What to do when atheiests attack you with questions and "proof"god dosent exist etc

[Reality]

Re: What to do when atheiests attack you with questions and "proof"god dosent exist e

So now you say the Bible was not inspired by God.

You either have no groundings for believe, or have no sense.
(Or a combination of the two.)

Show me ONE instance where complexity had no designer;
and I'll show you what you really believe.

I know the Bible is entirely man made (not divinely inspired) because every word written
in it could have been thought of by a human. It is limited to the ignorance and superstitious
ways of someone who was living in the Bronze Age.

Obviously, a god who can create the universe must be incredibly intelligent and complex.
However, this "god's" plan was to sacrifice himself unto himself to appease himself in order
to save all of humanity. In my opinion this is not the plan of a perfect god. It just screams
man made myth!

Christianity is actually a plagiarism of pagan religions that were around the same
area at the same time.

Once you have a better understanding of evolution by means of natural selection this world
makes a whole lot more sense.

Reality hath spoken!

 

[Reality]

Re: What to do when atheiests attack you with questions and "proof"god dosent exist e

No one.
That's why He's God.
God is the first cause.
Logically, every effect has a cause.
But the first cause has no cause or effect.
Logically, the first cause is the first cause.
And there are no causes to change it, (or 'effect' it).
Do you understand?
- The first cause doesn't have a cause,...... (logically it can't).

You have provided no evidence. What if the universe always existed?

 

[jimmydiggs]

Re: What to do when atheiests attack you with questions and "proof"god dosent exist e

You have provided no evidence. What if the universe always existed?

Heat death would have occured infintely long ago.

 

[Reality]

Re: What to do when atheiests attack you with questions and "proof"god dosent exist e

Heat death would have occured infintely long ago.

Our own sun will consume our planet in about 5 billion years. Some design, huh?

 

[RickShafer]

Re: What to do when atheiests attack you with questions and "proof"god dosent exist e

There is plenty of evidence for intelligent design.
I will look up some books regarding the statistical probabilities for intelligent design and pass them on to you.
As for the universe always existing,
'always' is a very long time.
In fact, 'always' is a time.
Who created time?
What does always mean????
I mean in the way you are using it?
Do you mean forever?
So you are saying the universe created itself?
This would be the first time in recorded history that an effect(the universe), was it's own cause.
Good questions though.
At least you are thinking, and not here to blaspheme.

 

[Reality]

Re: What to do when atheiests attack you with questions and "proof"god dosent exist e

"A Universe From Nothing" - Lawrence Krauss, Richard Dawkins - YouTube

You don't have to watch it but just know that there is science that supports a universe from nothing.

 

[jimmydiggs]

Re: What to do when atheiests attack you with questions and "proof"god dosent exist e

Our own sun will consume our planet in about 5 billion years. Some design, huh?

More than I would have ever come up with.

I think you are making a mistake though, if you are trying to critique Christian belief.

Sort of a knock out for the straw man, yes... but, that is all straw men are-- straw.

Scripture does not teach that the universe is perfect at the present.

Romans 8
18 I consider that our present sufferings are not worth comparing with the glory that will be revealed in us. 19 For the creation waits in eager expectation for the children of God to be revealed. 20 For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope 21 that[h] the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the freedom and glory of the children of God.
22We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time. 23 Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption to sonship, the redemption of our bodies. 24 For in this hope we were saved. But hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what they already have? 25 But if we hope for what we do not yet have, we wait for it patiently.

Genesis 3
17 To Adam he said, “Because you listened to your wife and ate fruit from the tree about which I commanded you, ‘You must not eat from it,’
Cursed is the ground because of you;
through painful toil you will eat food from it
all the days of your life.
18It will produce thorns and thistles for you,
and you will eat the plants of the field.
19 By the sweat of your brow
you will eat your food
until you return to the ground,
since from it you were taken;
for dust you are
and to dust you will return.”

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

Re: What to do when atheiests attack you with questions and "proof"god dosent exist e

According to the Bible, God is self-existent and eternal. Theologians refer to this trait as God’s attribute of aseity (Isaiah 40:13-14; John 5:26; Romans 11:34-35; Acts 17:25, etc...).

The God of the Bible reveals Himself to be an eternal and self-sufficient being without beginning or end who can interact inside and outside of this universe's dimension of time.

God is the logically necessary being that explains why all the contingent realities of the universe have actual existence.

Who made God? Nobody did. Nobody needed to and, in any event, nobody could.

If I concede that God designed the universe then who designed God?

 

[Reality]

Re: What to do when atheiests attack you with questions and "proof"god dosent exist e

I enjoyed reading Romans 8. I just have trouble believing it was written by someone who is more than a man.
Beautiful writing no doubt. Thanks for that.

 

[jimmydiggs]

Re: What to do when atheiests attack you with questions and "proof"god dosent exist e

I enjoyed reading Romans 8.

Romans is a wonderful book.

I just have trouble believing it was written by someone who is more than a man.

Well, if you are serious about this following quotation being your line of reasoning:

"I know the Bible is entirely man made (not divinely inspired) because every word written
in it could have been thought of by a human. It is limited to the ignorance and superstitious
ways of someone who was living in the Bronze Age. "

... then I ask that you be consistent in applying that.

Example, you have suggested that the universe could be an eternal entity. May I suggest, that on your presented line of reasoning, that the proposals of men such as Krauss and Hawkings that the universe is eternal, and the details involved are actually something else you know to be entirely man made (and thus false, or largely false) because every detail of the presented ideas could have been thought of by a human who was not at all concerned with the truth of the matter?

It's conceivable. So that means, that I'm right, right? Unless of course, the only way one could be right about anything is if you are a non-Christian and you're a twenty three year old male who goes by the forum username of "Reality", then in that case I must apologize myself for not having those qualities.

Beautiful writing no doubt.

Indeed.

Thanks for that.

My pleasure.

 

[RickShafer]

Re: What to do when atheiests attack you with questions and "proof"god dosent exist e

"A Universe From Nothing" - Lawrence Krauss, Richard Dawkins - YouTube

You don't have to watch it but just know that there is science that supports a universe from nothing.

It's hardly science is it?
These are philosophical views held by men.
No science at all.
At best what they put forth are mere hypotheses.
Again, with no dialectical sciece(see, hear, taste, prove) to back up their claims.
I will show you(if you stay), a statistical proof of the inability for life to spontaneously create itself.

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

Re: What to do when atheiests attack you with questions and "proof"god dosent exist e

Reality needs strong doses of history, philosophy, etc... to correct his many fallacies so he can start to align with reality. I'll get him started:

Scholarly fact #1: "Christianity, Christian revelation, Christian doctrine, and the New Testament is a unique revelation from God, not a product of nor in any way dependent on mystery pagan religions, Hellenism, or Gnosticism."

http://www.christianshelpingourworl...e-of-pagan-hellenistic-and-gnostic-syncretism

I know the Bible is entirely man made (not divinely inspired) because every word written
in it could have been thought of by a human. It is limited to the ignorance and superstitious
ways of someone who was living in the Bronze Age.

Obviously, a god who can create the universe must be incredibly intelligent and complex.
However, this "god's" plan was to sacrifice himself unto himself to appease himself in order
to save all of humanity. In my opinion this is not the plan of a perfect god. It just screams
man made myth!

Christianity is actually a plagiarism of pagan religions that were around the same
area at the same time.

Once you have a better understanding of evolution by means of natural selection this world
makes a whole lot more sense.

Reality hath spoken!

 

[Reality]

Re: What to do when atheiests attack you with questions and "proof"god dosent exist e

It's hardly science is it?
These are philosophical views held by men.
No science at all.
At best what they put forth are mere hypotheses.
Again, with no dialectical sciece(see, hear, taste, prove) to back up their claims.
I will show you(if you stay), a statistical proof of the inability for life to spontaneously create itself.

I am interested in the proof but just know that I do not believe
in a 6,000 year old earth. 4.5 billion years is a LONG time for life
to evolve. Our evolved brains play tricks on us sometimes by
making us wish things were so or pretending to know things
we don't.

 

[Reality]

Re: What to do when atheiests attack you with questions and "proof"god dosent exist e

Reality needs strong doses of history, philosophy, etc... to correct his many fallacies so he can start to align with reality. I'll get him started:

Scholarly fact #1: "Christianity, Christian revelation, Christian doctrine, and the New Testament is a unique revelation from God, not a product of nor in any way dependent on mystery pagan religions, Hellenism, or Gnosticism."

http://www.christianshelpingourworl...e-of-pagan-hellenistic-and-gnostic-syncretism

There are too many similarities between Christianity and pagan
religion to ignore. I can point them out if you're interested.

Your link is from a Christian website so there is obvious bias.
It is like reading "The Case for Christ" by Lee Stroebel. In his
book he only interviews Christian scholars. Why not here
the secular side of the story?

 

[jimmydiggs]

Re: What to do when atheiests attack you with questions and "proof"god dosent exist e

4.5 billion years is a LONG time for life
to evolve. Our evolved brains play tricks on us sometimes by
making us wish things were so or pretending to know things
we don't.

Only Christians and other religious people are susceptible.

 

[Reality]

Re: What to do when atheiests attack you with questions and "proof"god dosent exist e

Romans is a wonderful book.


Well, if you are serious about this following quotation being your line of reasoning:

"I know the Bible is entirely man made (not divinely inspired) because every word written
in it could have been thought of by a human. It is limited to the ignorance and superstitious
ways of someone who was living in the Bronze Age. "

... then I ask that you be consistent in applying that.

Example, you have suggested that the universe could be an eternal entity. May I suggest, that on your presented line of reasoning, that the proposals of men such as Krauss and Hawkings that the universe is eternal, and the details involved are actually something else you know to be entirely man made (and thus false, or largely false) because every detail of the presented ideas could have been thought of by a human who was not at all concerned with the truth of the matter?

It's conceivable. So that means, that I'm right, right? Unless of course, the only way one could be right about anything is if you are a non-Christian and you're a twenty three year old male who goes by the forum username of "Reality", then in that case I must apologize myself for not having those qualities.



Indeed.

My pleasure.

The one thing I'm after is the truth.

I find the Bible unconvincing as God's word because there is
no mention of things which a perfect all knowing being would
know. There is no mention of germs/bacteria. No mention of
the immensity of the universe or advanced mathematics. How
about instructions for how to build something way ahead of its
time, like a telescope? If the Bible floated in mid air when you
read from it then I might consider that evidence of a supernatural
sort.

 

[RickShafer]

Re: What to do when atheiests attack you with questions and "proof"god dosent exist e

I have to find a book I have that references a statistical study on how many atoms are in the known universe.
And what the probability is for anything even being possible to happen by chance. (Statisticians have found the number of impossibility.) It refutes the possibility of even the simplest cell happening by mere chance.
(Mind you, this is just one scientific yardstick,......there are many others)
Reality, I haven't forgotten about you; I just need to find the reference to the study. So I can list it for you.
Then you can research it and tell me if the scientist is all wet, or onto something.
But as far as the age of the earth goes, look into potassium-argon dating and how the amount of oxygen in the atmosphere affects the projections. A denser atmosphere (more oxygen, causes the degrading factor to be raised by powers - as in to the 2nd, 3rd, or even tenth.)
So instead of supposing the earths atmosphere always had the same amount of oxygen it has now, and calculating the dates linearly: like 10 x 2 = 20......with more oxygen in the atmosphere it becomes 10 to the second power equals 100.
Science is observation. Not supposition.
With more oxygen comes more growth. Ever see fossils?
There are fossils of common things like roaches and ferns that are much bigger than their largest modern day counterparts.
I'll get back with you in the following days with some evidence,....God bless you.

 

[Reality]

Re: What to do when atheiests attack you with questions and "proof"god dosent exist e

Ok thanks Rick. Do you believe in a young earth? I stumbled upon this website and there is much evidence pointing
to an old earth in this thread:

http://www.ex-christian.net/topic/50655-why-the-bible-claims-are-bs-creation-vs-evolution/

Also, can't we determine how long light takes to get to us from stars? Some of these are millions and billions of light years away.
But according to scripture the earth was created first, right? This is where I have a hard time because of the scientific conflicts.

 

[Red_Tory]

Re: What to do when atheiests attack you with questions and "proof"god dosent exist e

The one thing I'm after is the truth.

To what end?

 

[RickShafer]

Re: What to do when atheiests attack you with questions and "proof"god dosent exist e

Well, I know that death entered with sin.
I know that death didn't happen before the fall.
As far as the earth being made first, (before the universe, I don't think the Bible actually says that).
In the Hebrew language, the mechanism of saying the same thing more than once in a different way is common.
Just because it says and God created the heavens after it said He created the earth is simply a linguistic mechanism.
It's like if you were describing your honeymoon to someone.
And you said....."we had the most wonderful time,....we consummated our love for each other, and we visited Niagra falls".
Or if you bought a car......."I bought a chevy, I bought a GM."
And the next time you told someone - " I purchased a GM, I bought a Chevrolet."
As far as time estimates go, again it is measured against the way the physical universe is now.
Who knows how fast the universe was splayed out?
It is proven that black holes bend light. I wouldn't put my stock in a force that can be corralled by gravity.
Have you ever made anything?
Does it resemble the acts of fabricating it?
No.
Whatever you make went through a lot of permutations before it was finished.
Believe me, a car doesn't resemble a car when the metal is being smelted.
So it is if any other process of manufacturing.
I make guitars but none of them resemble a router, or a bandsaw, or a paint gun.