Oneness/Trinity?

[Dmurray]

I believe in the trinity. Why? I believe that it is realy quite obvious, how can there be Jesus, the holy spirit, and the Almighty God if they are only one entity? But at the same time, how can the three be seperate and we still claim to have one God? All three ARE the same being. God puts a lot of emphais on reconsiliation and unity, not just for Him, but for us also.

e.x. John 1:1 " In the beginning was the Word, and the word was with God, and the Word was God."
(In this passage "the Word" is Jesus, because Jesus is the living embodyment of God's word.

Couldn't that also mean though that God's name is in fact Jesus. As of these examples:

Joh 5:43 I am come in my Father's name,
Joh 10:30 I and my Father are one.

More, that Jesus is the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost
[FONT=&quot]Joh 5:43[FONT=&quot] I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Joh 10:30[FONT=&quot] I and my Father are one.[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Mat 1:21[FONT=&quot] And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins. (Mary named the SON Jesus Christ)[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Joh 14:26[/FONT][FONT=&quot] But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.[/FONT]
Just a thought. To me it seems clear that he is One God.

 

[G-man]

Couldn't that also mean though that God's name is in fact Jesus. As of these examples:

Joh 5:43 I am come in my Father's name,
Joh 10:30 I and my Father are one.

More, that Jesus is the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost
[FONT=&quot]Joh 5:43[FONT=&quot] I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Joh 10:30[FONT=&quot] I and my Father are one.[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Mat 1:21[FONT=&quot] And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins. (Mary named the SON Jesus Christ)[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Joh 14:26[/FONT][FONT=&quot] But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.[/FONT]
Just a thought. To me it seems clear that he is One God.

You make a very good point. But if you were to call God Jesus, it would be like calling the servant by the masters name. (not to say that Jesus is a slave) Jesus is a man, and he said himself that he came in the name of his father. He was under the direct authority of God, if they were the same person he wouldn't need communicate with God in any way, thus, all of the praying that he did right before he was crusified would be pointless because he would be praying to himself. At thesame time Jesus IS in fact God, and his thoughts are God's thoughts.

This particular subject is impossible to fully understand because it involves God and his way of thinking, which is immensely greater than any of ours. Not to say that I mind talking about it, just don't think that by the end of this conversation you will be any more enlightened than anyone else.

 

[Cako53]

Ok, I'm not arguing, and I don't believe that if you believe in the Trinity that you are going to hell. I just don't understand how the Trinity works, like even what Cako53 said, From what I gather what he said, God is the Father, God is the Son, and God is the Holy Ghost. Thus meaning he is all one thing, GOD. That's how I gather it, there are very subtle differences in the two. I'm not here, to argue, or to debate. Discussions are good to have, because it opens our mind to what other people believe so we can gather what makes sense to us. We must use each others knowledge of the Bible. Although there are some pretty far out ideas in the world, but that's why we must gather as much knowledge as there is, so we can come to what we know/believe. I know we must have faith, I do have faith, but discussions are good to have.

Oneness -
1. The quality or state of being one; singleness or wholeness.
2. Singularity; uniqueness.

Triunity or Trinity -

1. A group consisting of three closely related members. Also called triunity.
2. Trinity Theology. In most Christian faiths, the union of three divine persons, the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, in one God. Also called Trine.

You said you were confused, now you are cleared up. That is the difference between the two.

 

[fromtheinside0ut]

This particular subject is impossible to fully understand because it involves God and his way of thinking, which is immensely greater than any of ours. Not to say that I mind talking about it, just don't think that by the end of this conversation you will be any more enlightened than anyone else.

My thoughts exactly.

 

[Dmurray]

1. Is the word trinity in the Bible? No.
2. Does the Bible say that there are three persons in the Godhead? No.
3. Does the Bible speak of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost? Yes.
4. Do these titles as used in Matthew 28:19 mean that there are three separate and distinct persons in the Godhead? No, they refer to three offices, roles, or relationship to humanity.
5. Does the Bible use the word three in reference to God? Only one verse in the entire Bible does so-I John 5:7. It speaks of the Father, the Word (instead of Son), and the Holy Ghost, and it concludes by saying, "These three are one."
6. Does the Bible use the word one in reference to God? Yes, many times. For example, see Zechariah 14:9; Malachi 2:10; Matthew 23:9; Mark 12:29, 32; John 8:41; 10:30; Romans 3:30; I Corinthians 8:4; Galatians 3:20; I Timothy 2:5; James 2:19.
7. Can the mystery of the Godhead be understood? Yes. Romans 1:20; Colossians 2:9; I Timothy 3:16.
8. Has the Christian only one Heavenly Father? Yes. Matthew 23:9.
9. Then why did Jesus say to Philip, "He that hath seen me hath seen the Father" (John 14:9)? Because Jesus is the express image of God's person. Hebrews 1:3. The Greek word for personin this verse literally means "substance."
10. Does the Bible say that there are two persons in the Godhead? No.
11. Does the Bible say that all the Godhead is revealed in one person? Yes, in Jesus Christ. II Corinthians 4:4; Colossians 1:19; 2:9; Hebrews 1:3.
12. Is the mystery of the Deity hidden from some people? Yes. Luke 10:21-22.
13. Who is the Father? The Father is the one God, particularly as revealed in parental relationship to humanity. Deuteronomy 32:6; Malachi 2:10.
14. Where was God the Father while Jesus was on earth? The Father was in Christ. John 14:10; II Corinthians 5:19. He was also in heaven, for God is omnipresent.
15. Did the prophet Isaiah say that Jesus would be the Father? Yes. Isaiah 9:6; 63:16.
16. When God said, "Let us make man in our image" (Genesis 1:26), was He speaking to another person in the Godhead? No. Isaiah 44:24; Malachi 2:10.
17. How many of God's qualities were in Christ? All. Colossians 2:9.
18. How may we see the God who sent Jesus into the world? By seeing Jesus. John 12:44-45; 14:9.
19. Does the Bible say that Jesus is the Almighty? Yes. Revelation 1:8
20. Whom do some designate as the first person in the trinity? God the Father.
21. Whom do some designate as the last person in the trinity? The Holy Ghost. But Jesus said that He was the first and last. Revelation 1:17-18
22. How many persons did John see sitting on the throne in heaven? One. Revelation 4:2.
23. If Jesus is the first and the last, why did God say in Isaiah 44:6 that He was the first and the last? Because Jesus is the God of the Old Testament incarnate.
24. Did Jesus tell Satan that God alone should be worshipped? Yes. Matthew 4:10
25. Does the devil believe in more than one God? No. James 2:19.
26. Does the Bible say that God, who is the Word, was made flesh? Yes John 1:1, 14.
27. For what purpose was God manifested in the flesh? To save sinners. Hebrews 2:9, 14.
28. Was Jesus God manifested in the flesh? Yes. I Timothy 3:16.
29. Could Jesus have been on earth and in heaven at the same time? Yes. John 3:13.
30. Does the Bible say that there is but one Lord? Yes. Isaiah 45:18; Ephesians 4:5.
31. Does the Bible say that Christ is the Lord? Yes. Luke 2:11.
32. Does the Bible say that the Lord is God? Yes. I kings 18:39; Zechariah 14:5; Acts 2:39; Revelation 19:1.
33. How could the church belong to Jesus (Matthew 16:18) and yet be the church of God (I Corinthians 10:32)? Because Jesus is God in the flesh.
34. Will God give His glory to another? No. Isaiah 42:8.
35. Was there a God formed before Jehovah, or will there be one formed after? No. Isaiah 43:10.
36. What is one thing that God does not know? Another God. Isaiah 44:8.
37. What is one thing that God Cannot do? Lie. Titus 1:2.
38. How many Gods should we know? Only one. Hosea 13:4.
39. How many names has the Lord? One. Zechariah 14:9.
40. Is it good to think upon the name of the Lord? Yes. Malachi 3:16.
41. Does the Bible say that God alone treads upon the waves of the sea? Yes. Job 9:8
42. Why, then, was Jesus able to walk upon the Sea of Galilee (Matthew 14:25)? Because He is God the Creator. Colossians 1:16.
43. Is God the only one who can forgive sin? Yes. Isiah 43:25; Mark 2:7.
44. Why, then, could Jesus forgive sin in Mark 2:5-11? Because He is God the Savior.
45. Is Jesus the true God? Yes. I John 5:20.
46. If God and the Holy Ghost are two separate persons, which was the Father of Christ? Matthew 1:20 says that the Holy Ghost was the Father, while Romans 15:6, II Corinthians 11:31, and Ephesians 1:3 say that God was the Father. There is no contradiction when we realize that God the Father and the Holy Ghost are one and the same Spirit. Matthew 10:20; Ephesians 4:4; I Corinthians 3:16.
47. When Paul asked the Lord who He was, what was the answer? "I am Jesus." Acts 9:5.
48. When Stephen was dying, did he call God Jesus? Yes. Acts 7:59.
49. Did Thomas ever call Jesus God? Yes. John 20:28.
50. How could Jesus be the Savior, when God the Father said in Isaiah 43:11, "Beside me there is no Savior?" Because "God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself." II Corinthians 5:19.
51. Does the Bible say that Jesus was God with us? Yes. Matthew 1:23.
52. Did Jesus ever say, "I and my Father are one?" Yes. John 10:30.
53. Can it be proved scripturally that Jesus and the Father are one in the same sense that husband and wife are one? No. The Godhead was never compared to the relationship of a husband and wife. Jesus identified Himself with the Father in a way that husband and wife cannot be identified with each other. John 14:9-11.
54. Does the Bible say that there is only one wise God? Yes. Jude 25.
55. Does the Bible call the Holy Ghost a second or third person in the Godhead? No. The Holy Ghost is the one Spirit of God, the one God Himself at work in our lives. John 4:24; I Corinthians 3:16-17; 6:19; 12:13.
56. Can Trinitarians show that three divine persons were present when Jesus was baptized by John? Absolutely not. The one, omnipresent God used three simultaneous manifestations. Only one divine person was present--Jesus Christ the Lord.
57. Then what were the other two of whom Trinitarians speak? One was a voice from heaven; the other was the Spirit of God in the form of a dove. Matthew 3:16-17.
58. What did the voice say at Jesus' baptism? "Thou art my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased." Mark 1:11. As the Son of God, Jesus was the one God incarnate.
59. Does the Bible say that God shed His blood and that God laid down His life for us? Yes. Acts 20:28; I John 3:16. God was able to do this because He had taken upon Himself a human body.
60. The Bible says that God is coming back with all his saints (Zechariah 14:5) and also that Jesus is coming back with all his saints (I Thessalonians 3:13). Are two coming back? No. Only one is coming back--our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ. Titus 2:13.
*Taken from the Word Aflame Tract "60 Questions on the Godhead with Bible answers" #6125"

http://upci.org/doctrine/60Questions.asp

 

[fromtheinside0ut]

In regards to the word "Trinity" not being in the Bible, that is a bogus argument. "Oneness" is not in the Bible, either. We use a lot of words today that are not in the Bible. They are just an explanation for what the Bible says, not a direct quote. A lot of those ''disproven'' points don't even reference Trinitarian beliefs. I think many "Oneness" believers have quite a misconception about Trinitarian beliefs and should try to become more informed rather than just bashing and trying to disprove what they THINK the beliefs are.

 

[fromtheinside0ut]

http://upci.org/doctrine/60Questions.asp

You may want to take a look at this, then: http://www.bible.ca/trinity/trinity-modalism-UPC-60-questions-godhead.htm

 

[Dmurray]

From my understanding about history, from what I have learned, is that the Trinity was formed because when the Romans took over a country, they were allowed to keep 3 of their gods because countries then had polythiesm, so, whenever they took over, they wanted to be alike with other countries and not cause an upset and said ok, we will keep the father the son and the Holy Ghost.

In the book of Acts whenever someone is baptized it says that they are baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of their sins.
Only once does it say to baptize in the Name (note it is name, not names) of the father, the son, and the holy ghost (not in the name of the father, in the name of the son, and the name of the Holy Ghost, or not in the names of father, son, Holy Ghost) Could that be because the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost is Jesus Christ? To me that just makes sense logically

I've tried to have the trinity explained to me, I know people who grew up trinitarians, but I just can't grasp how it works.

Rev 4:2 And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.
If the Father and the Son were in heaven, wouldn't the son be sitting with him on the throne? But it says here that one sat on the throne.

God is omnipresent, meaning he is everywheres at all times, so wouldn't that mean that Jesus was God manifested in the flesh? and since he is omnipresent that he could be in Heaven also?

 

[fromtheinside0ut]

I'm going to assume you DIDN'T visit my posted link ;-]
No, Trinity is not about having three different Gods. I do believe you may be mistaken on your history. Even if that part of history is true, it is not what the Christian Trinity is for us. Trinity is a WORD used to explain God best we can. We don't worship this word, we worship God.

Also, it would be repetitive to say ''in the name'' three times in a row... if you were writing for an English class, would you? In any case, I urge you to take a look at the link I posted. I'll post it again if you like: http://www.bible.ca/trinity/trinity-modalism-UPC-60-questions-godhead.htm

I find that too often people arguing for "Oneness" will look into one verse of the Bible, but will not take into account the context of that verse. I do believe this link will cause you to see the big picture.

 

[Dmurray]

I read through about half of it, but I found it was still going into things more, or was reading into what thr oneness answer was.

Now yes repeating in the name of three times wouldn't be proper. But wouldnt you write in the nameS of? Because they are three different nameS are they not? Where as we say in the name of Jesus Christ because the name of the father, the name of the son, and the name of the Holy Ghost is Jesus. Why would Jesus' apostles be baptizing them like that? Peter started the Church, so was he baptizing people wrong the whole time? Or is it because Jesus is in fact those three things.

We look at more than one verse in the Bible, sometimes people just read into what the verses say tooo much, when it is right there the way that you read it.

 

[fromtheinside0ut]

You also have to realize that the King James Version of the Bible is translated from its original language. We don't have quite as many words in English to describe certain different things. That link that I posted was telling us that. You can't just say that the man-made translation is gold. You must also study why things were translated the way they were from the original. The writers of the Bible were man, led by God. King James was in no way, shape, or form led by God in his translation. Perhaps you could do some studying of the original text and translations so that you can better understand different things for yourself.

 

[Dmurray]

I do use the strongs to look up the origins of the word and what they originally did mean.

 

[studentofgod]

Mattew 28:19 the bible says Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: notice that "name" is singular that is because there is only one name for the three.The book of act tells us many times what that name is. In the book of Acts chapter 2 verse 38 the bible says Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. and that same pattern is followed many times in the book of Acts .
Act 8:16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)
Act 10:48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.
Act 19:5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
this is one of the ways the bible shows us that god is one
Its kind of like water water can be ice steam or water it can exist in three different form but it is still only one substance

 

[Wonderland]

I do not believe in the trinity. The word "trinity" is not in the Bible. Jesus is the SON of God, that's what the Bible says and that's what I believe. People who condemn me for not believing in the trinity are MANY! but I believe they need to read their Bible a little closer because my beliefs are between me and God (and I firmly believe he revealed this to me--I used to believe in the trinity) and judgment is reserved for him alone. So if you think I am not a Christian because I don't believe in the trinity you are acting presumptuously and arrogantly because you do not have rights to the word "Christian."

 

[Dmurray]

I do not believe in the trinity. The word "trinity" is not in the Bible. Jesus is the SON of God, that's what the Bible says and that's what I believe. People who condemn me for not believing in the trinity are MANY! but I believe they need to read their Bible a little closer because my beliefs are between me and God (and I firmly believe he revealed this to me--I used to believe in the trinity) and judgment is reserved for him alone. So if you think I am not a Christian because I don't believe in the trinity you are acting presumptuously and arrogantly because you do not have rights to the word "Christian."

What I believe is Jesus Is God. When I go to heaven I will see Jesus alone. Not God the Father, and Jesus beside him. But just one manifestation.

 

[shawntc]

Trinity.

In Genesis, the first name used for God was Elohim. El- is a singular (presumably male) prefix, but -im indicates plurality! Thus, it stands to reason that God is three in one. The closest analogy I can think of is, say, your earthly father. He can be seen in three different ways: to you, he's your father. To his wife, he is husband, and to his parents, he is son.

 

[Dmurray]

Trinity.

In Genesis, the first name used for God was Elohim. El- is a singular (presumably male) prefix, but -im indicates plurality! Thus, it stands to reason that God is three in one. The closest analogy I can think of is, say, your earthly father. He can be seen in three different ways: to you, he's your father. To his wife, he is husband, and to his parents, he is son.

Thats a perfect way to describe oneness . They are different roles or titles, but yet he is still one entity.

Where as the Trinity doctrine says that they are 3 separate entities. 3 co-equal co-eternal co-existent beings.

God Bless.

 

[pente_girl92]

My church just got done with a month long Bible study on Wednesday nights about Oneness.
There are SO SO many Scriptures verifying that Jesus Christ of the New Testament is the same God as Jehovah of the Old Testament.

Genesis 1:1 says, " In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth"

Revelation 22:21 says, " The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.

There is no doubt in my mind that it could just as easily say, " In the beginning Jesus Christ created the heaven and the earth"
Or, " The grace of our God be with you all. Amen.

Because God, Lord, Saviour,Holy Ghost, Holy Spirit, Alpha, Omega, Beginning, End, First, Last, Jehovah Jireh, Jehovah Nissi, I AM, Star, Root, The Voice of Truth, ETC..
I could go on and on, these are just TITLES that are in the Bible!
There is only ONE name and that is the name Jesus Christ.
& while we're on this subject.

Okay, there is ONE Name.
The Bible says there is ONE Baptism.
Acts 2:38 says, "...Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of your sins and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost!

Matthew 28:19 says, Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost

and 1 John 5:7 says, For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
If people would just ready that one!!!it sums it up!


John 1:1 says, In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.




Okay sorry if this is all over the place!it's been a very long day and I'm very tired!

& I used KJV

 

[phil36]

The Trinity. Anything else is heresy.

I totally agree Jordan.. and no one is debating you dmurry because you have already been debating in the bible discussion.

Phil

 

[fromtheinside0ut]

Just a little side note: I think it's demeaning and belittling to compare my omnipotent God to water, earthly men, or anything else you all decide to compare Him to... He is more than any of our little minds could ever comprehend...