-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
M
I was just thinking about the 10 lepers, only 2 were thankful. Jesus still healed all 10.
Maybe the other 8 grew more appreciative with time or maybe they just weren't in
the right mind set at that time.
Changing circumstances is one thing but changing mind sets is much harder.
That really does take a miracle.
Maybe the other 8 grew more appreciative with time or maybe they just weren't in
the right mind set at that time.
Changing circumstances is one thing but changing mind sets is much harder.
That really does take a miracle.
Hey Galatea,
No worries. I didn't see it as an attack at all, just a difference of opinions and conclusions. I do agree that we are to have the mind of Christ for others, BUT, I think it's also important to remember that we are NOT Christ.
If I have 5 loaves and 2 fishes in my pocket, try as I might, and as much as I might want to, I can't feed 5,000 people. If God blesses what I have, maybe I could feed 5 people--and it's up to me to ask for God's wisdom and discernment as to who those 5 people will be. Maybe it's going to be on a first-come, first-serve basis.
But knowing what I believe to be is my particular calling, my first choice would be to give it to those I saw working to serve the masses, and not the masses themselves.
I do understand what you mean about people grumbling as a cover for other problems. Shoot, they're at a soup kitchen and presumably homeless, I'm SURE they're probably having a bad day! But I think that's also an issue that people seldom talk about honestly in ministry. You have to use a lot of discernment and sometimes, you have to distance yourself from some people.
Jesus did not always make Himself available 24/7. Luke 5:16 says, "Jesus often withdrew to lonely places and prayed." He purposely got away from the crowds and made himself UNavailable, and I personally think we are to follow this example as well. But that's just my own conclusion.
Several years ago, I was part of a prayer ministry. It was my first time participating in something like that and I was very wide-eyed and wanted to help everyone. I ran into a couple of problems I had never even anticipated:
* A woman who was going through a situation I was familiar with in my own life. But she wouldn't make the decisions she needed to change. I gave her my phone number and told her to call anytime she needed to talk.
And call she did. Day, night, and every time in between, always talking about the same thing. She didn't want to have to make the hard decisions, she wanted to be told that God was going to work things out and make everything all right without her having to do anything, because, after all, "God works for the good of those who love Him."
I was totally overwhelmed and didn't know what to do. This woman would be calling at 2 AM, and I never said no. I always let her talk. I thought I was doing what God wanted me to do. Eventually an elder noticed that this woman had kind of latched on to me and intervened, and fortunately, this stopped most of the madness. I saw this woman 5 years later--and she was still in the exact same situation, and when I talked to her, she wanted to be told the exact same thing.
Sorry... But I believe God was telling me to move on to the next group of people He had waiting for me.
* Our group once prayed for a man about 10 years older than me. Great man of God, wonderful leader, married for a long time--I'd been in one of his Bible classes and really enjoyed it. But like any of us, he had some struggles in his life and asked for prayer, though he didn't say for what.
I can't explain why, but I had this very strong feeling that he was fighting an addiction to porn--it wasn't a judgment, just something I felt God put on my heart to pray over on his behalf without saying anything--and after our prayer for him, I just said, "You know, I think God wants you to know that whatever you're having problems with, He knows your heart is sincere."
Some time later, this man approached me while I was in the prayer group and asked if he could talk to me, and if I'd pray for him alone, because he said that what I'd said had greatly encouraged him.
I have no doubt that this was a great man of God and that he didn't intend any harm, but I am positive that God was saying to me, "NO." I told the man, "Thank you so much for telling me that--it's really encouraging to me, too. My prayer partner, 'Carol' (and I pulled her a little closer) and I would be happy to pray for you."
Do I think this man had any wrongdoing on his mind at the time? No. But I also believed that God was telling me, "Don't encourage or provide an atmosphere that might contribute towards his getting attached to you."
The experiences I had on this team were invaluable, and I learned, very clearly, that, for me, at least, I need to set very clear boundaries and hold to them, and if anyone tries to overstep them, I seek help from elders or higher authorities.
I know that you and others may feel differently, and I applaud you for wanting to help anyone that crosses your path at anytime, but I also appreciate the fact that I think you and I are also the kind of people who can agree to disagree in a peaceful way.
Much respect to you, Galatea. And thank you for all the hard work you pour into the the next generation.
No worries. I didn't see it as an attack at all, just a difference of opinions and conclusions. I do agree that we are to have the mind of Christ for others, BUT, I think it's also important to remember that we are NOT Christ.
If I have 5 loaves and 2 fishes in my pocket, try as I might, and as much as I might want to, I can't feed 5,000 people. If God blesses what I have, maybe I could feed 5 people--and it's up to me to ask for God's wisdom and discernment as to who those 5 people will be. Maybe it's going to be on a first-come, first-serve basis.
But knowing what I believe to be is my particular calling, my first choice would be to give it to those I saw working to serve the masses, and not the masses themselves.
I do understand what you mean about people grumbling as a cover for other problems. Shoot, they're at a soup kitchen and presumably homeless, I'm SURE they're probably having a bad day! But I think that's also an issue that people seldom talk about honestly in ministry. You have to use a lot of discernment and sometimes, you have to distance yourself from some people.
Jesus did not always make Himself available 24/7. Luke 5:16 says, "Jesus often withdrew to lonely places and prayed." He purposely got away from the crowds and made himself UNavailable, and I personally think we are to follow this example as well. But that's just my own conclusion.
Several years ago, I was part of a prayer ministry. It was my first time participating in something like that and I was very wide-eyed and wanted to help everyone. I ran into a couple of problems I had never even anticipated:
* A woman who was going through a situation I was familiar with in my own life. But she wouldn't make the decisions she needed to change. I gave her my phone number and told her to call anytime she needed to talk.
And call she did. Day, night, and every time in between, always talking about the same thing. She didn't want to have to make the hard decisions, she wanted to be told that God was going to work things out and make everything all right without her having to do anything, because, after all, "God works for the good of those who love Him."
I was totally overwhelmed and didn't know what to do. This woman would be calling at 2 AM, and I never said no. I always let her talk. I thought I was doing what God wanted me to do. Eventually an elder noticed that this woman had kind of latched on to me and intervened, and fortunately, this stopped most of the madness. I saw this woman 5 years later--and she was still in the exact same situation, and when I talked to her, she wanted to be told the exact same thing.
Sorry... But I believe God was telling me to move on to the next group of people He had waiting for me.
* Our group once prayed for a man about 10 years older than me. Great man of God, wonderful leader, married for a long time--I'd been in one of his Bible classes and really enjoyed it. But like any of us, he had some struggles in his life and asked for prayer, though he didn't say for what.
I can't explain why, but I had this very strong feeling that he was fighting an addiction to porn--it wasn't a judgment, just something I felt God put on my heart to pray over on his behalf without saying anything--and after our prayer for him, I just said, "You know, I think God wants you to know that whatever you're having problems with, He knows your heart is sincere."
Some time later, this man approached me while I was in the prayer group and asked if he could talk to me, and if I'd pray for him alone, because he said that what I'd said had greatly encouraged him.
I have no doubt that this was a great man of God and that he didn't intend any harm, but I am positive that God was saying to me, "NO." I told the man, "Thank you so much for telling me that--it's really encouraging to me, too. My prayer partner, 'Carol' (and I pulled her a little closer) and I would be happy to pray for you."
Do I think this man had any wrongdoing on his mind at the time? No. But I also believed that God was telling me, "Don't encourage or provide an atmosphere that might contribute towards his getting attached to you."
The experiences I had on this team were invaluable, and I learned, very clearly, that, for me, at least, I need to set very clear boundaries and hold to them, and if anyone tries to overstep them, I seek help from elders or higher authorities.
I know that you and others may feel differently, and I applaud you for wanting to help anyone that crosses your path at anytime, but I also appreciate the fact that I think you and I are also the kind of people who can agree to disagree in a peaceful way.
Much respect to you, Galatea. And thank you for all the hard work you pour into the the next generation.
good morning,
Compliments for this post, very uplifting messages.
From a view with a codependent past life: not having forsaken everyone and everything and my own life also, to follow the Lord; everything the world has to offer almost completely forsaken, still desire to live on a sailboat and sail away to quiet time with the Lord: only realistic if I have forsaken everyone from having first place in my heart, and then facing that if I forsake my own life from being first place, can I afford to have a sailboat. To count the cost of building with God and having sufficient invested to finish, Luke 14:28. There is the option to use the sailboat to serve to the poor, having opportunity to build relationship with those in need of the Lord. Still figuring out to see dimly where God is.
The servant personality has greater need to be loved and most prone to idolatry, looking for love in creature rather than creator. When in a relationship with a leader personality, becomes the pleaser in order to be loved, the leader personality with the lesser need tend to abuse.
While this is simple characteristic of dominant character trait. It defines us until we overcome ourselves. The servant trait is the most gifted trait: Jesus came as a servant first of all. While leader personality appear more whole Jesus sais he did not come for those who are well, but for the sick: those who don't know their need cant be helped.
This is a refreshing place here to know our need and see the Lord as the real servant in us with unselfish motives and us loosing our life with Him. Some times I lose it with leader personalities that are in it for themselves and left to wonder did Jesus lose it with me or was I the only one angry. After forgiving it doesn't mater so much except for where I need to turn my life around, et Him be first Love and follow Him first and not pride of achievement. We need confrontations to solve where we are on the journey and not think we arrived. Much of what I said here has already been said. The most obvious thing is Jesus is slow to anger and I need to be in Him to have that. He did not kill the leader personality but let them kill Him that they may have hope. Congratulation Galatia and many others here for facing our need to grow up in community.
Compliments for this post, very uplifting messages.
From a view with a codependent past life: not having forsaken everyone and everything and my own life also, to follow the Lord; everything the world has to offer almost completely forsaken, still desire to live on a sailboat and sail away to quiet time with the Lord: only realistic if I have forsaken everyone from having first place in my heart, and then facing that if I forsake my own life from being first place, can I afford to have a sailboat. To count the cost of building with God and having sufficient invested to finish, Luke 14:28. There is the option to use the sailboat to serve to the poor, having opportunity to build relationship with those in need of the Lord. Still figuring out to see dimly where God is.
The servant personality has greater need to be loved and most prone to idolatry, looking for love in creature rather than creator. When in a relationship with a leader personality, becomes the pleaser in order to be loved, the leader personality with the lesser need tend to abuse.
While this is simple characteristic of dominant character trait. It defines us until we overcome ourselves. The servant trait is the most gifted trait: Jesus came as a servant first of all. While leader personality appear more whole Jesus sais he did not come for those who are well, but for the sick: those who don't know their need cant be helped.
This is a refreshing place here to know our need and see the Lord as the real servant in us with unselfish motives and us loosing our life with Him. Some times I lose it with leader personalities that are in it for themselves and left to wonder did Jesus lose it with me or was I the only one angry. After forgiving it doesn't mater so much except for where I need to turn my life around, et Him be first Love and follow Him first and not pride of achievement. We need confrontations to solve where we are on the journey and not think we arrived. Much of what I said here has already been said. The most obvious thing is Jesus is slow to anger and I need to be in Him to have that. He did not kill the leader personality but let them kill Him that they may have hope. Congratulation Galatia and many others here for facing our need to grow up in community.
Compliments for this post, uplifting messages.
From a view with a codependent past life: not having forsaken everyone and everything and my own life also, to follow the Lord; everything the world has to offer almost completely forsaken, still desire to live on a sailboat and sail away to quiet time with the Lord: only realistic if I have forsaken everyone from having first place in my heart, and then facing that if I forsake my own life from being first place, can I afford to have a sailboat. To count the cost of building with God and having sufficient invested to finish, Luke 14:28. There is the option to use the sailboat to serve to the poor, having opportunity to build relationship with those in need of the Lord. Still figuring out to see dimly where God is.
The servant personality has greater need to be loved and most prone to idolatry, looking for love in creature rather than creator. When in a relationship with a leader personality, becomes the pleaser in order to be loved, the leader personality with the lesser need tend to abuse.
While this is simple characteristic of dominant character trait. It defines us until we overcome ourselves. The servant trait is the most gifted trait: Jesus came as a servant first of all. While leader personality appear more whole Jesus sais he did not come for those who are well, but for the sick: those who don't know their need cant be helped.
This is a refreshing place here to know our need and see the Lord as the real servant in us with unselfish motives and us loosing our life with Him. Some times I lose it with leader personalities that are in it for themselves and left to wonder did Jesus lose it with me or was I the only one angry. After forgiving it doesn't mater so much except for where I need to turn my life around, et Him be first Love and follow Him first and not pride of achievement. We need confrontations to solve where we are on the journey and not think we arrived. Much of what I said here has already been said. The most obvious thing is Jesus is slow to anger and I need to be in Him to have that. He did not kill the leader personality but let them kill Him that they may have hope. Congratulation Galatia and many others here for facing our need to grow up in community.
From a view with a codependent past life: not having forsaken everyone and everything and my own life also, to follow the Lord; everything the world has to offer almost completely forsaken, still desire to live on a sailboat and sail away to quiet time with the Lord: only realistic if I have forsaken everyone from having first place in my heart, and then facing that if I forsake my own life from being first place, can I afford to have a sailboat. To count the cost of building with God and having sufficient invested to finish, Luke 14:28. There is the option to use the sailboat to serve to the poor, having opportunity to build relationship with those in need of the Lord. Still figuring out to see dimly where God is.
The servant personality has greater need to be loved and most prone to idolatry, looking for love in creature rather than creator. When in a relationship with a leader personality, becomes the pleaser in order to be loved, the leader personality with the lesser need tend to abuse.
While this is simple characteristic of dominant character trait. It defines us until we overcome ourselves. The servant trait is the most gifted trait: Jesus came as a servant first of all. While leader personality appear more whole Jesus sais he did not come for those who are well, but for the sick: those who don't know their need cant be helped.
This is a refreshing place here to know our need and see the Lord as the real servant in us with unselfish motives and us loosing our life with Him. Some times I lose it with leader personalities that are in it for themselves and left to wonder did Jesus lose it with me or was I the only one angry. After forgiving it doesn't mater so much except for where I need to turn my life around, et Him be first Love and follow Him first and not pride of achievement. We need confrontations to solve where we are on the journey and not think we arrived. Much of what I said here has already been said. The most obvious thing is Jesus is slow to anger and I need to be in Him to have that. He did not kill the leader personality but let them kill Him that they may have hope. Congratulation Galatia and many others here for facing our need to grow up in community.
Emotional black hole:
To see what it looks like, type: whirlpool galaxy black hole, on google, there is a crown on the head of the man in the black hole. This picture is millions of light years old, at the speed of light there is no time, and proves the existence of god I n eternity." Is the picture representing Jesus or His counter-fit enemy: the beast that will rise out of the bottomless pit? I can't tel and fortunately we are not saved by solving mysteries but by "Faith that works by Love." At one time was convinced it represented Jesus, since then seen in a dream that it was His enemy, just stating the fax. Jesus took our blame and died and rose, the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. Creation including God going through death and Resurrection, Not a problem for God, having the keys of death and hell, and all power in heaven and earth given to Him as Saviour, and through much trouble we enter His kingdom. The powers that be are greater than we realise so that we can't fix it, but we are all in God's hands as long as we don't take things in our hands again (erasing our name from the book of life). All belongs to God who will separate the sheep from the Goats by how we treat Him in the least of His. Those who reject His Spirit we are separate from, as they are separate from us, though they may cling for advantage, Daniel 13:34. How can we tell whether they are in addiction or beyond hope, we can't and don't need to. We are not here to fix them but to "Work out your own salvation in fear admiration of God and conviction of the Holy Spirit for it is God at work in us both to will and do His good pleasure." We are entering the last battle where we will face the hour and power of darkness for the last time: where the disciples were helpless to follow him in His suffering until empowered by the Holy Spirit. This is where we need to be, praying for the anointing of the Holy Spirit to stand against opposition.
Because it is relevant include this page, not of mine but to the point.
The following is an end-time vision given to an established, seasoned minister of the gospel, Dr. Mark Barclay, and told in his own words. My heart was quickened when I read it and I thought: "This vision needs to be circulated to the body of Christ worldwide for we are seeing the increasing effects of it being unfolded in this hour, although it was given more than 25 years ago."
If you are skeptical of these things I would encourage you to listen to your heart as you read it and allow the Holy Spirit to bear witness with you.
"But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you know all things. ... But the anointing which you have received from Him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. For as the same anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and just as it has taught you, remain in Him" (1 John 2:20, 27)
Here then is the vision told in the minister's own words:
"In 1987 I was a speaker at a camp meeting in Tulsa, Oklahoma. I spoke during the Thursday evening service. Dr. Kenneth E. Hagin spoke during the Friday evening service. I remember that I had just flown in from meetings in Paris, France. I mentioned to my wife how much I would like to stay and hear Dr. Hagin speak. She agreed.
As Dr. Hagin entered the pulpit, he began to pray in tongues. When he started, I started. A moment later, I was caught up in a vision (I was told later that it was probably more like a trance). As I went into this vision, I remember how Dr. Hagin's voice was getting quieter and quieter, until I could hear him no more. It was so quiet all around me I felt like I could hear my own heartbeat.
All of a sudden I felt evil, as if it were surrounding me. Anger rose up in me, and fear tried to get a grip on me. Suddenly, something caught my attention out of my left eye. I turned hard to the left to see what it was. I saw the circumference of the earth, from one edge to the other, and this horrible black, dark cloud was rising up over the horizon. Somehow I knew it would eventually fill the entire earth.
An alarm went off in me, screaming to me to run away from it as fast as I could. I felt like I should scream at it, to stop it in its tracks by using the name of Jesus. I began to rebuke it and started to say, "In the name of Jesus ... " I didn't quite get it out, and the Lord said, "That will do you no good."
"What?" I said.
The Lord said, "Son, you cannot use My name to stop what I prophesied. I am not causing this dark cloud, but I did prophesy it would happen in the last days."
I remember in the vision that I asked the Lord "What is this? What is this evil, tempestuous, dark cloud?"
The Lord said, "This is what I showed My prophet, Isaiah (Isa. 60:1-2). This is every evil thing you can name. It is every demon, it is every disease, it is sickness and bacterial attacks that haven't even been discovered yet. It will cause humans to do things to humans that aren't even human. It is filled with insanity, and many people will lose their mind and their faculties. It is murder, terror, rape, abuse, terrorism, torture and much worse. It is filled with deceptions, heresies, perversions and filth."
Some things the Lord showed me I have not had permission to speak.
I also saw people—many, many people. Some were running into the dark cloud, and some were being sucked into it. It reminded me of this very powerful Shop-vac I have. It will not only suck up the dirt but also my tools, if I don't pay attention.
I saw may people screaming with terror and actually being dragged into this cloud. Though they were refusing it and resisting it with all their strength, they still did not possess the power to stop it.
I was so disturbed when I saw a cross on someone's pocket or jewelry. I remember saying to the Lord, "Who are those people being drawn into this filth and terror, wearing the Christian symbol of the cross? Who are these people, not even resisting? And who are these people, resisting with all their might but it does them no good? They just keep disappearing into this horrible, evil cloud of gross darkness."
The Lord answered me and said, "Oh, these are those who do not have clean hands and a pure heart. They have been warned but ignored the warnings. Some even wanted this filth as their lifestyle."
I asked, "Well, who are these wearing the cross?"
"Oh," the Lord said, "These are the people who claim Me as Savior. Many of them have desired this filth and even fought for it. They make excuses but are not excused. The ones who are resisting thought My prophets were exaggerating and from the old school, and they denied the warnings. Now that this evil has come, they possess little to no power, and certainly not enough to resist and overcome this horrible onslaught of enemy power. Only those with clean hands and a pure heart will be able to totally resist this. It will cover the earth."
There was much more to this, but I began to come out of the vision and once again heard Brother Hagin speaking in tongues from the pulpit.
I asked my wife what had happened, and she said, "Nothing, he hasn't done anything but pray in the spirit."
I began to realize that nobody seemed to see this vision or get caught up into this trance but me. I held my wife's hand a little tighter and began to pray fervently in the spirit. As I did, I got caught up in the spirit again.
Just like before, Brother Hagin's voice got quieter and quieter until it was gone. I found myself alone again. It was so quiet I could hear my own heartbeat. Suddenly, a piercing light hit the corner of my right eye. It was so bright that I instantly shrouded my head with my hands and arms. It reminded me of the intense light that my optometrist uses to examine the back of my eyes. Actually, it was much brighter than that.
Everything within me said, "Turn and look into it. Turn now, and run into it." Yet there was this hesitation because it was so bright it seemed to shine through me. Finally I gave in to it and looked directly at it. With both eyes I saw the depth of this bright cloud. Just like the dark cloud I had seen before, it was coming up over the horizon of the earth. I could tell that it was going to cover the planet. I just knew that I knew that nothing could stop it.
I remembered asking the Lord, "What is this? What is this massive, earth-consuming, bright cloud?"
The Lord answered me and said, "Oh, this is My glory. This is the glory cloud that I showed My prophet Isaiah (Isa. 61:1-2). This is what I promised, that My glory will fill the whole earth."
"Well," I asked, "what is inside the cloud?"
"It is filled with the greatest miracles humans have ever seen. It is filled with healing for every disease, and a cure for every sickness. It is power to overcome sin and filth—to receive the truth and reject error, heresy and doctrines of demons. It is a full manifestation of My Spirit. It is the full anointing of Jesus Christ and more, much more."
He showed me other things that I have no permission to speak at this time.
I saw people in this vision, just like before with the cloud of darkness. Many, many people were running into it and almost frolicking in it. It was like my first response—too bright to behold, and then I wanted to run into it. There were those who seemed to want to pull away from this glory cloud.
"Lord, who will enter into this great glory of God and enjoy this awesome power?" I asked.
"Those who have a pure heart and clean hands," the Lord answered. "They are the ones who will escape the horrible vacuum of the evil, dark cloud and be consumed with My glory. I will require you to tell these things to My people at an appointed time."
Now is that time! As I travel the world over, I see both of these manifestations happening. In fact, I see them beginning to intensify. Sometimes I say that both God and Satan are having a revival among men. We will now see more and more people running to each cloud, causing a great gulf or divide. Could this be the separation of sheep and goats, or the separation of wheat and tares?
I am not a conspiracy-theory person. I am not a fear-based preacher. I am not a prophet of doom. So what I am about to say is none of these. But, I am actually witnessing the spirits of the Antichrist, prepping the people of the earth (including many church goers) for the arrival of the Antichrist himself. I see demons (spirits of the Antichrist) going throughout all the earth. They are slowly re-programming the minds of men (doctrines of demons) to systematically disassemble the work of Christ and disengage the army of God.
You can avoid this, if you choose. If you choose not to, you will suffer the consequences. Please don't do that!" —Dr. Mark Barclay (marktbarclay.com
To see what it looks like, type: whirlpool galaxy black hole, on google, there is a crown on the head of the man in the black hole. This picture is millions of light years old, at the speed of light there is no time, and proves the existence of god I n eternity." Is the picture representing Jesus or His counter-fit enemy: the beast that will rise out of the bottomless pit? I can't tel and fortunately we are not saved by solving mysteries but by "Faith that works by Love." At one time was convinced it represented Jesus, since then seen in a dream that it was His enemy, just stating the fax. Jesus took our blame and died and rose, the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. Creation including God going through death and Resurrection, Not a problem for God, having the keys of death and hell, and all power in heaven and earth given to Him as Saviour, and through much trouble we enter His kingdom. The powers that be are greater than we realise so that we can't fix it, but we are all in God's hands as long as we don't take things in our hands again (erasing our name from the book of life). All belongs to God who will separate the sheep from the Goats by how we treat Him in the least of His. Those who reject His Spirit we are separate from, as they are separate from us, though they may cling for advantage, Daniel 13:34. How can we tell whether they are in addiction or beyond hope, we can't and don't need to. We are not here to fix them but to "Work out your own salvation in fear admiration of God and conviction of the Holy Spirit for it is God at work in us both to will and do His good pleasure." We are entering the last battle where we will face the hour and power of darkness for the last time: where the disciples were helpless to follow him in His suffering until empowered by the Holy Spirit. This is where we need to be, praying for the anointing of the Holy Spirit to stand against opposition.
Because it is relevant include this page, not of mine but to the point.
The following is an end-time vision given to an established, seasoned minister of the gospel, Dr. Mark Barclay, and told in his own words. My heart was quickened when I read it and I thought: "This vision needs to be circulated to the body of Christ worldwide for we are seeing the increasing effects of it being unfolded in this hour, although it was given more than 25 years ago."
If you are skeptical of these things I would encourage you to listen to your heart as you read it and allow the Holy Spirit to bear witness with you.
"But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you know all things. ... But the anointing which you have received from Him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. For as the same anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and just as it has taught you, remain in Him" (1 John 2:20, 27)
Here then is the vision told in the minister's own words:
"In 1987 I was a speaker at a camp meeting in Tulsa, Oklahoma. I spoke during the Thursday evening service. Dr. Kenneth E. Hagin spoke during the Friday evening service. I remember that I had just flown in from meetings in Paris, France. I mentioned to my wife how much I would like to stay and hear Dr. Hagin speak. She agreed.
As Dr. Hagin entered the pulpit, he began to pray in tongues. When he started, I started. A moment later, I was caught up in a vision (I was told later that it was probably more like a trance). As I went into this vision, I remember how Dr. Hagin's voice was getting quieter and quieter, until I could hear him no more. It was so quiet all around me I felt like I could hear my own heartbeat.
All of a sudden I felt evil, as if it were surrounding me. Anger rose up in me, and fear tried to get a grip on me. Suddenly, something caught my attention out of my left eye. I turned hard to the left to see what it was. I saw the circumference of the earth, from one edge to the other, and this horrible black, dark cloud was rising up over the horizon. Somehow I knew it would eventually fill the entire earth.
An alarm went off in me, screaming to me to run away from it as fast as I could. I felt like I should scream at it, to stop it in its tracks by using the name of Jesus. I began to rebuke it and started to say, "In the name of Jesus ... " I didn't quite get it out, and the Lord said, "That will do you no good."
"What?" I said.
The Lord said, "Son, you cannot use My name to stop what I prophesied. I am not causing this dark cloud, but I did prophesy it would happen in the last days."
I remember in the vision that I asked the Lord "What is this? What is this evil, tempestuous, dark cloud?"
The Lord said, "This is what I showed My prophet, Isaiah (Isa. 60:1-2). This is every evil thing you can name. It is every demon, it is every disease, it is sickness and bacterial attacks that haven't even been discovered yet. It will cause humans to do things to humans that aren't even human. It is filled with insanity, and many people will lose their mind and their faculties. It is murder, terror, rape, abuse, terrorism, torture and much worse. It is filled with deceptions, heresies, perversions and filth."
Some things the Lord showed me I have not had permission to speak.
I also saw people—many, many people. Some were running into the dark cloud, and some were being sucked into it. It reminded me of this very powerful Shop-vac I have. It will not only suck up the dirt but also my tools, if I don't pay attention.
I saw may people screaming with terror and actually being dragged into this cloud. Though they were refusing it and resisting it with all their strength, they still did not possess the power to stop it.
I was so disturbed when I saw a cross on someone's pocket or jewelry. I remember saying to the Lord, "Who are those people being drawn into this filth and terror, wearing the Christian symbol of the cross? Who are these people, not even resisting? And who are these people, resisting with all their might but it does them no good? They just keep disappearing into this horrible, evil cloud of gross darkness."
The Lord answered me and said, "Oh, these are those who do not have clean hands and a pure heart. They have been warned but ignored the warnings. Some even wanted this filth as their lifestyle."
I asked, "Well, who are these wearing the cross?"
"Oh," the Lord said, "These are the people who claim Me as Savior. Many of them have desired this filth and even fought for it. They make excuses but are not excused. The ones who are resisting thought My prophets were exaggerating and from the old school, and they denied the warnings. Now that this evil has come, they possess little to no power, and certainly not enough to resist and overcome this horrible onslaught of enemy power. Only those with clean hands and a pure heart will be able to totally resist this. It will cover the earth."
There was much more to this, but I began to come out of the vision and once again heard Brother Hagin speaking in tongues from the pulpit.
I asked my wife what had happened, and she said, "Nothing, he hasn't done anything but pray in the spirit."
I began to realize that nobody seemed to see this vision or get caught up into this trance but me. I held my wife's hand a little tighter and began to pray fervently in the spirit. As I did, I got caught up in the spirit again.
Just like before, Brother Hagin's voice got quieter and quieter until it was gone. I found myself alone again. It was so quiet I could hear my own heartbeat. Suddenly, a piercing light hit the corner of my right eye. It was so bright that I instantly shrouded my head with my hands and arms. It reminded me of the intense light that my optometrist uses to examine the back of my eyes. Actually, it was much brighter than that.
Everything within me said, "Turn and look into it. Turn now, and run into it." Yet there was this hesitation because it was so bright it seemed to shine through me. Finally I gave in to it and looked directly at it. With both eyes I saw the depth of this bright cloud. Just like the dark cloud I had seen before, it was coming up over the horizon of the earth. I could tell that it was going to cover the planet. I just knew that I knew that nothing could stop it.
I remembered asking the Lord, "What is this? What is this massive, earth-consuming, bright cloud?"
The Lord answered me and said, "Oh, this is My glory. This is the glory cloud that I showed My prophet Isaiah (Isa. 61:1-2). This is what I promised, that My glory will fill the whole earth."
"Well," I asked, "what is inside the cloud?"
"It is filled with the greatest miracles humans have ever seen. It is filled with healing for every disease, and a cure for every sickness. It is power to overcome sin and filth—to receive the truth and reject error, heresy and doctrines of demons. It is a full manifestation of My Spirit. It is the full anointing of Jesus Christ and more, much more."
He showed me other things that I have no permission to speak at this time.
I saw people in this vision, just like before with the cloud of darkness. Many, many people were running into it and almost frolicking in it. It was like my first response—too bright to behold, and then I wanted to run into it. There were those who seemed to want to pull away from this glory cloud.
"Lord, who will enter into this great glory of God and enjoy this awesome power?" I asked.
"Those who have a pure heart and clean hands," the Lord answered. "They are the ones who will escape the horrible vacuum of the evil, dark cloud and be consumed with My glory. I will require you to tell these things to My people at an appointed time."
Now is that time! As I travel the world over, I see both of these manifestations happening. In fact, I see them beginning to intensify. Sometimes I say that both God and Satan are having a revival among men. We will now see more and more people running to each cloud, causing a great gulf or divide. Could this be the separation of sheep and goats, or the separation of wheat and tares?
I am not a conspiracy-theory person. I am not a fear-based preacher. I am not a prophet of doom. So what I am about to say is none of these. But, I am actually witnessing the spirits of the Antichrist, prepping the people of the earth (including many church goers) for the arrival of the Antichrist himself. I see demons (spirits of the Antichrist) going throughout all the earth. They are slowly re-programming the minds of men (doctrines of demons) to systematically disassemble the work of Christ and disengage the army of God.
You can avoid this, if you choose. If you choose not to, you will suffer the consequences. Please don't do that!" —Dr. Mark Barclay (marktbarclay.com
G
Hey Galatea,
No worries. I didn't see it as an attack at all, just a difference of opinions and conclusions. I do agree that we are to have the mind of Christ for others, BUT, I think it's also important to remember that we are NOT Christ.
If I have 5 loaves and 2 fishes in my pocket, try as I might, and as much as I might want to, I can't feed 5,000 people. If God blesses what I have, maybe I could feed 5 people--and it's up to me to ask for God's wisdom and discernment as to who those 5 people will be. Maybe it's going to be on a first-come, first-serve basis.
But knowing what I believe to be is my particular calling, my first choice would be to give it to those I saw working to serve the masses, and not the masses themselves.
I do understand what you mean about people grumbling as a cover for other problems. Shoot, they're at a soup kitchen and presumably homeless, I'm SURE they're probably having a bad day! But I think that's also an issue that people seldom talk about honestly in ministry. You have to use a lot of discernment and sometimes, you have to distance yourself from some people.
Jesus did not always make Himself available 24/7. Luke 5:16 says, "Jesus often withdrew to lonely places and prayed." He purposely got away from the crowds and made himself UNavailable, and I personally think we are to follow this example as well. But that's just my own conclusion.
Several years ago, I was part of a prayer ministry. It was my first time participating in something like that and I was very wide-eyed and wanted to help everyone. I ran into a couple of problems I had never even anticipated:
* A woman who was going through a situation I was familiar with in my own life. But she wouldn't make the decisions she needed to change. I gave her my phone number and told her to call anytime she needed to talk.
And call she did. Day, night, and every time in between, always talking about the same thing. She didn't want to have to make the hard decisions, she wanted to be told that God was going to work things out and make everything all right without her having to do anything, because, after all, "God works for the good of those who love Him."
I was totally overwhelmed and didn't know what to do. This woman would be calling at 2 AM, and I never said no. I always let her talk. I thought I was doing what God wanted me to do. Eventually an elder noticed that this woman had kind of latched on to me and intervened, and fortunately, this stopped most of the madness. I saw this woman 5 years later--and she was still in the exact same situation, and when I talked to her, she wanted to be told the exact same thing.
Sorry... But I believe God was telling me to move on to the next group of people He had waiting for me.
* Our group once prayed for a man about 10 years older than me. Great man of God, wonderful leader, married for a long time--I'd been in one of his Bible classes and really enjoyed it. But like any of us, he had some struggles in his life and asked for prayer, though he didn't say for what.
I can't explain why, but I had this very strong feeling that he was fighting an addiction to porn--it wasn't a judgment, just something I felt God put on my heart to pray over on his behalf without saying anything--and after our prayer for him, I just said, "You know, I think God wants you to know that whatever you're having problems with, He knows your heart is sincere."
Some time later, this man approached me while I was in the prayer group and asked if he could talk to me, and if I'd pray for him alone, because he said that what I'd said had greatly encouraged him.
I have no doubt that this was a great man of God and that he didn't intend any harm, but I am positive that God was saying to me, "NO." I told the man, "Thank you so much for telling me that--it's really encouraging to me, too. My prayer partner, 'Carol' (and I pulled her a little closer) and I would be happy to pray for you."
Do I think this man had any wrongdoing on his mind at the time? No. But I also believed that God was telling me, "Don't encourage or provide an atmosphere that might contribute towards his getting attached to you."
The experiences I had on this team were invaluable, and I learned, very clearly, that, for me, at least, I need to set very clear boundaries and hold to them, and if anyone tries to overstep them, I seek help from elders or higher authorities.
I know that you and others may feel differently, and I applaud you for wanting to help anyone that crosses your path at anytime, but I also appreciate the fact that I think you and I are also the kind of people who can agree to disagree in a peaceful way.
Much respect to you, Galatea. And thank you for all the hard work you pour into the the next generation.
No worries. I didn't see it as an attack at all, just a difference of opinions and conclusions. I do agree that we are to have the mind of Christ for others, BUT, I think it's also important to remember that we are NOT Christ.
If I have 5 loaves and 2 fishes in my pocket, try as I might, and as much as I might want to, I can't feed 5,000 people. If God blesses what I have, maybe I could feed 5 people--and it's up to me to ask for God's wisdom and discernment as to who those 5 people will be. Maybe it's going to be on a first-come, first-serve basis.
But knowing what I believe to be is my particular calling, my first choice would be to give it to those I saw working to serve the masses, and not the masses themselves.
I do understand what you mean about people grumbling as a cover for other problems. Shoot, they're at a soup kitchen and presumably homeless, I'm SURE they're probably having a bad day! But I think that's also an issue that people seldom talk about honestly in ministry. You have to use a lot of discernment and sometimes, you have to distance yourself from some people.
Jesus did not always make Himself available 24/7. Luke 5:16 says, "Jesus often withdrew to lonely places and prayed." He purposely got away from the crowds and made himself UNavailable, and I personally think we are to follow this example as well. But that's just my own conclusion.
Several years ago, I was part of a prayer ministry. It was my first time participating in something like that and I was very wide-eyed and wanted to help everyone. I ran into a couple of problems I had never even anticipated:
* A woman who was going through a situation I was familiar with in my own life. But she wouldn't make the decisions she needed to change. I gave her my phone number and told her to call anytime she needed to talk.
And call she did. Day, night, and every time in between, always talking about the same thing. She didn't want to have to make the hard decisions, she wanted to be told that God was going to work things out and make everything all right without her having to do anything, because, after all, "God works for the good of those who love Him."
I was totally overwhelmed and didn't know what to do. This woman would be calling at 2 AM, and I never said no. I always let her talk. I thought I was doing what God wanted me to do. Eventually an elder noticed that this woman had kind of latched on to me and intervened, and fortunately, this stopped most of the madness. I saw this woman 5 years later--and she was still in the exact same situation, and when I talked to her, she wanted to be told the exact same thing.
Sorry... But I believe God was telling me to move on to the next group of people He had waiting for me.
* Our group once prayed for a man about 10 years older than me. Great man of God, wonderful leader, married for a long time--I'd been in one of his Bible classes and really enjoyed it. But like any of us, he had some struggles in his life and asked for prayer, though he didn't say for what.
I can't explain why, but I had this very strong feeling that he was fighting an addiction to porn--it wasn't a judgment, just something I felt God put on my heart to pray over on his behalf without saying anything--and after our prayer for him, I just said, "You know, I think God wants you to know that whatever you're having problems with, He knows your heart is sincere."
Some time later, this man approached me while I was in the prayer group and asked if he could talk to me, and if I'd pray for him alone, because he said that what I'd said had greatly encouraged him.
I have no doubt that this was a great man of God and that he didn't intend any harm, but I am positive that God was saying to me, "NO." I told the man, "Thank you so much for telling me that--it's really encouraging to me, too. My prayer partner, 'Carol' (and I pulled her a little closer) and I would be happy to pray for you."
Do I think this man had any wrongdoing on his mind at the time? No. But I also believed that God was telling me, "Don't encourage or provide an atmosphere that might contribute towards his getting attached to you."
The experiences I had on this team were invaluable, and I learned, very clearly, that, for me, at least, I need to set very clear boundaries and hold to them, and if anyone tries to overstep them, I seek help from elders or higher authorities.
I know that you and others may feel differently, and I applaud you for wanting to help anyone that crosses your path at anytime, but I also appreciate the fact that I think you and I are also the kind of people who can agree to disagree in a peaceful way.
Much respect to you, Galatea. And thank you for all the hard work you pour into the the next generation.
G
That's part of the problem, right here. For the life of me, I never saw where Gaaraieh, Chokmadiel, etc. posted anything so terribly shocking. He is a soul whom Christ died for, and worthy. I don't think he is toxic and was friendly with me. I understand people being banned if they are out of bounds for sexual posts, racist posts, or physically threatening posts- but just annoying people? Why, we'd all be banned if the grounds were annoyance and irritation! With the possible exception of Sweetmorningdew, that is.
I mean, really, is it such a big deal if someone comes here with a theology that is unorthodox and annoys people?
He was not a toxic person.
I mean, really, is it such a big deal if someone comes here with a theology that is unorthodox and annoys people?
He was not a toxic person.
The bible absolutely does tell us to separate from certain kinds of people; and it tells us the reasons why.
The wisdom of Proverbs tells us to:
STAY AWAY FROM
- a fool. Pro 14:7
Why? You will not find knowledge on their lips.
- According to the WISDOM of Proverbs, a fool
- spreads slander. Pro 10:18
- is careless and reckless. Pro 14:16
- despises instruction. Pro 15:5
- is right in his own eyes. Pro 12:15
- brag about their foolishness.
Pro 13:16
- finds pleasure in wicked schemes. Pro 10:23
- has perverse lips. Pro 19:1
- is quarrelsome. Pro 20:3
- talks too much. Pro 10:8,10,14
Pro 14:3, 12:23, 15:2
DO NOT MAKE FRIENDS
- with a hot-tempered person.
Pro 22:24
DO NOT ASSOCIATE WITH
- one easily angered. Pro 22:24
Why? You may learn the their ways and get yourself ensnared.
Pro 22:25
DRIVE OUT
- a mocker. Pro 22:10
Why? Out goes strife; quarrels and insults are ended. Pro 22:10
Mockery can be a form of emotional abuse.
MOCK - Definition from the KJV Dictionary
HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH - People who are lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, without love, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God having a form of godliness but denying its power.
2 Tim 3:2-5
KEEP AWAY FROM EVERY BELIEVER
- who is idle
- disruptive
-does not live according to the teaching you received from us.
2 Thes 3:6
YOU ARE NOT TO ASSOCIATE
- with anyone who claims to be a BELIEVER yet indulges in sexual sin, or is greedy, or worships idols, or is abusive, or is a drunkard, or cheats people. DON'T EVEN EAT WITH SUCH PEOPLE. It isn’t my responsibility to judge outsiders, but it certainly is your responsibility to judge those inside the church who are sinning. God will judge those on the outside; but as the Scriptures say, “You must remove the evil person from among you.”
1 Cor 5: 11-13 NLT
The wisdom of Proverbs tells us to:
STAY AWAY FROM
- a fool. Pro 14:7
Why? You will not find knowledge on their lips.
- According to the WISDOM of Proverbs, a fool
- spreads slander. Pro 10:18
- is careless and reckless. Pro 14:16
- despises instruction. Pro 15:5
- is right in his own eyes. Pro 12:15
- brag about their foolishness.
Pro 13:16
- finds pleasure in wicked schemes. Pro 10:23
- has perverse lips. Pro 19:1
- is quarrelsome. Pro 20:3
- talks too much. Pro 10:8,10,14
Pro 14:3, 12:23, 15:2
DO NOT MAKE FRIENDS
- with a hot-tempered person.
Pro 22:24
DO NOT ASSOCIATE WITH
- one easily angered. Pro 22:24
Why? You may learn the their ways and get yourself ensnared.
Pro 22:25
DRIVE OUT
- a mocker. Pro 22:10
Why? Out goes strife; quarrels and insults are ended. Pro 22:10
Mockery can be a form of emotional abuse.
MOCK - Definition from the KJV Dictionary
HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH - People who are lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, without love, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God having a form of godliness but denying its power.
2 Tim 3:2-5
KEEP AWAY FROM EVERY BELIEVER
- who is idle
- disruptive
-does not live according to the teaching you received from us.
2 Thes 3:6
YOU ARE NOT TO ASSOCIATE
- with anyone who claims to be a BELIEVER yet indulges in sexual sin, or is greedy, or worships idols, or is abusive, or is a drunkard, or cheats people. DON'T EVEN EAT WITH SUCH PEOPLE. It isn’t my responsibility to judge outsiders, but it certainly is your responsibility to judge those inside the church who are sinning. God will judge those on the outside; but as the Scriptures say, “You must remove the evil person from among you.”
1 Cor 5: 11-13 NLT
G
I've read many of his posts, but not all, of course. I know he has some offbeat doctrines. We've even argued about them, but I really see no purpose in banning people at all, except for extremely lewd posts, racist posts, or posts threatening physical harm. Name calling or something seems a petty reason to ban someone.
G
I honestly don't know why anyone is banned, to be perfectly honest. Resurrection, the guy in New Jersey with the Penguin avatar, and another user whose name begins with an S were banned, much to my surprise as I did not read anything overly sexual, racist, or threatening by any of them.
I know the guy in New Jersey was abrasive and harsh about people with liberal politcal leanings, but I never read anything to warrant banning.
I don't know, but perhaps if they are allowed to post here, they may learn something and we may learn something.
I know the guy in New Jersey was abrasive and harsh about people with liberal politcal leanings, but I never read anything to warrant banning.
I don't know, but perhaps if they are allowed to post here, they may learn something and we may learn something.