Music?

[EverlastingChange]

@ "xJoe"

How is using the likes of "For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness?" - 2 Corinthians 6:14 taking things out of context? You said this has nothing to do with music, but we ALL apply scripture to our lives that is written by or about people who are obviously not in the exact same situation as us, or speaking about the one thing (in this case music). For the obvious reason of, it was written thousands of years ago and the situations we find ourselves in now will in most cases be completely different to those of written 2000 years ago. So does this means it's wrong cause we are using common sense and logic to help understand how it fits into the actual situation were in? Of course not. We HAVE to do this. We have to use common sense and logic to adapt it into our far more technologically advanced and in some ways complex society, otherwise how could we relate to the people's life stories in the bible? This does not mean were adding bit's and taking away bit's. If it were well, every Christian is in a great deal of trouble.

I find the comparison highly relevant.. "For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness?" - 2 Corinthians 6:14.. Were partnerring the sound of death metal music (which roots are of evil) simply with words for God.

"Instead of fasting, praying, and seeking God for his Spirit to draw hearts that truly want to repent, they turn to Christian Metal, which will speak the language, promote the look and appeal of the culture, and then add the message of Christ to it? See, the Christian Metal "Rockers" believes that they can reach real Heavy Metal artists and fans by being Heavy Metal artists or fans themselves--just Holy ones. They believe they are an alternative to the real Heavy Metal, so that when you give your life to Christ, you can still be represented by a Christian version of Heavy Metal. They also believe that Heavy Metal can be Holy because God changed you or me from our sinful state into Holy people.

"When I was not in Christ, I was a thief and a crook. Now that I am saved, am I a Holy Crook?"

"I guess next the gothic culture is going to have a bootleg, Holy version of the real thing eventually (as crazy as it seems someone may already be doing this). Can't you just see the kids in your youth group wearing black, black nail polish, tattoos and piercings everywhere, and looking like walking dead people? Then the Holy Gothic recording artist/minister comes in and validates them. He will look like Marilyn Manson, sounds like Marilyn Manson and dresses like Marilyn Manson, but he will sing about Christ. Will this reach the Youth? Will these youth be transformed by the power of God and begin to look and act like NEW CREATURES? No, they will continue to live and look like the culture that had them spiritually bound in the first place. These methods always look good on the surface and can be justified by quoting, “ I become all things to all men…” Ok lets become a part of the pornographic culture to reach the pornographers. This is ridiculous. To reach the gothic culture or any other subculture you must ask the real question.. Why are they Gothic?"

Is ANYONE'S eyes being opened here?

 

[peachetty]

@ "xJoe"

How is using the likes of "For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness?" - 2 Corinthians 6:14 taking things out of context? You said this has nothing to do with music, but we ALL apply scripture to our lives that is written by or about people who are obviously not in the exact same situation as us, or speaking about the one thing (in this case music). For the obvious reason of, it was written thousands of years ago and the situations we find ourselves in now will in most cases be completely different to those of written 2000 years ago. So does this means it's wrong cause we are using common sense and logic to help understand how it fits into the actual situation were in? Of course not. We HAVE to do this. We have to use common sense and logic to adapt it into our far more technologically advanced and in some ways complex society, otherwise how could we relate to the people's life stories in the bible? This does not mean were adding bit's and taking away bit's. If it were well, every Christian is in a great deal of trouble.

I find the comparison highly relevant.. "For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness?" - 2 Corinthians 6:14.. Were partnerring the sound of death metal music (which roots are of evil) simply with words for God.

"Instead of fasting, praying, and seeking God for his Spirit to draw hearts that truly want to repent, they turn to Christian Metal, which will speak the language, promote the look and appeal of the culture, and then add the message of Christ to it? See, the Christian Metal "Rockers" believes that they can reach real Heavy Metal artists and fans by being Heavy Metal artists or fans themselves--just Holy ones. They believe they are an alternative to the real Heavy Metal, so that when you give your life to Christ, you can still be represented by a Christian version of Heavy Metal. They also believe that Heavy Metal can be Holy because God changed you or me from our sinful state into Holy people.

"When I was not in Christ, I was a thief and a crook. Now that I am saved, am I a Holy Crook?"



ik this wasn’t 2 me but i felt i had to say something. first off i do think you have sum valid points...but sum do not really apply to music... music moves the soul, it gets in your mind and drives you to do things... it gets you pumped to kill sum1...or gets you pumped to go tell your next door neighbor about what God has done for you.

It makes you want to shout, cry, jump, spin, praise God or praise the devil. it puts thoughts of God in your head or it puts thoughts of sex or violence in your head. ....

Now the main part of the music that makes you want to move around is the tempo... tempo's aren’t bad... plain music isn’t bad at all

The part of the music that puts thoughts in your head are the words.. you can have thoughts of sexual things violence demons killing anything if the words are suggesting that no matter what the music part is doing... do you not agree? ....

So if the words to the songs are awesome and are talking about God then y are they bad?

There’s a song that the choirs is "long live the king, Jesus”..Its as heavy metal as you can get but hey... thats a good song... it makes you want to praise God, and go tell ppl about him.

ppl in my generation music tastes have changed sum... rock is now an acceptable form of worship (not to say the old slow stuff isnt still around cuz it is and its very powerful and everyone ik still loves it... but they love it just as much as rock) ....

As long as the words to the music is holy, and makes you want to do and think pure thoughts then its fine. see my point?

 

[xJoe]

You fail to understand the point I am trying to make. there's no more use in trying to tell you.

 

[Hebrey]

Well, I have quite simillar opinion like Evicka, xJoe and EverlastinChange. I think the lyrics are more importaint thant the style of music. Of course, some of older Christians would say that all modern music is bad, but most of music styles and even instruments used to be once exercrated when they were new. You can use words celebrating God with rock music and opposit talk against Him with pleasing melody.

What is about Death Metal music, well, personally, I am more inclined to EverlastingChanges oppinion. This kind of music was established to celebrate Satan, and the way of it is created to lead people into some kind of mood, thinking or so. BUT on the other hand xJoe is true in one thing - Christmas is also pagan holiday. Even our way of Easter has a lots of pagan signs. So, if you are sure, the music you listen or play celebrates God, so I believe, he recieves your celebration

 

[xJoe]

its about the heart is the thing. but not only intentions but also how the music moves you.
Depending on why your listening to (what intentions) and how it effects you is the answer. If it moves you in the wrong direction then it's wrong but if it doesn't then you can't say anything. I can't agree with someones opinion when he tells people how to think instead of making them examine it for themselves. make sense?

 

[peachetty]

i think im invisible.... yup... thats what it is...

 

[xJoe]

there's no point in explaining again what i said over and over. I never supported or approved of metal. all I tried to say was a person should determine this for himself / herself based off of lyrics and what mood the music draws you toward. Telling people how they feel is a bad method.
Let the person understand how they feel and understand the effects then they'll see the light. other than that your just going to make someone mad.

 

[Hebrey]

xJoe - I am not trying to tell anyone how to think. I also do not like it That was only my oppinion, it does not ANY style of music is bad or wrong. Sometimes these kinds of discussion may sound as qarrels, but I dont think we want to quarrel with each other, right? It is just explanation, isnt it?

 

[xJoe]

i was not referring to you don't worry lol. I was talking about everlasting.

 

[EverlastingChange]

Look at it this way, as Christian's we are led by the Holy Spirit, and we should be allowing him to guide us in our daily lives. When something we do is wrong, we should be coming under conviction of the Holy Spirit, this is why we stop doing the things we used to do before we were Christian, right? You surely can't disagree with this "xJoe"? So if he brings one person under conviction for Christian Metal, why would he not bring another? God does not teach one person one message, than another person another. One person wouldn't come under conviction of the Holy spirit for say swearing, and not another. Doesn't it make more sense that the other person simply does not want to acknowledge it.

"xJoe" your ways puzzle me, cause you continue to say you can see absolutely no good that can come from Metal. Yet it might be okay for somebody else. Just think about it, how can angry/aggressive sounding music have a negative effect on (me or you).. but then have a positive on another. How can aggression benefit somebody? How can Anger benefit somebody? We know what the bible says about anger. Psalm 37:8 - Refrain from anger and turn from wrath; do not fret—it leads only to evil. So why should anger or aggression simply combined with music be any different?

@ "peachetty" you say only the lyrics matter, but how much good are the lyrics doing if we can't even make them out for they way singer is roaring them in such an angressive manner, it just becomes rather scary noise? You say the beat or tempo of a song has no effect on somebody. Take a look at your dance or trance music. Most of these songs don't even have words yet they make people want to go out and dance vigorously or take party drugs, the likes extacy, speed cocaine etc to make the feeling last longer. Or go out and just start fighting. I've been involved with this kind of thing first hand at concerts and nightclubs before I turned Christian. I myslf used to get caught up in it.

 

[xJoe]

So if he brings one person under conviction for Christian Metal, why would he not bring another? God does not teach one person one message, than another person another.

there is a thing call personal conviction. Some people think that it is wrong to go to a movie theater. Some say Tv is a sin to watch and the internet wastes time and that we should avoid it at all cost. Obviously they felt they shouldn't do those things correct? So am i suppose to base my life off of someone else's convictions?

Romans 14:14

14 I know and am convinced by the Lord Jesus that there is nothing unclean of itself; but to him who considers anything to be unclean, to him it is unclean.


this is my verse for personal conviction. Reading on the chapter it talks about how some people would not eat and other who found no fault in it. How the younger Christians would only eat vegetables.
To that person if he ate vegatables he would be violating his conscious, or so to say going against what he felt. They considered it unclean so to them it was. But did that mean everyone else had to think that way?

Romans 14:12-13
12 So then each of us shall give account of himself to God. 13 Therefore let us not judge one another anymore, but rather resolve this, not to put a stumbling block or a cause to fall in our brother

 

[xJoe]

Look at it this way, as Christian's we are led by the Holy Spirit, and we should be allowing him to guide us in our daily lives. When something we do is wrong, we should be coming under conviction of the Holy Spirit, this is why we stop doing the things we used to do before we were Christian, right? You surely can't disagree with this "xJoe"? So if he brings one person under conviction for Christian Metal, why would he not bring another? God does not teach one person one message, than another person another. One person wouldn't come under conviction of the Holy spirit for say swearing, and not another. Doesn't it make more sense that the other person simply does not want to acknowledge it.

"xJoe" your ways puzzle me, cause you continue to say you can see absolutely no good that can come from Metal. Yet it might be okay for somebody else. Just think about it, how can angry/aggressive sounding music have a negative effect on (me or you).. but then have a positive on another. How can aggression benefit somebody? How can Anger benefit somebody? We know what the bible says about anger. Psalm 37:8 - Refrain from anger and turn from wrath; do not fret—it leads only to evil. So why should anger or aggression simply combined with music be any different?

@ "peachetty" you say only the lyrics matter, but how much good are the lyrics doing if we can't even make them out for they way singer is roaring them in such an angressive manner, it just becomes rather scary noise? You say the beat or tempo of a song has no effect on somebody. Take a look at your dance or trance music. Most of these songs don't even have words yet they make people want to go out and dance vigorously or take party drugs, the likes extacy, speed cocaine etc to make the feeling last longer. Or go out and just start fighting. I've been involved with this kind of thing first hand at concerts and nightclubs before I turned Christian. I myslf used to get caught up in it.

So if he brings one person under conviction for Christian Metal, why would he not bring another? God does not teach one person one message, than another person another.

there is a thing call personal conviction. Some people think that it is wrong to go to a movie theater. Some say Tv is a sin to watch and the internet wastes time and that we should avoid it at all cost. Obviously they felt they shouldn't do those things correct? So am i suppose to base my life off of someone else's convictions?

Romans 14:14

14 I know and am convinced by the Lord Jesus that there is nothing unclean of itself; but to him who considers anything to be unclean, to him it is unclean.


this is my verse for personal conviction. Reading on the chapter it talks about how some people would not eat and other who found no fault in it. How the younger Christians would only eat vegetables.
To that person if he ate vegatables he would be violating his conscious, or so to say going against what he felt. They considered it unclean so to them it was. But did that mean everyone else had to think that way?

Romans 14:12-13
12 So then each of us shall give account of himself to God. 13 Therefore let us not judge one another anymore, but rather resolve this, not to put a stumbling block or a cause to fall in our brother’s way.

To me I will stay away from Christian death metal and I find fault in it. But does that mean it's wrong just because I "feel" it is? It is not my place or anyones to judge the kind of music people listen to. I can tell them I think it's wrong and also that it could be contributing if they ask me, but can I tell them that this is wrong don't listen to it? That takes away from God completely.
Instead of having people grow in Christ and find these things out for them self people give them there feelings. They tell them how to feel and whats right and whats wrong WITHOUT letting God do any convicting! We are not the Holy Spirit. And my job is not to Brain wash people into my convictions.
To me I can find a lot of reason to myself why something might be wrong but until God works or moves in someone that person will never understand.
Giving someone a way to live there life without God working in them to move towards that life is the hugest brain washing tool out there. I give my opinion and let God do what he needs to do. If the person realizes somethings wrong by themself THEN they will understand. If we tell them what they feel and how it effects them without letting them look for there self they will blow it off.
If someone listens to bad music i would want to sit down with them, listen to the music, and ask them about it. Ask them how it makes them feel and how it works in there life. AT FIRST God does not convict us. I lived in Sin for 2-3 years before God revealed it all to me. I slowly let go piece by piece. And no one intervened and tried to make me give it all up. God did all the work and then here I am now. God knows what he is doing and people don't deceive God or there self.
If the music is negative they know. We don't have to tell them and force them into submission. Maybe God has yet to reveal that to them and is working in another department of there life? If that is the case then by us telling them there wrong WE ARE IN THE WAY of God's healing. IF A PERSON FEELS NO CONVICTION the worse thing you can do is get them not to listen to it because you said so. Because they get the outward effects but none of the inward.
Make sense?
God heals us and brings us closer to him in his time and way. And when a person feels no conviction its not our job to slam it down on them. It only brings them further from God.
It is our job to work with them as God works with them. Bring up things as God brings them up. I have never met any person who desired to change something they not yet understood was wrong. By changing and not understanding you do the most damage to a person.

 

[blackout]

well i for one LOVE death metal or any kinda of metal, screamo or even plain old metal! lol it puts me in an exsighted state, it makes me what to get up and do somthing! death metal is only bad if the words are bad, as it is with every other typ of music..theres no particular kind that is bad or good.... it all has to do with whos singing it and whats being sung...

Bad music= music that talks about drugs, sex, vilence, somthing contrary to the word of God, and cussing. oh yes, and if its like parswadeing you to like go kill yourself or kill someone else or just do somthing bad, or think bad thoughts.... TURN IT OFF! XD

thats all ima say

I totally agree, peachetty!
i love chistian death metal!

 

[blackout]

@goth4god. i think for today is awesome i got their new cd not to long ago!

 

[EverlastingChange]

@ "xJoe"

I agree with a lot of what you say, you share my opinion on a lot of things, but in some ways I think you have over-reacted to what I've been saying on here. Yes I have been expressing my opinion boldly on what I believe. Perhaps I have been too bold and I apologize for that if I have offended anyone. I just get enthusiastic when trying to get my point across. I never once said to anybody that what there doing is completely wrong and there not Christian for doing it. Yes I agree it is the Holy Spirit's job alone to convict, but I also believe the Holy Spirit can speak through who he chooses and can use what people openly speak of to contribute towards that conviction. I just try to present openly what I believe backed with as much detail as I can to make people examine themselves and their lives.

None the less Joe, I have enjoyed hearing your opinion and talking this over with you, I hope to see you around in another thread at some point . Take care.

 

[Brandon]

I agree with both "xJoe" and "Evicka" on the basis of the lyrical content is the most important factor. But I think that the sound or beat of the song too can be just as important and is often overlooked. You see this is where Christian "death metal" loses me. To begin with it's name. Do we forget that the word "Christian" is simply Christ with "ian" added on ? Essentially you glorify a music that titled "Christ(ian) death - metal". What's my problem with this? I don't see the word RESURRECTION after the word death. You glorify a sound of music that is actually named after "Death", yet you throw it together with the word Christian, and suddenly it becomes a grey area? Cause it's good partnered with bad so it makes it sort of okay right? 2 Corinthians 6:14 ".. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness?"

Yes Okay the lyrics, may appear to be praising God. But let's be honest, most of us wouldn't know what on earth their saying unless we googled the lyrics. They could be singing about anything. In fact I could go as far to say that if I was to be flicking through the music channels, and went past Kerrang and this song was playing "http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90VWlF9lT38 - For Today - King" I honestly would not be able to tell the difference between so called "Christian Death Metal" and ordinary "Death Metal". The bible says.. "Therefore if any man is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things are passed away; behold, new things have come." 2 Corinthians 5:17.

Why then do soo many people who call themselves Christian CLING to a sound of music, that captivated them in the first place. Right I'm not being nasty here, but the majority of teens who physically harm themselves, have suicidal thoughts, depression etc listen to this kind of music and are imprisoned by it. Yet when they turn Christian and become NEW CREATURES IN CHRIST all they do is substitute the "Death Metal" for "Christian Death Metal", and everything's great cause the lyrics are no longer violent, or depressing. But the sound of the music STILL IS, the lyrics that appear to be glorifying God are drowned out in the unnecessary aggressive form of sharing lyrics. And I can see no good that comes from it! It stirs my soul.

"goth4god" please don't think I'm set out against you or in anyway trying to be spiteful and nasty towards you. I just want you to think about it. Remember.. Faithful are the wounds of a friend, But deceitful are the kisses of an enemy - Proverbs 27:6. Goth is the celebration of death and destruction. Why they were black, represents death. Yet your username is "goth4god" ? basically "death&destruction4god" Your supposed to be saved! Your supposed to be a new creature! Why then do you still cling to the old? You have not gave ALL of yourself to the Lord.

This has NOT always been an issue. It's only the last 30 years or so we have had Christian metal. Christian metal is not holy lyrics with the same old death metal sound. It's a person addicted to the death metal sound trying to merge it together with this great new thing they've discovered called God . What does righteousness have in common with the wicked?! What you are addicted to is the sound of the death metal music that is fooling many by throwing the name christian in front of it and continues to feed the negativity inside you that held you prisoner in the first place. Am I speaking any sense to anyone?

I came across a girl the other day on CC (I won't name her) she posted on a thread that I was helping a girl with who was having trouble sleeping, she says she felt like someone was watching her, could not even get to sleep with her bedroom lights on, the only way she got to sleep was when the sun began to rise. My heart went out to her cause I've been there, and I've overcome it through Jesus Christ. But anyway this girl who commented on this thread saying.. "Yeah I'm the same sometimes, can never really figure out why though.." I click on her username to see her profile and her picture is her dressed in black giving the devils horns signal with her hand (index finger and pinky only facing upwards). Unsurprisingly she is another who is a Christian who glorifies "Christian Death Metal"

See what I mean?! This is Satan working his way in! He'll use ANYTHING he can to slow us down. We must understand here on earth he only has 2 goals. 1. To stop us ever becoming Christian, and if he can't do that the second is to stop us being an EFFECTIVE Christian, and if so many of us are still addicted to something from our old lives when we claim to be something new from Christ, right there you have your stumbling block for so many. "Christian Death Metal" - essentially the enemy pulling the wool over peoples eyes.. and we fall for it, we fall for it.

I do not say these things to be cruel, only to try and share some truth with you! I just pray that you or others like you take into consideration what I'm saying. And that Jesus Christ will TRULY set you free, for Jesus said - "The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, Because he anointed me to preach good tidings to the poor: He hath sent me to proclaim release to the captives, And recovering of sight to the blind, To set at liberty them that are bruised.." - Luke 4:18

First of all, the title 'Death Metal' originated from the first band to form the genre called themselves 'Death' because the vocalist, Chuck Schuldiner, was interested in the concept of life and death and not because he provoked it through violent means and his lyrical concepts usually revolved around philosophical topics.

Also there is no such genre as 'Christian Death Metal'. There is death metal with Christian themes. You don't call a Death Metal band with lyrics about politics 'Political Death Metal.' No, you just don't.

Also, there hardly is any death metal with Christian themes. There is a genre called Metalcore that deals with those themes, so if you wanted to improperly title it anyways, you'd have to title it Christian Metalcore.

Also, by your statements, you seem to support an extreme form of conformism within the Christian community. And I don't mean conformism to the image of Christ. Should we all conform to one style of music? God gives talents to utilize them and reach out to others. There is nothing wrong with heavy metal played with Christian themes. In fact, how will there ever be change in those realms of the world if Christians don't intervene? These metal bands that have Christian themes probably preach where you are too scared to spread the Word... That is something admirable about them.

Just because the music appears 'aggressive' to you doesn't mean that it aggressive. It's just energetic and powerful. God did not say we have to listen to slow, soft and uninspired music to worship him.

And from my viewpoint as I used to attend concerts and be very attentive to the metal community, I know that it's comments like this that you made that make atheists who listen to metal hate Christians and pushes them away from God and not leads them toward Him.

Now if you enjoy listening to those mainstream Christian bands that play in 4/4 rhythm and no musical talent, then that is fine. Go ahead, but don't go saying all of this non-sense about another form of music that people worship God through. It only pushes people away from God and hinders their impression.

 

[Cleopas]

death metal, or any kind of metal does not put me in a bad mood.
it pumps me up!
and it is also how I worship.

I'm with you on that one. If music is slow and soft, I want to sleep. Christian Metal is inspiring!

 

[blackout]

I love christian metal! it gives me like a spiritual high for God!

 

[xJoe]

@ "xJoe"

I agree with a lot of what you say, you share my opinion on a lot of things, but in some ways I think you have over-reacted to what I've been saying on here. Yes I have been expressing my opinion boldly on what I believe. Perhaps I have been too bold and I apologize for that if I have offended anyone. I just get enthusiastic when trying to get my point across. I never once said to anybody that what there doing is completely wrong and there not Christian for doing it. Yes I agree it is the Holy Spirit's job alone to convict, but I also believe the Holy Spirit can speak through who he chooses and can use what people openly speak of to contribute towards that conviction. I just try to present openly what I believe backed with as much detail as I can to make people examine themselves and their lives.

None the less Joe, I have enjoyed hearing your opinion and talking this over with you, I hope to see you around in another thread at some point . Take care.

mhm i knew you would of had my same opinion with a lot it's just I didn't know exactly how to explain it. But i'm glad we can come to equal terms

 

[Joshua175]

The Ideal World would be a world where Everyone Only cared about Jesus and Nothing else. If I were to be so dedicated to Jesus that he was the fullness of my entertainment; If I devoted my whole life to being in the bible, wouldn't that be something God would want from me? After all, the first Commandment "The Lord our God is one Lord: And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment."

"We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord."

I say the more ''entertainment'' we can stop the better. The more we are devoted to God the better. After all what does entertainment do for anyone but yourself? Is entertainment for God or so that you can have fun? Does it help anyone who is in need? So, if something does no good, then how could that be good for you?

"Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.
For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?"