i recently reed this of a website that does bring up some points about the adam and eve story for example why did god made eve from adams rib but not from sand/dirt. i would like you to have a look at it and give me your opion and answer to some of these questions heres the link http://www.abarnett.demon.co.uk/atheism/eden.html
Adam and Eve some questions
- Thread starter zavok
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S
Sorry for the delay
remember these are mostly my thoughts and theroy
Adam:
First off with the whole genitle thing. In my opinion, since God is God he does not need to urinate or have sex, therefore he wont need then. God most likely gave Adam them, because God probably knew Adam would want a mate.
Eve:
I'm not very good at interpreting scripture, this would be better asked to some one else.
Death:
I absolutly agree that there was bacteria, flies, and bunnies. Remember in Eden there was no death, disease, pain, or sorrow. They could probably jump off a cliff and land on a rock without a scratch. After God placed the curse on the ground, all of nature was set in motion.
The Apple:
The anology he used was that of a child being given a bottle of bleach, unlike a child Adam was fully grown and did have a sense of comprehension. remember a child that hasn't learned to talk will have a much harder time understanding then some one who can. Also don't forget that Satan did have a part to play by persuading Eve, that still doesnt excuse her (same goes to Adam).
Bare Naked Ladies (and Adam):
If God thought nakedness was wrong im pretty sure he'd make us hairy or grow our own clothes on our body. When they ate the fruit and found that they were naked, they found it shameful (I myself find that nudism is perfectly fine, unless it involves pornography). The "Original Sin" was pride, commited by Satan (correct me if i'm wrong). In regards to the animal skin, we must pay for our sins. I believe that God used the animal skins as symbolism, that the inoccent blood must be spilled to cover our sins (same thing goes with the lamb sacrifice). the weather was probably consistant untill after the flood.
Original sin and Aliens:
I think if you are christian you do not believe in alien life forms.
The Kids:
Cain and Abel were not Adam and Eve's only children (infact they had many many children). And of course you're going to say thats inbreeding, and it is. but when Adam and Eve were created they were perfect (appart from their sin) so they wouldn't have the defect problems as we do now. Also that was the only way to populate in the early days lol.
P.S.
Remember those paintings are the artists view on the subject, which means it could be far from true.
I think they probably had tannish colored skin.
P.P.S.
1In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2Now the earth wasa formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.
3And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. 4God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. 5God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day. Genesis 1-5
This is most likely reffering to when he created all the stars and planets.
So thats my post
finally XD
I will gladly do my best to answer any other questions
God bless
remember these are mostly my thoughts and theroy
Adam:
First off with the whole genitle thing. In my opinion, since God is God he does not need to urinate or have sex, therefore he wont need then. God most likely gave Adam them, because God probably knew Adam would want a mate.
Eve:
I'm not very good at interpreting scripture, this would be better asked to some one else.
Death:
I absolutly agree that there was bacteria, flies, and bunnies. Remember in Eden there was no death, disease, pain, or sorrow. They could probably jump off a cliff and land on a rock without a scratch. After God placed the curse on the ground, all of nature was set in motion.
The Apple:
The anology he used was that of a child being given a bottle of bleach, unlike a child Adam was fully grown and did have a sense of comprehension. remember a child that hasn't learned to talk will have a much harder time understanding then some one who can. Also don't forget that Satan did have a part to play by persuading Eve, that still doesnt excuse her (same goes to Adam).
Bare Naked Ladies (and Adam):
If God thought nakedness was wrong im pretty sure he'd make us hairy or grow our own clothes on our body. When they ate the fruit and found that they were naked, they found it shameful (I myself find that nudism is perfectly fine, unless it involves pornography). The "Original Sin" was pride, commited by Satan (correct me if i'm wrong). In regards to the animal skin, we must pay for our sins. I believe that God used the animal skins as symbolism, that the inoccent blood must be spilled to cover our sins (same thing goes with the lamb sacrifice). the weather was probably consistant untill after the flood.
Original sin and Aliens:
I think if you are christian you do not believe in alien life forms.
The Kids:
Cain and Abel were not Adam and Eve's only children (infact they had many many children). And of course you're going to say thats inbreeding, and it is. but when Adam and Eve were created they were perfect (appart from their sin) so they wouldn't have the defect problems as we do now. Also that was the only way to populate in the early days lol.
P.S.
Remember those paintings are the artists view on the subject, which means it could be far from true.
I think they probably had tannish colored skin.
P.P.S.
1In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2Now the earth wasa formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.
3And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. 4God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. 5God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day. Genesis 1-5
This is most likely reffering to when he created all the stars and planets.
So thats my post
finally XDI will gladly do my best to answer any other questions
God bless
O
soooooooooooooooooo none has any answer has this stomped you some how
S
These are some good questions and I think that's the reason not many have responded yet. Here are my views, but in the end these are all opinions.
Adam
I think God gave Adam genitals because He knew He would be creating Eve. I'm not sure why He waited, but maybe He wanted some guy only time with Adam.
Eve
The reason Eve was created from Adam is so they would have a closer relationship to each other I believe, and this is also where marriage was instituted. Genesis 2:22-24 [NIV] - Then the LORD God made a woman from the rib he had taken out of the man, and he brought her to the man. The man said, "This is now bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh; she shall be called 'woman', for she was taken out of man." For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh."
As far as Lilith goes, that's a folktale (not true, not deleted from the bible or hidden from the world).
Death
The Bible says there was no death, so that's what I say. I don't know much about bacteria, but I'm sure God had it figured out.
The Apple
That is a Catch 22! This is another situation where I have to say "God had it figured out". I'll add it to the list of questions to ask Him when I die.
Bare Naked Ladies (and Adam)
This is a long one, let's see if I can explain it. When a child runs around naked, you laugh and it's cute (don't take this the wrong way). That's what Adam and Eve were like at first. They were carefree. Once they had eaten from the fruit they in essence grew up and were embarrassed. Later in the Old Testament it talks about the age of accountability. This basically says that before a certain age a person can't sin, and I think this is the same thing (that's why children go to Heaven).
As far as the clothes, they did come from animals and God prepared them. This was done for multiple reasons - to clothe their nakedness, to keep them warm, and to cover their sin. Leviticus 17:11 - For the life of a creature is in the blood, and I have given it to you to make atonement for yourselves on the alter; it is the blood that makes atonement for one's life.
Not sure if the weather changed and they needed the clothes to keep warm in Eden, but they were getting the boot soon. Also killing animals isn't a sin (though it may be if done inhumanely).
Original Sin and Aliens
I don't believe in Aliens.
The Kids
There are two explanations for this one. 1) Cain married his sister before inbreeding was a problem, 2) God created more people after Adam and Eve and Cain married one of them. I believe the second because he was in the land of Nod when he met her (that is to say, outside the land belonging to Adam and his family).
Planets
This is another wait and ask God question. Maybe he took extra time on our planet to give it all the fun stuff, and the rest of the planets only took a couple minutes. Maybe He made 'base models' for gravitational purposes and fine tuned them over the years (after all, He knew we wouldn't be inspecting his handiwork for a while). No clue.
*saves his post first*
Adam
I think God gave Adam genitals because He knew He would be creating Eve. I'm not sure why He waited, but maybe He wanted some guy only time with Adam.
Eve
The reason Eve was created from Adam is so they would have a closer relationship to each other I believe, and this is also where marriage was instituted. Genesis 2:22-24 [NIV] - Then the LORD God made a woman from the rib he had taken out of the man, and he brought her to the man. The man said, "This is now bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh; she shall be called 'woman', for she was taken out of man." For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh."
As far as Lilith goes, that's a folktale (not true, not deleted from the bible or hidden from the world).
Death
The Bible says there was no death, so that's what I say. I don't know much about bacteria, but I'm sure God had it figured out.
The Apple
That is a Catch 22! This is another situation where I have to say "God had it figured out". I'll add it to the list of questions to ask Him when I die.
Bare Naked Ladies (and Adam)
This is a long one, let's see if I can explain it. When a child runs around naked, you laugh and it's cute (don't take this the wrong way). That's what Adam and Eve were like at first. They were carefree. Once they had eaten from the fruit they in essence grew up and were embarrassed. Later in the Old Testament it talks about the age of accountability. This basically says that before a certain age a person can't sin, and I think this is the same thing (that's why children go to Heaven).
As far as the clothes, they did come from animals and God prepared them. This was done for multiple reasons - to clothe their nakedness, to keep them warm, and to cover their sin. Leviticus 17:11 - For the life of a creature is in the blood, and I have given it to you to make atonement for yourselves on the alter; it is the blood that makes atonement for one's life.
Not sure if the weather changed and they needed the clothes to keep warm in Eden, but they were getting the boot soon. Also killing animals isn't a sin (though it may be if done inhumanely).
Original Sin and Aliens
I don't believe in Aliens.
The Kids
There are two explanations for this one. 1) Cain married his sister before inbreeding was a problem, 2) God created more people after Adam and Eve and Cain married one of them. I believe the second because he was in the land of Nod when he met her (that is to say, outside the land belonging to Adam and his family).
Planets
This is another wait and ask God question. Maybe he took extra time on our planet to give it all the fun stuff, and the rest of the planets only took a couple minutes. Maybe He made 'base models' for gravitational purposes and fine tuned them over the years (after all, He knew we wouldn't be inspecting his handiwork for a while). No clue.
*saves his post first*
O
Ok, to entertain you, I will attempt to answer it as biblically as possible but you should be forewarned, it will give you more questions than answers.
Adam:
Probably the whole package. You have to remember than it is impossible for anyone, even Christians, to define what "God" is and isn't. What we can describe but that's all based on human-perception (which as you know, is quite limited). Each analogy is limited in its own that you can only take the technicalities so far before the analogy begins to fail. I have no idea how theologians come up with this but somehow they are able to and back it up with some kind of evidence but apparently, throughout the Bible, God Himself prophesies the coming of Christ in various analogies and themes. For example, Moses striking the rock to bring forth water is analogous to Christ being crucified for the living water to pour out. Then afterward, all Moses had to do was call out to the rock and water would come forth for one to drink.
In this case, Adam and Eve - the husband-wife analogy. In its simplest form, we (the wife) were created for Christ (the husband). One could even stretch it as far as saying that we are Jesus' "helpers." (see New Jerusalem and what people guess will happen there)
Why did God wait to give Adam his wife? One could say that God wanted to illustrate that man was insufficient and must rely on God to provide the rest. So God created man, waited to show that it was insufficient, then created Eve to show that God is needed to complete things. Reliance on God completes things - rely on God and all else falls into place.
Eve:
1. Lilith = myth. It is difficult to determine exact wordings for the oldest of the books of the Bible. So, some people second-guess what they read particularly the genealogies. Lilith was one of them.
2. Husband-wife analogy again. To say that the wife comes from the husband. Essentially, is a part of the husband for completion. That is why one feels lonely until they find their other-half, so to speak. But extended to Christ, we are from Him (Trinity), and to be complete, we need to be with Him. Again, you need to be careful with the analogy because the opposite (that Christ needs us for completion) can become un-biblical.
Death:
1. One could say that the world could have supposedly populated until there was no more room. However, since God is omnipotent and omniscient, He already knows this wouldn't be a problem. So, it wasn't a concern for Him to create things that could reproduce because eventually, He knows it is needed.
2. I have heard the dinosaur theory before. Personally, I think it's dangerous to speculate on things we really don't know or probably wouldn't understand even if God explained it to us. Someone said that dinosaurs were the result of Satan's genetic experimentation. God creates but Satan perverses and manipulates. Though the creation/perversion explanation fits with biblical ideologies, it's a bit of a stretch also because, honestly, we don't know. So, following this explanation, I guess you could say that flies and creepy crawlies were not created by God. So the world wouldn't have oozed in flies and stuff.
3. Death was natural for animals but not so for humans is the other explanation. By "death" one has to define it in the biblical sense. I didn't look it up but you can but I would guess that "death" doesn't apply to non-humans. "Death" for non-humans is natural, perhaps? Death for humans were not? So death for humans came about because of sin. Again, ask God when you die.
4. Who is to say that before death, bacterial did not exist? The writer's argument fails here. He is using a current world-view example to explain a failure for the present. Just because today we cannot live without bacteria, it doesn't mean that before sin, the world couldn't live without bacteria.
Apple:
Not really a catch-22. You see, from a biblical reading, Adam and Eve seem to know what death and living is. Read the part where the serpent tempts Eve to eat the fruit. If you read it through, the question of death and living was never... well, a question. From a straight reading, it seemed as though both Eve and the serpent were very aware of what death is like.
So here's the question... why did Eve choose to eat the fruit? Free-choice. Just because you are without sin, that doesn't mean you cannot choose. God illustrates that He allows free-choice. In fact, we all have free-choice. You can choose to steal or not steal. No one will "stop" you. However, with each choice, there is a consequence. To choose to steal, you could get caught and be sent to prison. The question is about living with the consequence.
The scene also illustrates God's love for His creation. The consequence is death. But Adam and Eve were not struck dead. God let them live. Of course, one could also say that they did receive death as their punishment because in the end, they grew old and died. But in many instances throughout the Bible, the consequence for sinning was death. God didn't even hesitate to carry out the punishment in those instances. But for Adam and Eve, He spared them. He forgave them and let them loose on a lesser punishment.
One big view of why God did many of the things He did is to take the opportunity to show that He is a just and loving God and that He really is all-powerful. Without sin, Satan, and us humans, He would never have the opportunity to show all these characteristics of Himself. Of course, you can go into circular arguments.
Nudity:
Understanding this would require one to be without sin. Remember, this is already post-sin. So everything else is just speculation. But along the same reasoning, if one is without sin, one would probably not have eaten Eve or tested the aerodynamic abilities of small rodents.
Babies are born nude into this world. Is there anything "sinful" about that? No. But it becomes sinful when you perverse nudity into something else. So for a pedophile, naked children excites him/her so that is a perversion of something natural = sinful.
Sin had already entered the world. Which means there was death. Why not kill the animal to make clothing? Given the issues illustrated in the death heading, why not just pick one and go with it?
Aliens:
lol
I have heard that aliens are actually fallen angels or Nephiliam.
Even if aliens exist, who is to say that God did not provide the same deal that He did for us? It doesn't prove anything either for or against.
Cain & Abel:
Actually, there were many more children. Back then, they were allowed to inter-breed amongst themselves. Even in the days of Abraham, it was acceptable because there just weren't that many people around. Cain and Abel was to illustrate the first murder and what God wanted as sacrifice - not fruits, but animals/blood-sacrifice. The thing with Cain and Abel is that somehow, there was already a concept of calling out to God for His favour.
Also, I have not looked into it but you might want to look at the Eve gene or whatever it's called.
Adam:
Probably the whole package. You have to remember than it is impossible for anyone, even Christians, to define what "God" is and isn't. What we can describe but that's all based on human-perception (which as you know, is quite limited). Each analogy is limited in its own that you can only take the technicalities so far before the analogy begins to fail. I have no idea how theologians come up with this but somehow they are able to and back it up with some kind of evidence but apparently, throughout the Bible, God Himself prophesies the coming of Christ in various analogies and themes. For example, Moses striking the rock to bring forth water is analogous to Christ being crucified for the living water to pour out. Then afterward, all Moses had to do was call out to the rock and water would come forth for one to drink.
In this case, Adam and Eve - the husband-wife analogy. In its simplest form, we (the wife) were created for Christ (the husband). One could even stretch it as far as saying that we are Jesus' "helpers." (see New Jerusalem and what people guess will happen there)
Why did God wait to give Adam his wife? One could say that God wanted to illustrate that man was insufficient and must rely on God to provide the rest. So God created man, waited to show that it was insufficient, then created Eve to show that God is needed to complete things. Reliance on God completes things - rely on God and all else falls into place.
Eve:
1. Lilith = myth. It is difficult to determine exact wordings for the oldest of the books of the Bible. So, some people second-guess what they read particularly the genealogies. Lilith was one of them.
2. Husband-wife analogy again. To say that the wife comes from the husband. Essentially, is a part of the husband for completion. That is why one feels lonely until they find their other-half, so to speak. But extended to Christ, we are from Him (Trinity), and to be complete, we need to be with Him. Again, you need to be careful with the analogy because the opposite (that Christ needs us for completion) can become un-biblical.
Death:
1. One could say that the world could have supposedly populated until there was no more room. However, since God is omnipotent and omniscient, He already knows this wouldn't be a problem. So, it wasn't a concern for Him to create things that could reproduce because eventually, He knows it is needed.
2. I have heard the dinosaur theory before. Personally, I think it's dangerous to speculate on things we really don't know or probably wouldn't understand even if God explained it to us. Someone said that dinosaurs were the result of Satan's genetic experimentation. God creates but Satan perverses and manipulates. Though the creation/perversion explanation fits with biblical ideologies, it's a bit of a stretch also because, honestly, we don't know. So, following this explanation, I guess you could say that flies and creepy crawlies were not created by God. So the world wouldn't have oozed in flies and stuff.
3. Death was natural for animals but not so for humans is the other explanation. By "death" one has to define it in the biblical sense. I didn't look it up but you can but I would guess that "death" doesn't apply to non-humans. "Death" for non-humans is natural, perhaps? Death for humans were not? So death for humans came about because of sin. Again, ask God when you die.
4. Who is to say that before death, bacterial did not exist? The writer's argument fails here. He is using a current world-view example to explain a failure for the present. Just because today we cannot live without bacteria, it doesn't mean that before sin, the world couldn't live without bacteria.
Apple:
Not really a catch-22. You see, from a biblical reading, Adam and Eve seem to know what death and living is. Read the part where the serpent tempts Eve to eat the fruit. If you read it through, the question of death and living was never... well, a question. From a straight reading, it seemed as though both Eve and the serpent were very aware of what death is like.
So here's the question... why did Eve choose to eat the fruit? Free-choice. Just because you are without sin, that doesn't mean you cannot choose. God illustrates that He allows free-choice. In fact, we all have free-choice. You can choose to steal or not steal. No one will "stop" you. However, with each choice, there is a consequence. To choose to steal, you could get caught and be sent to prison. The question is about living with the consequence.
The scene also illustrates God's love for His creation. The consequence is death. But Adam and Eve were not struck dead. God let them live. Of course, one could also say that they did receive death as their punishment because in the end, they grew old and died. But in many instances throughout the Bible, the consequence for sinning was death. God didn't even hesitate to carry out the punishment in those instances. But for Adam and Eve, He spared them. He forgave them and let them loose on a lesser punishment.
One big view of why God did many of the things He did is to take the opportunity to show that He is a just and loving God and that He really is all-powerful. Without sin, Satan, and us humans, He would never have the opportunity to show all these characteristics of Himself. Of course, you can go into circular arguments.
Nudity:
Understanding this would require one to be without sin. Remember, this is already post-sin. So everything else is just speculation. But along the same reasoning, if one is without sin, one would probably not have eaten Eve or tested the aerodynamic abilities of small rodents.
Babies are born nude into this world. Is there anything "sinful" about that? No. But it becomes sinful when you perverse nudity into something else. So for a pedophile, naked children excites him/her so that is a perversion of something natural = sinful.
Sin had already entered the world. Which means there was death. Why not kill the animal to make clothing? Given the issues illustrated in the death heading, why not just pick one and go with it?
Aliens:
lol
I have heard that aliens are actually fallen angels or Nephiliam.
Even if aliens exist, who is to say that God did not provide the same deal that He did for us? It doesn't prove anything either for or against.
Cain & Abel:
Actually, there were many more children. Back then, they were allowed to inter-breed amongst themselves. Even in the days of Abraham, it was acceptable because there just weren't that many people around. Cain and Abel was to illustrate the first murder and what God wanted as sacrifice - not fruits, but animals/blood-sacrifice. The thing with Cain and Abel is that somehow, there was already a concept of calling out to God for His favour.
Also, I have not looked into it but you might want to look at the Eve gene or whatever it's called.
O
I would like to know your thoughts on why red is red.
Redundancy leads to circular reasoning though I have an inkling that the primary purpose of this thread isn't so much to learn but rather to provide yourself with some entertainment. How close am I to that reasoning? I have not read enough of your posts to know your personality but perhaps this is why most people are not bothering to reply?
However, if you are genuine about learning, I don't think people would mind sharing their thoughts with you.
Redundancy leads to circular reasoning though I have an inkling that the primary purpose of this thread isn't so much to learn but rather to provide yourself with some entertainment. How close am I to that reasoning?
I have not read enough of your posts to know your personality but perhaps this is why most people are not bothering to reply?However, if you are genuine about learning, I don't think people would mind sharing their thoughts with you.
S
Dear Zavok,
There is a very simple, but intense reason why GOD did what HE did in the Garden, the Adam and Eve story.........
There is a lot to it, and I will gladly explain it to you, ESPECIALLY THE SIGNIFICANCE OF THE RIB........
Unfortunately, I am currently preparing to leave for Chicago, I'm taking a flight in about 2 hours.............So perhaps from my hotel room tomorrow I will begin this expose'
Just for you, I will title it ..........EVES RIB........BONE OF CONTENTION. ...........So, when you see this thread, you can go from there.....
Talk to you then.......I may not get to do this tomorrow, if I don't I will start it when I get back from Chicago, which will be on Monday...........ok?
SeekinHIM
There is a very simple, but intense reason why GOD did what HE did in the Garden, the Adam and Eve story.........
There is a lot to it, and I will gladly explain it to you, ESPECIALLY THE SIGNIFICANCE OF THE RIB........
Unfortunately, I am currently preparing to leave for Chicago, I'm taking a flight in about 2 hours.............So perhaps from my hotel room tomorrow I will begin this expose'
Just for you, I will title it ..........EVES RIB........BONE OF CONTENTION. ...........So, when you see this thread, you can go from there.....
Talk to you then.......I may not get to do this tomorrow, if I don't I will start it when I get back from Chicago, which will be on Monday...........ok?
SeekinHIM