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Well I could go into this further, but I really don't see a point....it will just go back and forth in a futile manner. It's a bible discussion forum situation. lol.
Here's my chance to start actually obeying Titus 3:9:
"But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.
"
Here's my chance to start actually obeying Titus 3:9:
"But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.
"
You do realize what the implications with this are right?
You are essentially calling out the rest of Christianity that isn't CoC non instrumental, as NOT the church.
I could understand saying something like the Church of Jesus Christ Scientist is not Christian. Or Heaven's Gate, sure we agree, not one of us.
But this claim you make to be the only way to Jesus and therefore the only way to heaven is most certainly a doctrine of man.
Jesus said in Luke 9:49-50, that "Whoever is not against us is for us." I realize that we will not agree on what this means.
As for the claim to Original Christianity, The Syriac Orthodox Church of Antioch claims the status as the most ancient Christian church in the world. According to Saint Luke, "The disciples were first called Christians in Antioch,"
The Church of Antioch played a prominent role in the first three Synods held at Nicaea (325), Constantinople (381), and Ephesus (431), shaping the formulation and early interpretation of Christian doctrines.
And if you believe in the Bible you must believe that the Council that decided the bounds of which books to add and which not to, was Ordained by God. Our Bible came from Christians such as these.
But this isn't even the only church that can trace itself back to the Apostles....
The Gospel was proclaimed in India by Saint Thomas the Apostle. He
landed at Kodungalloor (Crangannore) in Kerala in A.D. 52 and
kindled the light of faith on this land with the baptism of our
forefathers. The ancient Church of Kerala founded by St.
Thomas, despite the multitude of vicissitudes she has encountered,
continues to flourish to this day. The Saint Thomas Christians of
India known also as the "Nazaranees," have maintained the treasure
of their faith with a sense of genuine honor and orthodoxy; at the
same time they have retained the culture, social customs and
decorum of the land, while contributing-their share to the Kerala
and Indian culture.
http://www.ewtn.com/library/homelibr/kerala.txt
There was even an ancient Church in China dating back to 618 A.D. Because Christianity has always existed. It has always expanded, and this Kingdom will continue forever.
Part of my personal wonder with this thread and with the Body of Christ is the fact that I know I am welcomed as a Brother in Christ, no matter where I go in the world because we share the Gospel of Christ. When I hear Orthodox Liturgy sung in harmony straight out of the Bible, I know they are singing of my God and of my people. It is the same of a Baptist church or a Methodist church or a Presbyterian congregation.
We share a Communion, with the rest of Christianity. There is something sacred and special to me, to know that when I take that cup and that bread, and acknowledge the blood of Christ and the Body, which was torn for my sins, I am standing with all those who have gone before me who did the same thing I do, to fulfill the command of Christ to, "Do this in remembrance of Me."
You are essentially calling out the rest of Christianity that isn't CoC non instrumental, as NOT the church.
I could understand saying something like the Church of Jesus Christ Scientist is not Christian. Or Heaven's Gate, sure we agree, not one of us.
But this claim you make to be the only way to Jesus and therefore the only way to heaven is most certainly a doctrine of man.
Jesus said in Luke 9:49-50, that "Whoever is not against us is for us." I realize that we will not agree on what this means.
As for the claim to Original Christianity, The Syriac Orthodox Church of Antioch claims the status as the most ancient Christian church in the world. According to Saint Luke, "The disciples were first called Christians in Antioch,"
The Church of Antioch played a prominent role in the first three Synods held at Nicaea (325), Constantinople (381), and Ephesus (431), shaping the formulation and early interpretation of Christian doctrines.
And if you believe in the Bible you must believe that the Council that decided the bounds of which books to add and which not to, was Ordained by God. Our Bible came from Christians such as these.
But this isn't even the only church that can trace itself back to the Apostles....
The Gospel was proclaimed in India by Saint Thomas the Apostle. He
landed at Kodungalloor (Crangannore) in Kerala in A.D. 52 and
kindled the light of faith on this land with the baptism of our
forefathers. The ancient Church of Kerala founded by St.
Thomas, despite the multitude of vicissitudes she has encountered,
continues to flourish to this day. The Saint Thomas Christians of
India known also as the "Nazaranees," have maintained the treasure
of their faith with a sense of genuine honor and orthodoxy; at the
same time they have retained the culture, social customs and
decorum of the land, while contributing-their share to the Kerala
and Indian culture.
http://www.ewtn.com/library/homelibr/kerala.txt
There was even an ancient Church in China dating back to 618 A.D. Because Christianity has always existed. It has always expanded, and this Kingdom will continue forever.
Part of my personal wonder with this thread and with the Body of Christ is the fact that I know I am welcomed as a Brother in Christ, no matter where I go in the world because we share the Gospel of Christ. When I hear Orthodox Liturgy sung in harmony straight out of the Bible, I know they are singing of my God and of my people. It is the same of a Baptist church or a Methodist church or a Presbyterian congregation.
We share a Communion, with the rest of Christianity. There is something sacred and special to me, to know that when I take that cup and that bread, and acknowledge the blood of Christ and the Body, which was torn for my sins, I am standing with all those who have gone before me who did the same thing I do, to fulfill the command of Christ to, "Do this in remembrance of Me."
That's what God is saying, and as for me I of course agree. Do you think God is ok with people worshipping him their way instead of his way? Do you know that everything you need to know about how to worship is in the New Testament? Why not take one thing at a time, for instance, tell me when the bible says to worship, what day. Next tell me how often you're to take the Lord's supper and go from there and see what it says, then you will know what I've been saying to be true or not.
D
'Fun' fact:
In the Netherlands the COC is an organization for so-called LGBT men and women.'COC' originally stood for 'Cultuur en Ontspanningscentrum' (Center for Culture and Leisure), which was intended as a "cover" name for its real purpose. The organization was founded in 1946...
Nvm, carry on...
In the Netherlands the COC is an organization for so-called LGBT men and women.'COC' originally stood for 'Cultuur en Ontspanningscentrum' (Center for Culture and Leisure), which was intended as a "cover" name for its real purpose. The organization was founded in 1946...
Nvm, carry on...
Neither of these verses indicate that instruments are no longer allowed to be used for worship.
John's vision in Revelation includes instruments. "They held harps given them by God." Revelations 15:2 If musical instruments are used for worship in heaven, how can they be sinful to use on earth? What is the reasoning behind this belief?
We know that everything in the OT was a type or shadow of Christ's redemption in the NT. (Using a priest for intercession, for example, is no longer necessary because Christ intercedes on our behalf. Making an animal sacrifice to atone for our sins is no longer necessary because Christ is our true and perfect atonement.) Realizing this, what do you believe instruments represented in the OT, which would have been fulfilled in the NT making them no longer acceptable?
I guess I am too late to post. The CoC has taken over. Sigh!
But so interesting to hear the denominations and churches people come from.
My grandmother and grandfather were Ukrainian Orthodox, and my grandmother forced my parents to send me to church. The first years, I walked across the alley to a Baptist church, sang in the junior choir, and memorized lots of Bible verses.
We moved and I attended the United Church of Canada, where God was never mentioned. The UCofC was a joining of Methodist and Presbyterian Churches at the turn of the 20th century. It is bemoaned in the later Anne of Green Gables books as heresy, which it was. It was the largest Protestant denomination in Canada, it is now totally apostate and they stand for nothing but themselves. Interesting that none of the Canadian here claimed affiliation with it.
I got saved when I was 26 and attended various denominations of Pentecostal churches, and non-denominational churches where the fun was thick and the meat was thin.
Tried an Alliance church and found no meat but incredible paid professional bar musicians leading the worship. Left pretty quickly! LOL
Finally settled in a Canadian Southern Baptist Church, which was more liberal than the US counterparts, attended their Seminary, with transfer credits from several other conventions seminaries. We all recognized each other. Our seminary had everything from evangelical Anglicans, Lutherans to Mennonites, charismatics and converted NAB students (the last is an inside joke!)
I changed to a North American Baptist Church, which has a lot of raising hands, but no speaking in tongues so far. Lots of retired missionaries, and a real emphasis on missions, helping the poor and discipleship. It has been a great experience.
Sorry if that is too much info. I've just been around the block and back, and seen a lot! (Did I mention the time my cousin almost got me to convert to the RC church?? That was before I was saved!)
But so interesting to hear the denominations and churches people come from.
My grandmother and grandfather were Ukrainian Orthodox, and my grandmother forced my parents to send me to church. The first years, I walked across the alley to a Baptist church, sang in the junior choir, and memorized lots of Bible verses.
We moved and I attended the United Church of Canada, where God was never mentioned. The UCofC was a joining of Methodist and Presbyterian Churches at the turn of the 20th century. It is bemoaned in the later Anne of Green Gables books as heresy, which it was. It was the largest Protestant denomination in Canada, it is now totally apostate and they stand for nothing but themselves. Interesting that none of the Canadian here claimed affiliation with it.
I got saved when I was 26 and attended various denominations of Pentecostal churches, and non-denominational churches where the fun was thick and the meat was thin.
Tried an Alliance church and found no meat but incredible paid professional bar musicians leading the worship. Left pretty quickly! LOL
Finally settled in a Canadian Southern Baptist Church, which was more liberal than the US counterparts, attended their Seminary, with transfer credits from several other conventions seminaries. We all recognized each other. Our seminary had everything from evangelical Anglicans, Lutherans to Mennonites, charismatics and converted NAB students (the last is an inside joke!)
I changed to a North American Baptist Church, which has a lot of raising hands, but no speaking in tongues so far. Lots of retired missionaries, and a real emphasis on missions, helping the poor and discipleship. It has been a great experience.
Sorry if that is too much info. I've just been around the block and back, and seen a lot! (Did I mention the time my cousin almost got me to convert to the RC church?? That was before I was saved!)
While I have never attended myself, I know that the Knox Presbyterian here in town joined with the Knox United and the Metropolitan United. I have a number of high school friends that attend this church. Looking on-line, I think that it is just a popular name for Presbyterian churches in Canada. There is also a Knox Presbyterian Church in Toronto that is for gays!
Here is the intro for the Knox Metropolitan United Church near me.
That kind of says it all, doesn't it?
However, that does not mean that other Knox Presbyterian Churches don't adhere to orthodox doctrines. I guess you would have to see if they have a mission statement. Seems like many of them do not. Why would you, if you don't believe the Bible?
Here is the intro for the Knox Metropolitan United Church near me.
That kind of says it all, doesn't it?
However, that does not mean that other Knox Presbyterian Churches don't adhere to orthodox doctrines. I guess you would have to see if they have a mission statement. Seems like many of them do not. Why would you, if you don't believe the Bible?
The two verses I gave you are commands to sing, so why would there be a need to put down that instruments are no longer used if you have two verses commanding singing only in worship. The word shadow is a word that describes the O.T. well. because now he is wanting a higher level of SPIRITUALITY from his creation, which singing accomplishes. If you have just God and his creation and leave out the man made instruments you now have the highest level of spirituality that can be achieved between man and God. Not just in singing is he looking for a higher level of spirituality, but in everything we do in the N.T..
I only know of one church spoken of in the bible, and that being the Churches of Christ, Romans 16:16 The Church of Christ was established in 33 A.D. and the Baptist church in and around I believe in the 1800's. Do you think that God created two different churches and different ways to worship him? Denominationalism is something God is totally against, unity is what he commands. The reason for so many churches is the fact that man has decided to worship God the way man prefers and call the church whatever they feel like calling it, and that's why you have so many man made false churches in our world, if only man would worship the way God has commanded us to worship him, we wouldn't have this mess.
Guys (and gals) the OP's intent for this thread was just for people to post their denominational affiliation (if any) to satisfy his curiosity about the diversity of the community here at Christian Chat. Even though the OP is no longer with us let's not have this thread degrade into a debate about who's church is "right".
For those wishing to continue the debate about the doctrinal issues of the CoC, Shava has a thread specifically for that purpose here.
For those wishing to continue the debate about the doctrinal issues of the CoC, Shava has a thread specifically for that purpose here.