John 13:34-35

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J

Jullianna

Guest
#1
#1
Jesus said:
“A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.”

If we speak of being so very loving and forgiving of a dying world to show them Christ, yet are rude and inconsiderate to our siblings in Christ, what does that say to the world in light of Jesus' command?
 
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G

GRA

Guest
#2
#2
Jullianna said:
Jesus said:
“A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.”

If we speak of being so very loving and forgiving of a dying world to show them Christ, yet are rude and inconsiderate to our siblings in Christ, what does that say to the world in light of Jesus' command?
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It says "we are no different than the world"...

:eek: :eek: :( ("it is a shame")

.
 
P

Perk

Guest
#3
#3
Its pretty evident that the world will be wrapped in ignorance, albeit the truth is as clear as crystal.
 
zeroturbulence

zeroturbulence

Senior Member
#4
Aug 2, 2009
24,584
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#4
Jullianna said:
Jesus said:
“A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.”

If we speak of being so very loving and forgiving of a dying world to show them Christ, yet are rude and inconsiderate to our siblings in Christ, what does that say to the world in light of Jesus' command?
Click to expand...
"I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." - Mahatma Ghandi
 
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Red33

Red33

Banned
#5
Jun 24, 2010
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#5
Let's define the love of God and how we are to love our siblings in light of that command and let's see just how much we measure up as believers in the love of God. You brought out the command to love one another as the measuring rod which the world will know that we are His disciples. Let's really talk about the love of God without compromise and lay it out on the table, not just in terms of the letter but in terms of the Spirit that gives life. Some of us might find that we really don't like certain aspects of God's love (agape) and even react to it when it is being practiced in the Spirit according to (Rom 5:5) and we should talk about that in the grace of God.

There are aspects of the love of God that involve discernment and things are said with that discernment and are misunderstood by others as being judgmental and unkind. The love of God needs to be comprehended with other believers (Eph 3:18), and we as a body must be built up and edified in that love through the word and doctrine that comes from a pastor-teacher (Eph 4:11-16). There are things that believers ascribe to the love of God that have nothing to do with God's love, let's talk about those, so that we can have good discernment. One of the easiest things that any believer can do is violate the love of God and not realize what they have done. There are many aspects to the love of God in (1Cor 13) and in the scriptures...

Look at (Phil 1:9) and see what Paul prayed for concerning the believers at Phillipi...

KJV 9 And this I pray, that your love may abound (excel and exceed) yet more and more in knowledge and in all judgment;
10 That ye may approve things that are excellent; that ye may be sincere and without offense till the day of Christ.

AMP 9 And this I pray: that your love may abound yet more and more and extend to its fullest development in knowledge and all keen insight [that your love may display itself in greater depth of acquaintance and more comprehensive discernment],
10 So that you may surely learn to sense what is vital, and approve and prize what is excellent and of real value [recognizing the highest and the best, and distinguishing the moral differences], and that you may be untainted and pure and unerring and blameless [so that with hearts sincere and certain and unsullied, you may approach] the day of Christ [not stumbling nor causing others to stumble].

That's a mouthful and its all about growing and abounding in the love of God as mature believers toward one another.
 
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J

Jullianna

Guest
#6
#6
Red33 said:
Let's define the love of God and how we are to love our siblings in light of that command and let's see just how much we measure up as believers in the love of God. You brought out the command to love one another as the measuring rod which the world will know that we are His disciples. Let's really talk about the love of God without compromise and lay it out on the table, not just in terms of the letter but in terms of the Spirit that gives life. Some of us might find that we really don't like certain aspects of God's love (agape) and even react to it when it is being practiced in the Spirit according to (Rom 5:5) and we should talk about that in the grace of God.

There are aspects of the love of God that involve discernment and things are said with that discernment and are misunderstood by others as being judgmental and unkind. The love of God needs to be comprehended with other believers (Eph 3:18), and we as a body must be built up and edified in that love through the word and doctrine that comes from a pastor-teacher (Eph 4:11-16). There are things that believers ascribe to the love of God that have nothing to do with God's love, let's talk about those, so that we can have good discernment. One of the easiest things that any believer can do is violate the love of God and not realize what they have done. There are many aspects to the love of God in (1Cor 13) and in the scriptures...

Look at (Phil 1:9) and see what Paul prayed for concerning the believers at Phillipi...

KJV 9 And this I pray, that your love may abound (excel and exceed) yet more and more in knowledge and in all judgment;
10 That ye may approve things that are excellent; that ye may be sincere and without offense till the day of Christ.

AMP 9 And this I pray: that your love may abound yet more and more and extend to its fullest development in knowledge and all keen insight [that your love may display itself in greater depth of acquaintance and more comprehensive discernment],
10 So that you may surely learn to sense what is vital, and approve and prize what is excellent and of real value [recognizing the highest and the best, and distinguishing the moral differences], and that you may be untainted and pure and unerring and blameless [so that with hearts sincere and certain and unsullied, you may approach] the day of Christ [not stumbling nor causing others to stumble].

That's a mouthful and its all about growing and abounding in the love of God as mature believers toward one another.
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Thank you, Red, but my question is, what does it say to unbelievers when we do NOT show the love of Christ to one another?
 
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Red33

Red33

Banned
#7
Jun 24, 2010
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#7
zeroturbulence said:
"I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." - Mahatma Ghandi
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Does Ghandi like the Christ of the OT that heard the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah and destroyed the cities with fire and brimstone but spared righteous Lot and those that did not turn back? Ghandi may like certain descent and moral aspects of Christ but does he really know Christ and the power of His resurrection or is he going to remain in unbelief because of what he sees going on the Christian community. Ghandi was too busy judging Christ through the wretchedness of those Christ has called and redeemed and is transforming with His abounding grace through the good work that He has promised to perform until the day of redemption (Phil 1:6). Have the eyes of Ghandi been opened by the Lord or is he still living as an enlightened blind man to the things of God?

Am I being unloving or am I illustrating the love of God in discernment and judgment?
 
Red33

Red33

Banned
#8
Jun 24, 2010
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#8
Jullianna said:
Thank you, Red, but my question is, what does it say to unbelievers when we do NOT show the love of Christ to one another?
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Do we really know and operate in the love of God toward one another to even be able to access and ask that question? We have a long way to go and being concerned about what others think, who are in the world, is misplaced. Let's go after the love of God and be filled with the Spirit and we won't have to be concerned with what anyone thinks because we will be operating in the love of God no matter what it appears like to others.
 
J

Jullianna

Guest
#9
#9
It mattered enough to Jesus for Him to give us this command, so it matters to me. :) But thanks again!
 
J

Jullianna

Guest
#10
#10
I agreed that this is what we SHOULD do and how we SHOULD be living, but this thread is about the impact it has when we are disobedient in this regard, not only upon the world, but upon one another.
 
zeroturbulence

zeroturbulence

Senior Member
#11
Aug 2, 2009
24,584
4,271
113
#11
Red33 said:
Does Ghandi like the Christ of the OT that heard the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah and destroyed the cities with fire and brimstone but spared righteous Lot and those that did not turn back? Ghandi may like certain descent and moral aspects of Christ but does he really know Christ and the power of His resurrection or is he going to remain in unbelief because of what he sees going on the Christian community. Ghandi was too busy judging Christ through the wretchedness of those Christ has called and redeemed and is transforming with His abounding grace through the good work that He has promised to perform until the day of redemption (Phil 1:6). Have the eyes of Ghandi been opened by the Lord or is he still living as an enlightened blind man to the things of God?

Am I being unloving or am I illustrating the love of God in discernment and judgment?
Click to expand...
Well that sure didn't sound like love to me.
 
zeroturbulence

zeroturbulence

Senior Member
#12
Aug 2, 2009
24,584
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#12
Look, it doesn't matter if Ghandi said it or if average Joe said it. The fact is that chrsitians have a reputation for being rude and judgemental. Many of them use scripture to belittle and harass people and to feed their own sense of pride and self-righteousness.
 
Red33

Red33

Banned
#13
Jun 24, 2010
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#13
zeroturbulence said:
Look, it doesn't matter if Ghandi said it or if average Joe said it. The fact is that chrsitians have a reputation for being rude and judgemental. Many of them use scripture to belittle and harass people and to feed their own sense of pride and self-righteousness.
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What is the impact on the world according to this passage that comes from the lips of Christ in (Mt 5:43-48)...

43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?
47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?
48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
 
J

Jullianna

Guest
#14
#14
That is a great passage too, Red, but how does it show us the impact not showing Christ to one another that we are commanded to show in the subject text has on unbelievers? What is the application of that scripture to the subject of this thread?
 
J

Jullianna

Guest
#15
#15
THIS is impact:


42 They devoted themselves to the apostles’ teaching and to fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer. 43 Everyone was filled with awe at the many wonders and signs performed by the apostles. 44 All the believers were together and had everything in common. 45 They sold property and possessions to give to anyone who had need. 46 Every day they continued to meet together in the temple courts. They broke bread in their homes and ate together with glad and sincere hearts, 47 praising God and enjoying the favor of all the people. And the Lord added to their number daily those who were being saved.

When the Church lives out His love, His way, it not only impacts the Body of Christ, but unbelievers as well. It makes them WANT what we have. It makes us different. It gives people a reason to want to turn away from the garbage of this world.

We need to remember the depths He rescued us from, and adopt the attitude of service and loving consideration for others discussed earlier in John 13. It would have tremendous impact.

Jesus doesn't waste words. When He says something, there's a reason. Oftentimes MANY reasons in few words. When we hold those reasons in our hearts, it spurs us to do as He commands.

 
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Red33

Red33

Banned
#16
Jun 24, 2010
3,822
19
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#16
Jullianna said:
THIS is impact:


42 They devoted themselves to the apostles’ teaching and to fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer. 43 Everyone was filled with awe at the many wonders and signs performed by the apostles. 44 All the believers were together and had everything in common. 45 They sold property and possessions to give to anyone who had need. 46 Every day they continued to meet together in the temple courts. They broke bread in their homes and ate together with glad and sincere hearts, 47 praising God and enjoying the favor of all the people. And the Lord added to their number daily those who were being saved.

When the Church lives out His love, His way, it not only impacts the Body of Christ, but unbelievers as well. It makes them WANT what we have. It makes us different. It gives people a reason to want to turn away from the garbage of this world.

We need to remember the depths He rescued us from, and adopt the attitude of service and loving consideration for others discussed earlier in John 13. It would have tremendous impact.

Jesus doesn't waste words. When He says something, there's a reason. Oftentimes MANY reasons in few words. When we hold those reasons in our hearts, it spurs us to do as He commands.
Click to expand...
This happened at the inception of the church and God was pouring out the Spirit and much grace upon both Jew and Gentile. God increased the church with great numbers in the beginning to make an impact upon the people concerning Christ. These were new converts and were responding to the word and doctrine and the fellowship they embraced and it is a beautiful picture of the unity and oneness they had in the faith and love of God as a new body of believers and that should never be discounted in any way.

The church at Ephesus had this same unity in the love of God but had a relapse and left their first love and was exhorted to go back and do the first works of that love. The church at Ephesus had been tried and tested and was found wanting leaving their first love. Those believer you mentioned in (Acts 2) were very fervent and feared God because of the wonders ans signs done by the apostles (v.43). They had not been tested in their faith and they enjoyed the new found liberty they had in Christ. There is no greater testimony then a transformed life where grace has been imparted to the heart of the believer.

Let me ask you this. If a friend of yours believed upon the Lord and you could see the transformation in their life, you would be thankful and give the glory to God for His mercy and grace. If that same friend was suddenly overtaken by sin or a critical spirit that lasted for a year and the Lord delivered and restored them according to His grace, would not the glory of God be greater in your eyes then at the first? Do not we grow grace (2Pt 3:18) and are we not changed from glory to glory as by the Spirit of the Lord (2Cor 3:18)? If we see a brother overtaken by any fault, even through a lack of love, shall we not first in our heart yearn for their restoration and shall not the testimony of the grace of God in restoring them be more glorious in the eyes of those who believe not?

Remember that these are the ones that God has called and the eternal purpose for calling them...

1Cor 1:23-31
23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.
25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:
27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:
29 That no flesh should glory in his presence.
30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:
31 That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.
 
J

Jullianna

Guest
#17
#17
Red33 said:
This happened at the inception of the church and God was pouring out the Spirit and much grace upon both Jew and Gentile. God increased the church with great numbers in the beginning to make an impact upon the people concerning Christ. These were new converts and were responding to the word and doctrine and the fellowship they embraced and it is a beautiful picture of the unity and oneness they had in the faith and love of God as a new body of believers and that should never be discounted in any way.

The church at Ephesus had this same unity in the love of God but had a relapse and left their first love and was exhorted to go back and do the first works of that love. The church at Ephesus had been tried and tested and was found wanting leaving their first love. Those believer you mentioned in (Acts 2) were very fervent and feared God because of the wonders ans signs done by the apostles (v.43). They had not been tested in their faith and they enjoyed the new found liberty they had in Christ. There is no greater testimony then a transformed life where grace has been imparted to the heart of the believer.

Let me ask you this. If a friend of yours believed upon the Lord and you could see the transformation in their life, you would be thankful and give the glory to God for His mercy and grace. If that same friend was suddenly overtaken by sin or a critical spirit that lasted for a year and the Lord delivered and restored them according to His grace, would not the glory of God be greater in your eyes then at the first? Do not we grow grace (2Pt 3:18) and are we not changed from glory to glory as by the Spirit of the Lord (2Cor 3:18)? If we see a brother overtaken by any fault, even through a lack of love, shall we not first in our heart yearn for their restoration and shall not the testimony of the grace of God in restoring them be more glorious in the eyes of those who believe not?

Remember that these are the ones that God has called and the eternal purpose for calling them...

1Cor 1:23-31
23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.
25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:
27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:
29 That no flesh should glory in his presence.
30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:
31 That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.
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Still not sure how this is applicable to the topic. We are not to be rude and inconsiderate to siblings in Christ who stumble. We are to share truth with them IN LOVE, not with a critical, spiteful spirit.

If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. 1 Corinthians 13:1

Which would impact unbelievers more, seeing us lovingly restore one who stumbles or being nasty to them? How are we different from the world when we do that?
 
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G

GRA

Guest
#18
#18
Jullianna said:
Jesus said:
“A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.”

If we speak of being so very loving and forgiving of a dying world to show them Christ, yet are rude and inconsiderate to our siblings in Christ, what does that say to the world in light of Jesus' command?
Click to expand...
Red33 said:
There are aspects of the love of God that involve discernment and things are said with that discernment and are misunderstood by others as being judgmental and unkind.
Click to expand...
Red33:

I understand what you are saying - and certainly a good point to make in the proper context...

However, the fact still remains -- Jullianna's question - "by definition and grammar" - is referring to Christians who are actually being rude and inconsiderate - from the heart of that person, not the interpretation of the 'target' person...

:)

.
 
J

Jullianna

Guest
#19
#19
I can't think of any circumstance where God would approve of me being willfully hateful to another of His kids. He loves them as much as He does me, even when we make mistakes.
 
Red33

Red33

Banned
#20
Jun 24, 2010
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#20
Jullianna said:
I can't think of any circumstance where God would approve of me being willfully hateful to another of His kids. He loves them as much as He does me, even when we make mistakes.
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God does not approve it but He knows how much we need to grow in Him. If, as a believer, I have a problem with jealousy, I just might be resentful and hateful to those I am jealous of because they have something I don't have but want very badly. It might be that someone is being used of God and they are having much honor bestowed upon them and instead of rejoicing in that with them, I become inwardly jealous because I want to be honored and I say things about them behind their back that is not edifying. So God uses that situation to reveal a form of jealousy in my heart that covets the honor that others are receiving in the body of Christ.

God wants to deal with that in my life so He uses others to bring it out in me, so that I have to go to Him and lay it out on the table (or at the foot of the cross), telling God that it is an ugly thing, that I don't like it and don't want it in my life because it violates the love of God and makes me feel terrible as it breaks fellowship with other believers in His body. I have to admit to God that I was hateful and callous and without strength to overcome it. So God deals with that area of jealousy and uses a precious believer in the process so that He can get all the glory in giving me grace and working death in me so that I can be crucified to my flesh and have victory and rejoice the next time someone is honored.
 
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