U.S. Supreme Court declines stay 4 clerk refusing to issue gay marriage certificates

[Lis45]

Daniel brought no suit because that wasn't an option. Paul did bring suit as he appealed to Caesar.

Acts 25:11-12 (KJV)
11 For if I be an offender, or have committed any thing worthy of death, I refuse not to die: but if there be none of these things whereof these accuse me, no man may deliver me unto them. I appeal unto Caesar.
12 Then Festus, when he had conferred with the council, answered, Hast thou appealed unto Caesar? unto Caesar shalt thou go.

And there was a good chance he didn't need to...

Acts 26:31-32 (KJV)
31 And when they were gone aside, they talked between themselves, saying, This man doeth nothing worthy of death or of bonds.
32 Then said Agrippa unto Festus, This man might have been set at liberty, if he had not appealed unto Caesar.

and what was it he appealed to Ceasar for?.......

Daniel would not have brought suit even if there was an option...because had he done so after God delivered him, his reflection of Christ would've been completely blown...let alone he probably would've quite ticked off the "king" for trying to make him look bad, lol...and there goes Daniel's being placed in a "position of power" by an unbelieving king. Daniel was VERY wise to fully trust God alone in this one.

 

[crossnote]

and what was it he appealed to Ceasar for?.......

Daniel would not have brought suit even if there was an option...because had he done so after God delivered him, his reflection of Christ would've been completely blown...let alone he probably would've quite ticked off the "king" for trying to make him look bad, lol...and there goes Daniel's being placed in a "position of power" by an unbelieving king. Daniel was VERY wise to fully trust God alone in this one.

Paul was being falsely accused by the Jewish leaders. To appeal to a Roman ruler would have been taboo by many Christians today, yet Paul used his Roman citizenship to do just that.

 

[ThomistColin]

No this is not the legal constitutional process of our republic that requires that the people through to congressional process makes the laws that shape the society that the people desire. These judges rejected the constitution and acted against our Republic ...this lady upheld the true law of the land, namely the constitution. Many of us have taken a oath to defend our constitution against all enemies, both foreign and DOMESTIC ..... We have domestic enemies of our constitution and several of them are on the supreme court and have become lawless. NO ONE ...no citizens has to obey a unconstitutional order from any authority. If an authority rejects the constitution, that authority is void under our Republic

Except this battle was lost in the Dredd Scott trial. Actually, even before that. When "Judicial Review" entered into the annals of the American Code of Law, the battle was lost. When America allowed the citizens to elect both houses of Congress, the battle was lost. When the United States did not listen to our first President's warning about a two party system, the battle was lost. When we elected Barack Obama, the battle was lost.

What Libertarians and Constitutionalists argue and fight for is a lost Republic. Republic's are bound to fail, Julius and Augustus Caesar proved this. Unfortunately, we have fallen for the same trap.

You see, we cannot be Americans first, because we cannot pledge allegiance to the Flag, we cannot pledge our allegiance to any one country. Our allegiance is the the TRUE KING! We are first Christians. Our allegiance to our country is through our allegiance to God.

I agree with you that this should not be lawful. I agree it is against the Morality of God, which is the foundation of what is good and what is evil. But when we put the idol of America before our eyes, we allow that idol to do what it wills. And the will of America is in the hands of 300 million people, the majority of whom are not Christians, lukewarm, or actually are pagan or atheist. Welcome to the will of the American people.

Now you are going to say that the American people didn't want this. Well, their silence is staggering. You say there are protests. The protests are paltry compared to the protests for Gay marriage, for legalized narcotics, for pagan and atheist rights, for anti-war propaganda, etc. The true will of the American people is this: "Do what you want, so I can do what I want." Majority of Americans rally to the cry of Satan in Paradise Lost, "Better to reign in Hell, than to serve in Heaven."

All nations die. This is how it happens. Let us hope that the Christians in this nation remember who our allegiance is truly to, and how a piece of paper signed by a bunch of men is nothing compared to God.

 

[Lis45]

There should be no argument on this topic though because the bible gives many examples of men and women of God disobeying the laws of the land to continue to obey God.

This is shown from the OT all the way through the NT.............

Why do you think the Apostles/disciples were imprisoned, persecuted, and crucified or exiled ???

The laws of the land told them to stop preaching Jesus and they refused.

The whole obeying the laws of the governing authorities comes from Romans 13, but to take from that chapter we are to obey all the laws rather for or against God's ways is wrong.

This is where discernment needs to come into play as examples throughout the bible show denying man's laws to stand firm in God's ways. Even Acts 5:29 says we must obey God rather then men, therefore if Romans 13 meant all laws then these two passages would contradict. God's word however does not !!!

I don't think everybody is saying sue the governments, but there is enough evidence in the bible that we are to obey God over man.

When a law gets passed in the future under the anti-christ's system to deny Christ or be killed will you denounce the name of Jesus for the sake of the law ???

Ok. so you're saying it comes down to choice between the two. Is it going to be God's law? Or mans? You can't hold on to both when the two conflict..it just doesn't work. ever.

 

[Mitspa]

Except this battle was lost in the Dredd Scott trial. Actually, even before that. When "Judicial Review" entered into the annals of the American Code of Law, the battle was lost. When America allowed the citizens to elect both houses of Congress, the battle was lost. When the United States did not listen to our first President's warning about a two party system, the battle was lost. When we elected Barack Obama, the battle was lost.

What Libertarians and Constitutionalists argue and fight for is a lost Republic. Republic's are bound to fail, Julius and Augustus Caesar proved this. Unfortunately, we have fallen for the same trap.

You see, we cannot be Americans first, because we cannot pledge allegiance to the Flag, we cannot pledge our allegiance to any one country. Our allegiance is the the TRUE KING! We are first Christians. Our allegiance to our country is through our allegiance to God.

I agree with you that this should not be lawful. I agree it is against the Morality of God, which is the foundation of what is good and what is evil. But when we put the idol of America before our eyes, we allow that idol to do what it wills. And the will of America is in the hands of 300 million people, the majority of whom are not Christians, lukewarm, or actually are pagan or atheist. Welcome to the will of the American people.

Now you are going to say that the American people didn't want this. Well, their silence is staggering. You say there are protests. The protests are paltry compared to the protests for Gay marriage, for legalized narcotics, for pagan and atheist rights, for anti-war propaganda, etc. The true will of the American people is this: "Do what you want, so I can do what I want." Majority of Americans rally to the cry of Satan in Paradise Lost, "Better to reign in Hell, than to serve in Heaven."

All nations die. This is how it happens. Let us hope that the Christians in this nation remember who our allegiance is truly to, and how a piece of paper signed by a bunch of men is nothing compared to God.

Well the battle is not near lost ..all that is needed is the appointment of one conservative on the court to replace one of these lawless liberals ..and the conservatives will have so much power in congress and the presidency, if won? This liberal nonsense can be thrown back 30 years or more. The supreme court has been made nothing but another political institution and the American people now understand that and will fully support true conservatives to replace these ungodly and unlawful perverts that are now on that court. As far as the will of the American people..the elections prove that and have clearly shown a rejection of the leftwing agenda. The liberals have gone too far and will soon pay a price that it will takes decades for them to pay.

 

[ThomistColin]

Well the battle is not near lost ..all that is needed is the appointment of one conservative on the court to replace one of these lawless liberals ..and the conservatives will have so much power in congress and the presidency, if won? This liberal nonsense can be thrown back 30 years or more. The supreme court has been made nothing but another political institution and the American people now understand that and will fully support true conservatives to replace these ungodly and unlawful perverts that are now on that court. As far as the will of the American people..the elections prove that and have clearly shown a rejection of the leftwing agenda. The liberals have gone too far and will soon pay a price that it will takes decades for them to pay.

So, the response is that it is wrong to use this power when it is in the hands of liberals, but not in the hands of conservatives?

That is extremely niave. This "abuse of power" is not right in either hands. Again, you're allegiance is for a lost Republic. Honestly, that's not even true. The Republic never existed. It was always politics, it was always this way. The problem is that you believe there are clean hands on anyone's side.

The answer is Christ. His are the only clean hands. Obey Him. Seek Him. It's His Kingdom we proclaim, and no other.

 

[Lis45]

Except this battle was lost in the Dredd Scott trial. Actually, even before that. When "Judicial Review" entered into the annals of the American Code of Law, the battle was lost. When America allowed the citizens to elect both houses of Congress, the battle was lost. When the United States did not listen to our first President's warning about a two party system, the battle was lost. When we elected Barack Obama, the battle was lost.

What Libertarians and Constitutionalists argue and fight for is a lost Republic. Republic's are bound to fail, Julius and Augustus Caesar proved this. Unfortunately, we have fallen for the same trap.

You see, we cannot be Americans first, because we cannot pledge allegiance to the Flag, we cannot pledge our allegiance to any one country. Our allegiance is the the TRUE KING! We are first Christians. Our allegiance to our country is through our allegiance to God.

I agree with you that this should not be lawful. I agree it is against the Morality of God, which is the foundation of what is good and what is evil. But when we put the idol of America before our eyes, we allow that idol to do what it wills. And the will of America is in the hands of 300 million people, the majority of whom are not Christians, lukewarm, or actually are pagan or atheist. Welcome to the will of the American people.

Now you are going to say that the American people didn't want this. Well, their silence is staggering. You say there are protests. The protests are paltry compared to the protests for Gay marriage, for legalized narcotics, for pagan and atheist rights, for anti-war propaganda, etc. The true will of the American people is this: "Do what you want, so I can do what I want." Majority of Americans rally to the cry of Satan in Paradise Lost, "Better to reign in Hell, than to serve in Heaven."

All nations die. This is how it happens. Let us hope that the Christians in this nation remember who our allegiance is truly to, and how a piece of paper signed by a bunch of men is nothing compared to God.

So true. This is not a fight between "liberal and conservative". Both are responsible for their own evils. This is a prediction-come-true of a nation who idolizes itself. Truth is? We got too big for our breeches...and there is no-one excused from this at any time in our country's history, whether "liberal or conservative". I don't blame any one group..because it's a combination of the activities of all groups that have contributed to this mess we've become. We need God. No one and nothing else matters in relation to that. Love God, live God, and be infectious with the love of Christ to all.

 

[Lis45]

So, the response is that it is wrong to use this power when it is in the hands of liberals, but not in the hands of conservatives?

That is extremely niave. This "abuse of power" is not right in either hands. Again, you're allegiance is for a lost Republic. Honestly, that's not even true. The Republic never existed. It was always politics, it was always this way. The problem is that you believe there are clean hands on anyone's side.

The answer is Christ. His are the only clean hands. Obey Him. Seek Him. It's His Kingdom we proclaim, and no other.

amen, amen and amen!

 

[Mitspa]

So, the response is that it is wrong to use this power when it is in the hands of liberals, but not in the hands of conservatives?

That is extremely niave. This "abuse of power" is not right in either hands. Again, you're allegiance is for a lost Republic. Honestly, that's not even true. The Republic never existed. It was always politics, it was always this way. The problem is that you believe there are clean hands on anyone's side.

The answer is Christ. His are the only clean hands. Obey Him. Seek Him. It's His Kingdom we proclaim, and no other.

No.... power to do good...is good. Power used to promote end enforce evil is evil. Political power that agrees with God is ordained of God. Political power that opposes God is ordained by satan. This is not hard to figure out.

You cant defend the legal authority to do evil and try to justify the perversion of our society and then claim your represent the kingdom of heaven...because clearly you don't nor does anyone that defends this perversion.

 

[ThomistColin]

No.... power to do good...is good. Power used to promote end enforce evil is evil. Political power that agrees with God is ordained of God. Political power that opposes God is ordained by satan. This is not hard to figure out.

You cant defend the legal authority to do evil and try to justify the perversion of our society and then claim your represent the kingdom of heaven...because clearly you don't nor does anyone that defends this perversion.

Again, you attack me personally as "defending this perversion."

You ignore me. That's okay, Mitspa. You seem to worship this American Dream where all that is legal is good and all that is illegal is bad. Unfortunately, THAT AMERICA NEVER EXISTED!

We had legal prostitution, and still do in one state. We had legal slavery. We had an oppressive government that stifled the Freedom of Speech under Adams and Jefferson. We had a president send US soldiers to incarcerate people who were making alcohol because they refused to pay local state fees (even though they weren't in the states that demanded the fees). We had a Vice President and a Treasurer fight in a duel. We had a Treasurer who sought to make the states useless and the Federal Government the center of all power.

Your war was lost during the Presidency of George Washington.

So, declaim the government. Prophecy God's warning to mankind. That's fine. But do not argue for an America that never was or will be. We are prophecying the True Kingdom of God, which will have God on the throne and no mere man, but God Himself in flesh. His name is Jesus Christ, King of Kings and Lord of Lords.

We are to be apart from all of this. We are supposed to be serving God, not a three colored flag.

But, you will ignore all of this and claim I'm defending gay marriage. Even though I denounce the very government that made it law. You have faith in a false system. Its corrupt, and cannot stand. All nations are corrupt and cannot stand.

 

[Mitspa]

Again, you attack me personally as "defending this perversion."

You ignore me. That's okay, Mitspa. You seem to worship this American Dream where all that is legal is good and all that is illegal is bad. Unfortunately, THAT AMERICA NEVER EXISTED!

We had legal prostitution, and still do in one state. We had legal slavery. We had an oppressive government that stifled the Freedom of Speech under Adams and Jefferson. We had a president send US soldiers to incarcerate people who were making alcohol because they refused to pay local state fees (even though they weren't in the states that demanded the fees). We had a Vice President and a Treasurer fight in a duel. We had a Treasurer who sought to make the states useless and the Federal Government the center of all power.

Your war was lost during the Presidency of George Washington.

So, declaim the government. Prophecy God's warning to mankind. That's fine. But do not argue for an America that never was or will be. We are prophecying the True Kingdom of God, which will have God on the throne and no mere man, but God Himself in flesh. His name is Jesus Christ, King of Kings and Lord of Lords.

We are to be apart from all of this. We are supposed to be serving God, not a three colored flag.

But, you will ignore all of this and claim I'm defending gay marriage. Even though I denounce the very government that made it law. You have faith in a false system. Its corrupt, and cannot stand. All nations are corrupt and cannot stand.

So you denounce the government and the system ...ok I guess you don't believe in the constitution either? Or that this nation and the people of this nation have every right to shape our society according to our own moral percepts ?

The idea that we give-up trying to shape a godly and moral society is just without logic and unbiblical.

 

[ThomistColin]

So you denounce the government and the system ...ok I guess you don't believe in the constitution either? Or that this nation and the people of this nation have every right to shape our society according to our own moral percepts ?

The idea that we give-up trying to shape a godly and moral society is just without logic and unbiblical.

No, see that's where you are wrong. You believe that people have the "right" to shape their societies. Well, you are right in that we have the ability to. No, the answer for Christians is not control, but submission to God.

You seem to believe the lie that we should be the ruling people in this world. Unfortunately, that simply doesn't work. We, either, adhere to our God or seek to rule our own lives. The answer isn't give up, but to stop relying on the Devil's ways. Its to do what Christians do best: take care of people and love them according to God's will. Ours is a life of servitude. But that word scares people. They don't want to be servants, they want to be kings. Except they forget that is exactly what a King is, a servant. We walk in the way of the Lord, as a lowly servant, who deserves nothing, but is gracious for every good thing, knowing that it comes from the Lord Himself.

 

[Mitspa]

No, see that's where you are wrong. You believe that people have the "right" to shape their societies. Well, you are right in that we have the ability to. No, the answer for Christians is not control, but submission to God.

You seem to believe the lie that we should be the ruling people in this world. Unfortunately, that simply doesn't work. We, either, adhere to our God or seek to rule our own lives. The answer isn't give up, but to stop relying on the Devil's ways. Its to do what Christians do best: take care of people and love them according to God's will. Ours is a life of servitude. But that word scares people. They don't want to be servants, they want to be kings. Except they forget that is exactly what a King is, a servant. We walk in the way of the Lord, as a lowly servant, who deserves nothing, but is gracious for every good thing, knowing that it comes from the Lord Himself.

Friend submission to God means you act godly and uphold the moral precepts of God...it means your a good citizens that cares about your society ...submission to God, means action , not inaction and submission to evil forces and people.

God established this nation and this system where the moral Christian precepts of the people would have power....To me and many others believers the rights we have here in this nation are clearly Gods intention and are to be defended with the power and authority given to us under the constitution . Its not a debatable issue for some of us, its a matter of faith and I think should be clear to any honest believer.

 

[ThomistColin]

Friend submission to God means you act godly and uphold the moral precepts of God...it means your a good citizens that cares about your society ...submission to God, means action , not inaction and submission to evil forces and people.

God established this nation and this system where the moral Christian precepts of the people would have power....To me and many others believers the rights we have here in this nation are clearly Gods intention and are to be defended with the power and authority given to us under the constitution . Its not a debatable issue for some of us, its a matter of faith and I think should be clear to any honest believer.

God did not found the United States. The United States was founded by a group of men who believed in a single idea. An idea dreamed up in the secret society of the Free Masons. Freedom of Thought unbound. Your "new Jerusalem" as the Mormons think of it, is a fantasy.

Do you honestly think God approved of English citizens, for whom an Empire went to war and bankrupted itself, not paying their taxes?

Do you believe God approved when those citizens founded their own nation and began a war of desecration and murderous intent against the native peoples of that land?

Do you believe God approved when those citizens enslaved an entire peoples and made themselves rich and founded an ENTIRE economy on the backs of those slaves?

You have openly acknowledged your idol. Unfortunately, it is not worth anything.

I love America because I love the people I grew up with, the town I live in, and the mountains that surround it. However, this does not drive me to believe in an America that I was taught about. We are simply a nation. A Grand Nation. An Empire of Historical Proportions. But that's it, nothing more.

 

[Mitspa]

God did not found the United States. The United States was founded by a group of men who believed in a single idea. An idea dreamed up in the secret society of the Free Masons. Freedom of Thought unbound. Your "new Jerusalem" as the Mormons think of it, is a fantasy.

Do you honestly think God approved of English citizens, for whom an Empire went to war and bankrupted itself, not paying their taxes?

Do you believe God approved when those citizens founded their own nation and began a war of desecration and murderous intent against the native peoples of that land?

Do you believe God approved when those citizens enslaved an entire peoples and made themselves rich and founded an ENTIRE economy on the backs of those slaves?

You have openly acknowledged your idol. Unfortunately, it is not worth anything.

I love America because I love the people I grew up with, the town I live in, and the mountains that surround it. However, this does not drive me to believe in an America that I was taught about. We are simply a nation. A Grand Nation. An Empire of Historical Proportions. But that's it, nothing more.

Dude you been watching too many Youtube videos ... and you don't have to believe that God established this nation to understand that we as Christians are not called to surrender our society over to perversion and wickedness ..that we are in fact called to be good citizens and shape our society within the legal process. Now to me and many others, its clear God Almighty used all manner of men to give us the liberty we have and establish a legal code based on the constitution .. so you can believe whatever you like about how God worked or didn't work in the formation of this nation, what is evident is we are not called to set by or passively approve evil as it grows and destroys our people.

 

[ThomistColin]

Dude you been watching too many Youtube videos ... and you don't have to believe that God established this nation to understand that we as Christians are not called to surrender our society over to perversion and wickedness ..that we are in fact called to be good citizens and shape our society within the legal process. Now to me and many others, its clear God Almighty used all manner of men to give us the liberty we have and establish a legal code based on the constitution .. so you can believe whatever you like about how God worked or didn't work in the formation of this nation, what is evident is we are not called to set by or passively approve evil as it grows and destroys our people.

First, I haven't been watching Youtube. Nice try there, by the way. But actually read about the teachings of the Free Masons. They aren't a "pagan society that worships Lucifer." They are not what people make them out to be. Honestly, they are far worse. They are a society of followers of the philosophy of John Locke and Thomas Hobbes. A society that argues that man is an independent being, an island unto himself. They are supporters of the Enlightenment (and no they didn't engineer it, just believe in it.) They believe that all objective truth is verifiable and support this idea. This is why the Free Masons allow Christians, Jews, Muslims, and certain Buddhists to enter their organization. They require believers in a single God to enter. They believe in the free exchange of ideas and beliefs without boundaries.

It sounds passive, but actually it isn't. You see the Free Masons believe that all who believe in one God have already got the foundation of truth, however, beyond that all must be verified. Many of the Founding Fathers were Free Masons and high members of the Free Masons in the colonies. They believed the same thing. They wanted to create a society that placed power into the hands of the people and allow the will of the people to move. They believe in "tabla rasa", a clean slate society that would rise higher and become a great society.

You might see that as a great belief and idea, except it fails at ONE major junction, "Man is not an individual who is free." Man is a creature of God, made for the purpose of loving and serving God.

The answer again is Christ. You think I'm attacking doing something, and calling for us to be passive. No, I'm calling for us to actually do something. To talk to your co-workers about God and His beloved Son. To go on mission, to feed the poor, to take care of the downtrodden. TO DO WHAT CHRIST COMMANDED.

You want to fight the "Big Picture." You can't. You can fight the evils in front of you, and the Big Picture crumbles from the bottom.

My problem is not where you are claiming the enemies to be. My issue is that your way of fighting is useless. Its not simply voting. Its not simply gay marriage. Its fixing all the problems of this Republic. Its requiring cause for divorce again. Its making sure we make every small step count.

Its called "the little way".

 

[Lis45]

Paul was being falsely accused by the Jewish leaders. To appeal to a Roman ruler would have been taboo by many Christians today, yet Paul used his Roman citizenship to do just that.

Exactly...and he used his Roman citizenship to do just that. He was being falsely accused of breaking any law.

 

[Lis45]

First, I haven't been watching Youtube. Nice try there, by the way. But actually read about the teachings of the Free Masons. They aren't a "pagan society that worships Lucifer." They are not what people make them out to be. Honestly, they are far worse. They are a society of followers of the philosophy of John Locke and Thomas Hobbes. A society that argues that man is an independent being, an island unto himself. They are supporters of the Enlightenment (and no they didn't engineer it, just believe in it.) They believe that all objective truth is verifiable and support this idea. This is why the Free Masons allow Christians, Jews, Muslims, and certain Buddhists to enter their organization. They require believers in a single God to enter. They believe in the free exchange of ideas and beliefs without boundaries.

It sounds passive, but actually it isn't. You see the Free Masons believe that all who believe in one God have already got the foundation of truth, however, beyond that all must be verified. Many of the Founding Fathers were Free Masons and high members of the Free Masons in the colonies. They believed the same thing. They wanted to create a society that placed power into the hands of the people and allow the will of the people to move. They believe in "tabla rasa", a clean slate society that would rise higher and become a great society.

You might see that as a great belief and idea, except it fails at ONE major junction, "Man is not an individual who is free." Man is a creature of God, made for the purpose of loving and serving God.

The answer again is Christ. You think I'm attacking doing something, and calling for us to be passive. No, I'm calling for us to actually do something. To talk to your co-workers about God and His beloved Son. To go on mission, to feed the poor, to take care of the downtrodden. TO DO WHAT CHRIST COMMANDED.

You want to fight the "Big Picture." You can't. You can fight the evils in front of you, and the Big Picture crumbles from the bottom.

My problem is not where you are claiming the enemies to be. My issue is that your way of fighting is useless. Its not simply voting. Its not simply gay marriage. Its fixing all the problems of this Republic. Its requiring cause for divorce again. Its making sure we make every small step count.

Its called "the little way".

It's so much easier for man to "fight against" than it is for man to "love" in the way God does (and you hit it right on, T. in how he has commanded us to love and to serve others). It is definitely not a passive thing...in fact it's HARD and requires full time moment to moment submission to God. None of this fighting people are doing over religion, government, and politics is getting anyone anywhere. In fact, it does just the opposite...it keeps the anger rising, the hateful hating, and the division widening...all the while the commandments of Christ get pushed to oblivion because we're so busy fighting...or defending...as if God Himself needs our help in doing so...and there his commands to us lie buried beneath it all as if they are insignificant..or don't really matter...and that's exactly what the devil enjoys most about all of this craziness. No..God does not need our help to fight evil....he has already won that fight....our job is to do what Christ has commanded..that is where the battle of life and death is truly won.

 

[Mitspa]

First, I haven't been watching Youtube. Nice try there, by the way. But actually read about the teachings of the Free Masons. They aren't a "pagan society that worships Lucifer." They are not what people make them out to be. Honestly, they are far worse. They are a society of followers of the philosophy of John Locke and Thomas Hobbes. A society that argues that man is an independent being, an island unto himself. They are supporters of the Enlightenment (and no they didn't engineer it, just believe in it.) They believe that all objective truth is verifiable and support this idea. This is why the Free Masons allow Christians, Jews, Muslims, and certain Buddhists to enter their organization. They require believers in a single God to enter. They believe in the free exchange of ideas and beliefs without boundaries.

It sounds passive, but actually it isn't. You see the Free Masons believe that all who believe in one God have already got the foundation of truth, however, beyond that all must be verified. Many of the Founding Fathers were Free Masons and high members of the Free Masons in the colonies. They believed the same thing. They wanted to create a society that placed power into the hands of the people and allow the will of the people to move. They believe in "tabla rasa", a clean slate society that would rise higher and become a great society.

You might see that as a great belief and idea, except it fails at ONE major junction, "Man is not an individual who is free." Man is a creature of God, made for the purpose of loving and serving God.

The answer again is Christ. You think I'm attacking doing something, and calling for us to be passive. No, I'm calling for us to actually do something. To talk to your co-workers about God and His beloved Son. To go on mission, to feed the poor, to take care of the downtrodden. TO DO WHAT CHRIST COMMANDED.

You want to fight the "Big Picture." You can't. You can fight the evils in front of you, and the Big Picture crumbles from the bottom.

My problem is not where you are claiming the enemies to be. My issue is that your way of fighting is useless. Its not simply voting. Its not simply gay marriage. Its fixing all the problems of this Republic. Its requiring cause for divorce again. Its making sure we make every small step count.

Its called "the little way".

Im not sure in all this where we are supposed to turn our society over to sexual deviants and where you decide how and where others should speak out or how effective that will or wont be? The fact is that people like me are gaining more and more power and may soon have enough political power to preserve the moral standards of our society. So you seem to just be speaking in circles by saying we shouldn't try to preserve the moral health of our society and then when its clear you lose that debate ..change your argument to we cant make a difference . I say we should and can make a difference in our society and have a very real and moral responsibility as Christians to do that very thing.

 

[Mitspa]

It's so much easier for man to "fight against" than it is for man to "love" in the way God does (and you hit it right on, T. in how he has commanded us to love and to serve others). It is definitely not a passive thing...in fact it's HARD and requires full time moment to moment submission to God. None of this fighting people are doing over religion, government, and politics is getting anyone anywhere. In fact, it does just the opposite...it keeps the anger rising, the hateful hating, and the division widening...all the while the commandments of Christ get pushed to oblivion because we're so busy fighting...or defending...as if God Himself needs our help in doing so...and there his commands to us lie buried beneath it all as if they are insignificant..or don't really matter...and that's exactly what the devil enjoys most about all of this craziness. No..God does not need our help to fight evil....he has already won that fight....our job is to do what Christ has commanded..that is where the battle of life and death is truly won.

Yea is very clear how godly you are .... so godly you defend and promote the gay agenda on this forum while telling other Christians that God don't really want us to fight evil...have you even read the bible?