Sorry I wasn't trying to accuse you or even suggest you were trying to do that. My son has been dealing with this same thing the last couple days and it was fresh on my mind. I do see how you and others could think that’s what I was trying to say so I apologize I honestly wasn't even trying to suggest you were one of these people. I didn't mean to offend you or was I attacking you personally. It’s just such a prevalent attitude in our society today, and much of the time it’s were these arguments originate, but I really wasn’t trying to accuse you of this. From the little bit you posted I wouldn’t put you in that category from what’s been said. Next time I will try to word it a little more clearly. Are you suggesting that the attitude I was referring to doesn't exist? Also your approval really isn't required for my point to stand, even though it wasn't meant towards you at all.
Is the old testament Anti-Women
- Thread starter zoii
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Sorry I wasn't trying to accuse you or even suggest you were trying to do that. My son has been dealing with this same thing the last couple days and it was fresh on my mind. I do see how you and others could think that’s what I was trying to say so I apologize I honestly wasn't even trying to suggest you were one of these people. I didn't mean to offend you or was I attacking you personally. It’s just such a prevalent attitude in our society today, and much of the time it’s were these arguments originate, but I really wasn’t trying to accuse you of this. From the little bit you posted I wouldn’t put you in that category from what’s been said. Next time I will try to word it a little more clearly. Are you suggesting that the attitude I was referring to doesn't exist? Also your approval really isn't required for my point to stand, even though it wasn't meant towards you at all.
Thanks Kaylagrl.
What you highlighted though is that of course don't apply now. Point 1 - you stated well that was relevant to the time so...ok not needed now.
Point 2 Again not needed now - n what the deal was where a girl birth was worth...who know its ridiculous
Point 3 - OK I accept you view - I totally disagree but I accept your view if ur comfortable with the concept of the man is the head of the relationship
Point 4 your explanation might have better traction if I didn't have to deal with this verse "Give me any plague, but the plague of the heart: and any wickedness, but the wickedness of a woman." (Eccles. 25:13)
Point 5 Again you say its not relevant to today because of the NT.
Point 6. I cant back your thoughts on this...the point you raised is certainly not the only one where rape goes uncriticised n more commonly the woman cops the punishment. and n 7. instead of sympathising the woman it says oh well shes of no worth to anyone now so u better buy her...like she has to marry her rapist - great story...n almost makes me wanna throw up.
Kaylagrl all Im saying is - the verses aren't helpful. they give no assistance to me or anyone I would think in todays society. I think leaving them opens women up to abuse...at the very least its a very ugly signal to women first reading the old testament. Why keep those verses
What you highlighted though is that of course don't apply now. Point 1 - you stated well that was relevant to the time so...ok not needed now.
Point 2 Again not needed now - n what the deal was where a girl birth was worth...who know its ridiculous
Point 3 - OK I accept you view - I totally disagree but I accept your view if ur comfortable with the concept of the man is the head of the relationship
Point 4 your explanation might have better traction if I didn't have to deal with this verse "Give me any plague, but the plague of the heart: and any wickedness, but the wickedness of a woman." (Eccles. 25:13)
Point 5 Again you say its not relevant to today because of the NT.
Point 6. I cant back your thoughts on this...the point you raised is certainly not the only one where rape goes uncriticised n more commonly the woman cops the punishment. and n 7. instead of sympathising the woman it says oh well shes of no worth to anyone now so u better buy her...like she has to marry her rapist - great story...n almost makes me wanna throw up.
Kaylagrl all Im saying is - the verses aren't helpful. they give no assistance to me or anyone I would think in todays society. I think leaving them opens women up to abuse...at the very least its a very ugly signal to women first reading the old testament. Why keep those verses
men are terrified also, today, all over the world. even on this forum, those men who reject GOD'S WORD because they are afraid.
being afraid of GOD'S WORD doesn't help them, nor you, unless it is a godly fear that leads to repentance and serving HIM (serving GOD)(by GRACE through FAITH in JESUS).
GOD loves men and women, and hates sin and hates the complete evil in society of sin that's all around us.
GOD gives the only 'solution' --- crucifying HIS SON JESUS, the MESSIAH SAVIOR KING.
GOD gives righteousness, peace and joy - completely, totally, overwhelmingly perfect righteousness, peace and joy,
along with eternal life (for all those who are called according to HIS PURPOSE (no one elses purpose!) and who love Him)...
yes, men(not just women) are terrified , afraid of GOD and HIS WORD, HIS justice, even of HIS mercy(this requires a lot more space and time and, truly, revelation) ..... everything of GOD --- men and women are afraid of, because the flesh is selfish, carnal, sinful, and opposed to GOD and responsible for CRUCIFYING JESUS.
man and women are incredibly wicked, evil, and lost. apart from JESUS all are lost , apart from GOD, and without hope in the world.......
and HIS WORD is terrifying apart from JESUS. in JESUS, HIS WORD is PERFECT, HOLY, TRUE, giving LIGHT and LIFE to the soul.
HIS WORD is different than man's word.
HIS WORD is different than men and women say.
HIS WORD is completely FOR salvation, FOR SALVATION of those who LOVE HIM.(and hate even their own lives, society, the world, sin, and the devil).....
HIS WORD is not understood (by the world, the flesh, the unregenerate) .
HIS WORD is not understood without revelation.(Jesus, the apostles, and yochanan the immerser, and the rest of HIS WORD verifies this).
so you can tell GOD you don't like part of HIS WORD - He understands ... but don't reject Him-- no don't reject HIM.... ask HIM for LIFE, and for UNDERSTANDING ...... and accept that HIS WORD is hard (or even impossible) to accept and understand
until HE grants it.
being afraid of GOD'S WORD doesn't help them, nor you, unless it is a godly fear that leads to repentance and serving HIM (serving GOD)(by GRACE through FAITH in JESUS).
GOD loves men and women, and hates sin and hates the complete evil in society of sin that's all around us.
GOD gives the only 'solution' --- crucifying HIS SON JESUS, the MESSIAH SAVIOR KING.
GOD gives righteousness, peace and joy - completely, totally, overwhelmingly perfect righteousness, peace and joy,
along with eternal life (for all those who are called according to HIS PURPOSE (no one elses purpose!) and who love Him)...
yes, men(not just women) are terrified , afraid of GOD and HIS WORD, HIS justice, even of HIS mercy(this requires a lot more space and time and, truly, revelation) ..... everything of GOD --- men and women are afraid of, because the flesh is selfish, carnal, sinful, and opposed to GOD and responsible for CRUCIFYING JESUS.
man and women are incredibly wicked, evil, and lost. apart from JESUS all are lost , apart from GOD, and without hope in the world.......
and HIS WORD is terrifying apart from JESUS. in JESUS, HIS WORD is PERFECT, HOLY, TRUE, giving LIGHT and LIFE to the soul.
HIS WORD is different than man's word.
HIS WORD is different than men and women say.
HIS WORD is completely FOR salvation, FOR SALVATION of those who LOVE HIM.(and hate even their own lives, society, the world, sin, and the devil).....
HIS WORD is not understood (by the world, the flesh, the unregenerate) .
HIS WORD is not understood without revelation.(Jesus, the apostles, and yochanan the immerser, and the rest of HIS WORD verifies this).
so you can tell GOD you don't like part of HIS WORD - He understands ... but don't reject Him-- no don't reject HIM.... ask HIM for LIFE, and for UNDERSTANDING ...... and accept that HIS WORD is hard (or even impossible) to accept and understand
until HE grants it.
true in that is was not a slight against women in any way.
GOD'S WORD is the BEST for men and women, and the ONLY way to find LIFE and ETERNAL LIFE.
NOT religion though - not rcc(which is the worst for mankind and for men everywhere),
and
perhaps the thoughts that GOD'S WORD is not best for women is
because of religious teachings received as a child, and religious examples which are
not in line at all with GOD'S WORD --- GOD'S WORD is PERFECT.
mankind is stupid.
however, tangent about >
midwives in europe 500 years ago, and today,
almost all through history give or take a little,
and childbirth in Israel thousands of years ago, when Yahweh guided them,
had a better track record than modern day hospitals in the untied states have had ever since the hospitals were started. (and the hospitals are getting , overall, worse by far, not just a little, for childbirthing and many other things they practice).....
GOD'S WORD is the BEST for men and women, and the ONLY way to find LIFE and ETERNAL LIFE.
NOT religion though - not rcc(which is the worst for mankind and for men everywhere),
and
perhaps the thoughts that GOD'S WORD is not best for women is
because of religious teachings received as a child, and religious examples which are
not in line at all with GOD'S WORD --- GOD'S WORD is PERFECT.
mankind is stupid.
however, tangent about >
midwives in europe 500 years ago, and today,
almost all through history give or take a little,
and childbirth in Israel thousands of years ago, when Yahweh guided them,
had a better track record than modern day hospitals in the untied states have had ever since the hospitals were started. (and the hospitals are getting , overall, worse by far, not just a little, for childbirthing and many other things they practice).....
Hi Jimbone. TY for your response its appreciated. To answer your last question - I can honestly say I don't know what your referring to or who the distain belongs to. I'm from Australia and the big issues that are gender related are the Royal Commission into institutional paedophilia, and there is a national campaign led by the Australian of the Year about domestic violence. I'm sure you realise the perpetrators of both issues are almost exclusively men. For me these issues and the verses I wrote all add to the feelings I have about the vulnerability óf women in our society. I promise you that although ours is a good society, we have a long long way to go. I'd feel way better if those verses in the bible were not there. TY again for your kind reply.
Well 1 thing: some of the stuff you quoted is in the new testament. The fact of the matter is that the Bible was written at a time when women had less monetary value than a goat.
I understand your hurt over the "giving birth makes her unclean especially if it's a girl verse" that stuff hurts me too. I wonder about it still to this day. *hug*
I understand your hurt over the "giving birth makes her unclean especially if it's a girl verse" that stuff hurts me too. I wonder about it still to this day. *hug*
K
i also do not agree with many passages from the old testament. Many of the passages require a women to be submissive to her husband and imply that the sole purpose of the creation of women was to pleasure men and do their will. Yes women are made to companion men but our sole purpose is so much more than that. I think their is something to be said about how women can be leaders too and are not just physically made to attract men or please their sexual needs.
One of the most passionate issues I have is that there are too many verses that condone extreme acts of violence towards women. The verse that I added
"If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silvers, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days." (Deuteronomy 22:28-29)
This essentially acknowledges the raping of a girl. The girl is subsequently considered now tainted and of zero value. The rapist pays the father some money and then marries the girl he's raped. She has no say in this as her worth is zero. The thought of being raped and then forced to marry that rapist and bear his children is to me sickening. To then expect me to be a loving and dutiful wife to my rapist is just insane. Really why would any woman put up with these verses. Its disgusting.
"If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silvers, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days." (Deuteronomy 22:28-29)
This essentially acknowledges the raping of a girl. The girl is subsequently considered now tainted and of zero value. The rapist pays the father some money and then marries the girl he's raped. She has no say in this as her worth is zero. The thought of being raped and then forced to marry that rapist and bear his children is to me sickening. To then expect me to be a loving and dutiful wife to my rapist is just insane. Really why would any woman put up with these verses. Its disgusting.
P
hi again, zoii 
i wanted to suggest you focus on the New Covenant writings for a while?
see how our Lord Jesus gave grace and honor to women.
see how He treated women in His lifetime here, though He was under the Law.
sometimes when our thinking is better established in those things...
when we understand men and women stand equal in God's love...
it makes the rest a bit easier.
love,
mum
i wanted to suggest you focus on the New Covenant writings for a while?
see how our Lord Jesus gave grace and honor to women.
see how He treated women in His lifetime here, though He was under the Law.
sometimes when our thinking is better established in those things...
when we understand men and women stand equal in God's love...
it makes the rest a bit easier.
love,
mum
Hi Mom ty for replying again. I do realise that that Jesus restores a bit of sanity in the treatment of women...and if that's what we all want, again I ask ...does their come a time when those verses in the old testament add nothing but instead diminish the perception of the worth and treatment of women.
P
i just have a minute, but i think there's a way to harmonize the Word of God.
theologians call it 'the whole counsel of God'.
certainly it can take a loooong time, and no one is able to do it apart from the Holy Spirit.
you have to be a Christian, indwelt by the Spirit of God for that work to take place,
because it's His work.
for those in Christ....justified by the blood of Christ, it's a mistake to find one's primary identity in being a man or a woman or a doctor or a mother or anything else, really.
for those in Christ, that is our identity.... we belong to Him.
i have identity crises often
i have spiritual amnesia. i forget who i am, or more aptly put, Whose i am.
have you received Christ as your Savior? ♥
theologians call it 'the whole counsel of God'.
certainly it can take a loooong time, and no one is able to do it apart from the Holy Spirit.
you have to be a Christian, indwelt by the Spirit of God for that work to take place,
because it's His work.
for those in Christ....justified by the blood of Christ, it's a mistake to find one's primary identity in being a man or a woman or a doctor or a mother or anything else, really.
for those in Christ, that is our identity.... we belong to Him.
i have identity crises often
i have spiritual amnesia. i forget who i am, or more aptly put, Whose i am.
have you received Christ as your Savior? ♥
i just have a minute, but i think there's a way to harmonize the Word of God.
theologians call it 'the whole counsel of God'.
certainly it can take a loooong time, and no one is able to do it apart from the Holy Spirit.
you have to be a Christian, indwelt by the Spirit of God for that work to take place,
because it's His work.
for those in Christ....justified by the blood of Christ, it's a mistake to find one's primary identity in being a man or a woman or a doctor or a mother or anything else, really.
for those in Christ, that is our identity.... we belong to Him.
i have identity crises often
i have spiritual amnesia. i forget who i am, or more aptly put, Whose i am.
have you received Christ as your Savior? ♥
theologians call it 'the whole counsel of God'.
certainly it can take a loooong time, and no one is able to do it apart from the Holy Spirit.
you have to be a Christian, indwelt by the Spirit of God for that work to take place,
because it's His work.
for those in Christ....justified by the blood of Christ, it's a mistake to find one's primary identity in being a man or a woman or a doctor or a mother or anything else, really.
for those in Christ, that is our identity.... we belong to Him.
i have identity crises often
i have spiritual amnesia. i forget who i am, or more aptly put, Whose i am.
have you received Christ as your Savior? ♥