Teen struggling with homosexuality.

[newb]

Dear spencer Tracy,

Wel for starters there is a study conducted in the uk (the articles will all be from about February 13-15) that states there is a genetic link between homosexuality and genes. You can look it up there are several websites that with some pretty lengthy articles about the study. And I don't act on my natural feelings because 1) sex before marriage is a sin 2) Im single so I obviously can't do anything. Oh and about my prayer life. I pray those things every day, I have prayed for them for a very long period of time.

 

[ThomistColin]

Dear spencer Tracy,

Wel for starters there is a study conducted in the uk (the articles will all be from about February 13-15) that states there is a genetic link between homosexuality and genes. You can look it up there are several websites that with some pretty lengthy articles about the study. And I don't act on my natural feelings because 1) sex before marriage is a sin 2) Im single so I obviously can't do anything. Oh and about my prayer life. I pray those things every day, I have prayed for them for a very long period of time.

Is it possible that one day, God may heal us of this fallen nature? Yes. Is it probable? That is up to God. For now, we must trust in Him, obey His statutes, and remain chaste. For we, meaning all of mankind, are meant truly for only ONE HUSBAND...Jesus Christ our Lord and King.

 

[SpencerTracy]

Dear spencer Tracy,

Wel for starters there is a study conducted in the uk (the articles will all be from about February 13-15) that states there is a genetic link between homosexuality and genes. You can look it up there are several websites that with some pretty lengthy articles about the study. And I don't act on my natural feelings because 1) sex before marriage is a sin 2) Im single so I obviously can't do anything. Oh and about my prayer life. I pray those things every day, I have prayed for them for a very long period of time.

Hi again newb. I'm glad you pray. Please continue to ask God for his truth to rule your life. This matter is way too important, so don't dismiss what any one of us says just because we speak in opposition to what you believe. If what we're arguing about here is regarding something that can very truly keep you out of heaven, it would be incredibly prudent of you to stay open to the possibility that you may be wrong. I mean, the whole point of being a Christian is to enter heaven, right? Okay, well if you can't enter because you choose to believe in the wrong thing, what's the point of being a Christian? Just something to think about.

As for the studies you mention, that is not proof. People studying a specific topic is not proof. Evidence isn't proof. Theories aren't always absolute proof of objective reality. Think about it. There are tons of studies about the Loch Ness monster (well, there were anyway) and Big Foot and...well, you get the message. You can choose to study anything you want and you may even come up with good and convincing evidence to suggest that what you are studying is true (just like Big Foots big foot prints and pictures of the Loch Ness monster) and you may convince many that this evidence is true, but again, all of this is not proof and it all may very well be an illusion we mistake for being reality.

Trust me, if science had proof (if it had actually found a "gay gene"), the entire world would have heard about it and every single advocate of the homosexual lifestyle would scream that information from the roof tops and they would not for a single moment stop using that article or study to prove their arguments, but it doesn't exist. Anywhere. With any group. Science has never affirmed that "people are born gay." Ever. Which is why I'm telling you that you should take a step back and really think about how what you're saying and what you're believing (both in terms of science AND Scripture) holds absolutely zero basis in fact. But even if there was what scientists called "proof", we, as Christians, wouldn't accept it to be true, because we'd know they are in error. Why? Because God doesn't create us something He finds detestable, but we understand that detestable things (homosexual urges, sexually immoral urges, etc) arise within us.

That being said, we all need to direct our faith to its rightful source: God. Now since God spoke through His Apostles, we can rest assured that if we accept them and everything they say, we accept God as well. (John 13:20) St. Paul didn't study what he preached; he didn't speak using his own wisdom, but Scripture tells us (and even St. Peter confirms) that he (St. Paul) spoke with "the wisdom that God gave him." (2 Peter 3:15-16) So in reality, St. Paul didn't preach against homosexuality, God did. So who better to depend on? Who is more reliable, newb? This group of people you mention? Or those who literally spoke with God and knew God's truth in FULL?

My friend, there isn't much I can prove to you, but Scripture is so irrefutably obvious with its commands against homosexuality, that to have to debate this topic with you or anyone points to either a strong personal bias, some kind of agenda, or a terrifying level of delusion. Either way, please don't make up your mind just yet. You haven't reached the height of spiritual wisdom and since you admit that you keep praying on this matter, this proves to me that you're unsure. Don't let the fact that you're not getting an answer right away make you think that there isn't an answer or that you already have the answer. Prayer is not over when you don't receive an answer - it's a lifelong process - so keep praying and asking God to rid you of your own desire and for Him to place the same truth that was within the Apostles within you as well. I pray that one day you will not only be free from the ignorance of the truth of the Bible, but also from enslavement to homosexual urges as well. May my brothers and sisters on this board pray this prayer for you, in the name of Jesus Christ. Amen.

 

[newb]

I have a question to you. Do you eat shellfish? You misunderstood my comment about my prayer life. I meant to that I pray everyday for a heart after his and that I would follow his will. Not once did I say I pray about this specifically. Don't get me wrong I have but that's not what I meant. And you don't have a bias or agenda with your argument? I HIGHLY doubt that you're opinion is 100% biblical and has ABSOLUTELY NO INFLUENCE from anything else. And honestly now you're repeating yourself. oh and about the science. If you read the article or any other article about sexuality and how it connects to genetics them you would know that science has linked sexuality to DNA and the only prt of that that remains unproven is WHICH specific gene is related to homosexuality. But as you pointed out you don't care about science, so stop using it in your argument.

 

[SpencerTracy]

I have a question to you. Do you eat shellfish?

Newb, these arguments you plan to make (which have been utterly decimated by some of the leading Christian apologists) have been used by homosexuals across the globe because they, like you, also lack proper understanding of Scripture.

From the christiansagainstnalt.com site (linked from another site) which I asked you to read earlier:

​

The “big picture” behind the argument about condemning homosexuality as an archaic, Old Testament rule can be understood by the fact that there are different kinds of laws in the Old Testament. Civil and ceremonial laws, such as those concerning religious sacrifices and penalties for unacceptable societal behaviors, were time-bound and limited to the people of Israel. They are no longer in force for a variety of reasons: first, all the OT sacrifices and ceremonies were given as a foreshadowing of the Messiah’s ministry and of His death, burial and resurrection. They are no longer necessary because they were the preparation for the Reality that has come. Second, the civil laws pertained to a nation of people who no longer exist. (The current nation of Israel is a political one, not the same as the group of OT people God called to follow Him alone as their Ruler.)

​

Moral laws, such the Ten Commandments and all the laws constraining sexual immorality, are not time-bound because they are rooted in the character of God. Time and culture changes do not affect the importance of not worshiping any false Gods because God is the only true God; of not murdering because every person is made in the image of God; of being honest because God is truth; of not stealing because God wants us to trust HIM to meet our needs instead of taking what we want; of being faithful to one’s spouse because God is faithful. And none of the Old Testament laws concerning sexual morality changed in the New Testament because they, too, are based on the character of God as pure and holy. It is always sinful to have sex with someone you’re not married to, regardless of gender.


The scriptural prohibition against homosexuality is further underscored by what Paul reveals as the purpose of sex in marriage in Ephesians 5: sexual intercourse between husband and wife is an earthly picture of the spiritual union of two very different, very other beings—Christ and His bride, the Church. Sexual coupling of two same-gendered people can never reflect the deep spiritual significance of sex. Instead, it is really about pursuing pleasure, and pleasure is not the primary purpose of sex (despite our culture’s views). But that’s another topic.

This distinction between civil/ceremonial laws and moral laws is seen in just about any family with healthy boundaries. When our sons were small, we had rules about “no TV before homework is done” and “don’t leave your bicycle in the driveway.” Those rules were time-bound, not timeless, because they were appropriate only for their growing-up years. We don’t have those rules anymore because they are both adults, out of the house and in their own homes now. But we still have character-based expectations that they be responsible, honest, respectful, and kind. Those “rules” won’t change because they are a different kind from the training rules they grew up with.


​

So you see that Christ fulfilled many of the Old Testament laws. It's why believers don't offer sacrifices anymore today, because the ultimate sacrifice was paid on the cross. There are certain laws that do still apply to everyone today (as mentioned above), but many of them do not. Not for Christians. The reason Jews still follow all of the OT laws is because they haven't accepted that Jesus Christ truly is their Messiah.

I HIGHLY doubt that you're opinion is 100% biblical

What would make you think it's not? Was it the verses I quoted about St. Peter vouching for St. Paul when he very explicitly and very obviously condemned homosexuality? Was it me telling you what nearly 95+% of the Christian, Jewish and Muslim population would tell you and have been telling us for thousands of years? That homosexuality has been (since the creation of time itself) and always will be a sin? Please tell me.

oh and about the science. If you read the article or any other article about sexuality and how it connects to genetics them you would know that science has linked sexuality to DNA and the only prt of that that remains unproven is WHICH specific gene is related to homosexuality.

Newb, my point still remains that people are not born gay. All science has done is make claims that certain people may have a predisposition towards homosexuality (which may or may not be true), but that doesn't mean that you (the soul - the human being) are gay. It just means that science claims that certain people have a tendency towards homosexual acts. 1) We don't know for sure if this happens or when this happens, but 2) even if it were true, all it means, again, is that some people (for whatever reason) have an inclination toward homosexual acts and this points not to our true selves, but to our fallen state. Since children we have an instinctive propensity towards evil (selfishness and anger and greed, etc), so does that mean that God created us selfish and angry and greedy? Far be it from Him. He is perfect and we also were perfect when He created us. We are not born sinners, newb, we become sinners. God (in a secret place at an unknown time) created us upright, but we sought out many schemes and fell from that perfection. The Eastern Orthodox view is that at one point in time we (the true self) were translucent and pure and the self will once again return to that same state.

Let me try to clarify what I'm saying by asking you a few questions. When is a person born? Can science tell us that? Have they already told us that? I mean let's take it back - even further back than when a child exits his mothers womb. Let's go back 3 months before that - when the child is 6 months old - is that when life begins? Or is it 3 months earlier? Does anyone besides God Himself (and those who He's chosen to reveal it to) know the answer to that question? You keep implying "yes", and I keep telling you "no", but what I want you to answer is this: If science has truly figured out when life begins (which is literally the only way they can say that "people are born gay"), then please tell me why there are such heated debates about abortion? These debates happen because pro-life vs pro-choice advocates can't figure out when life begins - science can't and hasn't figured out when life begins - and neither you nor I can surely figure out when life begins and yet still you say, "I am born this way." How have you possibly made sense of that in your own mind, newb?

All that being said, and for the sake of argument, let's say you actually were born gay. What then? That would mean that God knew your sexual orientation (I mean He made you that way, right?) and yet still He commanded His apostles to preach against what He made you to be. So at the end of the day, even if you were born that way (which you weren't), it's irrelevant, because the Bible is clear that practicing homosexuals will not enter into the kingdom. So, fine! You're gay. Do you plan on practicing homosexuality?

But as you pointed out you don't care about science, so stop using it in your argument.

No, that was not my point. I'm with Martin Luther King when it comes to science. He says, "No person of sound intelligence could minimize science. It's not science in itself that I'm condemning, but it is the tendency of projecting it to the status of God that I am condemning." In other words, we can most certainly understand and appreciate the leaps and bounds that science has made throughout the years, but to treat it as though it is an infallible entity, is not a wise move on our part. To accept what it says over what doctrine tells us is true, is worse yet and is obviously not something any professing Christian should do. If science were to find "proof" showcasing to the world how "God doesn't exist - it was only 'fill in the blank' before the big bang", I wouldn't accept it. That was my point, which is surely not the same thing as saying, "I don't care about science."

Now I have no choice but to repeat this yet again: Science has never made claims that people are born gay, so there is no need to reject what they say, because they've never said it. And there is no real reason to reject science as a whole, but if you've chosen to treat it as your god and willfully decided to reject what Scripture, the Church, the Saints, and the Apostles have said, then that's your choice but you have to understand that your act is considered flat out idolatry.

 

[ThomistColin]

I find it odd that it is difficult to believe man can be born gay, even though we now know people can be born schizophrenic, born sociopaths, born with diseases, born with mental illnesses, born deaf, born blind, born deformed of flesh, and born mentally handicapped.

If we are born with a sinful nature, and we are, don't you realize that this is by far one of the signs of that sinful nature having so corrupted mankind since the Fall.

There are two reasons why some Christians don't want to accept that some of us are born gay. Because it would mean their treatment of us who are SSA has been abominable AND because they believe the inherent lie of, "Well if you are born that way, then it can't be evil."

 

[SpencerTracy]

I find it odd that it is difficult to believe man can be born gay, even though we now know people can be born schizophrenic, born sociopaths, born with diseases, born with mental illnesses, born deaf, born blind, born deformed of flesh, and born mentally handicapped.

Born WITH diseases, not born as an actual disease ourselves. Homosexuality is a disease - you are not a disease. You experience this disease in the form of gay urges, but you are NOT gay. This is precisely what I'm trying to get across to newb. Even the born "with" diseases I would eventually like to see hard proof of, but since it doesn't take away from what we've all known and understood as our "fallen nature", as vague a term "born" is, I can accept it without proof for now.

And though what I've said may seem like I'm splitting hairs, the differentiation truly is a matter of (eternal) life or (spiritual) death. Why? Because if you believe that you are gay (and that God made you that way), then some people won't find a reason to change, like newb. But if you realize that you are not gay, but that gay urges (for whatever reason) spring up from within you, then as a believer, you will desire to resist those temptations.

For example, if someone believes that they are born a sociopath, and that God created them that way, why then should they change something our infinitely wise God created? The proper thing to do would be to accept acting and living like a maniac, right? "It's who I am - I AM a sociopath." To continue in your sociopathic ways is the right, just, Scriptural thing to do? Even if people are born with a sociopathic tendency (which I don't believe to be the case), you know in your heart that it would be downright insane of anyone to accept such a thing, yet many, many people (not you, it seems, but newb, for instance) accept it with regard to homosexuality, which is truly marveling to me.

That being said, I'll ask you the same question I asked newb, which I'm hopeful you'll answer: when exactly are people born? When does life begin? Can you please answer this question for me? You are life, remember? Nephesh/soul/breath of life - that's you! That doesn't happen when a child exits his mothers womb, so since you also seem to be very certain that "people are born gay", even though science itself has not boldly proclaimed such a thing, then please explain to me what exactly "born" means and when life truly begins.

We oftentimes carelessly label ourselves saying "I am 'this'" and "I am 'that'", but the Saints who were enlightened by the inner light of Christ, knew exactly who they were and trust me when I tell you, the image they portrayed with words (of that "I" that is within all of us) was an ineffable one without the stain of sin attached to it. But only "the pure of heart" will see that everything beyond that "I" is merely a label and not "I" itself.

If we are born with a sinful nature, and we are, don't you realize that this is by far one of the signs of that sinful nature having so corrupted mankind since the Fall.

I'm glad that you realize that homosexuality is a part of a fallen state and that it's not who God intended you to be. You differ in that respect from newb, which is good, because he's fully accepted the lie that that's who he is and it's how God made him.

However, one problem remains: you need to understand that there is a difference between being born with an instinctive desire to DO evil and being born EVIL. Our natural self is not evil, my friend, but evil arises in the presence of our natural state. To say otherwise would imply that God is evil. If we are created in His image, our true selves are like God - perfect - not an abomination, but the opposite is precisely what you and other like-minded individuals would have us believe. That God is an abomination and that we, also, are abominations and detestable beings as well, which couldn't possibly be further from the truth.

This tendency we have towards evil is what we consider the "fallen nature." "Nature" does not mean our natural state - our natural selves - it means the current state which surrounds our true state. Everything around us (evil desires, greed, unrighteous anger, etc), if you will, but not us. Newb has confused a possible predisposition towards homosexuality for a predetermination by God and his job, like the rest of us, to resist evil temptations, has been shunned by newb since he thinks that that's who he is. As a result, he will not resist this disease and thus will deprive himself entrance into the kingdom. But like you admitted: it is part of a FALLEN state - which fully contradicts that God MADE him (or you or anyone) that way or that it's God's intention that "since this is who I am", this is who you will always be and that there's nothing to be delivered from.

There are two reasons why some Christians don't want to accept that some of us are born gay. Because it would mean their treatment of us who are SSA has been abominable AND because they believe the inherent lie of, "Well if you are born that way, then it can't be evil."

For starters, there's more than two reasons. That aside, I don't quite understand the part about treatment. Care to explain? By "treatment", do you mean something (prayer, etc) to help you overcome (or "treat") homosexuality? If so, I can't imagine any believer in their right state of mind thinking such a thing is abominable, but if you don't mind, please do explain.

Also, I'm glad to hear that even though you believe you're born gay, that you still think homosexuality is evil. Which really makes me think. Considering you know it's evil, I really don't know how important it is to argue about whether or not you're born gay. To be honest, I don't think we need to argue about that. I mean, yes, it would be great for you to know that you're not born that way, but the most important thing here is that I believe (according to what you've said, anyway) that we are in agreement that homosexuality is, in fact, evil. Which means that even though you have the urge to engage in homosexual behavior, I take it that you don't and never will engage in such sinful behavior?

 

[ThomistColin]

For starters, there's more than two reasons. That aside, I don't quite understand the part about treatment. Care to explain? By "treatment", do you mean something (prayer, etc) to help you overcome (or "treat") homosexuality? If so, I can't imagine any believer in their right state of mind thinking such a thing is abominable, but if you don't mind, please do explain.

Also, I'm glad to hear that even though you believe you're born gay, that you still think homosexuality is evil. Which really makes me think. Considering you know it's evil, I really don't know how important it is to argue about whether or not you're born gay. To be honest, I don't think we need to argue about that. I mean, yes, it would be great for you to know that you're not born that way, but the most important thing here is that I believe (according to what you've said, anyway) that we are in agreement that homosexuality is, in fact, evil. Which means that even though you have the urge to engage in homosexual behavior, I take it that you don't and never will engage in such sinful behavior?

By treatment I mean the amount of teens and young adults who are shunned by their families, and those families that have placed their children into reconstructive therapy which often includes forms of torture or forms of therapy that are no more than "scientific" fornication.

I lived the life for a long time. Tried to preach just what newb is trying to preach, but Leviticus just wouldn't go away. You see, I could explain away every other mention of homosexuality or implication of it (such as the sin of Sodom was not homosexuality, which by the way it wasn't because there was no SINGLE sin of Sodom), but the bluntness of God's revealed truth of human sexuality in Leviticus, plus God's revelation of perfect sexuality in the Song of Songs could not be ignored. However, it took God calling me a whore while reading Scripture one night that jolted me out of this fog I had created and made me realize that in truth I was meant for a Husband, but that could only happen if I were like a true bride, celibate and chaste. (Obviously that husband is Christ Himself.)

 

[SpencerTracy]

By treatment I mean the amount of teens and young adults who are shunned by their families, and those families that have placed their children into reconstructive therapy which often includes forms of torture or forms of therapy that are no more than "scientific" fornication.

I see. Thanks for explaining. Yes, it's tragic much of what many people have to go through in this life. And not to take away from what homosexuals go through or to lessen it in the least, it's not just "them" that are being shunned and hated and tortured and beaten and killed, even the Apostles experienced the same fate. Acts 14:22 tells us that we must go through many hardships to enter into the kingdom. 2 Corinthians 4:17 also tells us that these momentary troubles are achieving for us an eternal glory that far outweighs them all. So if God allows evil to take place in our lives, 1) we should never complain because 2) it 100% has to fall in line with His perfect will for our lives.

One of the great Saints of the Church once said that God doesn't allow the demons to do as they wish with God's creation - and I implore anyone to ask themselves how it could be any other way? Scripture, over and over again, shows us that satan ASKS God for things, he doesn't just do as he pleases. He asked to strike Job and then he asked Jesus to sift St. Peter like wheat and even in John 19:9-11 we see Jesus confirm this fact in his own way. When Pontius Pilate said to Jesus, “Don’t you realize I have power either to free you or to crucify you?” How did Jesus respond? He responded by saying to Pontius, “You would have no power over me if it were not given to you from above.” So the power was given to Pontius, and it was given to the Pharisees and it was given to the soldiers that tortured Jesus and power is also given to everyone who acts out evil in this day and age, which includes those who marginalize homosexuals. All this to say, that if satan (or his helpers) get the divine nod from on high ALLOWING them to harm us in any way, let us do as Job did and praise God in times of affliction and use those who are lost (by praying for them) to help us find the Way.

I lived the life for a long time. Tried to preach just what newb is trying to preach, but Leviticus just wouldn't go away. You see, I could explain away every other mention of homosexuality or implication of it (such as the sin of Sodom was not homosexuality, which by the way it wasn't because there was no SINGLE sin of Sodom), but the bluntness of God's revealed truth of human sexuality in Leviticus, plus God's revelation of perfect sexuality in the Song of Songs could not be ignored. However, it took God calling me a whore while reading Scripture one night that jolted me out of this fog I had created and made me realize that in truth I was meant for a Husband, but that could only happen if I were like a true bride, celibate and chaste. (Obviously that husband is Christ Himself.)

May the Lord bless you, brother. I'm extremely glad to hear you say that. I'm hopeful the veil that covers the hearts of other believers may be lifted as has been the case in your life.

I can't imagine what you're going through, but I pray that your repentance of homosexuality serves as your spiritual walk back home towards your Father. May the Lord deem you worthy of the kingdom, so that you may be freed from all worldly attachment and enslavement. In the name of Jesus Christ I pray. Amen.

 

[newb]

Let me try to clarify what I'm saying by asking you a few questions. When is a person born? Can science tell us that? Have they already told us that? I mean let's take it back - even further back than when a child exits his mothers womb. Let's go back 3 months before that - when the child is 6 months old - is that when life begins? Or is it 3 months earlier? Does anyone besides God Himself (and those who He's chosen to reveal it to) know the answer to that question? You keep implying "yes", and I keep telling you "no", but what I want you to answer is this: If science has truly figured out when life begins (which is literally the only way they can say that "people are born gay"), then please tell me why there are such heated debates about abortion? These debates happen because pro-life vs pro-choice advocates can't figure out when life begins - science can't and hasn't figured out when life begins - and neither you nor I can surely figure out when life begins and yet still you say, "I am born this way." How have you possibly made sense of that in your own mind, newb?

I say that I was born this way because being homosexuality is a part of one's DNA. But of course you disagree with that so I might as well be saying nothing. And no I do not reject scripture. I definitely plan on pursuing a loving, God-centered relationship with another man one day. And if all of what you say were true then why do I feel no conviction from God? And don't says heart is hard because you don't know me like that.

What would make you think it's not? Was it the verses I quoted about St. Peter vouching for St. Paul when he very explicitly and very obviously condemned homosexuality? Was it me telling you what nearly 95+% of the Christian, Jewish and Muslim population would tell you and have been telling us for thousands of years? That homosexuality has been (since the creation of time itself) and always will be a sin? Please tell me.

the reason why I don't believe your beliefs are not 100% biblical is because I believe that you have undue bias against homosexuality. It's nothing personal to be offended by. You've lived your entire life in a world that was completely against anyone with any hint of any thought of homosexuality. That world and its values are so much a part of you that how could your thought process not have at least some level of stubborn bias.

 

[Kimber321]

There are no studies showing that homosexuality is in a person's DNA, or anything else. Even the LGBT concedes that. But people keep saying there is so, by word of mouth, people keep believing there is. :/

 

[SpencerTracy]

I say that I was born this way because being homosexuality is a part of one's DNA.

Exactly what I've been trying to get through you, newb. God didn't say it, the Apostles didn't say it, the Bible didn't say it, and not even science said, but you said it.

And no I do not reject scripture.

You don't? This quote:

I definitely plan on pursuing a loving, God-centered relationship with another man one day.

...tells me that you do.

And if all of what you say were true then why do I feel no conviction from God?

Knowing God is not about feelings, newb. If that were the case - if truly being one with the Father meant that we live our lives according to what we feel like doing - then when someone hurts us in any way, instead of praying for them, we would vindicate ourselves by doing to them whatever it is that they did to us. Why? Because that's what we would feel like doing. But in truth, we are told not to live according to how we feel. Here are three verses that will confirm this for you:

Jeremiah 17:9: "The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure. Who can understand it?"

Proverbs 28:26: "He that trusteth in his own heart is a fool: but whoso walketh wisely, he shall be delivered."

Proverbs 14:12: "There is a way that appears to be right, but in the end it leads to death."


​

Do you see? Homosexuality appears right to you, but in the end, what happens? A way that is not in line with God's true word leads to death. Which is precisely what I've been telling you.

And don't says heart is hard because you don't know me like that.

I don't need to know you like that. In fact, I don't need to know you at all. If I went on a message board and started posting about how being drunk was no problem, as long as I sat home and drank "responsibly" and started telling everyone that what Scripture was "really" talking about when it referred to being drunk was if you put other peoples lives at risk by driving or even physically harming them in some way, what would you say? Would you need to know my name, my heart or anything else about me to know that my interpretation of Scripture was dead wrong? So in like manner, we don't need to know you to know that you're wrong about what you say.

the reason why I don't believe your beliefs are not 100% biblical is because I believe that you have undue bias against homosexuality.

Yet again, what you believe has lead you down a wrong path. All you've done right here is assume - based probably and unfortunately on your own personal experience of how so many Christians treat homosexuals. It's understandable, but let me tell you, even if the extreme were true and I had hatred in my heart toward homosexuals (which I don't) and even if every single person on this planet felt hatred in their heart as well, it does not in any way take away from what God has asked of His people But if you look two posts up, even ThomistColin, who is a homosexual, admits that it's evil and that it's a sin and that it's a part of a fallen state, so what do you think about him? Does he also have an undue bias against homosexuality?

Newb, like I said before, just stop for a second. This isn't a race. Live your life, read Scripture as much as you can and pray for a heart that is receptive to God's word. Just do that for now and trust me you'll be okay.

 

[nicknack100]

Thank you all for your replies, I completely forgot about this thread until now! this has seriously helped me out a lot, and I do disgree with newb because of his contradictory explanations.

 

[PierceM]

Kid, im prob gonna get alot of hate for this. But if your gay; thats okay! God wouldnt hate you he created you. I dont know what others are telling you but my take on all this is dont be what your not. If you gay dont hide it or go into deniel about it. That will only hurt yourself. Embrace who you are as a person. I personally dont belive that the bible is aginst homosexuality. Considering the bible was translated it could easily be a miss translation...

 

[nicknack100]

Kid, im prob gonna get alot of hate for this. But if your gay; thats okay! God wouldnt hate you he created you. I dont know what others are telling you but my take on all this is dont be what your not. If you gay dont hide it or go into deniel about it. That will only hurt yourself. Embrace who you are as a person. I personally dont belive that the bible is aginst homosexuality. Considering the bible was translated it could easily be a miss translation...

If you believe the Bible could be easily mis-translated then why would you follow any of it at all? your opinion on the matter honestly doesn't matter to me unless you fully believe in the Bible.
1 Corinthians 6:9
Romans 1:26-27
And need I mention Leviticus.

 

[Mo0448]

My personal take is that we should embrace and love the sinner as Christ loves us all and not the sin...if someone has the inclination to homosexuality like say one may have an inclination to looking at pornography or lust or any form of addiction a sin is a sin in God's eyes whether we consider it "small" or "large" sins...however the important thing to recognize is while one may or may not be inclined to particular sins, as Christians we need to resist and deny ourselves of our own desires, and pick up our Crosses and follow the Lord. I firmly believe that a man and a woman complement each other and were made for one another "blood of my blood flesh of my flesh" as Adam said.

The difficulty here is the differing views on how to handle the knowledge we have. I wish it was easier to just say be yourself and embrace yourself who you are etc...but I believe (no offense to anyone) that this couldn't be further from the truth...I believe that when we accept Christ into our lives we are taking upon ourselves to denounce who we are (imperfect sinning human beings) to instead be cloaked and through Christ's Righteousness and sacrifice on the cross we are made new...however this means as I stated before, to denounce who we were before Christ...not to claim we are all perfect once we become Christians but go through a process of sanctification where everyday we become more like him...small steps forward and such.

While I cannot imagine the difficult time you are having with this (people telling you one thing, others telling you something else, some condemning you to hell others embracing you as you are) I do believe that there is a light at the end of the tunnel, Christ promises us that he will satisfy all our needs all our desires and that if we focus on that and fall more in love with him, the things of the world will no longer attract us the same way ( I believe this to be true in any circumstance whichever sin anyone may suffer from). Granted you may always be "tempted" by your humanity and your inclination, as we are all born with a sinful nature some different from others, I have faith to believe that in Christ you can overcome.

I'll say this though, I believe that the majority of Christians are more quick to condemn than to show grace to people that are struggling with this problem. Yet, the same people that are picking up the stones to cast, struggle with lust alcohol, drug addiction, or pornography addictions. Why are certain sins being picked apart while others are being brushed aside? Does anyone else perceive this?

In closing (I apologize for rambling on, I haven't been on here in a while and I guess I have a lot to say today haha) I believe as Christians we should show grace and embrace and love the sinners and hate the sin, because in God's eyes we are ALL sinners...no one is less sinful than anyone else.

 

[nicknack100]

My personal take is that we should embrace and love the sinner as Christ loves us all and not the sin...if someone has the inclination to homosexuality like say one may have an inclination to looking at pornography or lust or any form of addiction a sin is a sin in God's eyes whether we consider it "small" or "large" sins...however the important thing to recognize is while one may or may not be inclined to particular sins, as Christians we need to resist and deny ourselves of our own desires, and pick up our Crosses and follow the Lord. I firmly believe that a man and a woman complement each other and were made for one another "blood of my blood flesh of my flesh" as Adam said.

The difficulty here is the differing views on how to handle the knowledge we have. I wish it was easier to just say be yourself and embrace yourself who you are etc...but I believe (no offense to anyone) that this couldn't be further from the truth...I believe that when we accept Christ into our lives we are taking upon ourselves to denounce who we are (imperfect sinning human beings) to instead be cloaked and through Christ's Righteousness and sacrifice on the cross we are made new...however this means as I stated before, to denounce who we were before Christ...not to claim we are all perfect once we become Christians but go through a process of sanctification where everyday we become more like him...small steps forward and such.

While I cannot imagine the difficult time you are having with this (people telling you one thing, others telling you something else, some condemning you to hell others embracing you as you are) I do believe that there is a light at the end of the tunnel, Christ promises us that he will satisfy all our needs all our desires and that if we focus on that and fall more in love with him, the things of the world will no longer attract us the same way ( I believe this to be true in any circumstance whichever sin anyone may suffer from). Granted you may always be "tempted" by your humanity and your inclination, as we are all born with a sinful nature some different from others, I have faith to believe that in Christ you can overcome.

I'll say this though, I believe that the majority of Christians are more quick to condemn than to show grace to people that are struggling with this problem. Yet, the same people that are picking up the stones to cast, struggle with lust alcohol, drug addiction, or pornography addictions. Why are certain sins being picked apart while others are being brushed aside? Does anyone else perceive this?

In closing (I apologize for rambling on, I haven't been on here in a while and I guess I have a lot to say today haha) I believe as Christians we should show grace and embrace and love the sinners and hate the sin, because in God's eyes we are ALL sinners...no one is less sinful than anyone else.

Thank you so much, I've been reading my Bible daily, atleast 3 chapters, and praying a lot, I'm so much closer to God than I was just a week ago and I'm already noticing a huge difference, not just in temptation, but in day to day life. My temptations are close to non-existent now and they're just so easy to overcome, I can just say no them and it's that simple now.

 

[ThomistColin]

Thank you so much, I've been reading my Bible daily, atleast 3 chapters, and praying a lot, I'm so much closer to God than I was just a week ago and I'm already noticing a huge difference, not just in temptation, but in day to day life. My temptations are close to non-existent now and they're just so easy to overcome, I can just say no them and it's that simple now.

Hallelujah brother. I will say, don't beat yourself up if you are tempted in dreams. Pray for pure thoughts and dreams, but ocassionally your flesh will tempt you in dreams, but don't fear or despair.

(Really wish someone had warned me about dreams when I was your age).

 

[nicknack100]

Hallelujah brother. I will say, don't beat yourself up if you are tempted in dreams. Pray for pure thoughts and dreams, but ocassionally your flesh will tempt you in dreams, but don't fear or despair.

(Really wish someone had warned me about dreams when I was your age).

Oh gosh, the dreams just a couple weeks ago were extremely vivid and extremely realistic.
They've stopped now thank goodness, praising God for how far I've come!

 

[ThomistColin]

Good. And please don't think I'm saying this to make you afraid, but this path can sometimes be quick through miracles and sometimes its life long. If you ever have questions or fears...there are many of us who struggle here. We keep each other honest.