The Whole Doctrine of HELL - My Uncertainty... Here's Why

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G

gomlbrobro

Guest
#1
I have been a Christian all of my life and go to Church every week. I try to live a healthy, Christian lifestyle as a teen (and that can be quite difficult in this day and age). I am 18, live in America, and have a loving family that cares about me. This is just an intro... I am not going to confess my life story; this is just to give you a perspective in to my argument so I don't get comments like, "Your mind and body is not in Christ!", or "You are deceived!".

Don't get me wrong, I am not questioning the existence of God here, just his motives. I believe in the Christian God with no reasonable doubt, as I believe there is more than sufficient evidence for a willing observer to accept it.

Okay, now here is my problem with the concept of hell, which is possibly the number one reason many people have a problem with Christianity.

A loving, just God would not send people to hell mainly because it is simply unfair. Now many people say this, but hear this out from a Christian, objective eye...

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1. First, we must note that everyone is shaped by his/her environment. Parents, friends, government, socioeconomic and many more shapes each individual's perspective on life and beliefs in general - no matter that belief may be. For example, if you have obese parents, you will most likely be overweight. If you were abused as a child, it will be difficult to trust other's interest in you wellbeing. If you were brought up with violence, say in a gang or a cult, you will most likely take part in that. If you are taught to think independently, you will, and vice versa. (There are many more examples that I can think of, and you as well, but the point I'm making is that the first sentence in this paragraph is very true.) And finally, which is my ultimate premise, if you are brought up to have Christian beliefs, it will be much easier for you to be accustom to those views.
If and individual was born in Africa, India, China, or Syria you will be accustom to believe the religion that is affiliated with hat area.
If we as Christians assume the judgment of hell is based on the regime you are brought up in, something isn't right.
A defender might say, "Oh well, they always have a chance in their heart to change!". You might, in defense, say that they must have heard of Christ at least one time in their life, and even if they didn't, the holy spirit would guide them.
Okay... Say this is the case (which in my opinion is not always)... But is it fair that these people have a much more difficult time accepting the truth. A child born in India will have a much easier time accepting Hinduism as the truth than an alternate belief, like Christianity. They have their parents and friends to conform to - something which holds valuable to us as human beings.

2. This reason is somewhat linked to the first, hence much of what I've said above will not be repeated so much here. I have explained that the environment as it relates to a certain regime can shape a person's views with ease (if you are willing to be subjective to an alternate belief, that is), but an environment also impacts one's overall attitude and phycological state. Abuse, rape, deceit, neglect, hate ect. These are all prevalent themes in this age... Do you think these horrific themes in your life would change you? Do you think you would be as willing to accept a higher power that claims to "care about you"?
Now let me be clear, I as a Christian, am not so uneducated on these scenarios and am aware of the power of the devil on this impressionable world. I do, however, believe it would be hard for a non-believer to accept these facts.
Again, this leads to my premise stated before: Is it fair that this environment in which a child is brought up to live in, which is out of his/her control, will still warrant an eternal pit of fire if they are reasonably (in my opinion) not so apt to believe in God?

3. Another environmental impact that is out of our control, that we must consider, is the time period are brought to this world. Could it be that it was easier to believe in God in past centuries, where such violence, hate, humanism, and other worldly impactors did not exist to the extent that we have to endure? Is this fair?

4. Another small reason that I would like to point out, which kind of ties to number one, is that there is not sufficient evidence for people in certain countries to prove God's existence. There are instances where people have never even heard of God, but I believe surely God will forgive them (I hope you believed that before reading this). This is not what I am talking about.
For people like me, with a systematic mind that relies on evidence for proof to believe something. That's just how I was created, and that's fine, but someone like me who doesn't have access to the internet or books will have a hard time accepting God's existence. Not a big issue, but is this fair?

5. Let's talk about accepting Jesus right before you die. Recently, I saw in theaters, "Do you Believe?". At least twice it had people who were accepting Jesus Christ as their savior right before death, and of course because of this, they would therefore go to heaven and be spared from hell. What's significant is that they had a Christian with them when they died, and this is what caused them to accept Jesus right before death. What I am getting at is: is it fair to someone who didn't have that faithful pastor or Christian friend next to them when they died? Just because these people had the convenience of having these Christians around when they said their last words, they are spared from eternal punishment in a lake of fire. Others, good luck! That pastor or Christian friend are at home sleeping! Sorry!

6. On that note, is it fair that young atheists have these "all-of-the-sudden" deaths such as being caught in a fire, car accidents, and other tragedies don't have the rest of their lives as a chance to accept Jesus?

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

All of these points lead me to believe, along with the fact that our God loves each and every one of us, that the doctrine of hell misled, or even false. Think of it this way: Could God have injected the concept of hell to better us as believers? For many, the consequences of hell are to much to bare for a Christian - who will, in turn, go out and spread to gospel so prevent the horrible alternative to heaven - or the unbeliever - who will, in turn, believe in God to avoid it. The spreading and acceptance of the gospel could be the reason for this unreasonable projection.


After reading all of my response, with contemplation and pondering I might add, I would like to hear your take on this delicate observation.
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
41,307
16,297
113
69
Tennessee
#2
You wrote a very interesting post with what I believe to be valid points worth considering. You talk about unfairness. Personally, I don't seek fairness but rather God's mercy and compassion. God understands the human condition very well. Somewhere in the bible it says "Today, when you hear His voice harden not your hearts, while it is still called Today".

I understand about your view on the environment affecting the individual. God understands this even better than we do. You must learn to trust God rather than rely on fairness.

Welcome to CC.
 
G

gomlbrobro

Guest
#3
What I'm saying is a bit drastic, but basically, I believe God, in the end, will provide everyone with a certain piece of heaven. Does eternal punishment in a lake of fire, considering everything I stated above, fall in line with your basic human reasoning and compassion towards others?
 
Apr 9, 2015
995
10
0
#4
I have been a Christian all of my life and go to Church every week. I try to live a healthy, Christian lifestyle as a teen (and that can be quite difficult in this day and age). I am 18, live in America, and have a loving family that cares about me. This is just an intro... I am not going to confess my life story; this is just to give you a perspective in to my argument so I don't get comments like, "Your mind and body is not in Christ!", or "You are deceived!".

Don't get me wrong, I am not questioning the existence of God here, just his motives. I believe in the Christian God with no reasonable doubt, as I believe there is more than sufficient evidence for a willing observer to accept it.

Okay, now here is my problem with the concept of hell, which is possibly the number one reason many people have a problem with Christianity.

A loving, just God would not send people to hell mainly because it is simply unfair. Now many people say this, but hear this out from a Christian, objective eye...

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1. First, we must note that everyone is shaped by his/her environment. Parents, friends, government, socioeconomic and many more shapes each individual's perspective on life and beliefs in general - no matter that belief may be. For example, if you have obese parents, you will most likely be overweight. If you were abused as a child, it will be difficult to trust other's interest in you wellbeing. If you were brought up with violence, say in a gang or a cult, you will most likely take part in that. If you are taught to think independently, you will, and vice versa. (There are many more examples that I can think of, and you as well, but the point I'm making is that the first sentence in this paragraph is very true.) And finally, which is my ultimate premise, if you are brought up to have Christian beliefs, it will be much easier for you to be accustom to those views.
If and individual was born in Africa, India, China, or Syria you will be accustom to believe the religion that is affiliated with hat area.
If we as Christians assume the judgment of hell is based on the regime you are brought up in, something isn't right.
A defender might say, "Oh well, they always have a chance in their heart to change!". You might, in defense, say that they must have heard of Christ at least one time in their life, and even if they didn't, the holy spirit would guide them.
Okay... Say this is the case (which in my opinion is not always)... But is it fair that these people have a much more difficult time accepting the truth. A child born in India will have a much easier time accepting Hinduism as the truth than an alternate belief, like Christianity. They have their parents and friends to conform to - something which holds valuable to us as human beings.

2. This reason is somewhat linked to the first, hence much of what I've said above will not be repeated so much here. I have explained that the environment as it relates to a certain regime can shape a person's views with ease (if you are willing to be subjective to an alternate belief, that is), but an environment also impacts one's overall attitude and phycological state. Abuse, rape, deceit, neglect, hate ect. These are all prevalent themes in this age... Do you think these horrific themes in your life would change you? Do you think you would be as willing to accept a higher power that claims to "care about you"?
Now let me be clear, I as a Christian, am not so uneducated on these scenarios and am aware of the power of the devil on this impressionable world. I do, however, believe it would be hard for a non-believer to accept these facts.
Again, this leads to my premise stated before: Is it fair that this environment in which a child is brought up to live in, which is out of his/her control, will still warrant an eternal pit of fire if they are reasonably (in my opinion) not so apt to believe in God?

3. Another environmental impact that is out of our control, that we must consider, is the time period are brought to this world. Could it be that it was easier to believe in God in past centuries, where such violence, hate, humanism, and other worldly impactors did not exist to the extent that we have to endure? Is this fair?

4. Another small reason that I would like to point out, which kind of ties to number one, is that there is not sufficient evidence for people in certain countries to prove God's existence. There are instances where people have never even heard of God, but I believe surely God will forgive them (I hope you believed that before reading this). This is not what I am talking about.
For people like me, with a systematic mind that relies on evidence for proof to believe something. That's just how I was created, and that's fine, but someone like me who doesn't have access to the internet or books will have a hard time accepting God's existence. Not a big issue, but is this fair?

5. Let's talk about accepting Jesus right before you die. Recently, I saw in theaters, "Do you Believe?". At least twice it had people who were accepting Jesus Christ as their savior right before death, and of course because of this, they would therefore go to heaven and be spared from hell. What's significant is that they had a Christian with them when they died, and this is what caused them to accept Jesus right before death. What I am getting at is: is it fair to someone who didn't have that faithful pastor or Christian friend next to them when they died? Just because these people had the convenience of having these Christians around when they said their last words, they are spared from eternal punishment in a lake of fire. Others, good luck! That pastor or Christian friend are at home sleeping! Sorry!

6. On that note, is it fair that young atheists have these "all-of-the-sudden" deaths such as being caught in a fire, car accidents, and other tragedies don't have the rest of their lives as a chance to accept Jesus?

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

All of these points lead me to believe, along with the fact that our God loves each and every one of us, that the doctrine of hell misled, or even false. Think of it this way: Could God have injected the concept of hell to better us as believers? For many, the consequences of hell are to much to bare for a Christian - who will, in turn, go out and spread to gospel so prevent the horrible alternative to heaven - or the unbeliever - who will, in turn, believe in God to avoid it. The spreading and acceptance of the gospel could be the reason for this unreasonable projection.


After reading all of my response, with contemplation and pondering I might add, I would like to hear your take on this delicate observation.

You mentioned you have been a 'chrisitan your whole life and go to church every week'. let me pose this question at you

what is your 'idea' of becoming a 'christian'?? AND

Are you Born again from on High? Regenerated Spiritually?.... this is the Only Way One can become a Christian, or a follower of Christ... no other way.. I just post this question because of your 'unbelief' or uncertainty in the Doctrine of Gehenna Fire, Second Death.......
 
G

gomlbrobro

Guest
#5
This is just the type of question I was seeking to avoid, but apparently I need to write a whole paragraph transcribing my faith. If you were to read my whole writing slowly, you could find bits and pieces that would indicate I follow Christ - if my intro wasn't enough.
I can see where you are coming from, however, because I am basically critiquing the Word of God... Which is probably of bad thing. But I presume this is a good way to eliminate any doubts I have in my mind about the matter.
Yet, so far, nothing has come forth.
 
Apr 9, 2015
995
10
0
#6
This is just the type of question I was seeking to avoid, but apparently I need to write a whole paragraph transcribing my faith. If you were to read my whole writing slowly, you could find bits and pieces that would indicate I follow Christ - if my intro wasn't enough.
I can see where you are coming from, however, because I am basically critiquing the Word of God... Which is probably of bad thing. But I presume this is a good way to eliminate any doubts I have in my mind about the matter.
Yet, so far, nothing has come forth.

The Spirit of Truth, the Paraclete, will SHOW you that Gehenna Fire is REAL.. He truly will.. thats why I question ... we are called to 'test' the spirits, because when someone comes along with a supposed 'theory' of theres that this isnt real or that isnt real, when the Spirit of Truth has Confirmed it thru 2 or more Witnesses, then the red flags come up.. Christ talked about Gehenna fire, God is not Unrighteous for putting somebody there because of their rebellion, He must because He is Just and Holy. .just like He is merciful and Gracious, there is no ONE SIDED Jesus .. His Character is the Same today as it was yesterday and tomorrow, 2 Sided... not one sided......many today pull Jesus down to their level and tell Him, this is how your suppose to Act, we dont believe you would do that.. trying to Make God Act the way they Want Him to Act.. a viable characteristic of a spirit in rebellion.. indeed... What does God do when People try to tell Him how He is suppose to Act according to their 'carnal inclinations? David says He Laughs at them.. for He sees their day coming.. I would want Christ to show you the Reality of Gehenna fire.. then from that Ye would understand the Greatness of His Propitiation at the bloody Tree, from that position you would see a Holy God that is Just, Merciful, and Gracious, yet UNCHANGING.. the LORD is unchanging in His ways and Judgment, therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed!
 
Feb 24, 2015
13,204
168
0
#7
The first question you need to ask is your theory of humanity. If you look at humans and society, you will notice a basic relationship problem, people often simply fall apart. What happens if you took humans, and removed all the things that make daily life work, would we stay alive? I do not think so.
I would suggest that without a proper relationship with God, we are too inconsistent to stand alone.
So the idea of a bit of heaven for everyone, falls apart, because you just get non-functioning people.

Hell is not a place of punishment, but just destruction where things that do not work get burnt up. So there is real justice, but also real resolution. The athiests do get there aim of one life only.

The problem of people finding eternity is it is extremely difficult and only a few can find the way through. On our side of the argument we say, surely born into the right culture, right situations you have an unfair advantage. I think the whole limitation is the Lord must do what can be done in a rebellious world without blasting it apart, because of the level of insanity in people. Just look at the Israelites and how they treated God when they saw him face to face, in the pillar of smoke and fire. It calls the lie that if people saw face to face, their reactions would be so different. Nothing is so simple, and what you see is probably the best that could ever be constructed.
 
G

gomlbrobro

Guest
#8
Interesting comments. However, let me further explain what I am saying. I am certainly not saying God would be unfair to send us to hell (me and everyone else), as we are all sinners without question. On the contrary, I believe it is unfair in the sense we do not all have an equal shot at salvation. Each individual's environment can ultimately decide whether we accept his salvation.

People like me, who has a loving, Christian family to be surrounded by, has not much of a problem believing in Jesus. I have Christians surrounding me and have not gone through much turmoil to doubt the existence of a loving God. You might be in this position as well.

BUT, if you open your eyes, and honestly consider the points I have listed above, it is clear that other humans will have an profoundly harder time accepting Christ. Why? Simply because they were born subject and impressionable to their surroundings. We as humans, from childhood, and on to adulthood, are constantly molded by the finite world - without a choice I might add. This can not be debated.

If you could just take a step back for just a couple minutes from existing beliefs to think about this and get back to me, it would help a lot.

Again, I am not disputing the existence of Jesus or God. This was never my intention.

I'm saying... Could there be another meaning or way to heaven?
 
Apr 8, 2015
895
18
0
#9
I have been a Christian all of my life and go to Church every week. I try to live a healthy, Christian lifestyle as a teen (and that can be quite difficult in this day and age). I am 18, live in America, and have a loving family that cares about me. This is just an intro... I am not going to confess my life story; this is just to give you a perspective in to my argument so I don't get comments like, "Your mind and body is not in Christ!", or "You are deceived!".

Don't get me wrong, I am not questioning the existence of God here, just his motives. I believe in the Christian God with no reasonable doubt, as I believe there is more than sufficient evidence for a willing observer to accept it.

Okay, now here is my problem with the concept of hell, which is possibly the number one reason many people have a problem with Christianity.

A loving, just God would not send people to hell mainly because it is simply unfair. Now many people say this, but hear this out from a Christian, objective eye...

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1. First, we must note that everyone is shaped by his/her environment. Parents, friends, government, socioeconomic and many more shapes each individual's perspective on life and beliefs in general - no matter that belief may be. For example, if you have obese parents, you will most likely be overweight. If you were abused as a child, it will be difficult to trust other's interest in you wellbeing. If you were brought up with violence, say in a gang or a cult, you will most likely take part in that. If you are taught to think independently, you will, and vice versa. (There are many more examples that I can think of, and you as well, but the point I'm making is that the first sentence in this paragraph is very true.) And finally, which is my ultimate premise, if you are brought up to have Christian beliefs, it will be much easier for you to be accustom to those views.
If and individual was born in Africa, India, China, or Syria you will be accustom to believe the religion that is affiliated with hat area.
If we as Christians assume the judgment of hell is based on the regime you are brought up in, something isn't right.
A defender might say, "Oh well, they always have a chance in their heart to change!". You might, in defense, say that they must have heard of Christ at least one time in their life, and even if they didn't, the holy spirit would guide them.
Okay... Say this is the case (which in my opinion is not always)... But is it fair that these people have a much more difficult time accepting the truth. A child born in India will have a much easier time accepting Hinduism as the truth than an alternate belief, like Christianity. They have their parents and friends to conform to - something which holds valuable to us as human beings.

2. This reason is somewhat linked to the first, hence much of what I've said above will not be repeated so much here. I have explained that the environment as it relates to a certain regime can shape a person's views with ease (if you are willing to be subjective to an alternate belief, that is), but an environment also impacts one's overall attitude and phycological state. Abuse, rape, deceit, neglect, hate ect. These are all prevalent themes in this age... Do you think these horrific themes in your life would change you? Do you think you would be as willing to accept a higher power that claims to "care about you"?
Now let me be clear, I as a Christian, am not so uneducated on these scenarios and am aware of the power of the devil on this impressionable world. I do, however, believe it would be hard for a non-believer to accept these facts.
Again, this leads to my premise stated before: Is it fair that this environment in which a child is brought up to live in, which is out of his/her control, will still warrant an eternal pit of fire if they are reasonably (in my opinion) not so apt to believe in God?

3. Another environmental impact that is out of our control, that we must consider, is the time period are brought to this world. Could it be that it was easier to believe in God in past centuries, where such violence, hate, humanism, and other worldly impactors did not exist to the extent that we have to endure? Is this fair?

4. Another small reason that I would like to point out, which kind of ties to number one, is that there is not sufficient evidence for people in certain countries to prove God's existence. There are instances where people have never even heard of God, but I believe surely God will forgive them (I hope you believed that before reading this). This is not what I am talking about.
For people like me, with a systematic mind that relies on evidence for proof to believe something. That's just how I was created, and that's fine, but someone like me who doesn't have access to the internet or books will have a hard time accepting God's existence. Not a big issue, but is this fair?

5. Let's talk about accepting Jesus right before you die. Recently, I saw in theaters, "Do you Believe?". At least twice it had people who were accepting Jesus Christ as their savior right before death, and of course because of this, they would therefore go to heaven and be spared from hell. What's significant is that they had a Christian with them when they died, and this is what caused them to accept Jesus right before death. What I am getting at is: is it fair to someone who didn't have that faithful pastor or Christian friend next to them when they died? Just because these people had the convenience of having these Christians around when they said their last words, they are spared from eternal punishment in a lake of fire. Others, good luck! That pastor or Christian friend are at home sleeping! Sorry!

6. On that note, is it fair that young atheists have these "all-of-the-sudden" deaths such as being caught in a fire, car accidents, and other tragedies don't have the rest of their lives as a chance to accept Jesus?

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

All of these points lead me to believe, along with the fact that our God loves each and every one of us, that the doctrine of hell misled, or even false. Think of it this way: Could God have injected the concept of hell to better us as believers? For many, the consequences of hell are to much to bare for a Christian - who will, in turn, go out and spread to gospel so prevent the horrible alternative to heaven - or the unbeliever - who will, in turn, believe in God to avoid it. The spreading and acceptance of the gospel could be the reason for this unreasonable projection.


After reading all of my response, with contemplation and pondering I might add, I would like to hear your take on this delicate observation.
Nice post. I'm not convinced about some versions of hell. In fact I really dont know what its supposed to be. Lots of people do believe inthe boiling pit with demons etc etc. I think more about what being a decent person is n not at all about the hell/punishment thing. For me personally I think its nonsense but I know thats not how a lot of people think [and sorry if what I say offends anyone]
 
Jan 6, 2014
77
3
0
#10
Youre making a big mistake by understanding who God is based on 'human understanding' rather than divine scriptural theology.

Ok here's how I see it, God makes it crystal clear in his words that sinners whould perish for all eternity, basically arguing against that is speaking on ignorance of the spiritual realm, because these people talking about it (including Jesus) have seen and heared from God. And that old argument that the bible never mentioned hell in the old testament is not only false but also argument from silence.

Anyways to say there is no hell I would have to believe:- Jesus was wrong, Daniel was wrong, Apostle Paul was wrong, John who wrote revelations was wrong and the list goes on.

And asking why does God send people to hell is like asking why does the judiciary system send people to jail, they dont send people to jail people get themselves there due to their acts. The image of God today is highly distorted from who the bible say God is, I mean look at what happened to the people in the land of Canan as Joshua and his men arrived. In general I could say that God is merciful and loving but he is also a consuming fire . That fire is eternal and infinite because he is eternal and infinite.

If there's one thing I know from reading the bible ; Its that God hates sin.
 
Last edited:
Aug 15, 2009
9,745
179
0
#11
Okay, now here is my problem with the concept of hell, which is possibly the number one reason many people have a problem with Christianity.

A loving, just God would not send people to hell mainly because it is simply unfair.


All of these points lead me to believe, along with the fact that our God loves each and every one of us, that the doctrine of hell misled, or even false. Think of it this way: Could God have injected the concept of hell to better us as believers? For many, the consequences of hell are to much to bare for a Christian - who will, in turn, go out and spread to gospel so prevent the horrible alternative to heaven - or the unbeliever - who will, in turn, believe in God to avoid it. The spreading and acceptance of the gospel could be the reason for this unreasonable projection.


After reading all of my response, with contemplation and pondering I might add, I would like to hear your take on this delicate observation.

Your lack of knowledge of the scriptures & of God Himself are reasons you think this way.

1) (blue) Your statement about God injecting the concept of hell for our good insists God lied on purpose. Such understanding is carnal, not spiritual.

Numbers 23:17-20 (KJV) [SUP]17 [/SUP]And when he came to him, behold, he stood by his burnt offering, and the princes of Moab with him. And Balak said unto him, What hath the LORD spoken? [SUP]18 [/SUP]And he took up his parable, and said, Rise up, Balak, and hear; hearken unto me, thou son of Zippor: [SUP]19 [/SUP]God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good? [SUP]20 [/SUP]Behold, I have received commandment to bless: and he hath blessed; and I cannot reverse it.

Hebrews 6:18 (KJV) That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us:

2) (red) This statement implies that God isn't loving & just if He sends certain people to hell. Romans 5:19-21 (KJV) [SUP]19 [/SUP]For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous. [SUP]20 [/SUP]Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound: [SUP]21 [/SUP]That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

God gives more grace when it's needed. That's why people get saved in prison, muslims are saved, total atheists are saved, & the worst people in da hood get saved. God's gives superabundant grace for super bad situations.
2 Peter 3:9 (KJV) The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

People go to hell because they reject God's superabundant grace & His plan for their salvation. He doesn't send them..... they send themselves.

Your understanding of God believes He isn't just because He has to judge the sinner justly. If I were you, I would make sure I was saved, because I doubt your claim to be so..... not because of your questioning God, but because your understanding refuses His standards..... which is a real problem, because rebellion is a major sin.


 
G

gomlbrobro

Guest
#12
Stephen those were good comments and scripture. I am leaning towards your side, but still not fully. I will have to do more research and scripture reading.
And yes, I am saved. I have doubts just like anyone, though.
 
Jan 25, 2015
9,213
3,188
113
#13
Stephen those were good comments and scripture. I am leaning towards your side, but still not fully. I will have to do more research and scripture reading.
And yes, I am saved. I have doubts just like anyone, though.
Hi brother. We will all understand God one day but for the time being we only have the word and the Holy Spirit to guide us. The Bible is clear about eternal torment and we should therefor accept it as part of God's plan.

We have a choice to make and in God's grace the ones choosing Him will reach heaven someday :)
 
W

wwjd_kilden

Guest
#14
The thing is, that by Gods standards, that punishment IS just. Even if I, and you, and many others don't like that idea.

If you break the law, and then tell the judge "i'm sorry, now I do believe that the law said that was wrong" as you enter jail, that does not mean he will release you. And that is still justice. It would be less just if all the thieves, murderers, con artists etc just got away with it, wouldn't it? So why should God let us get away with it?

Also, an atheist, even if he dies suddenly, is HIGHLY unlikely not to know about God and Jesus (otherwise, he cannot be an atheist in the first place). So they already did have a chance.
 
G

gomlbrobro

Guest
#15
Eternal punishment is clear?

And kilden, I wasn't saying that the athiest wouldn't know about Jesus, I was making a point of the unfairness because he/she doesn't have their future to make that transition. My whole writing was based on the comparison of one life to another.
 
Apr 8, 2015
895
18
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#16
It freaks me that u come into a teen chat so u feel happier to risk to say something...n then old people come in n hammer u for daring to say your opinion. Actually its a lil creepy they do that
 
Jan 25, 2015
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#17
It freaks me that u come into a teen chat so u feel happier to risk to say something...n then old people come in n hammer u for daring to say your opinion. Actually its a lil creepy they do that
This is now the second time I see you rant over this. If you are not interested to hear the opinion of older people just ignore them and chat with the younger crew. 99,9% of the time I don't even look in what forum I am reading.

Or just block the culprits :)
 
Apr 8, 2015
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#18
This is now the second time I see you rant over this. If you are not interested to hear the opinion of older people just ignore them and chat with the younger crew. 99,9% of the time I don't even look in what forum I am reading.

Or just block the culprits :)
Why is a rant ... two lines is not a rant. If u wanna rant scroll up
 
Jan 25, 2015
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#19
Why is a rant ... two lines is not a rant. If u wanna rant scroll up
Well if something freaks me out I normally rant over it :) but you will get that on all the forums. I hope you feel better now that you have spoken your mind ;)
 
Mar 30, 2015
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#20
It freaks me that u come into a teen chat so u feel happier to risk to say something...n then old people come in n hammer u for daring to say your opinion. Actually its a lil creepy they do that

The first time you posted the same issue on the other thread, I restrained myself from responding. But now your doing it again and its not right.

This is a teens forum, but I don't see any rule that adults can't post here? What I understand is that the teens post whatever they want to here, and anyone can reply. I don't see the OP having a problem with it either. I have seen teens go post on other forums, those are not teen forums, but the Elders don't push us away.

You are 14, you would be wise to respect their opinions. There is nothing creepy about them advising us and this is not hammering, its a Bible discussion and this is how it is. The Elders are trying to make the OP understand where he is wrong, and how else are they supposed to do it? In the other thread you were talking about 60 year old people, they have 46 more years of life experience than you, and most of them have more spiritual experience than you as well. They have more life experience and spiritual experience than me as well, or any other teens. The topic presented by the OP is a serious and delicate one, to which the teens won't be able to come to an absolute solution/answer as quick as the Elder people here. Were you able to clear the OP's confusion? Am I able to clear his confusion? Is there any other teen that has been able to? None so far. Bassey and you are the only teens that have given their opinion, and the Elders opinion seems more helpful to the OP. We need the Elders guidance as well and we need to be thankful for their help and time that they spend for us.

I apologize if it has caused you any offense, Zoii, I didn't mean to offend you but I had to correct this. I apologize to the Elder people as well for such a response from the teens.

God bless you!