Are all sexual practices/words "ok" in the context of marriage?

[Ritter]

I mean I understand what the word is normally used for, but I don't have a problem with it. I mean it's normally a sex thing, but if done within marriage it seems fine with me.

Which leads me to wonder, is it? The modern christian answer to most things sexual is "if it is in the context of marriage, go right ahead!"

I understand the logic and the ahem...inclination with which one might approach the subject, but I wonder if things like S&M or crassly saying things like "@#%$ me!" is within the will of God.

With that, I open discussion up to the panel.

 

[AsifinPassing]

Though this is hardly an all inclusive answer, I submit to you Leviticus 18.

Leviticus 18 NIV - Unlawful Sexual Relations - The LORD - Bible Gateway

 

[Jullianna]

Good answer, Reece.

 

[Nautilus]

Though this is hardly an all inclusive answer, I submit to you Leviticus 18.

Leviticus 18 NIV - Unlawful Sexual Relations - The LORD - Bible Gateway

Ok so from this i got no Incest, Beastiality, or Homosexuality. Which ok I agree with you there. It really doesn't answer the OP's point but I do agree even in marriage thos things would be wrong same with including a third party in the act.

As far as BDSM, dirty talk, and the such, I think if both partners are consenting then its ok. I could be wrong and Id love to hear other opinions but I have never seen an injunction against them.

 

[rauleetoe]

Ok so from this i got no Incest, Beastiality, or Homosexuality. Which ok I agree with you there. It really doesn't answer the OP's point but I do agree even in marriage thos things would be wrong same with including a third party in the act.

As far as BDSM, dirty talk, and the such, I think if both partners are consenting then its ok. I could be wrong and Id love to hear other opinions but I have never seen an injunction against them.

I do recall there is a scripture saying the marriage bed is undefiled..that said, if you agree mutually with your spouse to certain acts and both are ok with this then why must one become legalistic and get all old testament? Last time i checked i thought were are under a new and far better covenant through Jesus.
That said, yes..a third party...and other things its common sense within most that we would all/should all agree upon certain things being out of line..And if the person wants to be told dirty things, or agree to something both are consenting to it. I guess this is why some christians become bored in their marriages..its the same ol same ol all the time.
Heaven forbid i ever settle for this upon getting married!

 

[JimJimmers]

While I don't think S&M would be a sin in the marriage context, there could be an underlying reason why you want such things, and it would be worth praying about.

 

[rauleetoe]

While I don't think S&M would be a sin in the marriage context, there could be an underlying reason why you want such things, and it would be worth praying about.

if its agreed upon..then what would it matter to you if the married wife and husband consent to it?
I do not think it really concerns me,you or anyone else but the two consenting adults..this is where we see religion getting the best of us, and it no longer is a freedom of christianity, but oppressing religion imho.
If you choose to not entertain in certain activities in the bedroom with your wife,and she agrees..congratulations! You too have agreed upon it,and you will have things in your bedroom the way that you and her agree upon..shouldn't be your kids business, your neighbors..'christian' friends business..heck not even your pastor's business. You are married to your wife..not to them.
think about it..

 

[JimJimmers]

It is no one else's business, I never suggested otherwise. It is only the business of you, your spouse and God. I only mentioned the prayer because if you feel unsure about it, there could be an underlying cause, and it would be worth praying about.

Be anxious for nothing, but in everything by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known to God.

 

[rauleetoe]

It is no one else's business, I never suggested otherwise. It is only the business of you, your spouse and God. I only mentioned the prayer because if you feel unsure about it, there could be an underlying cause, and it would be worth praying about.

Be anxious for nothing, but in everything by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known to God.

perhaps..i just made the assumption that they both liked it..and that's fine with me.
I have my likes, dislikes..regarding other things..so I am one who tries to believe/think the best about those kinda things as i would hate to believe once again that sex is this dirty thing..when God clearly made it a beautifull thing within the context of a married woman and man..

 

[AsifinPassing]

While I again reiterate that my prior post, nor this current, are mutually exclusive nor collectively exhaustive, I would also like to submit Ephesians 5.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ephesians+5&version=NIV

Now, while I see the view point of consent, I believe the issue is not willingness. The issue at hand hold tonwhat is or is not sin in the context of marital relations. Now, establishing such, I believe the essence of sin is that which is counter to the Will and Nature of God.

Thus, on the topic of fetishes, which Ritter stared this post in response to, regardless of whether or not they are consensual, do they adhere to the Nature and Will of God?

If this answer is no, I would like to present that the issue in question is then sin, and sin separates us from God. So, let us do our best to make as the most of that which we know, no longer conforming to the ways of this world, but being transformed by the renewing of our minds.

Now, I will add, that not all sin is generally applicable. For me, watching TV, anime, and other such things, often separates (or distances) me from God. Thus, for me, such things are sin. Now, there are those who are not effected so, and thus, for them they are not sin. In this type of instance, sin is differentiable.

All that being said, we are called to do everything as unto the glory of God. So, while I do know, admit, and accept that we are often sinful and don't do as we ought, I do believe we should try not to be. I believe that Christ, through the power of His Holy Spirit, gives us the ability to surrender unto Him all things, that upon full identification with Christ, we may become perfect even in this life.

This is my belief personally, and one of the greater beliefs of the Methodist tradition to which I belong. I ask you, fellow CCers, Christians, and friends, in all our actions, choices, and even theories to submit first to love, then to truth, and finally (hopefully) to wisdom.

 

[LightningClap0002]

With the recent sensational OT irrelevancy argument, I want to try and phrase this carefully. With respect to specific OT laws, I do believe that after Christ's resurrection, many things changed. As Paul says, "not all things are beneficial."

When it comes to S&M within a marriage, I think a lot of it depends on the mindset of the partners entering into it. The concept of pain as pleasure bothers me philosophically. Specifically seeking pleasure for the sake of pleasure has always bothered me. It seems very worldly and not very holy. That said, there are other aspects that may be more beneficial. A nearly insane amount of trust is often required. To me, this seems to go beyond normal intimacy even and could strengthen the bond between the man and his wife (assuming of course both partake with the same spirit). I think at this level God can and will convict someone if they don't have a right spirit...if they are truly seeking Him in their marriage. Is it worth walking so close to the fire?

As for what you say while having sex... I think there are some truly insulting things that porn and the media have taught people is "normal." I don't know this first hand, but many "porn awareness" sites have such testimonials. I don't think fbombs are such a terrible thing, but name calling, some role playing, etc seem troublesome to me. In the end, is it really beneficial to be talking to your wife that way? Is it God honoring?

In the end, whether both partners "like it" or not doesn't seem to be the appropriate metric for its righteousness. If it is beneficial to the marriage, and to their collective relationship with God, then I think it's ok. I don't see it as beneficial myself and think there are other things that can be pursued instead.

 

[LightningClap0002]

While I again reiterate that my prior post, nor this current, are mutually exclusive nor collectively exhaustive, I would also like to submit Ephesians 5.

Ephesians 5 NIV - Follow God

Now, while I see the view point of consent, I believe the issue is not willingness. The issue at hand hold tonwhat is or is not sin in the context of marital relations. Now, establishing such, I believe the essence of sin is that which is counter to the Will and Nature of God.

Thus, on the topic of fetishes, which Ritter stared this post in response to, regardless of whether or not they are consensual, do they adhere to the Nature and Will of God?

If this answer is no, I would like to present that the issue in question is then sin, and sin separates us from God. So, let us do our best to make as the most of that which we know, no longer conforming to the ways of this world, but being transformed by the renewing of our minds.

Now, I will add, that not all sin is generally applicable. For me, watching TV, anime, and other such things, often separates (or distances) me from God. Thus, for me, such things are sin. Now, there are those who are not effected so, and thus, for them they are not sin. In this type of instance, sin is differentiable.

All that being said, we are called to do everything as unto the glory of God. So, while I do know, admit, and accept that we are often sinful and don't do as we ought, I do believe we should try not to be. I believe that Christ, through the power of His Holy Spirit, gives us the ability to surrender unto Him all things, that upon full identification with Christ, we may become perfect even in this life.

This is my belief personally, and one of the greater beliefs of the Methodist tradition to which I belong. I ask you, fellow CCers, Christians, and friends, in all our actions, choices, and even theories to submit first to love, then to truth, and finally (hopefully) to wisdom.

Though i disagree with the wording of "for me, such things are sin" and "differentiable sin", I think the righteousness of the rest of your post can cover over this little thing.

Consenting is not enough to determine propriety, holiness, or righteousness of these, or any, sexual actions.

 

[Ritter]

With the recent sensational OT irrelevancy argument, I want to try and phrase this carefully. With respect to specific OT laws, I do believe that after Christ's resurrection, many things changed. As Paul says, "not all things are beneficial."

When it comes to S&M within a marriage, I think a lot of it depends on the mindset of the partners entering into it. The concept of pain as pleasure bothers me philosophically. Specifically seeking pleasure for the sake of pleasure has always bothered me. It seems very worldly and not very holy. That said, there are other aspects that may be more beneficial. A nearly insane amount of trust is often required. To me, this seems to go beyond normal intimacy even and could strengthen the bond between the man and his wife (assuming of course both partake with the same spirit). I think at this level God can and will convict someone if they don't have a right spirit...if they are truly seeking Him in their marriage. Is it worth walking so close to the fire?

As for what you say while having sex... I think there are some truly insulting things that porn and the media have taught people is "normal." I don't know this first hand, but many "porn awareness" sites have such testimonials. I don't think fbombs are such a terrible thing, but name calling, some role playing, etc seem troublesome to me. In the end, is it really beneficial to be talking to your wife that way? Is it God honoring?

In the end, whether both partners "like it" or not doesn't seem to be the appropriate metric for its righteousness. If it is beneficial to the marriage, and to their collective relationship with God, then I think it's ok. I don't see it as beneficial myself and think there are other things that can be pursued instead.

And LightingClap0002 once again shows all why I regard him as one of the most enlightening of CC's members.

I glean two very important counter-points from this I was going to make myself for purposes of shepherding the discussion.

1. Deliverance from sin through Christ does not somehow relieve us of the need to behave righteously and purely.

2. The argument that if two married, consenting adults do it behind closed doors and find pleasure in it, it is "ok" simply doesn't fly. It's almost as though someone ripped a sentence out of a book written by Ayn Rand and injected the word "marriage" in some convenient place so as to make something appear Christian.

I will coin a term tonight, ladies and gentlemen: marital hedonism. That is precisely what such thinking is.

 

[LightningClap0002]

And LightingClap0002 once again shows all why I regard him as one of the most enlightening of CC's members.

I glean two very important counter-points from this I was going to make myself for purposes of shepherding the discussion.

1. Deliverance from sin through Christ does not somehow relieve us of the need to behave righteously and purely.

2. The argument that if two married, consenting adults do it behind closed doors and find pleasure in it, it is "ok" simply doesn't fly. It's almost as though someone ripped a sentence out of a book written by Ayn Rand and injected the word "marriage" in some convenient place so as to make something appear Christian.

I will coin a term tonight, ladies and gentlemen: marital hedonism. That is precisely what such thinking is.

Marital Hedonism... Exactly what was "philosohpically" going through my mind. I think maybe I will have to use that as more of these sort of questions come up in the future!

 

[Nautilus]

I'll be honest I don't fully understand the term marital hedonism though I'm sure I fall under it, due to some fetishes/fantasies I have for afer marriage which admittedly I am struggling against being single whoever have been succeeding against. there are some things I do look for as far as sexual compability-wise that are not mentioned in scripture on way or another, so would those be wrong or are they part of the whole marriage covenant meaning no an issue?

 

[Ritter]

I'll be honest I don't fully understand the term marital hedonism though I'm sure I fall under it, due to some fetishes/fantasies I have for afer marriage which admittedly I am struggling against being single whoever have been succeeding against. there are some things I do look for as far as sexual compability-wise that are not mentioned in scripture on way or another, so would those be wrong or are they part of the whole marriage covenant meaning no an issue?

I truly don't know, hence why I'm the one asking the questions. I think there are some that would not. Marital Hedonism would suggest that everything pursued in the marriage bed is okay because the raw pursuit of pleasure is the highest goal, not the glorification of God and His purposes.

Categorizing and judging each possible act would be silly. My point is, thinking globally, almost every bad thing we see is a mutilation or perversion of what God intends. Good things deteriorate or are misused. I think that the same thing could happen in the marriage bed. There must be things that even married couples do that would grieve the Holy Spirit.

 

[Nautilus]

I dont know if there is a hard and fast list then, rather it depends on the couple

 

[Ritter]

It would be a stronger/weaker brother kind of deal, I'd imagine, but there would be some sort of objective standard, I think. You couldn't really put it in a list format.

 

[Ritter]

Partially because there are so many possibilities.

I really wish people approached the rest of life with the same imagination they approach sexuality.

 

[Jullianna]

I didn't find any scriptural limitations beyond those set out above. I do think the parameters would be guided by the scriptural instruction to cherish wives and respect husbands, and that nothing be injurious physically or emotionally.

Intimacy and trust are so very important within the marital sexual relationship. That's not something that develops overnight. It's progressive and patient, especially when you are talking about those who enter into marriage as virgins. Physical/emotional trauma inflicted in the initial stages can have lasting effects upon the sexual aspect of a marital relationship.

When you trust your spouse completely, this allows an incredible amount of intimacy into the relationship to the point where you should be able to reasonably discuss these things. Take your time. Get to know one another.

I want to be very real here, but tactful at the same time. How about this: If you are dealing with someone who is either far less sexually experienced than you or if both of you are virgins, start with a floor routine and allow the intimacy, trust and excitement to build. You can move on to the vaults, uneven bars and show off your 10 point landing soon enough. A healthy marital sex life is worth the time, love, patience and, YES, FUN, you invest in it.

I think people get far too uptight and worry about all of this far too much and put far too much pressure on themselves and their partners. This can do a lot of damage in the long run.

A healthy sex life is extremely important within a marriage. Situations are going to arise and adaptability becomes extremely important. I've heard a lot of friends make declarations about never doing certain sexual things prior to marriage who have changed their minds not long after, as they matured sexually.