Who's Fault is It?

[violakat]

I read an interesting article about a girl who was threatened to be shot simply because she refused to date someone. All the kids at her school blamed her for what happened, claiming that her selfishness put them all in danger. The author also mentioned that in a criminal justice course she took, another situation was mentioned, this time where the young man pulled out a gun on a girl in front of the whole class and threatened to shoot her unless she went out with him, because she had said no the previous day. Only one person in the whole class said it was the guy's fault. Everyone else said it was the girl's fault. One of the reasons given is that when someone hits another person, and the second person hits back, the first person is the guilty one for starting the whole thing. They went on to claim that she started it simply by saying no, so she was at fault for everything that happened.

So my question is this, in your part of the world, how do men and women view crimes against women, in similar situations?

For me, I have never seen it where a woman says no to a date, that it's automatically her fault if she's killed. However I do know that women are often made the guilty party when raped. Also, I've seen comments where someone who's abused, people have a tendency to look down on her, because she doesn't leave, no knowing the power an abuser could have.

Taking it one step further (and getting slightly off topic,) I know that, men are made fun of when they are abused themselves, and quite often not taken seriously, as they are seen to be the more physically stronger and should be able to protect themselves or just shrug it all off. Yet, we should take this just as seriously.

 

[MollyConnor]

The guy chose to take the gun and threaten the students...so it's his fault, not hers. This is ridiculous! A woman should be able to say no to anyone she wants to and men should be able to do the same. You can't force someone to like you or want to go out with you.

Plus if this guy is that unstable as to point a gun at a girl who said no for a date...can you imagine what else he's willing to do on that date with her?

This makes me sad, poor girl.

 

[Grace-Like-Rain]

Wow, that's crazy! Did she turn him down in a particularly cruel way or something? I am baffled as to why anyone would think it was her fault that he responded by threatening to shoot her.

 

[RickyZ]

God says that in the end, that which is right will be seen as wrong and vice-versa. It's not coming soon, people, it's here! And this kind of insanity - which now permeates the whole world - proves it.

 

[Jilly81]

Where did that girl live, ViolaKat? I'd be upset if she DID give in and date him. I don't blame her if she felt scared and did it anyway, but w/ witnesses it shouldn't be hard to file a police report and hopefully get him locked up. He'd probably kill a girl who left him, too; not just one who wouldn't date him, so it'd still be pointless to give in.


Also, anyone who would argue that it was her fault should ALSO be locked up. In fact, make them share a cell with the gun-toting guy. Maybe then they'd change their opinion.

 

[violakat]

Article didn't say where she lived. Much less who the girl was.

Where did that girl live, ViolaKat? I'd be upset if she DID give in and date him. I don't blame her if she felt scared and did it anyway, but w/ witnesses it shouldn't be hard to file a police report and hopefully get him locked up. He'd probably kill a girl who left him, too; not just one who wouldn't date him, so it'd still be pointless to give in.


Also, anyone who would argue that it was her fault should ALSO be locked up. In fact, make them share a cell with the gun-toting guy. Maybe then they'd change their opinion.

 

[Lynx]

I would be interested to know why they considered her to blame. If that many people agreed on something that (on the face of it) is so patently ludicrous, you gotta think there's a reason there.

 

[seoulsearch]

I'd be interested in knowing more about the entire background of the people involved before being able to make a statement.

I know that in some cultures, if a woman turns down a suitor that would be seen as a beneficial match for the family, she would be shaming her family and the family of the man pursuing her and in some countries, that is punishable by death (because she has dishonored both families.)

It's sad world in which people can't choose to say NO to someone about anything... But unfortunately, it still happens...

 

[JeniBean]

Sadly most cases end in front of a jury. A jury then makes up their mind and their decision is usually based on how they were raised. Example as you mentioned rape...it was the woman's fault...why if they were raised that if you dress promiscuously and have drinks that may alter your thinking you are asking for it. I guarantee many woman have heard this from family members.

Sadly now days we have the selfish mentality and the I am a GOD factor, that if someone is turned down and they have anger/psychological issues it can get risky. However everyone here in America (Please note I wish it was every where, however certain cultures it is not) has the rights to say NO. Does that make that person at fault??? No!!!! Basically the person whom threatened...i.e. the suitor...is the one to blame...based on a fight scenario he made the initial contact. However would the jury agree...depends their lawyer.

As to men being abused, I have a good friend who is 6'5" and was constantly abused by his girlfriend. It took me years to convince him to leave. When he finally did she went more psycho and it took months for the police to take it seriously and a years for her to finally be arrested after breaking numerous orders. He lost his job, cars, place to live because the lady was crazy!!!

No ABUSE or THREAT of any kind should ever be taken lightly. And NO ONE should be forced to say YES because of a threat.

Think in these terms...he is threatening for a date...so she said YES...now she is on said date being threatened you will perform sexual acts or I will kill you. There is no way it is the girls fault. It is a no win for her. The thought of her taking abuse and threats for the great good is wrong. The threat should've been reported and sadly people should've defended her.

 

[Jilly81]

Article didn't say where she lived. Much less who the girl was.

I was just thinking it might've listed the country, not so much the specific area or person .

 

[Dino246]

Upon reading the OP, I think... wow, that guy is sick, and the class is ignorant and selfish. The girl bears no responsibility... a guy asking a gal out does not obligate her to anything. A guy being interested in or even saying 'Hi' to a gal does not obligate her to anything. Some might like to think it does, but it just ain't so.

It is a risk to ask someone out. If you can't handle being rejected, you aren't healthy enough for a relationship with a real person anyway.

Yes, it is disappointing to be rejected. But that doesn't mean someone should force, manipulate, or threaten someone else to give in after they have said 'No'. The guy should have picked up his fragile ego and walked away.

 

[zeroturbulence]

It's Obama's fault.

 

[Siberian_Khatru]

It's Obama's fault.

 

[Lynx]

HA! Good one Siberian.

 

[zeroturbulence]

Seriously though, the woman in the example had every right to say no, just like anyone else would so it is in no way her fault.

The only way it could be 'her fault' is if she was in one of those countries where women basically have no rights. In that case, the law is corrupt and there's probably not much she can do except escape or pray for a miracle of some sort.

 

[Roh_Chris]

I had been avoiding this thread for a couple of days because this is a topic that hits close to home for me. Although we do not have gun-related violence in India, we have another more gruesome (?) crime that is committed in certain parts of India.

India is a country of contradictions. We call India as our motherland and the Hindus have goddesses, but we were a patriarchal society where the practice of sati had existed and where women had enjoyed little rights for themselves. Today, however, the situation has vastly improved, and over the last 20-30 years or so, women have enjoyed the freedom to follow their dreams. Despite the progress, there are still some areas where women continue to be suppressed. For instance, when it comes to matters of romance and courtship, there are some men and some older generation women who still believe that women are merely “trophies” to be acquired. This attitude has created a number of problems in the society and has sowed the seeds of “crimes against women”. Of the crimes against women, “acid attack”, in my opinion, ranks as the worst. An acid attack (which is a crime prevalent in many parts of Asia), is a means of revenge whereby the attacker (usually a spurned lover/stalker or an estranged/jealous husband) flings acid upon his target’s face and/or body, inflicting severe physical and mental damage upon her, often for her lifetime. It is a gruesome crime and there have been cases reported from across the country. (Side-note - The only region where all crimes against women are very low is the North-east region, because the society in this region is matriarchal. Incidentally, the people from the North-east part of India are racially discriminated against, in all other parts of India.)

I do not want to go into details about this crime, but I will leave you with a couple of links. Please note that the details are gory and if you are a person who cannot handle horror very well, please do not click on these links.

This is a link about the crime – https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acid_throwing
This is a Beauty Vlogger and an Acid Attack Survivor speaking out about what happened to her and how her life has been shattered since it happened - Reshma Quereshi, Acid Attack Survivor, Speaks Out : People.com

The support system for acid attack victims is almost non-existent today. Not only does society shun them (partly because it does not find them “desirable enough to marry” and partly because it thinks they are at fault for spurning or rejecting the “approacher”), the compensation for these victims is negligent when compared to their treatment costs. Many of these victims resign themselves to the fate of living with their mutilated bodies and disfigured faces with absolutely no hope of life. Their future is so bleak and ignominious that some even commit suicide.

Today, there are some organizations who are working for the betterment of these victims. They provide counseling, pay for the medical bills, extend legal help and in some cases, even provide them with a home to stay (if their family had cast them out). Thankfully, the Indian judiciary system is NOT jury-based, so even though the chances at legal remedy are remote, justice is still possible if you persevere (and are a bit lucky). There is even a petition pending before the Supreme Court to make death penalty the maximum punishment for the perpetrator.

My opinion stands the same whether it is a gun-related violence or an acid attack. Women and men have equal rights to reject each other. No gender is superior to the other. A person who is rejected CAN NEVER justify his/her act of exacting revenge on the one who rejected him/her. If he/she does exact revenge, then he/she has to be punished with the severest of punishments, possibly even the death penalty. I do not accept the argument that humans should not be subjected to the death penalty because I do not agree with the premise that “convicts are also humans”. A convict, who hurts another person in such a gruesome way even after being fully aware of its implications, is NOT a human after all!

 

[seoulsearch]

Roh,

I'm just speaking for myself... Living here in America, I often feel very sheltered from some of the very bad things that happen in the rest of the world. Very bad things happen here, too, but I know I often forget just how many freedoms and liberties I have while living in the USA, including, for the most part, making choices that might be illegal in other countries.

I love that you share so much about Indian culture (and I appreciate the posts of many others too who tell us about the customs in their countries as well.) As if I didn't already have enough reasons, posts such as yours remind me how much I have to be thankful for and how important it is for us to stand up for our brothers and sisters in Christ around the world.

 

[Dino246]

Roh-Chris... Thanks sincerely for your input. Your perspective is valuable.

No culture is devoid of gender violence, sadly. That's because no culture is devoid of sinful people. Hey at least there won't be gender violence in heaven!

 

[Lynx]

Yeah that's why I want to know why almost all of them think the woman was at fault. Maybe not a cultural reason specifically, but I get the feeling there's SOMETHING more to this than we know.

 

[violakat]

Yeah that's why I want to know why almost all of them think the woman was at fault. Maybe not a cultural reason specifically, but I get the feeling there's SOMETHING more to this than we know.

I wish I could give you more information. But what I read in the article was that the girl never lead the guy on, and always said no, without trying to mislead him on.

However, even if she at one time wanted to date him, she still has the right to say no, just like everyone does, and neither he or anyone else has the right to force anyone to do date them, or anything else.