicides, not just homicide with a gun. The results will be published in a forthcoming issue of the American Journal of Preventive Medicine."

Woe! in fact, according to the stats, assaults with firearms were actually 6.8 times higher in states with the most guns!

I'm waiting for some stats, MItspa, Certainly the NRA must have something floating around for you to use against my links, articles and statistics!

 

[Sinnerman]

I think the NRA would agree with most of what you have written. More predators equals more guns equals more gun crimes, including homicide. Throw in gun control laws like in Chicago and what is the result? A lot of good people who you are speaking to, turn in their firearms, while the gang bangers and other predators buy or steal more guns, resulting in a state with the disproportionate percentage of guns in the hands of violent criminals.

I realize this doesn't register with most Canadians because gun violence is almost non-existent. But in the U.S. there are over 100 million guns in the hands of citizens, including almost all criminals and gang members. No law will get the bad guys to turn in their guns.

Again, these statistics are meaningless. Chicago, Detroit, Baltimore, Houston, Los Angeles, St. Louis, all have very high rates of homicide. Most all of it the ghettos and most all of it committed by young black males on other young black males. Statistically, the further away from young black males you get, the safer you get, according to FBI crime statistics. Whenever you have high populations of young criminals, you will have high concentrations of guns and gun violence. It's obvious and we don't need studies to prove it. But thank you for stating the obvious. What is the solution? Move to Canada? If Canada was in the tropics, I'd be living there. But instead, I'm living in a challenging neighborhood in a large U.S. city with a whole lot of violent crime. Two young black men exchanged gunfire out in front of a house seven blocks away a few months ago. One is now dead and the other will recover and spend his remaining years in prison.

If you want, you can also do a study on heroin and gun violence. The U.S. has a drug epidemic. The average age of our homeless has dropped by over ten years because of young people screwing up their lives with heroin and meth. They lose their jobs and possessions and apartment and live on the street. They still want drugs each day so they have to commit crimes. Some are willing to use a gun and murder others to get money. Our prisons are full of these types.


My mentality is to not be a victim. I don't want to be murdered and I don't want my wife to be murdered. I have to make choices. Move to a safer place, hope or pray we won't be victims, allow predators whatever they want from us, or defend ourselves and our property. I'm hoping the visible cctv cameras, an alarm system and warning signs will deter would-be criminals. Loud neighborhood dogs might also deter criminals. Our neighborhood watch program might reduce our risks. The non-lethal and lethal weapons are a last resort. Call it what you like. With more homicides in one U.S. city than in all of Canada, it's unlikely you fully grasp what us non drug addicted predators are up against.

 

[Stephen63]

"A study by the Harvard School of Public Health of all 50 U.S. states reveals a powerful link between rates of firearm ownership and suicides. Based on a survey of American households conducted in 2002, HSPH Assistant Professor of Health Policy and ManagementMatthew Miller, Research Associate Deborah Azrael, and colleagues at the School’s Injury Control Research Center (ICRC), found that in states where guns were prevalent—as in Wyoming, where 63 percent of households reported owning guns—rates of suicide were higher.

The inverse was also true: where gun ownership was less common, suicide rates were also lower.The lesson? Many lives would likely be saved if people disposed of their firearms, kept them locked away, or stored them outside the home. Says HSPH Professor of Health Policy David Hemenway, the ICRC’s director: “Studies show that most attempters act on impulse, in moments of panic or despair. Once the acute feelings ease, 90 percent do not go on to die by suicide.”

Guns and suicide: A fatal link | News | Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health

As for you Sinnerman, when I hear the fortress like mentality you live in, and how you could possibly have killed some innocent people with dsylexia, I am even more convinced that paranoia strikes deep. And more and more people are going to be killed us untrained and paranoid people buy guns without background checks or any kind of vetting. I do feel sorry for people who are living in this "fortress" mentality. This is just not even an issue in Canada. At all! I am safe with no guns, and because I am safe, I am free. Unlike so many Americans living in paranoid fear of just about everything these days.

Methinks you're "jumping the gun" on Mitspa with this "evidence" of yours. (pun intended)

Let's look at some facts:

Obama is doing his doggonest to take weapons out of the hands of citizens. Is there an agenda? Oh yes. His idea? I think not.

FEMA is arming itself to the teeth with military armaments & ammo. Now, why would they do that? They're also practicing on the homeless in FEMA camps in some states. What are they practicing for, I wonder?

There are armed military police now in about every federal department in nat'l govt. Are they expecting trouble, or planning ahead?

Now, you give us "reports" from Harvard, the most elitist university in the nation. What do you expect an elitist university to say? I'll tell you..... anything their elitist money donors tell them to say. Follow the paper trail..... the green one. So your gun reports are worthless.

Can anyone say "New World Order"? I know a few US presidents, including Obama, that's openly spoken about it.

 

[Dude653]

another key thing isnever pull a gun unless you are fully prepared to pull the trigger, otherwise the attacker will take the gun from you and kill you with it

 

[Mitspa]

I personally know a few people to do not need a firearm. imagine someone who's been up on some methamphetamine for about a week carrying a gun

so you think these people are going to obey gun laws?

 

[Dude653]

so you think these people are going to obey gun laws?

Or we could not give tweekers gun permits.

 

[Mitspa]

The one thing you are certainly noted for Mitspa, besides your extreme conservativeness ( no problem with that!) , is your total inability to produce a bible verse in the BDF or a link to the actual statistics on your assertions.

A link, even a shoddy one, would at least show there is some evidence on your side. In fact, there are many studies in many countries that prove the exact opposite of what you are saying about gun control. As for your red herring about cars, at least people are required to pass tests proving they are competent to drive! And yes, the over all amount of car accident probably goes up if there are more cars, but I doubt very much the RELATIVE amount goes up. Or maybe you don't understand what that means??

Back to gun control, and more proof that crime goes up the more legal guns that are available.

"A new study, however, throws cold water on the idea that a well-armed populace deters criminals or prevents murders. Instead, higher ownership of guns in a state is linked to more firearm robberies, more firearm assaults and more homicide in general. [5 Milestones in Gun Control History]"


"We found NO support for the hypothesis that gun control leads to a drop or a reduction in violent crime," said study researcher Michael Monuteaux, an epidemiologist and professor of pediatrics at Harvard Medical School. "Instead, we found the opposite."


More guns, more gun crime
Numerous studies have found that gun ownership correlates with gun homicide, and homicide by gun is the most common type of homicide in the United States. In 2013, for example, there were 16,121 total homicides in the United States, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), and 11,208 of those were carried out with a firearm. (Gun suicides outpace gun homicides by far; in 2013, the CDC recorded 21,175 suicides by firearm, about half of all suicides that year. Contrary to popular belief, suicide is typically an impulsive act, psychiatrists say. Ninety percent of people who attempt suicide once will not go on to complete a suicide later, but a suicide attempt using a gun is far more lethal than other methods.)


Monuteaux and his colleagues wanted to test whether increased gun ownership had any effect on gun homicides, overall homicides and violent gun crimes. They chose firearm robbery and assault, because those crimes are likely to be reported and recorded in the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) Uniform Crime Report.
Along with that FBI data, the researchers gathered gun ownership rates from surveys in the CDC's Behavioral Risk Factor Surveillance System, an ongoing, nationally representative survey in which participants answered questions about gun ownership in 2001, 2002 and 2004. Using those years and controlling for a slate of demographic factors, from median household income, population density, to age, race and more, the researchers compared crime rates and gun ownership levels state by state.


They found no evidence that states with more households with guns led to timid criminals. In fact, firearm assaults were 6.8 times more common in states with the most guns versus states with the least. Firearm robbery increased with every increase in gun ownership except in the very highest quintile of gun-owning states (the difference in that cluster was not statistically significant). Firearm homicide was 2.8 times more common in states with the most guns versus states with the least. [Private Gun Ownership in the US (Infographic)]


The researchers were able to test whether criminals were simply trading out other weapons for guns, at least in the case of homicide. They weren't. Overall homicide rates were just over 2 times higher in the most gun-owning states, meaning that gun ownership correlated with higher rates of all homicides, not just homicide with a gun. The results will be published in a forthcoming issue of the American Journal of Preventive Medicine."

Woe! in fact, according to the stats, assaults with firearms were actually 6.8 times higher in states with the most guns!

I'm waiting for some stats, MItspa, Certainly the NRA must have something floating around for you to use against my links, articles and statistics!

Here is you a bible verse ...

1Ti 2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

And you can post as many polls by liberals as you want ...the facts are that a society is safer when the people have legal guns... This is America ...you don't have to come here and I suggest you mind your own business.

 

[Dude653]

Here is you a bible verse ...

1Ti 2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

And you can post as many polls by liberals as you want ...the facts are that a society is safer when the people have legal guns... This is America ...you don't have to come here and I suggest you mind your own business.

only your Bible verse is out of context and irrelevant to this conversation

 

[tjogs]

Im not from the states so my standing is totally different from most of the posts here.

Here where i live you need a license to own a gun, in order to get the license you need paper from doctor etc to proof that you are capable of using the gun (mentally) and you are allowed to pull the gun only in situation mentioned in your license like hunting, shooting range or work if you are police. (self defense is not accepted as a reason for license) oh and Carrying uncovered gun or even replica in public place (unless you are on duty police or military personnel) is considered as crime and leads immediately police after you.