Well my opinion is that the idea of a teen forum is that teens talk amongst teens. You obviously feel comfortable if an older adult intrudes the space - I don't - and in any other teen forum Ive been on that's the whole idea - teens feeling comfortable in the space w teens. If you think differently that's OK - but I don't and my whole thoughts about positing something here is that I wont have to put up with a lecture for daring to say how I feel - I don't see why I need a lecture for saying my thoughts like u think i'm a naughty girl either. If the older people on CC are supposed to come here well fine...at least say it up front so we all know n I'll not comment so I dont get hammered for it, n then you will be happy too
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Good for you. I actually agree with you at a human level. Who would say you were a good parent, who took a disobedient child and locked them in a room to be tortured forever for their error? That would be called abuse.
What has made me pause though is how inconsistent we are as people, and find it hard to not behave differently in different situations. It maybe we cannot get it together unless God puts his love in our hearts, to make us eternal.
Hell then maybe a picture of us falling apart, not functioning, being very mortal and being destroyed, never brought back, ie for eternity. It could be a missreading of the phrase by Jesus, for eternity ie you are destroyed but not brought back.
G
Quite the contrary, zoii, I posted this on this particular forum because I especially wanted an opposing perspective. If I posted on an atheist forum, or basically any other forum for that matter, I would get nothing but joyful nods and biased responses.
Not to say that this forum isn't biased, it certainly is 100%. However, I am a Christian and agree with every other aspect of the religion, and I would much rather hear from people who aren't deceived and completely lost in life.
Not to say that this forum isn't biased, it certainly is 100%. However, I am a Christian and agree with every other aspect of the religion, and I would much rather hear from people who aren't deceived and completely lost in life.
It might be beneficial to study a little on some of the words we use: (This is but a small start)
Eternal Life, Eternality, Everlasting Life
The divinely bestowed gift of blessedness in God's presence that endures without end. This relates especially to the quality of life in this age, and to both the quality and duration of life in the age to come. Key to understanding the biblical meaning of these terms is the Bible's use of the word "eternal."
Old Testament Teaching. God is eternal ( Deut 33:27 ; Psalm 10:16 ; 48:14 ). Scripture does not provide philosophical reflection on this fact but assumes it. The Lord is the Rock eternal ( Isa 26:4 ) and the eternal King ( Jer 10:10 ). God's word, rooted in his being and will, is likewise eternal ( Psalm 119:89 ), as are his righteous laws (119:60), his ways ( Hab 3:6 ), and his kingdom or dominion ( Daniel 4:3 Daniel 4:34 ). Since God is eternal, so are his love ( 1 Kings 10:9 ), his blessings ( Psalm 21:6 ), and all his other attributes and benefits. They endure without end; as long as God exists, so do they.
"His love endures forever" is repeated twenty-six times in Psalm 136 alone. Elsewhere in the psalms "forever" is used to describe God's reign ( 9:7 ), his protection ( 12:7 ), his plans ( 33:11 ), the inheritance of his people ( 37:18 ), his throne ( 55:19 ), his rule ( 66:7 ), his remembrance of his covenant ( 105:8 ), his righteousness ( 111:3 ), his faithfulness ( 117:2 ), his statutes ( Psalms 119:111 Psalms 119:152 ), and his name ( 135:13 ). Other Old Testament books offer abundant additional affirmation of these and other never-ending aspects of God or his saving provisions.
Some deny awareness of a personally significant eternity in most Old Testament Scripture and history. A prominent segment of modern biblical scholarship would concur that in Israel there was no belief in life after death. It is truth that many biblical characters, like some who study them, seem oblivious to their eschatological destiny. They show little awareness of a transcendent world order in which they will be personally involved, a divinely ordained future imposing imperatives on the present. It is likewise true that Old Testament awareness of eternal realities is less specific and complete than that of the New Testament. Yet the progressive nature of biblical revelation (as well as the necessarily restricted scope of each Old Testament book) should be borne in mind. Many central biblical doctrines (e.g., the Trinity, the incarnation, divine self-sacrifice for sin) are only adumbrated in earlier biblical history, to be fleshed out in the fullness of time. The numerous Old Testament references to the Lord's future and thus to the future of those who trust in him leave little room for insisting that the Old Testament contains no inkling of a life beyond the present world. Such insistence is understandable where Enlightenment or postmodern assumptions, methods, and conclusions are dogmatically embraced.
The Old Testament does not seem to conceive of eternity in purely abstract terms, as a static state of timelessness. The Greek word aion [aijwvn] (age, era, lengthy time, eternity) in the Septuagint and New Testament corresponds to the Hebrew Old Testament's olam ['l/[] (a long time, eternity); neither word as used in Scripture answers to the notion of "eternity" that shows up in the ancient philosophies of Plato and Aristotle. For Plato, eternity is a timeless and transcendent state totally outside the dimension of time. For Aristotle, as for Thomas Aquinas who followed him at this point, eternity "becomes known from two characteristics: first, from the fact that whatever is in eternity is interminable, that is, lacking beginning and end ; second, from the fact that eternity itself lacks successiveness, existing entirely at once [tota simul]" (Aquinas, Summa, I, 10, 1).
In this view eternity is a motionless, changeless state, remote and qualitatively distinct from time. Time and eternity are antithetical, and eternity is accessible to human thought only by logical speculation that views God not as the personal, living, historically self-revealing being described in Scripture but as the inscrutable "unmoved first mover" of Aristotelian reasoning. This understanding has had great influence on Western theology and on the way many Christians even today understand "eternity" and "eternal life" when they encounter them in the Bible.
The Old Testament, like the New, resists this time-eternity dualism. True, it speaks of a coming age from which evil will be banished and for which God's life and glory will be determinative for all that exists and takes place. This is quite different from the current world order. But that age has points of continuity with the present one because the God of that age is at the same time the God of the present age (allowing for the presence of Satan and evil in this "present evil age" [ Gal 1:4 ]; until they meet their final end ). His reign extends for all time and over all times.
This means that the temporal order has redemptive potential as the sphere in which God's Spirit, the Spirit of the incarnate and risen Jesus Christ, works out his will in human affairs. History, while it cannot fully contain the reality of the transcendent God, also is not incapable of receiving and responding to his presence. The incarnation offers abundant proof of this fact. And eternity, while it lies chronologically beyond temporal life in the here and now, is not in all respects qualitatively remote and aloof from it. We may thus look to biblical revelation as descriptive of God's presence in and intent for both the present world order and the coming one; we need not turn from Scripture to atemporal philosophical idealism for normative insight into the nature of eternity and its relation to present time.
The Old Testament, then, encourages us to define eternity in terms of the duration of the revealed God's dealings with his people in times past, now, and always. This God has ever been solicitous for his name and for the people with whom he has deigned to share it. This past state of affairs will continue for eternity, so long as God who lives and loves endures. To define eternity more closely, the Bible would seem to call for laying hold of personal relationship with God. To trust him is to begin to realize what "eternal" signifies. To live responsively before him means to gain understanding, indeed induction, into "eternal life."
Eternal Life. A dominant theme of the New Testament, though not without Old Testament grounding, is eternal (or everlasting) life. Eternal life is therefore one of the unifying themes of the New Testament. It is a term that describes the salvation that God bestows on those who trust and serve him. It denotes not only the length of time that God's favor extends to his people but also the quality of existence that they may enjoy as they worship and serve him.
John's Gospel is rich with references to eternal life. Nicodemus' questions about Jesus' ministry and teaching lead Jesus to speak of it ( 3:15-16 ). It is a gift to all those who believe in the Son but will be withheld from all those who reject him ( 3:36 ). Jesus likewise speaks of eternal life during his brief early ministry in Samaria. He assures the woman at the well that trust in him will slake the thirst of her soul; she will receive "a spring of water welling up" within her "to eternal life" ( 4:14 ; cf. 4:36 ). In response to charges of Sabbath breaking in Jerusalem Jesus urges listeners to heed his message and trust God; to do so is to have "eternal life." This means escape from condemnation on judgment day and in the age to come. In the present it means a crossing over "from death to life" ( 5:24 ). Eternal life is available through study of the Scriptures as they relate to Jesus Christ ( 5:39 ).
Jesus urges a crowd by Galilee's shores not to "work for food that spoils, but for food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you ( 6:27 ). God wills that "everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life." This will result in resurrection "at the last day" ( 6:40 ). Jesus' difficult statement that everyone "who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life" ( 6:54 ) is a summons for sinners to make the Father's will their meat and drink, by trusting in the Son, just as the Son made the Father's will his own daily fare ( 4:34 ).
The Christocentric nature of eternal life is underscored by Jesus' own words in prayer on the night he was betrayed. First, he reminds the heavenly Father that he gave the Son "authority over all people that he might give eternal life to all those you have given him" ( 17:2 ). Next he furnishes a succinct description of what eternal life involves: "Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent" ( 17:3 ).
Eternal life as presented in John's Gospel forms a solid core within apostolic preaching and teaching in the decades subsequent to Jesus' death and resurrection. Predictably, it receives repeated mention in John's own longest extant epistle ( 1 John 1:2 ; 2:25 ; 3:15 ; 1 John 5:11 1 John 5:13 1 John 5:20 ). Both Paul and Luke speak of it, too, in connection with Paul's first missionary journey ( Acts 13:46 Acts 13:48 ). In Paul's earliest extant epistle he avows that whoever "sows to please the Spirit" will also "reap eternal life from the Spirit" ( Gal 6:8 ). Paul refers, of course, to the Spirit of the living God, the Spirit of Jesus Christ ( Rom 8:9-11 ). The Epistle to the Romans reveals that God grants eternal life "to those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor, and immortality" ( 2:7 ). Yet eternal life is won not by human effort but by divine self-sacrifice as Christ undoes the woe that Adam's fall helped unleash on the human race ( 5:12-21 ). Through Christ grace reigns "through righteousness to bring eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord" ( 5:21 ; cf. John 6:22 John 6:23 ).
Far from treating eternal life as a rudimentary or unimportant matter, in Paul's last extant letter he is still extolling its glories. "The hope of eternal life" is in fact foundational to faith in and knowledge of God ( Titus 1:1-2 ). Here, as elsewhere in Paul, "hope" denotes a sure, if not yet fully realized, reality ( Rom 8:24 ). Paul, originally the arch-enemy of Christ, tells Timothy that his conversion serves "as an example for those who would believe on [Christ] and receive eternal life" ( 1 Tim 1:16 ). He exhorts Timothy "to take hold of the eternal life" to which he was called ( 1 Tim 6:12 ). It may have been in the same general span of time late in the apostolic era that Jude encouraged his readers, "Keep yourselves in God's love as you wait for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to bring you to eternal life" ( Jude 21 ).
If in Jude eternal life seems to be a future possession, many other references speak of it as a present reality. Which is it? The answer seems to be both. Eternal life has both an "already" and a "not yet" dimension. Interpreters have sometimes erred in stressing one to the exclusion of the other. Biblical statements taken in their entirety counsel careful regard for both aspects of a two-sided truth: eternal life is a present possession in terms of its reality, efficacy, and irrevocability ( John 10:28 ). Yet its full realization awaits life with the Lord in the age to come.
"Eternal" Elsewhere in the New Testament. "Eternal" (Gk. aionios [aijwvnio"]) occurs as an adjective in a number of noteworthy connections. In Luke 16:9 Jesus speaks of the "eternal dwellings" that await those whose use of mammon, or worldly wealth, is pleasing to God. This appears to be another way of referring to heaven using an earthly, spatial metaphor ( John 14:2-3 ). Paul speaks of the "eternal house" that awaits humans after death ( 2 Cor 5:1 ), but he has in mind the resurrection body rather than a heavenly dwelling place in terms of a building. Further, Paul uses this figure of speech to underline the temporary nature of life, not to speak of the Platonic release of the soul from captivity in the body. In the New Testament as in the Old, "eternal" carries a different connotation than it does in Greek philosophy.
God's "eternal power" is evident even to nonbelievers from the grandeur of the created order ( Rom 1:20 ). "Eternal" describes God himself, the King in his regal splendor who is at the same time "immortal, invisible, " and unique ( 1 Tim 1:17 ). Paul speaks of the "eternal God" whose command undergirded the apostolic proclamation to the nations ( Rom 16:26 ). God presides over an "eternal kingdom" ( 2 Peter 1:11 ), grants "eternal encouragement" ( 2 Thess 2:16 ), works to effect his "eternal purpose" ( Eph 3:11 ), and offers "eternal glory" ( 2 Col 4:17 ; 2 Tim 2:10 ; 1 Peter 5:10 ) to the elect who suffer for the sake of his kingdom and his Son. Enjoyment of "eternal glory" in the wake of suffering is explained elsewhere as one of the great privileges and assurances of union with Christ: Christians are "heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory" ( Rom 8:17 ).
The writer of Hebrews speaks of Jesus Christ as "the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him" ( Heb 5:9 ). "The resurrection of the dead and eternal judgment" are rudimentary truths that mature believers should long since have learned ( 6:2 ). Christ's blood, in contrast to that of Old Testament sacrifices, won "eternal redemption" ( 9:12 ), and it was by "the eternal Spirit" that Christ offered himself up to God ( 9:14 ). By faith in Christ "those who are called receive the promised eternal inheritance" ( 9:15 ) by virtue of "the blood of the eternal covenant" ( 13:20 ).
In the same sense that "eternal" describes the boon that those who seek the Lord receive, now and forever, eternal condemnation threatens the rebellious and indifferent. Jesus speaks of the "eternal sin" of blaspheming the Holy Spirit; for this there can be no forgiveness ( Mark 3:29 ), in part perhaps because the perpetrator of such a heinous act cannot muster the will to seek it ( Heb 12:17 ). The ultimate outcome of rejection of Jesus Christ is "eternal fire" ( Matt 18:8 ; 25:41 ; Jude 7 ), "eternal punishment" ( Matt 25:46 ) and "eternal [NIV: "everlasting"; the Greek word is aion [aijwvn]] destruction." While such bleak pronouncements seem hard for some to square with the idea of a loving God, there is no linguistically convincing or theologically satisfactory way to avoid the conclusion that just as joy in the Lord's presence will endure for all timefor eternityso will the experience of his hot displeasure.
Yet "the eternal gospel" ( Rev 14:6 ) offers hope, the entré into an unending blessed future before the Lord rather than banishment from it. While the background assumption of both Old and New Testament is a coming judgment with eternal implications for every single soul, its prominent and urgent plea is for all people to heed the gospel, thereby being reconciled to God (cf. 2 Col 5:18-21 ).
Ethics and Worship. A major assumption of virtually all biblical writers is that the eternal has weighty and necessary implications for the temporal. They are aware that God is the "Everlasting Father" ( Isa 9:6 ) who gives good gifts to all, just and unjust alike. But they also insist that he will one day appear as eternal judge of all the earth ( Gen 18:25 ; 1 Sam 2:10 ; 1 Chron 16:33 ; Psalm 9:8 ; John 12:48 ; Rom 2:16 ). What lies in the futureeschatological judgmentshould be regarded as determinative for human thought and action in the present. "For God will bring every deed into judgment, including every hidden thing, whether it is good or evil" ( Eccl 12:14 ; cf. 1 Col 4:5 ; 2 Tim 4:1 ). "But I tell you that men will have to give account on the day of judgment for every careless word they have spoken" ( Matt 12:36 ). If words will be so gravely assessed, how much more all human actions?
Eternality is, then, not a philosophical category serving sheerly speculative ends. It is rather a dimension of God's established order that calls people to seek God's pleasure here, making it their highest priority to further his interests and kingdom in every way, so they may enjoy his favor in the hereafter. In this sense reflection on eternality and eternal life is never complete without sober contemplation of ethical corollaries. The Lord who is "our king" and "our judge" is also "our lawgiver" ( Isa 33:22 ; cf. James 4:12 ). Unlocking the mysteries of eternity begins with careful attention and trusting response to the precepts and commands of the "righteous judge" ( Psalm 7:11 ). Paul voices a fundamental if optimal Christian conviction regarding that day when God brings all things to light: "Now there is in store for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me on that dayand not only to me, but also to all who have longed for his appearing" ( 2 Tim 4:8 ). Eternitywith the assurance of vindication before the eternal judgerightly shaped Paul's present.
If ethical focus is one corollary of a biblical theology of eternity, another is worship. Eternity is the basis for doxology. Already in Moses' hymn of victory, God's eternal reign is the basis for praise: "The Lord will reign for ever and ever" ( Exod 15:18 ). David picks up and continues the strain: "The Lord is King for ever and ever" ( Psalm 10:16 ). The place of God's dwelling is "secure forever" ( Psalm 48:8 ); his "praise reaches to the ends of the earth for this God is our God for ever and ever; he will be our guide even to the end" (vv. 10, 14).
Sinners receive access to God's everlasting throne ( Psalm 45:6 ; Heb 1:8 ), promised to David's descendants (2 Sam. 7) on behalf of Abraham's heirs ( Luke 1:33 Luke 1:55 ), through the priestly ministrations of Jesus Christ, "a priest forever" ( Heb 5:6 ; 6:20 ; 7:21 ). In keeping with the sober historical integrity of the four Gospels and Acts, the accounts of Jesus' life and ministry are not studded with lofty ascriptions of praise to Christ. His earthly rigors hid his eternal glory. But this alters perceptibly in the Epistles. Most of them well up in worshipful exclamation linked explicitly to God's, or Christ's eternality. He is praised "forever" or "for ever and ever." Other Epistles imply the same praise by extolling the Lord's eternal rewards: "a crown that will last forever" ( 1 Cor 9:25 ); life "with the Lord forever" ( 1 Thess 4:17 ; cf. Php 1:23 ). As John writes, the person "who does the will of God lives forever" ( 1 John 2:17 ) because of the gospel's "truth, which lives in us and will be with us forever" ( 2 John 2 ).
But it is Scripture's last book that most sweepingly links God's eternality to worship. John's vision begins with praise to God "for ever and ever" ( 1:6 ). The exalted Jesus Christ declares that he is "alive for ever and ever" ( 1:18 ). The Lord's power, reign, and glory in their ceaseless duration dot the literary landscape of subsequent chapters. Also never ending is the torment of God's enemies, the smoke of whose "torment rises for ever and ever" ( 14:11 ; cf. 19:3 ; 20:10 ). Yet happier prospects await all who have received the grace of the eternal God through his Son in this present life: in worshiping the eternal King "they will reign for ever and ever" ( 22:5 ).
Robert W. Yarbrough
Eternal Life, Eternality, Everlasting Life
The divinely bestowed gift of blessedness in God's presence that endures without end. This relates especially to the quality of life in this age, and to both the quality and duration of life in the age to come. Key to understanding the biblical meaning of these terms is the Bible's use of the word "eternal."
Old Testament Teaching. God is eternal ( Deut 33:27 ; Psalm 10:16 ; 48:14 ). Scripture does not provide philosophical reflection on this fact but assumes it. The Lord is the Rock eternal ( Isa 26:4 ) and the eternal King ( Jer 10:10 ). God's word, rooted in his being and will, is likewise eternal ( Psalm 119:89 ), as are his righteous laws (119:60), his ways ( Hab 3:6 ), and his kingdom or dominion ( Daniel 4:3 Daniel 4:34 ). Since God is eternal, so are his love ( 1 Kings 10:9 ), his blessings ( Psalm 21:6 ), and all his other attributes and benefits. They endure without end; as long as God exists, so do they.
"His love endures forever" is repeated twenty-six times in Psalm 136 alone. Elsewhere in the psalms "forever" is used to describe God's reign ( 9:7 ), his protection ( 12:7 ), his plans ( 33:11 ), the inheritance of his people ( 37:18 ), his throne ( 55:19 ), his rule ( 66:7 ), his remembrance of his covenant ( 105:8 ), his righteousness ( 111:3 ), his faithfulness ( 117:2 ), his statutes ( Psalms 119:111 Psalms 119:152 ), and his name ( 135:13 ). Other Old Testament books offer abundant additional affirmation of these and other never-ending aspects of God or his saving provisions.
Some deny awareness of a personally significant eternity in most Old Testament Scripture and history. A prominent segment of modern biblical scholarship would concur that in Israel there was no belief in life after death. It is truth that many biblical characters, like some who study them, seem oblivious to their eschatological destiny. They show little awareness of a transcendent world order in which they will be personally involved, a divinely ordained future imposing imperatives on the present. It is likewise true that Old Testament awareness of eternal realities is less specific and complete than that of the New Testament. Yet the progressive nature of biblical revelation (as well as the necessarily restricted scope of each Old Testament book) should be borne in mind. Many central biblical doctrines (e.g., the Trinity, the incarnation, divine self-sacrifice for sin) are only adumbrated in earlier biblical history, to be fleshed out in the fullness of time. The numerous Old Testament references to the Lord's future and thus to the future of those who trust in him leave little room for insisting that the Old Testament contains no inkling of a life beyond the present world. Such insistence is understandable where Enlightenment or postmodern assumptions, methods, and conclusions are dogmatically embraced.
The Old Testament does not seem to conceive of eternity in purely abstract terms, as a static state of timelessness. The Greek word aion [aijwvn] (age, era, lengthy time, eternity) in the Septuagint and New Testament corresponds to the Hebrew Old Testament's olam ['l/[] (a long time, eternity); neither word as used in Scripture answers to the notion of "eternity" that shows up in the ancient philosophies of Plato and Aristotle. For Plato, eternity is a timeless and transcendent state totally outside the dimension of time. For Aristotle, as for Thomas Aquinas who followed him at this point, eternity "becomes known from two characteristics: first, from the fact that whatever is in eternity is interminable, that is, lacking beginning and end ; second, from the fact that eternity itself lacks successiveness, existing entirely at once [tota simul]" (Aquinas, Summa, I, 10, 1).
In this view eternity is a motionless, changeless state, remote and qualitatively distinct from time. Time and eternity are antithetical, and eternity is accessible to human thought only by logical speculation that views God not as the personal, living, historically self-revealing being described in Scripture but as the inscrutable "unmoved first mover" of Aristotelian reasoning. This understanding has had great influence on Western theology and on the way many Christians even today understand "eternity" and "eternal life" when they encounter them in the Bible.
The Old Testament, like the New, resists this time-eternity dualism. True, it speaks of a coming age from which evil will be banished and for which God's life and glory will be determinative for all that exists and takes place. This is quite different from the current world order. But that age has points of continuity with the present one because the God of that age is at the same time the God of the present age (allowing for the presence of Satan and evil in this "present evil age" [ Gal 1:4 ]; until they meet their final end ). His reign extends for all time and over all times.
This means that the temporal order has redemptive potential as the sphere in which God's Spirit, the Spirit of the incarnate and risen Jesus Christ, works out his will in human affairs. History, while it cannot fully contain the reality of the transcendent God, also is not incapable of receiving and responding to his presence. The incarnation offers abundant proof of this fact. And eternity, while it lies chronologically beyond temporal life in the here and now, is not in all respects qualitatively remote and aloof from it. We may thus look to biblical revelation as descriptive of God's presence in and intent for both the present world order and the coming one; we need not turn from Scripture to atemporal philosophical idealism for normative insight into the nature of eternity and its relation to present time.
The Old Testament, then, encourages us to define eternity in terms of the duration of the revealed God's dealings with his people in times past, now, and always. This God has ever been solicitous for his name and for the people with whom he has deigned to share it. This past state of affairs will continue for eternity, so long as God who lives and loves endures. To define eternity more closely, the Bible would seem to call for laying hold of personal relationship with God. To trust him is to begin to realize what "eternal" signifies. To live responsively before him means to gain understanding, indeed induction, into "eternal life."
Eternal Life. A dominant theme of the New Testament, though not without Old Testament grounding, is eternal (or everlasting) life. Eternal life is therefore one of the unifying themes of the New Testament. It is a term that describes the salvation that God bestows on those who trust and serve him. It denotes not only the length of time that God's favor extends to his people but also the quality of existence that they may enjoy as they worship and serve him.
John's Gospel is rich with references to eternal life. Nicodemus' questions about Jesus' ministry and teaching lead Jesus to speak of it ( 3:15-16 ). It is a gift to all those who believe in the Son but will be withheld from all those who reject him ( 3:36 ). Jesus likewise speaks of eternal life during his brief early ministry in Samaria. He assures the woman at the well that trust in him will slake the thirst of her soul; she will receive "a spring of water welling up" within her "to eternal life" ( 4:14 ; cf. 4:36 ). In response to charges of Sabbath breaking in Jerusalem Jesus urges listeners to heed his message and trust God; to do so is to have "eternal life." This means escape from condemnation on judgment day and in the age to come. In the present it means a crossing over "from death to life" ( 5:24 ). Eternal life is available through study of the Scriptures as they relate to Jesus Christ ( 5:39 ).
Jesus urges a crowd by Galilee's shores not to "work for food that spoils, but for food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you ( 6:27 ). God wills that "everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life." This will result in resurrection "at the last day" ( 6:40 ). Jesus' difficult statement that everyone "who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life" ( 6:54 ) is a summons for sinners to make the Father's will their meat and drink, by trusting in the Son, just as the Son made the Father's will his own daily fare ( 4:34 ).
The Christocentric nature of eternal life is underscored by Jesus' own words in prayer on the night he was betrayed. First, he reminds the heavenly Father that he gave the Son "authority over all people that he might give eternal life to all those you have given him" ( 17:2 ). Next he furnishes a succinct description of what eternal life involves: "Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent" ( 17:3 ).
Eternal life as presented in John's Gospel forms a solid core within apostolic preaching and teaching in the decades subsequent to Jesus' death and resurrection. Predictably, it receives repeated mention in John's own longest extant epistle ( 1 John 1:2 ; 2:25 ; 3:15 ; 1 John 5:11 1 John 5:13 1 John 5:20 ). Both Paul and Luke speak of it, too, in connection with Paul's first missionary journey ( Acts 13:46 Acts 13:48 ). In Paul's earliest extant epistle he avows that whoever "sows to please the Spirit" will also "reap eternal life from the Spirit" ( Gal 6:8 ). Paul refers, of course, to the Spirit of the living God, the Spirit of Jesus Christ ( Rom 8:9-11 ). The Epistle to the Romans reveals that God grants eternal life "to those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor, and immortality" ( 2:7 ). Yet eternal life is won not by human effort but by divine self-sacrifice as Christ undoes the woe that Adam's fall helped unleash on the human race ( 5:12-21 ). Through Christ grace reigns "through righteousness to bring eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord" ( 5:21 ; cf. John 6:22 John 6:23 ).
Far from treating eternal life as a rudimentary or unimportant matter, in Paul's last extant letter he is still extolling its glories. "The hope of eternal life" is in fact foundational to faith in and knowledge of God ( Titus 1:1-2 ). Here, as elsewhere in Paul, "hope" denotes a sure, if not yet fully realized, reality ( Rom 8:24 ). Paul, originally the arch-enemy of Christ, tells Timothy that his conversion serves "as an example for those who would believe on [Christ] and receive eternal life" ( 1 Tim 1:16 ). He exhorts Timothy "to take hold of the eternal life" to which he was called ( 1 Tim 6:12 ). It may have been in the same general span of time late in the apostolic era that Jude encouraged his readers, "Keep yourselves in God's love as you wait for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to bring you to eternal life" ( Jude 21 ).
If in Jude eternal life seems to be a future possession, many other references speak of it as a present reality. Which is it? The answer seems to be both. Eternal life has both an "already" and a "not yet" dimension. Interpreters have sometimes erred in stressing one to the exclusion of the other. Biblical statements taken in their entirety counsel careful regard for both aspects of a two-sided truth: eternal life is a present possession in terms of its reality, efficacy, and irrevocability ( John 10:28 ). Yet its full realization awaits life with the Lord in the age to come.
"Eternal" Elsewhere in the New Testament. "Eternal" (Gk. aionios [aijwvnio"]) occurs as an adjective in a number of noteworthy connections. In Luke 16:9 Jesus speaks of the "eternal dwellings" that await those whose use of mammon, or worldly wealth, is pleasing to God. This appears to be another way of referring to heaven using an earthly, spatial metaphor ( John 14:2-3 ). Paul speaks of the "eternal house" that awaits humans after death ( 2 Cor 5:1 ), but he has in mind the resurrection body rather than a heavenly dwelling place in terms of a building. Further, Paul uses this figure of speech to underline the temporary nature of life, not to speak of the Platonic release of the soul from captivity in the body. In the New Testament as in the Old, "eternal" carries a different connotation than it does in Greek philosophy.
God's "eternal power" is evident even to nonbelievers from the grandeur of the created order ( Rom 1:20 ). "Eternal" describes God himself, the King in his regal splendor who is at the same time "immortal, invisible, " and unique ( 1 Tim 1:17 ). Paul speaks of the "eternal God" whose command undergirded the apostolic proclamation to the nations ( Rom 16:26 ). God presides over an "eternal kingdom" ( 2 Peter 1:11 ), grants "eternal encouragement" ( 2 Thess 2:16 ), works to effect his "eternal purpose" ( Eph 3:11 ), and offers "eternal glory" ( 2 Col 4:17 ; 2 Tim 2:10 ; 1 Peter 5:10 ) to the elect who suffer for the sake of his kingdom and his Son. Enjoyment of "eternal glory" in the wake of suffering is explained elsewhere as one of the great privileges and assurances of union with Christ: Christians are "heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory" ( Rom 8:17 ).
The writer of Hebrews speaks of Jesus Christ as "the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him" ( Heb 5:9 ). "The resurrection of the dead and eternal judgment" are rudimentary truths that mature believers should long since have learned ( 6:2 ). Christ's blood, in contrast to that of Old Testament sacrifices, won "eternal redemption" ( 9:12 ), and it was by "the eternal Spirit" that Christ offered himself up to God ( 9:14 ). By faith in Christ "those who are called receive the promised eternal inheritance" ( 9:15 ) by virtue of "the blood of the eternal covenant" ( 13:20 ).
In the same sense that "eternal" describes the boon that those who seek the Lord receive, now and forever, eternal condemnation threatens the rebellious and indifferent. Jesus speaks of the "eternal sin" of blaspheming the Holy Spirit; for this there can be no forgiveness ( Mark 3:29 ), in part perhaps because the perpetrator of such a heinous act cannot muster the will to seek it ( Heb 12:17 ). The ultimate outcome of rejection of Jesus Christ is "eternal fire" ( Matt 18:8 ; 25:41 ; Jude 7 ), "eternal punishment" ( Matt 25:46 ) and "eternal [NIV: "everlasting"; the Greek word is aion [aijwvn]] destruction." While such bleak pronouncements seem hard for some to square with the idea of a loving God, there is no linguistically convincing or theologically satisfactory way to avoid the conclusion that just as joy in the Lord's presence will endure for all timefor eternityso will the experience of his hot displeasure.
Yet "the eternal gospel" ( Rev 14:6 ) offers hope, the entré into an unending blessed future before the Lord rather than banishment from it. While the background assumption of both Old and New Testament is a coming judgment with eternal implications for every single soul, its prominent and urgent plea is for all people to heed the gospel, thereby being reconciled to God (cf. 2 Col 5:18-21 ).
Ethics and Worship. A major assumption of virtually all biblical writers is that the eternal has weighty and necessary implications for the temporal. They are aware that God is the "Everlasting Father" ( Isa 9:6 ) who gives good gifts to all, just and unjust alike. But they also insist that he will one day appear as eternal judge of all the earth ( Gen 18:25 ; 1 Sam 2:10 ; 1 Chron 16:33 ; Psalm 9:8 ; John 12:48 ; Rom 2:16 ). What lies in the futureeschatological judgmentshould be regarded as determinative for human thought and action in the present. "For God will bring every deed into judgment, including every hidden thing, whether it is good or evil" ( Eccl 12:14 ; cf. 1 Col 4:5 ; 2 Tim 4:1 ). "But I tell you that men will have to give account on the day of judgment for every careless word they have spoken" ( Matt 12:36 ). If words will be so gravely assessed, how much more all human actions?
Eternality is, then, not a philosophical category serving sheerly speculative ends. It is rather a dimension of God's established order that calls people to seek God's pleasure here, making it their highest priority to further his interests and kingdom in every way, so they may enjoy his favor in the hereafter. In this sense reflection on eternality and eternal life is never complete without sober contemplation of ethical corollaries. The Lord who is "our king" and "our judge" is also "our lawgiver" ( Isa 33:22 ; cf. James 4:12 ). Unlocking the mysteries of eternity begins with careful attention and trusting response to the precepts and commands of the "righteous judge" ( Psalm 7:11 ). Paul voices a fundamental if optimal Christian conviction regarding that day when God brings all things to light: "Now there is in store for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me on that dayand not only to me, but also to all who have longed for his appearing" ( 2 Tim 4:8 ). Eternitywith the assurance of vindication before the eternal judgerightly shaped Paul's present.
If ethical focus is one corollary of a biblical theology of eternity, another is worship. Eternity is the basis for doxology. Already in Moses' hymn of victory, God's eternal reign is the basis for praise: "The Lord will reign for ever and ever" ( Exod 15:18 ). David picks up and continues the strain: "The Lord is King for ever and ever" ( Psalm 10:16 ). The place of God's dwelling is "secure forever" ( Psalm 48:8 ); his "praise reaches to the ends of the earth for this God is our God for ever and ever; he will be our guide even to the end" (vv. 10, 14).
Sinners receive access to God's everlasting throne ( Psalm 45:6 ; Heb 1:8 ), promised to David's descendants (2 Sam. 7) on behalf of Abraham's heirs ( Luke 1:33 Luke 1:55 ), through the priestly ministrations of Jesus Christ, "a priest forever" ( Heb 5:6 ; 6:20 ; 7:21 ). In keeping with the sober historical integrity of the four Gospels and Acts, the accounts of Jesus' life and ministry are not studded with lofty ascriptions of praise to Christ. His earthly rigors hid his eternal glory. But this alters perceptibly in the Epistles. Most of them well up in worshipful exclamation linked explicitly to God's, or Christ's eternality. He is praised "forever" or "for ever and ever." Other Epistles imply the same praise by extolling the Lord's eternal rewards: "a crown that will last forever" ( 1 Cor 9:25 ); life "with the Lord forever" ( 1 Thess 4:17 ; cf. Php 1:23 ). As John writes, the person "who does the will of God lives forever" ( 1 John 2:17 ) because of the gospel's "truth, which lives in us and will be with us forever" ( 2 John 2 ).
But it is Scripture's last book that most sweepingly links God's eternality to worship. John's vision begins with praise to God "for ever and ever" ( 1:6 ). The exalted Jesus Christ declares that he is "alive for ever and ever" ( 1:18 ). The Lord's power, reign, and glory in their ceaseless duration dot the literary landscape of subsequent chapters. Also never ending is the torment of God's enemies, the smoke of whose "torment rises for ever and ever" ( 14:11 ; cf. 19:3 ; 20:10 ). Yet happier prospects await all who have received the grace of the eternal God through his Son in this present life: in worshiping the eternal King "they will reign for ever and ever" ( 22:5 ).
Robert W. Yarbrough
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zoii:
And the hard truth is older people are almost always wiser. They have that much more experience in life that they get to observe the world and also learn from it. If one uses their time well, which I believe they have (unlike this stupid generation - me included), merely a couple years can make a difference in your intellect and overall wisdom. Think of ten, twenty, thirty, the learning curve is linear and is always increasing (until of course you get too old and your mind starts to deteriorate).
Looking in to the future when you are old, do you think you will be dumber or smarter? If you have any confidence in yourself, the answer would be smarter. From that, and yes I believe you can make this conclusion (since we are not much different than one another as humans), it is reasonable to believe that these older people are, in fact, wiser than us. Moreover, I take their perspective much more heartedly than from teens, like us.
And the hard truth is older people are almost always wiser. They have that much more experience in life that they get to observe the world and also learn from it. If one uses their time well, which I believe they have (unlike this stupid generation - me included), merely a couple years can make a difference in your intellect and overall wisdom. Think of ten, twenty, thirty, the learning curve is linear and is always increasing (until of course you get too old and your mind starts to deteriorate).
Looking in to the future when you are old, do you think you will be dumber or smarter? If you have any confidence in yourself, the answer would be smarter. From that, and yes I believe you can make this conclusion (since we are not much different than one another as humans), it is reasonable to believe that these older people are, in fact, wiser than us. Moreover, I take their perspective much more heartedly than from teens, like us.
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MadeinGodsImage made the same point I did, I didn't see it though. Sorry, zoii, it sucks to be ganged up on doesn't it? BUT: If you want to learn anything, rather than living in blatant ignorance, it is essential to consider other people's viewpoints. I'm not saying that you are a victim of this, but many teens are, and this passes away as we age. This is yet another reason why to strongly consider elder perspectives.
But it is also important to note that you must assume nothing and question everything. I'm not saying to automatically trust elder's viewpoints as the holy truth, it's just important to keep my statement above in mind.
But it is also important to note that you must assume nothing and question everything. I'm not saying to automatically trust elder's viewpoints as the holy truth, it's just important to keep my statement above in mind.
A point to keep in mind about old codgers is that, "Yes", we also were young once, and pretty much thought along the same lines you do, and drew the same kinds of conclusions you kids do today. The same as did our fathers before us, our grandfathers, decades earlier, and so on. Just as this whole cycle will repeat itself with your own children... and then your grandchildren, et al.
So, it is somewhat logical to assume that we honestly did find that there was a better and more effectively accurate and ultimately productive way of approaching life and dealing with situations than we started with at your ages. (Otherwise you wouldn't get to inherit oodles of money we learned how to amass. LOL)
Thus, it seems logical to try and bear with us as we try to bear with you, and pass on some of those things we found that actually turned out to work quite well.
So, it is somewhat logical to assume that we honestly did find that there was a better and more effectively accurate and ultimately productive way of approaching life and dealing with situations than we started with at your ages. (Otherwise you wouldn't get to inherit oodles of money we learned how to amass. LOL)
Thus, it seems logical to try and bear with us as we try to bear with you, and pass on some of those things we found that actually turned out to work quite well.
I'm down with that. It wasn't for you to read here, anyway. Print it out, and tear it apart, section by section. And then go look at some of the other things written by other people on the same subject. I usually read no less than 6 understandings (interpretations?) of something... often a dozen, or more.
The doctrine of judgement and punishment is interesting and also dangerous.
The lake of fire is mentioned in revelation, and called the second death. Death is destruction, the end of life.
The only reference to torment in fire for humans is the parable of Lazarus. But the location is Hades, or the place between death and judgement. Taking this idea, torment here is limited, until death and hades are thrown into the lake of fire
In revelation the devil, the beast and the false prophet are thrown in and tormented day and night forever.
This is the only reference to absolute eternal torment for any creature.
If John believed the 2nd death would have meant eternal torture for the unsaved he would have said that, rather than just death.
If you read the promises they are all about eternal life, though the phrase eternal punishment is used. The eternal punishment is the 2nd death, from which there is no resurrection.
What is the punishment for sin in this world? Death, the taking away of life.
Personally I think the Lord is just and has decided what he has decided, and however it falls, I would rather have life than any alternative. I do doubt that the enfeebled, the insane, those who knew nothing and gained nothing should be sent to a place of torture for things they did with no other options. It makes more sense that one life is lived and then the end, unless you are given eternal life, which is the hope we are called to. If I am wrong I ask the Lord to help my unbelief but even the bible seems unclear, which indicates the complexities here are more than can be revealed.
The lake of fire is mentioned in revelation, and called the second death. Death is destruction, the end of life.
The only reference to torment in fire for humans is the parable of Lazarus. But the location is Hades, or the place between death and judgement. Taking this idea, torment here is limited, until death and hades are thrown into the lake of fire
In revelation the devil, the beast and the false prophet are thrown in and tormented day and night forever.
This is the only reference to absolute eternal torment for any creature.
If John believed the 2nd death would have meant eternal torture for the unsaved he would have said that, rather than just death.
If you read the promises they are all about eternal life, though the phrase eternal punishment is used. The eternal punishment is the 2nd death, from which there is no resurrection.
What is the punishment for sin in this world? Death, the taking away of life.
Personally I think the Lord is just and has decided what he has decided, and however it falls, I would rather have life than any alternative. I do doubt that the enfeebled, the insane, those who knew nothing and gained nothing should be sent to a place of torture for things they did with no other options. It makes more sense that one life is lived and then the end, unless you are given eternal life, which is the hope we are called to. If I am wrong I ask the Lord to help my unbelief but even the bible seems unclear, which indicates the complexities here are more than can be revealed.
I really dont think I made a hastey judgement. A forum is a discussion group. So I really think it was reasonable that I think a Teen Forum was a discussion group for teens. I felt good about that. If if what u say is true that, nope, its a discussion group for anyone of any age - well OK CC makes the rules but for me that changes things. Anyway dw I wont be making more posts.
Oh n In case you still think its an open to all ages forum here - heres the administrators Forum Rules . Please do not hang out where you do not belong. 9. Please do not use the Teens chat room unless you are between 13 and 19 years old. And please do not use the Singles chat room unless you are single and 18 or older. (The other chat rooms are for general fellowship and are open to all
i fully agree with zoii.
Came to this thread because of the title, however this is a teen forum for teens to chat about teen stuff. if they wanted us oldies opinions they would post in the main forum.
One has to wonder the motives of this thread starter who seems to be looking for a more of a mature persons responses why they have started the thread in the teens forum and not the adults forum.
if a teen wants our opinions, i'm sure they smart enough to post on the main forum. maybe we all forget being teens.
they need their own space, to deal with their own stuff, the last thing they want is to hear the oldies opinions which is why they have their own forum.
kudos to you zoii for speaking up and reminding us oldies. i for one absolutely get it and respect it. i wish i had this as a kid where teens could just rap with other teens with no worries of being creeped on by the adults.
i think we oldies, above 19 should respect the teen forum and vacate. if they want our opinions and experience, we need to trust that that will post in the main forum.
Christianity is about love and resect, so lets be Christians and love and respect the teens in the best way we can, and let them have their own space.
God bless
Came to this thread because of the title, however this is a teen forum for teens to chat about teen stuff. if they wanted us oldies opinions they would post in the main forum.
One has to wonder the motives of this thread starter who seems to be looking for a more of a mature persons responses why they have started the thread in the teens forum and not the adults forum.
if a teen wants our opinions, i'm sure they smart enough to post on the main forum. maybe we all forget being teens.
they need their own space, to deal with their own stuff, the last thing they want is to hear the oldies opinions which is why they have their own forum.
kudos to you zoii for speaking up and reminding us oldies. i for one absolutely get it and respect it. i wish i had this as a kid where teens could just rap with other teens with no worries of being creeped on by the adults.
i think we oldies, above 19 should respect the teen forum and vacate. if they want our opinions and experience, we need to trust that that will post in the main forum.
Christianity is about love and resect, so lets be Christians and love and respect the teens in the best way we can, and let them have their own space.
God bless
If you checkout the threads in the teens forum, you can see that the adults don't post unless they have experience with the issue that the OP is having or maybe experience with something similar. Or, when such delicate topics come up like the one in this thread. I haven't seen the adults come here to chit chat with us, which can be creepy. I have just seen them offer advices and help. In one of the recent threads, one of the adults posted their advice and before she posted it, she said that she normally doesn't post in the teens forum but the issue presented by the OP in that thread was something she had gone through so she posted her experience and how she got through it. Now, when they are advising us about the Bible or something serious, they would talk very seriously and speak out the truth about us, which is what I think you mean by hammering. It's for our own good, hammering from time to time is needed.
I welcome hammering and advising because it can help me be someone better, but like the OP mentioned, I won't just assume anything an adult would say, I need to be convinced. If you want to start off a thread in the teens forum and don't want any adults posting, you can put up your title in such a manner 'Your title (teens only)' or something like that. Adults have their forums to chat or to post a thread or whatever. But there would be teens that want adult opinions as well right? Definitely the way you and me think when an adult post here is different, I just want you to understand that they are not here to creep us or anything of that sort but to offer help ONLY. There would be issues where I just want teens opinion and wouldn't want any adults there, don't worry, I think we all have that, but this thread is not of that sort.
I welcome hammering and advising because it can help me be someone better, but like the OP mentioned, I won't just assume anything an adult would say, I need to be convinced. If you want to start off a thread in the teens forum and don't want any adults posting, you can put up your title in such a manner 'Your title (teens only)' or something like that. Adults have their forums to chat or to post a thread or whatever. But there would be teens that want adult opinions as well right? Definitely the way you and me think when an adult post here is different, I just want you to understand that they are not here to creep us or anything of that sort but to offer help ONLY. There would be issues where I just want teens opinion and wouldn't want any adults there, don't worry, I think we all have that, but this thread is not of that sort.
