Is the old testament Anti-Women

[zoii]

Id like to hear the opinion of girls whether they too find parts of the bible intolerable. Some sections are so clearly sexist I feel like throwing the bible in the corner of my room. So many verses require women to be submissive, shut your mouth, and take your place behind a man or you will receive the severest of punishments. Surely this has no place in todays life. And if it has no place then why isn't it deleted from texts. I am repeatedly told every word of the bible is literal and must be obeyed - Well girls tell me what you think of these

Women - Keep your mouths shut
Let the women learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.” (I Timothy 2:11-14)

Your unclean when you give birth - but your doubly unclean if the child is a female. Whats that saying about girls
“Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, If a woman have conceived seed, and born a man child: then she shall be unclean seven days; according to the days of the separation for her infirmity shall she be unclean.” (Leviticus 12:2)
“But if she bear a maid child, then she shall be unclean two weeks, as in her separation: and she shall continue in the blood of her purifying threescore and six days.” (Leviticus 12:5)


The husband is the head and you will do as your told including when it comes to sex
“Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in everything.” (Ephesians 5:22-24)

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica]"But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God."[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica] (I Corinthians 11:3)
[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica]"For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man. Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man."[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica] (I Corinthians 11:8-9)[/FONT]


Apparently Women are doomed to suffering
“Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.” (Genesis 3:16)

If your father is a pastor, please ensure you stay a virgin or according to the bible you should be burned
"And the daughter of any priest, if she profane herself by playing the whore, she profaneth her father: she shall be burnt with fire."[FONT=Arial, Helvetica] (Leviticus 21:9)

[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]Rape: This passage is about addressing an angry mob and the dad says.. Ok here take my daughter and gang rape her. The bible provides no sympathy for the raped girl. In the other example if a virgin is taken by some guy - ok he can buy his way out but has to marry her. And further verses about rape and slavery.
"Behold, here is my daughter a maiden, and his concubine; them I will bring out now, and humble ye them, and do with them what seemeth good unto you: but unto this man do not so vile a thing. But the men would not hearken to him: so the man took his concubine, and brought her forth unto them; and they knew her, and abused her all the night until the morning: and when the day began to spring, they let her go."[FONT=Arial, Helvetica] (Judges 19:24-25)

"If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silvers, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days."[FONT=Arial, Helvetica] (Deuteronomy 22:28-29)

"When you go out to war against your enemies and the LORD, your God, delivers them into your hand, so that you take captives, if you see a comely woman among the captives and become so enamored of her that you wish to have her as wife, you may take her home to your house. But before she may live there, she must shave her head and pare her nails and lay aside her captive's garb. After she has mourned her father and mother for a full month, you may have relations with her, and you shall be her husband and she shall be your wife. However, if later on you lose your liking for her, you shall give her her freedom, if she wishes it; but you shall not sell her or enslave her, since she was married to you under compulsion."
(Deuteronomy 21:10-14)

And what am I supposed to think about this
"Give me any plague, but the plague of the heart: and any wickedness, but the wickedness of a woman."[FONT=Arial, Helvetica] (Eccles. 25:13)

[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica][FONT=Arial, Helvetica][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]Deuteronomy as you can see isn't my favourite book of the bible. I particularly hate the verse describing how a girl who is raped was put to death for not screaming loud enough

You get my point - So...surely no one would condone any of this. Surely these ugly verses have no place in teaching me to be a decent person and to love. Do they have any value to you girls - am I mistaken in my feelings about this?[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]

 

[psychomom]

hi, zoii

i wonder if you'd care to make an observation?
where in this world do you see women having the most freedom?
in which parts of the world do you feel women are least oppressed?

 

[zoii]

hi, zoii

i wonder if you'd care to make an observation?
where in this world do you see women having the most freedom?
in which parts of the world do you feel women are least oppressed?

Id say in the western world. I'm not sure but I think your suggesting that women in countries where Christianity is the main religion, are less oppressed. I'd agree totally. And your point suggests we disregard those passages in the bible. So - cant we ignore them - why am I told to take them literally on the one hand, while on the other you and others point out we don't do those things and ignore those versus. I'm struggling to see how they help women and help me be a loving person.

 

[psychomom]

Id say in the western world. I'm not sure but I think your suggesting that women in countries where Christianity is the main religion, are less oppressed. I'd agree totally. And your point suggests we disregard those passages in the bible. So - cant we ignore them - why am I told to take them literally on the one hand, while on the other you and others point out we don't do those things and ignore those versus. I'm struggling to see how they help women and help me be a loving person.

you're a very smart young woman.

yes, that was my point. where the Gospel has gone forth and been received and lived out, life for people has improved. not for women only, but to a great extent, children as well. (men, too lol)

i don't mean to suggest we disregard any of the Bible, but it takes some time and context to really understand it all.

i know i'm still trying.

one thing i will say...that Judges passage...do you think God approves such behavior?
i think it's safe to say that our Righteous God definitely does not.

 

[Channa]

I'd suggest to post this in the biblestudyforum

 

[psychomom]

I'd suggest to post this in the biblestudyforum

it can be such a minefield there at times.

just my opinion, but i think zoii is doing just fine.

 

[zoii]

you're a very smart young woman.

yes, that was my point. where the Gospel has gone forth and been received and lived out, life for people has improved. not for women only, but to a great extent, children as well. (men, too lol)

i don't mean to suggest we disregard any of the Bible, but it takes some time and context to really understand it all.

i know i'm still trying.

one thing i will say...that Judges passage...do you think God approves such behavior?
i think it's safe to say that our Righteous God definitely does not.

TY for your nice words. About Judges - I totally agree with you - Surely GOD doesn't approve of this. I find this passage so awful it makes me sick to my stomach. Surely no one can tell me I must take this literally. If all that's true then - why have it in the bible. For someone like me I feel I want to tear the page out n scream at the bible.

 

[psychomom]

TY for your nice words. About Judges - I totally agree with you - Surely GOD doesn't approve of this. I find this passage so awful it makes me sick to my stomach. Surely no one can tell me I must take this literally. If all that's true then - why have it in the bible. For someone like me I feel I want to tear the page out n scream at the bible.

agreed.

i believe we take it literally as in 'it happened', never to recommend such actions.
passages like that show me, personally, just how depraved humans are (i am),
and how desperately we need the Righteousness of Christ.

which, thank God, we have been given. ♥

 

[jennymae]

When the Bible was written society was nothing like society of today. We are lucky to be living our lives in a civilized world. This be not the case for a lot of people, not even today. Because we are living in such a well organized part of the world, we can go on bickering about Bible verses and how to interpret them without facing consequences. The Bible's contemporary world was a man's world, like it or not. I do not think women had much of a say. And any 2015 society not well organized and civilized is a man's world, and being a woman in such a society is not easy. When there is a lack of rules and law enforcement, we, the women, find ourselves in a situation where we will be putting our trust and faith in men willingly or not. They will not always meet our required standards, and there will be few, if any, ways of enforcing those standards. We are taking our rights for granted here, but they can be gone tomorrow. Due to this unpleasant facts I am praising the good Lord every day for bringing me into the society He did...because living in our western society is like Heaven on Earth compared to the alternatives.

 

[zoii]

So Jenny - are you pretty much saying the common sense thing to do is to discard those versus - which i'd happily do..well I actually do do because I cant stomach them.

 

[psychomom]

And any 2015 society not well organized and civilized is a man's world, and being a woman in such a society is not easy.

i know this to be true.
i can only imagine what it was like for my mom and my grandmothers.

yet i have hope... if things have improved so much for us, how much more might they improve for our daughters and granddaughters?

 

[zoii]

i know this to be true.
i can only imagine what it was like for my mom and my grandmothers.

yet i have hope... if things have improved so much for us, how much more might they improve for our daughters and granddaughters?

I think I'll just call u mum..calling u psychomom just doesn't feel right. There is so much more we need to see happen in this world. While Jenny is right it can be oppressive in developing nations, it can be equally violent and oppressive in our countries too. Lots of women suffer at the hands of men and its why I feel so sensitive about the Christian community insisting those awful passages stay in the bible. I just cant see they serve any good purpose

 

[psychomom]

I think I'll just call u mum..calling u psychomom just doesn't feel right. There is so much more we need to see happen in this world. While Jenny is right it can be oppressive in developing nations, it can be equally violent and oppressive in our countries too. Lots of women suffer at the hands of men and its why I feel so sensitive about the Christian community insisting those awful passages stay in the bible. I just cant see they serve any good purpose

lol...you can call me ellie, if you wish, but mum would be an honor.

people suffer....children suffer....strong men oppress weaker men.

those passages serve as a reminder to me that this world is broken (by us ).
it is not what God intended in the beginning... at all.
they remind me God is Holy, Good and Just. He will not tolerate this evil world forever.

and the Lord Jesus has already begun making all things new!

 

[jennymae]

So Jenny - are you pretty much saying the common sense thing to do is to discard those versus - which i'd happily do..well I actually do do because I cant stomach them.

I think we need to ask ourselves two questions: Are those places in the Bible significantly Gospel connected? Or are they more remote?

 

[Jimbone]

Most the time when I see this topic come up it’s only the “bad verses” brought up and there is never any mention of how God told us to treat our wives.

Ephesians 5:28
28 So husbands ought also to love their own wives as their own bodies. He who loves his own wife loves himself; 29 for no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as Christ also does the church

1 Peter 3:7
7 You husbands in the same way, live with your wives in an understanding way, as with someone weaker, since she is a woman; and show her honor as a fellow heir of the grace of life, so that your prayers will not be hindered.

Colossians 3:19
19Husbands, love your wives and do not be embittered against them.

Ecclesiastes 9:9
9Enjoy life with the woman whom you love all the days of your fleeting life which He has given to you under the sun; for this is your reward in life and in your toil in which you have labored under the sun.
These are never mentioned for some reason.

I also feel there are very good reasons for those other verses to be in there, but with todays “women are superior” attitude amongst many feminist these days they are just looked at with total distain no matter what. Now please understand I’m not saying that a woman should submit to anything any man says or anything like that, but as you’re supposed to submit to your husband your husband is supposed to submit to God. Should we feel offended too? If EVERYONE is submitting to Gods plan, it’s been my experience that He blesses the family. It’s bigger to me personally then just looking at the few verses mentioned and getting upset at Gods word.

 

[Jeff_56]

read hebrews, revelation, and see the women of faith and what GOD'S WORD says about them, and about others, about the end result of not honoring GOD'S WORD. -- the world doesn't like most parts of GOD'S WORD (not just about women),

but no one else gives life, and no one else has the words of eternal life.

the prejudice against what GOD'S WORD says is emotional, not based in true knowledge nor based in experience with Yahweh(God) through Yahshua(Jesus) Who gave His Life for mankind(most mankind(and womankind) REJECTS the MESSIAH, the ONLY ONE who can save them)

 

[zoii]

Most the time when I see this topic come up it’s only the “bad verses” brought up and there is never any mention of how God told us to treat our wives.

Ephesians 5:28
28 So husbands ought also to love their own wives as their own bodies. He who loves his own wife loves himself; 29 for no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as Christ also does the church

1 Peter 3:7
7 You husbands in the same way, live with your wives in an understanding way, as with someone weaker, since she is a woman; and show her honor as a fellow heir of the grace of life, so that your prayers will not be hindered.

Colossians 3:19
19Husbands, love your wives and do not be embittered against them.

Ecclesiastes 9:9
9Enjoy life with the woman whom you love all the days of your fleeting life which He has given to you under the sun; for this is your reward in life and in your toil in which you have labored under the sun.
These are never mentioned for some reason.

I also feel there are very good reasons for those other verses to be in there, but with todays “women are superior” attitude amongst many feminist these days they are just looked at with total distain no matter what. Now please understand I’m not saying that a woman should submit to anything any man says or anything like that, but as you’re supposed to submit to your husband your husband is supposed to submit to God. Should we feel offended too? If EVERYONE is submitting to Gods plan, it’s been my experience that He blesses the family. It’s bigger to me personally then just looking at the few verses mentioned and getting upset at Gods word.

With respect - I have never indicated there arent positive verses. This isn't about the good works of the bible. This is about passages that strike at a womans heart that my generation and other generations of women, feel may no longer have a place. This is about passages that are too commonly misused and the result of abuse can be seen by a string of women across my country and others. This is about the offense I personally feel when I read those passages and the distress I feel, and why I posted to see if other women feel the same.

 

[zoii]

@ Jimbone - but with todays “women are superior” attitude amongst many feminist these days they are just looked at with total distain no matter what.

This bit you wrote doesn't help. By adding this line youre somehow saying I am connected to some sort of radical feminist group who feel superior. You should know that when that's said it seems like its trying to detract from the argument im making. I'm part of todays women even though I'm just 14. Todays women according to you act superior. If I want to help women n the cause of women it seems that gives me a label of feminist. I don't mind that label except you then had to add the bit that feminists (and obviously myself) are full of distain. You know you would have made a lot better argument if you left out that nonsense. I cant help see it as an attack. It didn't help your point it ruined it

 

[zoii]

read hebrews, revelation, and see the women of faith and what GOD'S WORD says about them, and about others, about the end result of not honoring GOD'S WORD. -- the world doesn't like most parts of GOD'S WORD (not just about women),

but no one else gives life, and no one else has the words of eternal life.

the prejudice against what GOD'S WORD says is emotional, not based in true knowledge nor based in experience with Yahweh(God) through Yahshua(Jesus) Who gave His Life for mankind(most mankind(and womankind) REJECTS the MESSIAH, the ONLY ONE who can save them)

Its no surprise Jeff that the ones responding to this so negatively...despite I might add, requesting the opinion of my sisters, is men. Jeff I could say a lot but, all I can say is I acknowledge your opinion but don't accept it because all your saying is...its GODs words..OBEY....n that kinda reinforces my fears.

 

[kaylagrl]

Id like to hear the opinion of girls whether they too find parts of the bible intolerable. Some sections are so clearly sexist I feel like throwing the bible in the corner of my room. So many verses require women to be submissive, shut your mouth, and take your place behind a man or you will receive the severest of punishments. Surely this has no place in todays life. And if it has no place then why isn't it deleted from texts. I am repeatedly told every word of the bible is literal and must be obeyed - Well girls tell me what you think of these

Women - Keep your mouths shut
Let the women learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.” (I Timothy 2:11-14)

Your unclean when you give birth - but your doubly unclean if the child is a female. Whats that saying about girls
“Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, If a woman have conceived seed, and born a man child: then she shall be unclean seven days; according to the days of the separation for her infirmity shall she be unclean.” (Leviticus 12:2)
“But if she bear a maid child, then she shall be unclean two weeks, as in her separation: and she shall continue in the blood of her purifying threescore and six days.” (Leviticus 12:5)


The husband is the head and you will do as your told including when it comes to sex
“Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in everything.” (Ephesians 5:22-24)

"But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God." (I Corinthians 11:3)

"For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man. Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man." (I Corinthians 11:8-9)


Apparently Women are doomed to suffering
“Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.” (Genesis 3:16)

If your father is a pastor, please ensure you stay a virgin or according to the bible you should be burned
"And the daughter of any priest, if she profane herself by playing the whore, she profaneth her father: she shall be burnt with fire." (Leviticus 21:9)

Rape: This passage is about addressing an angry mob and the dad says.. Ok here take my daughter and gang rape her. The bible provides no sympathy for the raped girl. In the other example if a virgin is taken by some guy - ok he can buy his way out but has to marry her. And further verses about rape and slavery.
"Behold, here is my daughter a maiden, and his concubine; them I will bring out now, and humble ye them, and do with them what seemeth good unto you: but unto this man do not so vile a thing. But the men would not hearken to him: so the man took his concubine, and brought her forth unto them; and they knew her, and abused her all the night until the morning: and when the day began to spring, they let her go." (Judges 19:24-25)

"If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silvers, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days." (Deuteronomy 22:28-29)

"When you go out to war against your enemies and the LORD, your God, delivers them into your hand, so that you take captives, if you see a comely woman among the captives and become so enamored of her that you wish to have her as wife, you may take her home to your house. But before she may live there, she must shave her head and pare her nails and lay aside her captive's garb. After she has mourned her father and mother for a full month, you may have relations with her, and you shall be her husband and she shall be your wife. However, if later on you lose your liking for her, you shall give her her freedom, if she wishes it; but you shall not sell her or enslave her, since she was married to you under compulsion."
(Deuteronomy 21:10-14)

And what am I supposed to think about this
"Give me any plague, but the plague of the heart: and any wickedness, but the wickedness of a woman." (Eccles. 25:13)

Deuteronomy as you can see isn't my favourite book of the bible. I particularly hate the verse describing how a girl who is raped was put to death for not screaming loud enough

You get my point - So...surely no one would condone any of this. Surely these ugly verses have no place in teaching me to be a decent person and to love. Do they have any value to you girls - am I mistaken in my feelings about this?

May I make a few observations? Im sure some will argue them but I'll give you my take on them and I have been a Christian for many years and sat under a lot of learned pastors.

1.Women - Keep your mouths shut- I have several female pastors in my family. If there is a man there to be a pastor then I think that is best. As far as women being silent I believe that refers to the time in which they were living. They were talking to new Christians then and there needed to be order in the church.I dont believe that meant women should never open their mouths in church or preach.If that is so Catherine Booth of the Salvation Army and others like her were wrong. I dont think so.

2.Your unclean when you give birth - but your doubly unclean if the child is a female. Whats that saying about girl- I cannot say why there was a difference between male and female children but I will continue to look for an answer. Being unclean was of course because they didnt exactly have a hospital room and antiseptic at the time. I think it was also giving the woman time to recoup after the ordeal of childbirth. I dont think it was a slight against women in any way.

3.The husband is the head and you will do as your told including when it comes to sex- Yes,man was to be the head of the home but that is a huge responsibility! He answers to God for his actions as the protector of his wife and family. This does not give him the right to rule like a king. Nor does it mean a woman cant have her own mind and opinions. The Bible says God wont answer the prayer of a man who mistreats his wife. Its wrong for a man to force sex on his wife, he is to treat her with love and respect.

4. Apparently Women are doomed to suffering- Both Adam and Eve suffered for their sins. Adams sin brought a curse to the ground and he would have to work hard all his life because of it. Both parties suffered curses.

5.If your father is a pastor, please ensure you stay a virgin or according to the bible you should be burned- Remember we are talking about the Jews before Jesus came. The Jews were to be a pure race because they are Christs bloodline. Once Jesus came to die for sin all that was erased.The OT may seem harsh to us but God is Holy and cannot abide sin.That is why Jesus became our sacrifice,because we can never be perfect.

6.Rape: This passage is about addressing an angry mob and the dad says.. Ok here take my daughter and gang rape her. The bible provides no sympathy for the raped girl. - Actually there was sympathy for the girl read on into the next chapter to see what happened.And the daughter was given because they pounded on the door demanding sex with a man,homosexuality,which is an abomination and you can see how seriously they treated it in the Bible. A virgin was sacrificed to prevent the abomination.

7. In the other example if a virgin is taken by some guy - ok he can buy his way out but has to marry her-[FONT=Arial, Helvetica] If a woman was taken in rape no other man would want her because she was no longer a virgin. The man was to pay for his crime and to keep her as his wife the rest of his life. Pretty good deterrent to rape Id say.He becomes responsible for the woman he defiled,all of his life. I think it would make a man think twice.[/FONT]


Read up on these verses and I think you will have a better understanding of what is really being said. Remember the OT is before Christ came to save us from sin.Also they were living in a far different time than we live in today.