US spy case: Snowden seeks Switzerland asylum move

[royalscot]

BBC News - US spy case: Snowden seeks Switzerland asylum move

count the cost to freedom. would the usa ever let this man free.

"The only thing they've said at this point was that they would not execute me," he said. "That's not quite the same thing as agreeing to a fair and open trial."

 

[Skinski7]

Switzerland would be a wonderful place to get asylum for him if possible. Switzerland is my favourite country in Europe, I love the people, languages, culture and the bread and cheese.

Switzerland is still a very independent nation as far as I can tell due to their referendum governing structure. It is not an easy thing to subvert their system as all the major laws are put to the people for a direct vote.

I would hope Snowden would apply and get asylum there.

 

[royalscot]

Switzerland would be a wonderful place to get asylum for him if possible. Switzerland is my favourite country in Europe, I love the people, languages, culture and the bread and cheese.

Switzerland is still a very independent nation as far as I can tell due to their referendum governing structure. It is not an easy thing to subvert their system as all the major laws are put to the people for a direct vote.

I would hope Snowden would apply and get asylum there.

usa are saying in layman terms, you can run, and hide, but we will get you.

 

[Skinski7]

usa are saying in layman terms, you can run, and hide, but we will get you.

I am sure they want to make an example of him to deter other would be whistle blowers.

 

[Skinski7]

I just did a bit of digging and found this...

http://www.mcnabbassociates.com/Swi...Extradition Treaty with the United States.pdf

There is no way that Snowden ought seek to live in Switzerland in light of that.

 

[Viligant_Warrior]

There is no way that Snowden ought seek to live in Switzerland in light of that.

So you think it's just great he absconded with national security secrets and hid in Russia for two years, and refuses to come home.

In light of your beliefs about Ukraine, I am not in the least surprised.

If he's got a story to tell, let him come home, face the consequences for his actions, and tell it to Congress, and the courts.

 

[Desdichado]

So you think it's just great he absconded with national security secrets and hid in Russia for two years, and refuses to come home.

In light of your beliefs about Ukraine, I am not in the least surprised.

If he's got a story to tell, let him come home, face the consequences for his actions, and tell it to Congress, and the courts.

Snowden makes it sound as if that is what he wants, only the United States government will not guarantee it.

My pet theory is that Uncle Sam wants one of two options for Snowden: stay abroad or "go missing."

 

[GodIsSalvation]

Considerring Snowden released all these details of US government's criminal activities against all US citizens to the public that means he is our spy. He initially fled to Hong Kong, but due to China's close connections with the US he was forced to go into exile to Russia due to publicly declared death threats from high US officials that were implicated in the crimes he revealed.

Me thinks since we forgave our government servants for spying on all of us that the US government ought to also forgive Mr. Snowden.

 

[Skinski7]

Considerring Snowden released all these details of US government's criminal activities against all US citizens to the public that means he is our spy. He initially fled to Hong Kong, but due to China's close connections with the US he was forced to go into exile to Russia due to publicly declared death threats from high US officials that were implicated in the crimes he revealed.

Me thinks since we forgave our government servants for spying on all of us that the US government ought to also forgive Mr. Snowden.

That would be nice but unfortunately that is not how it works. Time and time again it is made evident that many in government have an "us versus them" attitude where they perceive themselves as understanding the complexities of the world whilst we the people are but cattle to be corralled for our own best interests.

Snowden knows it cannot end well for him if he is to return to the U.S. to face the music. Glenn Greenwald even fears prosecution if he were to return to the U.S.

 

[Skinski7]

So you think it's just great he absconded with national security secrets and hid in Russia for two years, and refuses to come home.

In light of your beliefs about Ukraine, I am not in the least surprised.

If he's got a story to tell, let him come home, face the consequences for his actions, and tell it to Congress, and the courts.

Snowden has been telling his story for a couple of years now.

Snowden is facing the consequences for his actions right now and clearly views that it is not in his best interests to return to the USA. I agree with him.

Speaking of returning home here is a video of journalist Graham Phillips explaining what happened to him when he returned home to Britain from a 9 month reporting stint in the Donbass.

[video=youtube;RPL7k8bNtLE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RPL7k8bNtLE[/video]

It can certainly be problematic when one's conscience gets in the way of blind loyalty to the status quo.

 

[GodIsSalvation]

That would be nice but unfortunately that is not how it works. Time and time again it is made evident that many in government have an "us versus them" attitude where they perceive themselves as understanding the complexities of the world whilst we the people are but cattle to be corralled for our own best interests.

Snowden knows it cannot end well for him if he is to return to the U.S. to face the music. Glenn Greenwald even fears prosecution if he were to return to the U.S.

Works differently in America. Our government servants know in the back of their minds that the people can do anything to them at anytime. This is why they come up with excuses and try to shift the blame.

Everything comes down to the kings in America, not the government. There are only two hindrances to this. One is whether the kings care or not. The second is whether the kings can agree or not.

In the case of Snowden enough people care that the case merits consideration and that the government must tread lightly. The on-going issue with Snowden is that the kings do not agree on what to do with Snowden. Most everyone I know agrees that Snowden's report to us is not illegal due to it exposing illegality. The crux of the disagreement revolves around him going to Russia with some contending he was, or now is, a Russian agent and some contending he was driven into exile to Russia by US government threats.

 

[Skinski7]

Works differently in America. Our government servants know in the back of their minds that the people can do anything to them at anytime. This is why they come up with excuses and try to shift the blame.

Everything comes down to the kings in America, not the government. There are only two hindrances to this. One is whether the kings care or not. The second is whether the kings can agree or not.

In the case of Snowden enough people care that the case merits consideration and that the government must tread lightly. The on-going issue with Snowden is that the kings do not agree on what to do with Snowden. Most everyone I know agrees that Snowden's report to us is not illegal due to it exposing illegality. The crux of the disagreement revolves around him going to Russia with some contending he was, or now is, a Russian agent and some contending he was driven into exile to Russia by US government threats.

I have met a lot of people here in the U.S. who would like to see Snowden charged with treason. I do live in a conservative/republican area and people are easily fed a position via talk radio and by the talking heads of the Fox Network.

I do agree that it is up to the "kings of America" ie. the people. The problem is that most people today are easily manipulated via Public Relations techniques. That is why they keep voting either Democrat or Republican and nothing really changes except the U.S. continues to slide down the road to tyranny.

The Founders of the U.S. warned against democracy and populism and often it seems that those warnings are relatively unheeded.

As long as the average person has a chicken in their pot and their games to watch and play then anything else which requires depth is generally very pliable as it pertains to the work of the PR scientists.

 

[Skinski7]

I suppose I am quite cynical but I can't seem to help it.

I used to be pretty engaged in political activism both in Australia and here in the U.S. The turning point for me was the 2008 election where I volunteered as a district coordinator for the Ron Paul campaign. I had the opportunity to engage with a lot of people and due to being a foreign national I think people would often be more forthright to me (ie. they wanted to educate me) so I would let them speak.

I soon realised that whilst many people were indeed concerned with the direction things were going, it was a very small minority who would take it upon themselves to do their own independent research to verify things for themselves. Thus I found that most people would usually fall into step and adopt the status quo expounded by some populist would would tickle their ear (a good example of this is the Tea Party Movement).

I clearly witnessed this in the Ron Paul campaign where it seemed that the majority of those involved saw Ron Paul as some golden bullet and really did not seem to understand that the U.S. political system is designed with a bottom up approach. What I mean by that is the true power of the people is found in their respective local areas through their local legislature and sheriff all the way up to the state legislature. The Federal Government is meant to be very limited in this regard and the only reason it wields the power it does is due to people "believing it has the power" mainly due to the environment created through the States yielding sovereignty in exchange for Federal financing. Thus the entire focus on electing a President to solve the problems is a moot point if the bottom level continues as business as usual, which it does.

If Snowden were to return to the United States he would simply be subjective himself to public opinion which is very susceptible to Public Relations, a fickle thing indeed. Thus he would be really throwing himself to the lions in the hope that the onlookers (who would be looking at each other - judging ourselves by ourselves [SIC]) would somehow call for him to be spared.

It is a crazy world in which we live.

 

[GodIsSalvation]

I have met a lot of people here in the U.S. who would like to see Snowden charged with treason. I do live in a conservative/republican area and people are easily fed a position via talk radio and by the talking heads of the Fox Network.

I do agree that it is up to the "kings of America" ie. the people. The problem is that most people today are easily manipulated via Public Relations techniques. That is why they keep voting either Democrat or Republican and nothing really changes except the U.S. continues to slide down the road to tyranny.

The Founders of the U.S. warned against democracy and populism and often it seems that those warnings are relatively unheeded.

As long as the average person has a chicken in their pot and their games to watch and play then anything else which requires depth is generally very pliable as it pertains to the work of the PR scientists.

Me thinks if they have to spend so much time, resources, and efforts that only proves they have no real power and only serves to prove we be kings all the more since they have to beg us.

As for the so-called founders, they matter not at all. The living must consider the living.

 

[secularhermit]

Who is going to give him an employ?

(and what for?)

 

[royalscot]

they are more interested, at this point and time, the full extent,of what he has disclosed to others.
yet, to the media , spin doctor, and politics, its open season, for propaganda debates. etc etc

 

[Chainhand]

Who is going to give him an employ?

(and what for?)

The Freedom of the Press foundation has placed him on the board of directors. I don't know if it is a paid position or not, but he had no trouble throughout his career finding well-paying jobs.

Personally, I think he's the biggest traitor in US history since George Washington.

 

[Desdichado]

Who is going to give him an employ?

(and what for?)

Cameo film appearances. The talk radio circuit.

In all seriousness, I have no doubt that a libertarian outfit would furnish a niche for him of some kind among their paid activist groups (however few exist).

 

[Viligant_Warrior]

Considerring Snowden released all these details of US government's criminal activities against all US citizens to the public that means he is our spy. He initially fled to Hong Kong, but due to China's close connections with the US ...

If we're "so close to China," why they are creating international incidents in the South China Sea by overflying U.S. warships and colliding with them in open waters?

...he was forced to go into exile to Russia ...

Forced? By whom? The only "force" involved was his own, "forcibly" seeking to avoid the incarceration of his treasonous butt. I don't care how beneficial his revelations were to the U.S. public -- and I question they revealed anything we didn't already innately know anyway -- he obtained the information through espionage and treason. The last I remember, that's still illegal in the U.S.

... due to publicly declared death threats from high US officials that were implicated in the crimes he revealed.

You have valid links to prove such "threats," I suppose? Something besides InfoWars.com?

Me thinks since we forgave our government servants for spying on all of us ...

We did? When? Nobody gave me anything to sign.

... that the US government ought to also forgive Mr. Snowden.

Yeah, let's all just forgive a treasonous spy. No problem.

 

[GodIsSalvation]

If we're "so close to China," why they are creating international incidents in the South China Sea by overflying U.S. warships and colliding with them in open waters? View attachment 100498

Forced? By whom? The only "force" involved was his own, "forcibly" seeking to avoid the incarceration of his treasonous butt. I don't care how beneficial his revelations were to the U.S. public -- and I question they revealed anything we didn't already innately know anyway -- he obtained the information through espionage and treason. The last I remember, that's still illegal in the U.S.

You have valid links to prove such "threats," I suppose? Something besides InfoWars.com?

We did? When? Nobody gave me anything to sign.

Yeah, let's all just forgive a treasonous spy. No problem. View attachment 100499

On China-US relations: Me thinks you need only look where your products are "Made In" to understand the close ties between the US and China. Mayhap you all ready know whom has invested nearly 1 trillion dollars in the US?

On Snowden and US govenment spying. If Snowden obtained his information by espionage and treason; how did the US government obtain the information on all its people?

I saw well enough when the Snow Day happened them Democrats and GOPers calling to do evil unto Snowden and such on many news programs. Some subtley, some actually quite bluntly. You can easily look these up yourself, here is just one small sample since you demand proof. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJM-LjiBv-0 (video link is to infamous comment made by John Bolton, former ambassador to UN and originally aired on FOX News, not Infowars.)

Indeed we must forgive Snowden or elsewise it is hypocrisy to forgive the government of the exact same crime. If we do not forgive our own government then we must dissolve it post haste. Me thinks it will cause less hardship and be easier to simply forgive and expect our servants to forgive because we have forgiven them.