The USA Constitution Makes No Democracy; Requires Amending vs Oligarchy

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Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
4,995
53
48
#1
The continual US news is how judges are creating new laws, legislating from the bench, most notably by promoting baby-murder & sodomy. The solution is not amendments on abortion & sodomy, but stopping legislation from the bench (oligarchy).

The USA govt is not & never has been any democracy, except to a small extent with New England town hall meetings & referendums where the people actually vote on laws. We could have a democracy today with internet & telephone voting -- not that I am advocating it.

Actually the USA has a mixed constitution (as described by the ancient Roman Historian Polybius (a Greek who wrote in Greek). We have 5 elements of govt: 1) slight democracy, 2) monarchy in President, 3) Republic in legislatures/Congress, 4) oligarchy in the judges/justices (particularly in the SCOTUS), and 5) bureaucracy, a host of men who like the SCOTUS are unelected and hard to remove from office with (generally) no term limits. (Of course that is an oversimplification since we have state, county, and city governments, not to mention Indian groups & international agencies established by treaties.)

More & more the republic element seems eroded in the face of (non-constitutional) executive orders by the president, bureaucratic rules (like FCC which trump state legislatures, methinks), and SCOTUS decisions. The SCOTUS is actually an oligarchy. And the final laws are made by the oligarchy, not the Congress. The people did not vote in baby-murder nor sodomy. These were imposed on the people by the SCOTUS via blatant legislation from the bench. For once a man is a SCOTUS justice, he has the great temptation to abandon grammar & original intent, & to make the constitution say the outcome he desires (as Hillary indicated recently was her desire).

Our constitution is defective for not spelling out how (& by whom) the Constitution shall get its final interpretation. I think Oliver Wendall Holmes was the chief justice who declared that the Constitution means only what the SCOTUS says it means. This doctrine goes back at least as far as the early 1800's with the famous case of Marbury v Madison.

Thus we require an amendment to the constitution. For this evil cannot be eradicated by trying to amend the constitution for every issue separately.

A MODEST PROPOSAL FOR FIXING THE REPUBLIC

1. No more than 4 out of 9 SCOTUS justices may be lawyers. To give 1 class of persons such great authority is unwise.

2. No court may declare any law unconstitutional except the SCOTUS. But no such declaration shall have effect until ratified by normal legislative process (Congress & President) or by a plebiscite.

3. Federal judges shall be limited to a term of 10 years.

4. Either house by mere majority may require any federal judge or justice to stand a recall election at any time.

5. It shall be possible to pass a Bill of Legislation from the Bench, which shall consist of a declaration by congress that a judge or justice (or a group of such) has legislated from the bench in some case. Such a Bill shall require merely the majority of both houses voting separately for passage. Upon passage of such a bill, at once the judicial decision shall be vacated & the offending judges/justices shall be put up for recall election at once.

6. No filibuster shall be allowed in the above cases, nor in the case of a presidential appointment of a judge or justice. An up or down vote by the Senate shall occur within a month of any such appointment.

7. There shall be no executive orders by the president except in such matters as who parks where at the white house & who makes the coffee, etc.

8. Congress may not delegate legislative functions to agencies like the FCC.

Consider the objection of Thomas Jefferson to Marbury v Madison, objection to making the SCOTUS an oligarchy which makes the laws (taken from the Wickedpedia):
Jefferson disagreed with Marshall's reasoning in this case:
You seem to consider the judges as the ultimate arbiters of all constitutional questions; a very dangerous doctrine indeed, and one which would place us under the despotism of an oligarchy. Our judges are as honest as other men, and not more so. They have, with others, the same passions for party, for power, and the privilege of their corps.... Their power [is] the more dangerous as they are in office for life, and not responsible, as the other functionaries are, to the elective control. The Constitution has erected no such single tribunal, knowing that to whatever hands confided, with the corruptions of time and party, its members would become despots. It has more wisely made all the departments co-equal and co-sovereign within themselves

The above is something to pray about, keeping in mind that ultimately if the governing bodies are composed of mostly unsaved & spiritually depraved people, we are unlikely to have a righteous government, be it democracy, Republic, king, oligarchy, or whatever.
 
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hornetguy

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2016
6,662
1,407
113
#2
I think I agree with nearly all of that.. but I need to re-read it, and think about some of the proposed points. I wholeheartedly agree with the principle of it, however.
 

peacenik

Senior Member
May 11, 2016
3,071
26
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#3
The Constitution Makes No Democracy



The statement is correct based on Madison's Essay # 10 of the Federalist Papers where he wrote that representative government was more protective than democracy against certain factions. Interestingly, he also wrote that the unequal distribution of property was the cause of factionalism. While many credit this idea to Marx, it was actually Madison who made this comment:


''
[FONT=&quot] the most common and durable source of factions has been the various and unequal distribution of property''


[/FONT]
http://www.constitution.org/fed/federa10.htm
 
Aug 2, 2009
24,586
4,273
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#4
The US is a republic, not a true democracy. I thought most people knew that already...
 

Oncefallen

Idiot in Chief
Staff member
Jan 15, 2011
6,032
3,289
113
#5
The US is a republic, not a true democracy. I thought most people knew that already...

Either they aren't teaching it anymore or everyone sleeps through that particular lecture.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
113
#6

Either they aren't teaching it anymore or everyone sleeps through that particular lecture.
Billions for education and this is the fruit we get.

Dishonest professors filling the students with husks and not solid meat.

For the cause of Christ
Roger