Struggles in my life

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Calmador

Senior Member
Jun 23, 2011
945
40
28
#41
ty for taking the time to write to me and telling me about your journey. I am listening but I have faith in our scientists and my religion. So I am trying to bridge the gap. I'm finding it tough when both sides tell me you cant have both - yet that's what I want. I cant just say science has it wrong - the theories leading to the big bang are the same ones that allow us to send telescopes through space and understand the meaning of time and how its affected by speed and mass. So I really struggle when people tell me to throw away what science tells me when all of us use that same science when we use the internet or see an image from a space telescope.

You mentioned where did the mass come from to begin big bang - yayyyyyy - this is my point - here is a possible explanation to the marriage of science and Christianity - Big Bang started with singularity and singularity did NOT occur in space or a point in time - rather time and space began in the singularity. So like u said - where did it come from - I believe it was from GOD - genesis Chap 1.

But my struggles are that my beliefs in what I value as a human, and what I am learning in science, aren't marrying well with what I believe in my faith and I want them to - My hope is that as we all grow in our knowledge spiritually and scientifically this gap will close. Right now, despite the fact we all think we are so very clever, I believe we are like ignorant children and all of us have a lot to learn yet.

Oh and by the way - re debunking carbon isotope chemistry - it doesn't stop with a few thousand yrs it goes into millions and the chemistry is sound. Like any scientific projection it will express a projection with error limits. As for flesh preserving - do u remember the frozen mammoth that was found? I wanting to be careful rubbishing science because it is heavily evidence laden and all of use its outcomes in every aspect of our life. Its tough to say scientists are rubbish when they enrich our lives so much. Similarly I cant accept that scientists can dismiss my faith when it too enriches my life.

Anyway - I am struggling and I am keeping an open mind. I pray that no matter our opinions we all keep a space in our brain for knew knowledge which may amend what we think. In the mean time the conflict between the two views sometimes depresses me ... I mean seriously depresses me. I have other struggles that aren't suitable for here so its not just the science stuff...its also human values stuff.

Ty for your reply
Zoii

Your welcome, I enjoy doing this sort of stuff for people who want talk about it... especially the younger crowd :) I still feel like a kid sometimes so yeah haha

Anyways, this is why I'm really glad I studied a bit of philosophy instead of taking more biology classes. For starters... the mindset that God and science are at war is just false, like it's an either or battle... God or/either Science ( in the context that God exists) is just false. By default, if God exists... the supernatural and the natural would simply coexist. That's just a given... I don't know how else to explain that... it's not either or in this context.

It only takes a bad philosophy in order for a scientists science to be wrong. For example, centuries ago Greek astronomers believed that the earth was at the center of the universe and planets would circle around earth and made a loop at one point which was called the Ptolemaic system. It was the scientific belief at the time. Here's a simulator to see what I mean (click start simulator) .... http://astro.unl.edu/naap/ssm/animations/ptolemaic.swf

To get to the point... you can observe, but that doesn't mean your interpretation isn't faulty. Scientist can practice science but with a faulty interpretation... he/she could believe he/she has a scientific fact when in reality he/she doesn't. "Science" can easily be wrong because science is used by human beings with human error.

You treat a scientists as if he/she is incapable of error... take off scientific white coat... take off the goggles... take away the laboratory... take away the beakers and graduated cylinders and you have yourself a human being who is easily capable of making mistakes.

It's not wise to have 100% faith in a human being, perhaps SOME faith, but not 100% (even if God didn't exist... it still be wise NOT to have 100% faith in a human being... However, if God is real ( I believe he is real) then it's absolutely wise to have 100% faith in God who is all wise, good, and powerful.

I don't know about "carbon isotope chemistry." I was talking about Carbon dating 14 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiocarbon_dating

I remember hearing something about a mammoth finding... However, comparing the dinosaur tissue finding with the mammoth is a false analogy. The dinosaur tissue wasn't found frozen... it was found in the open field which seriously hurts the evolutionary model since the dinosaur tissue couldn't have survived millions of years in such conditions. That dinosaur tissue would've decayed a loooong time ago...

It's not that scientist are always rubbish.. but, that they can be rubbish. It's possible for scientists to be rubbish.

Don't be too sad... it'll be okay... just go step by step, slowly figuring this stuff out. One question at a time.

P.S. - Issac Newton... the most influential or one of the most influential scientist believed in God. I don't know if that helps.
 
Last edited:

Pilkington

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2015
640
99
28
#43
You definitely can accept science the big bang and evolution and still be a Christian. I probably should say I am a Christian and I am a scientist. I have been a Christian since I was 18 and I have a degree and PhD Pharmacology and worked as a post doc for over six years. I have met amazing scientists who are Christians, I guy who was a lecturer in genetics, an academic who works on sperm, a dear friend who is a consultant. Personally I do not believe in a young earth there is just too much evidence against this. Could God have used the big bang to create the universe I personally do not see why not. Could God have used evolution to create life yes do I personally believe in evolution yes and no. I have problems with evolution not from a faith point of view but a science point of view.

One of the posters gave a very good answer about women preaching etc and the fact it was to do with women asking their husbands questions during church and thus disrupting the service. Look at some of the women in the Bible. Look at the way women were treated by Jesus. Jesus' ministry was funded by women. The first person to witness the resurrection was a women. Women's evidence wasn't even admissible in court at that time. Paul refers to a number of women as co-workers and there are references to churches which met in women's houses. In the Old Testament, there is Deborah who was a judge and also the book of Esther is worth reading. Esther manages to save the whole Jewish people.

I don't believe if you accept God and Jesus and then sin you will end up going to hell. This side of eternity no believer is completely free from sin. If we confess our sins and ask for God's forgiveness he will forgive us. My salvation is based on what Jesus did for me on the cross. When God sees me he sees Jesus' righteousness. I suspect that not that many truly evil people repent at the last minute. If they do I have to accept it is between them and God (not easy I know). All I know is that God is perfectly just.

You mentioned how much certain news stories that grieve you and make you cry, Like the one of the 13 year old girl who was repeatedly raped by her father and church pastor. That is truly horrendous and I believe you have caught a glimpse of how God feels. God is there with the victim and grieves over what has happened and is angry however God gives us free will. Some people behave abhorrently. It distresses me whenever I hear stories of child abuse. I can't help but cry and get angry and turn to God in prayer. In the end of it I just have to let God deal with the situation and sometimes I just can't watch or listen to certain news stories.
 
L

LeonM

Guest
#44
So I am hoping I understand you all well, that my acceptance of science/big bang/evolution etc doesnt have to mean I am not a person of God. I can believe and support these things and thats Ok - or..is that not what you are saying. I know it seems like I am picking on small things but in fact I look at many issues in the bible and sometimes I just feel like...oh noooo surely not. I guess its particularly that way when it comes to the treatment of women in the old testament. I hoped that...well ok those mysoginist verses had value back then but not now - but then i read in forums like BDF where it talks about whether women should be allowed to talk in church or if they should be allowed to preach and it strikes at me very deeply.

I also find it hard to work through that I can accept god n Jesus, but if I sin in some way... my acceptance by god is cancelled - I go to hell. But yet someone who was terrible/evil all their life at the last minute repents..he walks into the arms of Jesus. I have real examples of this in my life that are so extreme it is really upsetting me to the point that I cry so much over this.
To the bible thing: Yes it's written like that in the bible, but there is a technique to deal with this called historic-critic Exegese. Which means that all written in the bible needs to be putten back in his historical context. Like with the women: for many thousand years it was normal/law that the wife "serves" the man. Women hadn't rights. And this is how you could deal with this. :)
 

Jenizona

Senior Member
Aug 8, 2015
629
28
0
#45
As a teenager... actually around your age, I struggled with lots of those things... except I'd be very angry at God. At one point I raised up my fist and said to God angrily, "Don't you care about what I'm going to do to them" ... I was on the verge of doing a great sin against some people. It would've probably messed me up.

I remember one struggle was evolution. I actually made peace with that idea by the idea that God could've made the universe through evolution. However, eventually I believed in the young earth model. I still struggled some... and Today, I'm much more certain due to arguments and evidence that I've found that counters the evolution model.

My point is I think you can be a Christian struggling about these controversial beliefs. I encourage you to search for those answers because THERE ARE ANSWERS!!! I wish I could scream it at the top of my lungs because so many teenagers seem to think there aren't good answers for a young earth model or to debunk evolution. THERE ARE ANSWERS!

For the big bang.... I'd ask anyone who believes in the big bang.... What came before the big bang??? What made the big bang possible??? Where did the mass of the big bang came from???? The scientific community doesn't have an answer. They don't know... but, often it's claimed to be absolutely true... intimidating teenagers like you and like they did me. However, I saw looked for opponents of evolution in order to see other arguments. One of the first explanations was that God could've used evolution to create. Another one was the gap theory... I don't remember the exact verse but in genesis, there's a verse that may have shown a lot of time passed by which may explain the age of the earth. Other have argued in discrediting radiometric dating to be unreliable based on testing it... and that this kind of dating method can give different different ages for the same thing. Carbon dating only goes thousands of years which doesn't exactly help evolution and as far as I've known is usually regarding as reliable. Recently, some scientists have discovered dinosaur tissue... dinosaur tissue! How could dinosaur meat exist??? Wouldn't it have decayed over millions of years? This has been one of the most serious blows to evolution as of late... Mark Armitage, one of the scientist who found dinosaur tissue was so confident in how harmful this was to evolution that he said, "The debate is over! Creationist win!"

Here's a video of Mark Amritage showing his findings

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1S_CU3ecNU

Also, here's another scientists, Dr. Mary Schweitzer, also found dinosaur tissue..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YwpNc3jcMqA

^^^ This punches the face of evolution... Dinosaur tissue doesn't last millions of years.

Here are some more resources that I've come across as struggled like yourself...

Bible Questions Answered

https://answersingenesis.org/

EveryStudent.com - Exploring Important Questions about Life and God

I was around your age when I found these... they helped :)

P.S. - I'd also recommend looking up Ravi Zacherias on youtube... he's quite an amazing philosopher on Christain beliefs as-well. Also... John Lennox is great and William Lane Craige.. PLease check all my recommendations... you'll be pleasantly surprised.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZD45uWxyF_Y

^^^ Ravi on evolution, philosophical relevant response

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXnRGSNmkeE

^^^ John on evolution

Please check em out okay :)

OH MY GOSH!! I just watched the first two videos on the dinosaur soft tissue, AMAZING! And for anyone who's thinking this is some agenda-ridden "young earth" propaganda, it is not! One of the videos is actually from MSNBC. Very cool!!

I also loved the first video on Ravi, and the amazing way they answered that young man in the audience. Very cool.

Okay, I just wanted to point out that I feel as if these videos, and your amazing posts, have been glossed over by other folks on this thread, unfortunately... I don't get the sense that anyone else watched them. Please take a few moments, folks, and watch them if you can! Very good stuff!
 
Apr 8, 2015
895
18
0
#46
To the bible thing: Yes it's written like that in the bible, but there is a technique to deal with this called historic-critic Exegese. Which means that all written in the bible needs to be putten back in his historical context. Like with the women: for many thousand years it was normal/law that the wife "serves" the man. Women hadn't rights. And this is how you could deal with this. :)
Ok so given historic Exegese and put it in the context of when it was written , I can conclude that the 'Men must Lead' to be nonsense in this day and age when women commonly have better careers than their husband or may well simply be a better leader. This is what your getting at? I do get that because many christians eat pork, wear clothing of mixed thread and a whole host of other things the bible says that we choose to ignore today. We dont go stoning anyone and we dont go blaming rape victims for the crime. I feel better with the concept you mention and can simply ignore those elements of the bible which either simply dont apply to todays world, or border on offensive (the passage where a rape victim is forced to marry her rapist is one that especially gets to me... I had that one explained to me the same way you did - it worked for reasons back then but we wouldnt do it now)
 

Calmador

Senior Member
Jun 23, 2011
945
40
28
#47
Ok so given historic Exegese and put it in the context of when it was written , I can conclude that the 'Men must Lead' to be nonsense in this day and age when women commonly have better careers than their husband or may well simply be a better leader. This is what your getting at? I do get that because many christians eat pork, wear clothing of mixed thread and a whole host of other things the bible says that we choose to ignore today. We dont go stoning anyone and we dont go blaming rape victims for the crime. I feel better with the concept you mention and can simply ignore those elements of the bible which either simply dont apply to todays world, or border on offensive (the passage where a rape victim is forced to marry her rapist is one that especially gets to me... I had that one explained to me the same way you did - it worked for reasons back then but we wouldnt do it now)
Zoii, the Bible in a way has two religions. The old testament vastly ignored now by Christians because the old testament is no longer the way to God. Christianity basically started after Jesus died and resurrected on the cross... aka the new testament. That being said, the new testament clearly supports the idea of husbands leading the family still. Here's some instructions as to what the relationship between husband and wife should look like...

Ephesians 5:21-33

[SUP]21 [/SUP]Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]Wives, submit yourselves to your own husbands as you do to the Lord. [SUP]23 [/SUP]For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. [SUP]24 [/SUP]Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her [SUP]26 [/SUP]to make her holy, cleansing[SUP][b][/SUP] her by the washing with water through the word, [SUP]27 [/SUP]and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless. [SUP]28 [/SUP]In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. [SUP]29 [/SUP]After all, no one ever hated their own body, but they feed and care for their body, just as Christ does the church— [SUP]30 [/SUP]for we are members of his body. [SUP]31 [/SUP]“For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh.”[SUP][c][/SUP] [SUP]32 [/SUP]This is a profound mystery—but I am talking about Christ and the church. [SUP]33 [/SUP]However, each one of you also must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband.

^^^ I highlighted verse 25 to show you that... while Christians wives are to be under authority of their Christian husbands... Christian wives are to be treated extremely well. Jesus Christ was willing to suffer torture and death for the Church... that's how a Christian husband should be love his wife. Personally, I think it's daunting to be married and to be expected to full-fill these requirements.

Also, many women ask... Why is it like this.. Here's the answer...

1 Timothy 2:12-14

[SUP]12 [/SUP]I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man;[SUP][a][/SUP] she must be quiet. [SUP]13 [/SUP]For Adam was formed first, then Eve. [SUP]14 [/SUP]And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner.

^^^ Adam was formed first and Eve fell to sin by eating the forbidden fruit. In genesis, one of the curses that God gave was that husband shall rule over wife.

Genesis 3:16-17

[SUP]16 [/SUP]To the woman he said,
“I will make your pains in childbearing very severe;
with painful labor you will give birth to children.
Your desire will be for your husband,
and he will rule over you.”
[SUP]17 [/SUP]To Adam he said, “Because you listened to your wife and ate fruit from the tree about which I commanded you, ‘You must not eat from it,’
“Cursed is the ground because of you;
through painful toil you will eat food from it
all the days of your life.
I also want to point out that Jesus Christ is in submission to God.... and Christians believe that both Jesus Christ and God are equal. I'd argue that if that's the case... we shouldn't view a wife who submits to her husband as lesser... since Jesus Christ also submits as-well.

Jesus Christ submits to God.... both are equal and one God
Wife submits to husband... both are equal and one flesh

^^^ This is analogy that is noticed by theologians and is highlighted in the Bible as-well... the relationship of husband wife is that of a picture of God actually. Here's the scripture that shows that....

1 Corinthians 11:3

But I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.

P.S. - As for the rape victim thing...

1. It wasn't forced but was an optional decision which the father made.

Exodus 22:16-17 “If a man seduces a virgin who is not betrothed and lies with her, he shall give the bride price for her and make her his wife. If her father utterly refuses to give her to him, he shall pay money equal to the bride price for virgins."

2. It was so the rapist takes responsibility for his actions. In those times, (today as-well to some extent) men would not marry a woman who was raped. She would likely never get married.

"Note that throughout the Old Testament no rape victim is ever recorded as being forced to marry a rapist. However it is plausible that there could be circumstances in which a father would choose to have his daughter marry a rapist. In 2 Samuel 13, Amnon, a son of David, rapes his half-sister, Tamar. Tamar was not forced to marry Amnon. Interestingly, though, Tamar seemed to have wanted to marry Amnon after the rape (2 Samuel 13:13-16). Why would she desire such a thing? In that culture, virginity was highly prized. It would have been very difficult for a woman who was not a virgin, and especially a woman who had been raped, to find a man to marry her. It seems that Tamar would have rather married Amnon than live desolate and single the rest of her life, which is what happened to her (2 Samuel 13:20). So Deuteronomy 22:28-29 could be viewed as merciful to the woman, who, because of the rape, would be considered unmarriageable. In that culture, a woman without a husband would have a very difficult time providing for herself. Unmarried women often had no choice but to sell themselves into slavery or prostitution just to survive. This is why the passage leaves marriage to the discretion of the father, because every situation is different, and it is better to be flexible than have a blanket rule." - from gotquestions.org

^^^ Does Deuteronomy 22:28-29 command a rape victim to marry her rapist?

Best wishes to ya Zoii
 
Apr 8, 2015
895
18
0
#48
@ Calmador - are you trying to wind me up? - why did u list all the verses that u know basically say:
Women shut your mouths - 1 Timothy 2:12-14 ;[SUP][a][/SUP] she must be quiet

Women Dont think you have the brains to teach anyone - [SUP]12 [/SUP]I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man

Women- you are under the AUTHORITY of your husbands - (your words) wow *deep calming breaths*


Im not even going to go into the rape stuff said in Deut - it distressing.


I'll just say simply - ty for your reply. I but I cannot accept the sentiment of the messages your selling.
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
#49
I just re-read your reply for the 4th time - I like it. "that guy I was with for a while" hahaha. Yup totally get that. I didn't reply directly to you but I should have. I know I might change my mind about how I feel about a marriage and men in general. I know in my brain that how I am might be because of past events for me. So - I'll try n reserve a space in my brain for change - right now I stiffen when a guy comes anywhere near me n I am so hypersensitive to girls who get hurt. One of the things I just cannot shake from my brain is the very recent thread I started over the 13yo girl who was raped repeatedly over a year - one of those men was her father and the other a pastor from a church in my city. I know I shouldn't let things like the news get to me but I have cried for this girl and I find this along with other aspects of the bible is making me struggle emotionally.

Anyway I just wanted to say ty to u - you've always been kind to me
Zoii

Well I try to be kind to everyone :) But especially the younger generation that are still trying to learn.The young girl you are talking about,I cant imagine what she had to go though.There is so much evil in the world.I dont know what punishment the law has given these men but you can be assured they will suffer Gods wrath in that final day.They will feel all the sorrow they caused and more.They may think they've gotten away with it,but they havent.
 

Calmador

Senior Member
Jun 23, 2011
945
40
28
#50
@ Calmador - are you trying to wind me up? - why did u list all the verses that u know basically say:
Women shut your mouths - 1 Timothy 2:12-14 ;[SUP][a][/SUP] she must be quiet

Women Dont think you have the brains to teach anyone - [SUP]12 [/SUP]I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man

Women- you are under the AUTHORITY of your husbands - (your words) wow *deep calming breaths*


Im not even going to go into the rape stuff said in Deut - it distressing.


I'll just say simply - ty for your reply. I but I cannot accept the sentiment of the messages your selling.
Zoii, I think your seeing implied attitudes that are not there...

"Shut your mouth" is very different from "she must be quiet."

"Women don't have any brains" is not said in the bible... That verse spoke about women teaching men.

The last one... I'd say guilty as charged. That's exactly what God expects of wives. Wives are to be under authority of their husbands. It's not a bad thing. For starters, we're all born under the authority of our parents. I love my parents and appreciated their guidance in my life. Secondly, by default, all Christians are under the authority of God. It's not something so... new or bad. A husband is meant to be responsible over his family... he's not suppose to do wrong in his leadership. He's meant to love his wife how Jesus loved us in his leadership.

Wanna just this one more time...

Jesus submits to God and are both one God

Wive submits to husband and are both one flesh

I don't see Jesus as lesser. I believe he is equal to God. We can easily accept the same of a wife. I think what you struggle with regarding submission are bad connotations that don't have to be true.
 
Apr 8, 2015
895
18
0
#51
well at least your making it plain how u see women - they need to be quiet - they should never teach men...and are under the authority of men.

You explained it to me several times - nicely i'll admit. But your missing the point of my thread - I knew yours and others attitude on this when I first wrote. The whole point of my thread was that I don't accept this. and what does that mean. It seems like your telling me that if I cant then Im not Christian. Repeating yourself doesn't change that I don't accept it - my question was about does that mean I cannot be Christian

If so then Well so be it - I wont live my life being silent, not educating others when I have a gift to be able to do it...and being under the authority of a man. I do not need the authorisation of a man to do what I think is right for myself or my family or my community. If that sends me to hell in yours or others eyes - well I don't accept that either.
 

Pilkington

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2015
640
99
28
#52
I believe that 1 Timothy 2:12-14 is used by some to stop women having authority in church however their many many passages which seemed to suggest that this an incorrect use of this passage.

Greet Andronicus and Junia, my fellow Jews who have been in prison with me. They are outstanding among the apostles, and they were in Christ before I was. Romans 16:7.

Junia is a female and is clearly identified as an apostle and hey apostles are identified as teaching and preaching etc in the church.

[ Personal Greetings ] I commend to you our sister Phoebe, a deacon of the church in Cenchreae. Romans 16:1

[SUP]24 [/SUP]Meanwhile a Jew named Apollos, a native of Alexandria, came to Ephesus. He was a learned man, with a thorough knowledge of the Scriptures. [SUP]25 [/SUP]He had been instructed in the way of the Lord, and he spoke with great fervor[SUP][a][/SUP] and taught about Jesus accurately, though he knew only the baptism of John. [SUP]26 [/SUP]He began to speak boldly in the synagogue. When Priscilla and Aquila heard him, they invited him to their home and explained to him the way of God more adequately. Acts 18

Priscilla and Aquila are a husband wife who Paul describes as co-workers in the gospel, a church meets in their house. Here it clearly states they both explained the way of God to Apollo. So clearly here is a women Priscilla teaching a man.

One of the reason's I have heard in way of explanation of the Timothy 2 passage is that these women were poorly educated, didn't know the scriptures well and so were more likely to be deceived.

Again I commend you to look at Deborah, she was a prophetess and judge, she ruled Israel including militarily and spiritually. So if women are not to be leaders what was God doing using Deborah.

Galations 3:28 [SUP]28 [/SUP]There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

I have heard and seen God use both men and women preachers. There are women on this site who preach in Church.
 

Pilkington

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2015
640
99
28
#53
For me there are a few core Christian beliefs all these are secondary issues. Another example is modes of baptism, baby vs adult and I have probably opened a whole can of worms there. There are certain things all Christians should believe for example the trinity, that Jesus is God, there are obviously some more:rolleyes:
 

Calmador

Senior Member
Jun 23, 2011
945
40
28
#54
well at least your making it plain how u see women - they need to be quiet - they should never teach men...and are under the authority of men.

You explained it to me several times - nicely i'll admit. But your missing the point of my thread - I knew yours and others attitude on this when I first wrote. The whole point of my thread was that I don't accept this. and what does that mean. It seems like your telling me that if I cant then Im not Christian. Repeating yourself doesn't change that I don't accept it - my question was about does that mean I cannot be Christian

If so then Well so be it - I wont live my life being silent, not educating others when I have a gift to be able to do it...and being under the authority of a man. I do not need the authorisation of a man to do what I think is right for myself or my family or my community. If that sends me to hell in yours or others eyes - well I don't accept that either.
Hey

You having a problem with wives submission... doesn't deny your status as a Christian. Someone's christian status isn't exactly based off that... What makes a person a Christian is that he/she accepts Jesus Christ as his/her lord and savior. I think it's easily possible that you could be Christian and just be struggling with Christian beliefs... especially if your new to the faith. Like I said before, I struggled with the age of the earth belief... scripture seems to point out that the earth is thousands of years. Popular belief is that the world is billions... You may be a Christian right now and just struggling.

Jesus Christ has given women in general a lot of respect they didn't have before. The privileged of seeing Christ resurrected was first given to a woman. And as someone mentioned earlier, the word of this woman believer was respected in a time when a woman's word meant nothing.

God bless, I recommend you talk to more people about it and prayer is good too. I think that's all I can say.
 
Last edited:

Jimbone

Senior Member
Aug 22, 2014
2,720
829
113
44
#55
well at least your making it plain how u see women - they need to be quiet - they should never teach men...and are under the authority of men.

You explained it to me several times - nicely i'll admit. But your missing the point of my thread - I knew yours and others attitude on this when I first wrote. The whole point of my thread was that I don't accept this. and what does that mean. It seems like your telling me that if I cant then Im not Christian. Repeating yourself doesn't change that I don't accept it - my question was about does that mean I cannot be Christian

If so then Well so be it - I wont live my life being silent, not educating others when I have a gift to be able to do it...and being under the authority of a man. I do not need the authorisation of a man to do what I think is right for myself or my family or my community. If that sends me to hell in yours or others eyes - well I don't accept that either.
Look I truly understand your problem, and as society today says men and women are 100% equal in every way right? Nope we are not, we just have to accept that, it's the way it is. I had the very same problem when it told me I am to submit my will to God. Really? I am a man in 2015 and you are telling me that I have to submit to "God", no way. It made no sense at all in my head. I mean I really liked the "idea" of this Jesus guy, but I have bills to pay and a family to support in the "real world". I think submission to anyone be it a husband or even God is hard for anyone, and I think this keep so many from truly finding true salvation, it did me. You just have a faulty view of what that means, it is the will of God and you are basically saying to Him "because I see this verse this way, and my culture tells me it's bad, you are wrong God and I just can't do it". Is that wise? Do you know what's better for you than the God that put the system in place? I am so telling you this submission is NOT talking about you walking 5 paces behind you owner (man), or you having to stay home pregnant and you better have dinner ready and the kids cleaned up when I get home. You have more of a problem with your interpretation of what it means than with what it really means. Then again you ARE a smart and independent woman and have every right to say this just isn't for me and do your own thing, but this IS the way God intended it and if you have that big a problem with it, it's not with the people in the society that wrote this, it's with God. Just know that you have no idea what makes a marriage, household, family, work best yet (besides the example your parents showed you). Some of this will be figured out as you grow and start to gain experience. I just plead with you to not let your understanding of a few verses turn you away from such a awesome God, He did it like He did for your own good.
 
Last edited:
Dec 1, 2014
1,430
27
0
#56
I would encourage you to read anything by Smith Wigglesworth and/or John G. Lake if you want your spirtual walk to mature and go beyond your own perception. They are 20th century ministers who take GOD's Word literally and use it to help others. You have deep seated within you a natural GOD given gift(s) that need to be utilized, as found in 1 Corinthians, chapter 12. Do not stay satisfied with the walk you are presently in. SEEK more, allow the Holy SPIRIT to be part of your worship and daily life..HE is your Comforter and will lead you to a much higher level of understanding. We need daily spiritual growth to overcome our daily frustrations in this modern world. Smith would feel ashamed of himself if he did not wake up stronger in his spiritual walk than he was the day before. I decided I needed to do the same and GOD has certainly opened my eyes to things that I never would have imagined...like laying my hands on my physical hurts and believing that HE wanted to make me whole, based on my faith...and walking away from an acute gout attack, completely healed. Guess what..I did not have to go online and vent my problems and ask for prayer..I simply TOOK JESUS CHRIST at HIS WORD. I also read the BIBLE a lot...it is a personal recipe for happiness!
 

Channa

Senior Member
Mar 1, 2014
381
2
18
#57
He Zoii :)
I'll pray for you
I have to say I always admire the way you look to things when you comment on threads here, really! It's mostly so wise ^^ As Levi said, let no one tell you if you're a christian or not. That's something between God and you.
I believe you can figure it out with God!
Hugs, Channa
 
Aug 18, 2015
61
1
6
30
#58
Lots of people take Jesus for their savior but refuse to accept Him as their Lord this is even the main problem for those who believe in God or are called Christian.If Jesus is your Lord you have faith in all what He says n can't struggle with it. you are a new born person you don't live anymore up to the world but you died as for worldly things and are alive as for heavenly ones so as to be a TRUE Christian You abide by God's wishes n all what he thinks for you is perfect n unchangeable you don't need Science to understand his wonderful thoughts,you know they are right from the start n still trust them.Faith doesn't move It's something intact.So whether you believe or not.That settles it!!!
 

zoii

Banned
Apr 8, 2015
895
18
0
#59
Lots of people take Jesus for their saviour but refuse to accept Him as their Lord this is even the main problem for those who believe in God or are called Christian.If Jesus is your Lord you have faith in all what He says n can't struggle with it. you are a new born person you don't live anymore up to the world but you died as for worldly things and are alive as for heavenly ones so as to be a TRUE Christian You abide by God's wishes n all what he thinks for you is perfect n unchangeable you don't need Science to understand his wonderful thoughts,you know they are right from the start n still trust them.Faith doesn't move It's something intact.So whether you believe or not.That settles it!!!
The problem with what you say is that for any one concept in the bible, there are a thousand different views. Having faith doesn't mean there's just one view. .. go to BDF and you'll see what I mean. You say ignore science but how can I when year by year evidence builds. Additionally the christian community various enormously in its outlook on these matters. I'm listening to all views and reading as much as i can to work
on these things. One thing i know i cant accept though is male headship n submission.
 
Apr 8, 2015
895
18
0
#60
I would encourage you to read anything by Smith Wigglesworth and/or John G. Lake if you want your spirtual walk to mature and go beyond your own perception. They are 20th century ministers who take GOD's Word literally and use it to help others. You have deep seated within you a natural GOD given gift(s) that need to be utilized, as found in 1 Corinthians, chapter 12. Do not stay satisfied with the walk you are presently in. SEEK more, allow the Holy SPIRIT to be part of your worship and daily life..HE is your Comforter and will lead you to a much higher level of understanding. We need daily spiritual growth to overcome our daily frustrations in this modern world. Smith would feel ashamed of himself if he did not wake up stronger in his spiritual walk than he was the day before. I decided I needed to do the same and GOD has certainly opened my eyes to things that I never would have imagined...like laying my hands on my physical hurts and believing that HE wanted to make me whole, based on my faith...and walking away from an acute gout attack, completely healed. Guess what..I did not have to go online and vent my problems and ask for prayer..I simply TOOK JESUS CHRIST at HIS WORD. I also read the BIBLE a lot...it is a personal recipe for happiness!
Ty yea I'm trying to do as u say PWRNJC - I'm not there yet tho - Plus Ive pretty much been told by two CC adults today to get off CC (thread in News - Depleted marine life thread) n that I'm not christian for having my doubts and raising questions. ...... or in this case for having non-conservative views on the environment. Ive also been told I have to do a personal testimony about my faith if I am going to comment in an adult thread by three people in that same thread. Maybe they are right - a teen who hasnt fully developed their christian view should get the heck of CC.
 
Last edited: