Homosexuality and The Church: Gay Bashing From The Pulpit

[unclefester]

I think all war criminals should be tried.

That includes the current Nobel Peace Prize dude that still supports illegal off-shoring of Torture and illegal imprisonment.

But perhaps we will have to leave that up to the Maker, to dish out Justice Because no one really has the power to do this.

But that being aside, whether you wanna blame Saddam (He's dead now) or whatever.... I'm sure these guys have ruined more lives, brought more terror on the earth than gay people have.

But what are Christians focused on? "Get the Gays".

No where in the Bible does God say Christianity is a two issue faith. Gays and Abortion.

It is a Republican thing. Why? Look at the rise of the Religious Right? Prior to that Christians actively kept out of Politics. Then some people decided to Combine the two. God's Own party? (The very term is disgusting).

Guess what guys, it doesn't just stay in the US borders, the Religious Right Propaganda has spread to other Countries. My Country, African countries.

It's an evil perversion.

It's NOT what Christ taught, it's NOT what Christ ordained.

It's perverted.

Although I tend to be conservative in a lot of my views David, I'm miles away from subscribing to the religious right. I believe that their platform has kept away at least as many new converts as it has won ....likely more. The "fear and hell awaits you message" has always felt contrary to how I envisioned God. I find myself at a crossroads these days. I want to do right in God's eyes. But I also want to feel Christ's empathy for those struggling on a daily basis with whatever burden it is they carry. Pretty hard to be compassionate and condemning in the same breath. If I have to choose one, it'll be compassion every time. Like you and everybody else here, I'm well aware of what the bible says about homosexuality. And I wouldn't disagree that it says likewise about a host of other transgressions as well. I admit to being perplexed on the topic. If these people genuinely have a natural attraction (natural to them) to the same gender, how then does our loving God reconcile this with His word ? Your earlier post made a lot of sense ......that's why I commended you for it Difficult as figuring this mess out might be and we may never get there, I'm confident that God's up to the challenge of any questions we might throw His way. Too easy just to discard a segment of the population, hide ourselves behind our bibles and say ......"God's word says you're a deviant" .....and then neglect to feel the love and compassion for them that Christ showed for the rest of us sinners. This thinking doesn't cut it for me. We all have to do better than this. I'm looking for answers much the same as everybody else. I enjoy reading your posts

 

[GreenNnice]

Fire7, God does not send 'sinners' to Hell, as you put it, only unbelievers go to Hell So smile all you sinners, homosexuals, adulterers, God will take you just the way you are as long as you believe God is real and are born again which is a part of the believing process, that is, speaking of being born again John 3:16.
The important thing with homosexuality, adultery, etc, is that we pray for those we think are doing wrong but LET God handle them. a homosexual can certainly be a believer so dont judge them lest they FALL. That would bring judgment on you from..... God.

 

[Fire7]

Not that I owe anyone an explanation, as you are not God. But for the sake of Truth (which I am committed to above all else) and conversation (since I brought up the issue), I will say that you all make some good points on some things that you have said, and I appreciate your input.

One thing I have to diagree on, however, is the idea that no one can be born gay. I don't know why so many Christians and ministers insist on this idea. But it is totally false. It may be true in some cases that someone was just influenced by their peers and indulged in homosexuality because of peer pressure. I have seen this happen (well, heard of it). There have also been homosexuals who have given into heterosexual peer pressure--had relations with the opposite sex and regretted it later. So this idea that gay people are all about recruiting is also false, because straight people recruit just as much. I think, just to be faur and give the other side the bnefit of the doubt, that it is 50/50. I think that some people are gay by societal influence, while others are gay because of genetic disposition (there are reasons I believe this--not just because I want to). It may be a "theory", but isn't the bible itself a book of theories? Where is the proof that every stopry in the bible actually happened? So, apparently, you can't always base truth on facts.

As a man with SSA (notice I don't call myslef homosexual, because I'm on the fence in the matter), aside form science and research, I can personally tell you that I don't just like men because I want to like them. If that was the case, I would've given it up a long time ago. Do you really think I want to feel like a social outcast, lonely, isolated, ashamed, different? I heard of a story of a gay man who, when he was a young boy, and his family would go to the neighborhood swimming pool, he would sink himself to the bottom of the pool and hold his breath, hoping that when he floated to the top, he would be "normal", This is one story of countless stories of people trying their hardest to be something they're not, and eventually giving up and saying, "This is me, I'm just going to have to live with it." You might say "You're just not trusting in the power of God to heal you." Well, tell that to the many people who have cried out to God in fasting and prayer, asking Him to take the desire away from them, only to wake up with the same SSA, eventually having to classify themself as a "gay christian." Also tell that to Michael Bussee, one of the founders of "Exodus International", the largest "exgay" organization in the nation, who strived for years to live the life of a heterosexual Christian (married and all), only to later have to admit that his exgayness was a lie--in turn, exposing the dishonesty in the organization, and inspiring other ex ex gays to speak out against the ex-gay movement.

But back to me. I personally have never been attracted to females. And I can remember back as far as age 5. I can remember my first crush and all. Now, where did all of this come from, I don't know. But I also know that one of my parents was once practicing homosexuality, long before I was born, before becoming a Christian. It may have been a "generational curse" or "genetic predisposition". Whatever name you put on it, it's the same thing. But, SSA is all I know. I have tried to imagine what it would be like to be "straight", but that's as far as I can go with it. The thought of heterosexual intercourse is, to put it bluntly, disgusting to me! The same as homosexual sex would be disgusting to you. I can and do appreciate the beauty of women--some I greatly admire. So, I don't hate women. But the thought of being intimate with them is a line I don't cross. Why? Because I feel deeply that I would not be being true to myself. Call it "selfish" all you want. But unless you are in my shoes, you simply cannot understand my conviction in the matter. If I was to have intercourse with a woman (hypothetically speaking), it would simply be going through the motions--mechanical. Because I can't relate to a female on that level. A man, on the other hand, I can relate to physically and emotionally. I can't explain why I get goosebumps and my heart goes to beating faster than normal, when a beautiful man walks by, and I feel so compelled to be in his arms...but every part of my being is involved in loving a man. And it's not something I try to do. It just comes natural. This was before I ever did anything with a male. I felt deep down inside that I could love another male on all levels, just as if I had already done it.

And for the sake of theory: if you say that it's impossible for a person to be born gay, you are contradicting the bible right there. Because the bible even says that man is "born in sin, and shaped in iniquity...". So, by saying that a person can't be born gay, you're refuting your own argument that it's a sin. We should really think about what we're believing and saying before we say it.

 

[David_1]

What I do not like is the hypocrisy. You're claiming the religious right is sooooo terrible, yet invoking your preference for the religious left.

Please, be consistant. Let's stick to the topic though. I'll help.

You called me a Hypocrite then spoke down to me.

Congrats!

 

[wolfywolfs]

Fire7, God does not send 'sinners' to Hell, as you put it, only unbelievers go to Hell So smile all you sinners, homosexuals, adulterers, God will take you just the way you are as long as you believe God is real and are born again which is a part of the believing process, that is, speaking of being born again John 3:16.
The important thing with homosexuality, adultery, etc, is that we pray for those we think are doing wrong but LET God handle them. a homosexual can certainly be a believer so dont judge them lest they FALL. That would bring judgment on you from..... God.

so if a serial killer is a beliver he/she goes to heaven wow hell sounds better already

 

[Phoebzter]

Not that I owe anyone an explanation, as you are not God. But for the sake of Truth (which I am committed to above all else) and conversation (since I brought up the issue), I will say that you all make some good points on some things that you have said, and I appreciate your input.

One thing I have to diagree on, however, is the idea that no one can be born gay. I don't know why so many Christians and ministers insist on this idea. But it is totally false. It may be true in some cases that someone was just influenced by their peers and indulged in homosexuality because of peer pressure. I have seen this happen (well, heard of it). There have also been homosexuals who have given into heterosexual peer pressure--had relations with the opposite sex and regretted it later. So this idea that gay people are all about recruiting is also false, because straight people recruit just as much. I think, just to be faur and give the other side the bnefit of the doubt, that it is 50/50. I think that some people are gay by societal influence, while others are gay because of genetic disposition (there are reasons I believe this--not just because I want to). It may be a "theory", but isn't the bible itself a book of theories? Where is the proof that every stopry in the bible actually happened? So, apparently, you can't always base truth on facts.

As a man with SSA (notice I don't call myslef homosexual, because I'm on the fence in the matter), aside form science and research, I can personally tell you that I don't just like men because I want to like them. If that was the case, I would've given it up a long time ago. Do you really think I want to feel like a social outcast, lonely, isolated, ashamed, different? I heard of a story of a gay man who, when he was a young boy, and his family would go to the neighborhood swimming pool, he would sink himself to the bottom of the pool and hold his breath, hoping that when he floated to the top, he would be "normal", This is one story of countless stories of people trying their hardest to be something they're not, and eventually giving up and saying, "This is me, I'm just going to have to live with it." You might say "You're just not trusting in the power of God to heal you." Well, tell that to the many people who have cried out to God in fasting and prayer, asking Him to take the desire away from them, only to wake up with the same SSA, eventually having to classify themself as a "gay christian." Also tell that to Michael Bussee, one of the founders of "Exodus International", the largest "exgay" organization in the nation, who strived for years to live the life of a heterosexual Christian (married and all), only to later have to admit that his exgayness was a lie--in turn, exposing the dishonesty in the organization, and inspiring other ex ex gays to speak out against the ex-gay movement.

But back to me. I personally have never been attracted to females. And I can remember back as far as age 5. I can remember my first crush and all. Now, where did all of this come from, I don't know. But I also know that one of my parents was once practicing homosexuality, long before I was born, before becoming a Christian. It may have been a "generational curse" or "genetic predisposition". Whatever name you put on it, it's the same thing. But, SSA is all I know. I have tried to imagine what it would be like to be "straight", but that's as far as I can go with it. The thought of heterosexual intercourse is, to put it bluntly, disgusting to me! The same as homosexual sex would be disgusting to you. I can and do appreciate the beauty of women--some I greatly admire. So, I don't hate women. But the thought of being intimate with them is a line I don't cross. Why? Because I feel deeply that I would not be being true to myself. Call it "selfish" all you want. But unless you are in my shoes, you simply cannot understand my conviction in the matter. If I was to have intercourse with a woman (hypothetically speaking), it would simply be going through the motions--mechanical. Because I can't relate to a female on that level. A man, on the other hand, I can relate to physically and emotionally. I can't explain why I get goosebumps and my heart goes to beating faster than normal, when a beautiful man walks by, and I feel so compelled to be in his arms...but every part of my being is involved in loving a man. And it's not something I try to do. It just comes natural. This was before I ever did anything with a male. I felt deep down inside that I could love another male on all levels, just as if I had already done it.

And for the sake of theory: if you say that it's impossible for a person to be born gay, you are contradicting the bible right there. Because the bible even says that man is "born in sin, and shaped in iniquity...". So, by saying that a person can't be born gay, you're refuting your own argument that it's a sin. We should really think about what we're believing and saying before we say it.

I admire your honesty and vulnerability. I can relate to a lot of what your describing. I don't quite understand why I feel such a pull towards women and not men. I always thought I was different growing up, but then again everyone must to a certain extent, feel out of place. I always hated watching chick flicks, because it was always a guy and a girl, never two girls. When my mom and my sister wanted me to watch chick flicks, I told them it is always the same story and they are sooo boring!! But I never told them why I thought that. Growing up, I would wonder if other girls would feel the same things I was feeling toward them. But since all they every talked about was this cute boy, or that hot guy I knew the answer. When I never dated any guys or talk much about them, except in the concept of friendship, my family never suspected much. I told them since we moved so much, it would be useless to get into a relationship with a guy because we would leave soon anyways. I would become so nervous around girls I was attracted to that I would ignore them completely or try to avoid them at all costs. Consequently, I was seen as stuck up and never made many close girlfriends. I would always feel out of place when it came to girl conversation anyways, cause I couldn't relate to much of what they were talking about. Once I did make a close friend that was a girl, I found myself siting apart on a couch, shying away from any physical contact, scared I would feel something I shouldn't and hate myself for it. Needless to say, those friendships became strained and eventually we moved. But I guess I have always believed that God would not allow me to be born with these desires that I shouldn't have and then say, Don't go there!! But maybe He does in a way. Because like you said, if you think about it, we are all born with desire that God speaks against. Maybe they will always be there. But that doesn't mean He can't give us the strength to resist what we so desperately feel we need in order to be completely happy. I have never kissed a girl or held hands or had sex. But have I wanted to? Definitely. I have tried dating guys seriously, just to see if God might make a miracle happen. But eventually I discovered that things just were not clicking. They were all in, and I was scratching my head wondering what in the heck I was doing. I haven't done anything with a guy either physically though. Maybe God wants me to be celibate. I have no idea. All I know is that so far I still have attractions towards women and not men in the same way. I will continue to try and live as He commands and for me this means not acting on my attractions and steering clear of areas and situations where I know I could let my guard down.
All I can say is, I can understand where your coming from. But so does Christ, he sees you right where you are and knows what your facing. He can sympathize. And He give all the strength to ensure when we can muster it up within ourselves. We can't lean on our own understanding of such matters though, that is all I know. Jesus keep you

 

[Phoebzter]

I meant to say He gives us the strength we need when we can't muster up anything within ourselves.

 

[Ching_Yang]

Hello! Thank you! that's what I've been trying to tell them. None of them agree though. They can say they are,but they aren't. They profess to be,but they obviously haven't confessed to Christ. If they did,they didn't mean it or something,cause you can NOT be homosexual,and be a Christian,it's just NOT possible at all.Be prepared dear,they'll attack you next. They all gang up and try to point their fingers at you and say that it's YOU who is wrong. Just pray for them,wish them all the best,and say God bless them. Thank you for helping take a stand FOR the truth rather than AGAINST it!

Umad? I don't mean to be a troll, but it seems that you're getting heated while others are calmly speaking the issue. No I am not homosexual, no I am not judging you, or judging them. But I am a sinner. honest to say, you speak like you have no sin. I am firm on homosexuality being wrong, but their sinful nature is sin just like you and I have sin. I say as long as they firmly trust the lord with the issue, that's all they can do, and more for you to encourage them, and show them the love of a brother and sister that we are. You're probably going to storm a full novel of rage; but before you do. I wanna let you know, I use to be like you 'til I saw you write on this form. I recognize that homosexuality is a sin struggle, just like I have a sin struggle with porn. I'm not proud of being a sinner, but I depend on my lord for strength that I may keep myself from the sinful nature that we were all born with.

I say that if someone isn't proud of being gay, those are the ones that need the most loving, in terms of this issue. The ones that claim gay pride are the ignorant ones who are like you say. they are dead in their sin, and have a twisted view of the bible.

I don't support the gay movement. I don't support gay actions, and I don't believe that you can be a homosexual and gain the kingdom of heaven. But that doesn't mean that we can't love 'em and show them the light to come back. Just as Jesus lead the world back to Him.

lastly: Have patience with those who you think that are "disgusting", twisted the view of the bible, and show them the light if you have the light. we are all disgusting according to the word. but it's through Jesus Christ that makes us a new and beautiful creature.

this is my first and last post on this issue.

ching.

 

[jimmydiggs]

You called me a Hypocrite then spoke down to me.

Congrats!

Which part was condescending?

 

[Scottybrandon]

29 They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30 slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31 they are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless. 32 Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them. - Romans 1:29-32

I just wish preachers would speak against gossipers and slanderers, greedy people and arrogant people with the same passion and fervor that they speak out against homosexuality, what about gluttony and sloth.

 

[Shane26]

Fire7's main point was this "The bible clearly addresses this issue and states in more than one passage that it's sinful. So, it's only natural and understandable that the church would identify sin and fight against it. However, I'm wondering how equiped the church is to handle such a major issue. I think it is unbalanced--mainly because we are too opinionated. " You seem to completely miss the point of his or her article. In fact you don't even seem like you read it and retained information of what you read. that's exactly what he or she is talking about. you're so against homosexuality that it blinds you from any real true reasonable ability to approach the subject and also diminishes your ability to be compassionate judging from your response it also takes away from your ability to think clearly. FIRE7 NEVER SAID IT WASN'T A SIN! why don't you read the article again?

 

[Tobby17]

I dunno, but the bible does list a lot of things as sin, and it's not like the church treats all these things with *seriousness* as they do with homosexuality... It's Christians being totally hypocritical, i can lie beside a christian and they'll just overlook it, but if i say beside a christian, i'm gay and have a boyfriend, they'll definitely give me the *attention* i deserve..

 

[Sweetbird]

Remember when they wouldn't let african americans into the church? god, it's embarassing.