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I'm not a fundamentalist believer. I see the OT as a record of God and his people from the limited understanding of the people of the time. The bible says that God is love, and 1 Corinthians 13 defines what love is. Many of the acts described in the OT and attributed to God contradict that definition.
I don't wish to argue that point because we're not going to get far. What I will say is that a literal interpretation of the OT is a stumbling block to many people, quite understandably, and it need not be.
I don't wish to argue that point because we're not going to get far. What I will say is that a literal interpretation of the OT is a stumbling block to many people, quite understandably, and it need not be.
Wikipedia quote:
Marcionism was an Early Christian dualist belief system that originated in the teachings of Marcion of Sinope at Rome around the year 144[SUP][1][/SUP] (see also Christianity in the 2nd century).
Marcion believed Jesus Christ was the savior sent by God, and Paul of Tarsus was his chief apostle, but he rejected the Hebrew Bible and the God of Israel. Marcionists believed that the wrathful Hebrew God was a separate and lower entity than the all-forgiving God of the New Testament. This belief was in some ways similar to Gnostic Christian theology; notably, both are dualistic, that is, they posit opposing gods, forces, or principles: one higher, spiritual, and "good", and the other lower, material, and "evil" (compare Manichaeism), in contrast to the orthodox Christian view that "evil" has no independent existence, but is a privation or lack of "good",[SUP][2][/SUP] a view shared by the Jewish theologian Moses Maimonides.[SUP][3][/SUP]
Marcionism, similar to Gnosticism, depicted the Hebrew God of the Old Testament as a tyrant or demiurge (see also God as the Devil). Marcion was labeled a gnostic by Philip Schaff,[SUP][4][/SUP] while other scholars have rejected that categorization. Marcion's canon consisted of eleven books: A gospel consisting of ten sections from the Gospel of Luke edited by Marcion; and ten of Paul's epistles. All other epistles and gospels of the 27 book New Testament canon were rejected.[SUP][5][/SUP] Paul's epistles enjoy a prominent position in the Marcionite canon, since Paul is credited with correctly transmitting the universality of Jesus' message. Other authors' epistles were rejected since they seemed to suggest that Jesus had simply come to found a new sect within broader Judaism.[SUP][citation needed][/SUP] Religious tribalism of this sort seemed to echo Yahwism, and was thus regarded as a corruption of the "Heavenly Father"'s teaching.[SUP][citation needed][/SUP]
Marcionism was denounced by its opponents as heresy, and written against, notably by Tertullian, in a five-book treatise Adversus Marcionem, written about 208. Marcion's writings are lost, though they were widely read and numerous manuscripts must have existed. Even so, many scholars (including Henry Wace) claim it is possible to reconstruct and deduce a large part of ancient Marcionism through what later critics, especially Tertullian, said concerning Marcion.
[h=2][/h]
Marcionism was an Early Christian dualist belief system that originated in the teachings of Marcion of Sinope at Rome around the year 144[SUP][1][/SUP] (see also Christianity in the 2nd century).
Marcion believed Jesus Christ was the savior sent by God, and Paul of Tarsus was his chief apostle, but he rejected the Hebrew Bible and the God of Israel. Marcionists believed that the wrathful Hebrew God was a separate and lower entity than the all-forgiving God of the New Testament. This belief was in some ways similar to Gnostic Christian theology; notably, both are dualistic, that is, they posit opposing gods, forces, or principles: one higher, spiritual, and "good", and the other lower, material, and "evil" (compare Manichaeism), in contrast to the orthodox Christian view that "evil" has no independent existence, but is a privation or lack of "good",[SUP][2][/SUP] a view shared by the Jewish theologian Moses Maimonides.[SUP][3][/SUP]
Marcionism, similar to Gnosticism, depicted the Hebrew God of the Old Testament as a tyrant or demiurge (see also God as the Devil). Marcion was labeled a gnostic by Philip Schaff,[SUP][4][/SUP] while other scholars have rejected that categorization. Marcion's canon consisted of eleven books: A gospel consisting of ten sections from the Gospel of Luke edited by Marcion; and ten of Paul's epistles. All other epistles and gospels of the 27 book New Testament canon were rejected.[SUP][5][/SUP] Paul's epistles enjoy a prominent position in the Marcionite canon, since Paul is credited with correctly transmitting the universality of Jesus' message. Other authors' epistles were rejected since they seemed to suggest that Jesus had simply come to found a new sect within broader Judaism.[SUP][citation needed][/SUP] Religious tribalism of this sort seemed to echo Yahwism, and was thus regarded as a corruption of the "Heavenly Father"'s teaching.[SUP][citation needed][/SUP]
Marcionism was denounced by its opponents as heresy, and written against, notably by Tertullian, in a five-book treatise Adversus Marcionem, written about 208. Marcion's writings are lost, though they were widely read and numerous manuscripts must have existed. Even so, many scholars (including Henry Wace) claim it is possible to reconstruct and deduce a large part of ancient Marcionism through what later critics, especially Tertullian, said concerning Marcion.
[h=2][/h]
"The one who sins is the one who will die. The child will not share the guilt of the parent, nor will the parent share the guilt of the child. The righteousness of the righteous will be credited to them, and the wickedness of the wicked will be charged against them." Ezekiel 18:20
Each person is accountable for their own sins and God can reach anybody, anywhere. God would never punish children because of the wickedness of their forefathers.
Each person is accountable for their own sins and God can reach anybody, anywhere. God would never punish children because of the wickedness of their forefathers.
I don't believe that the bible is infallible. That quality belongs to God alone. The bible is the preeminent source of spiritual truth for Christians, but it also has errors. Once someone assumes that the bible contains no errors, I see that as form of bible worship. God is bigger than, and separate from, the bible.
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The idea that God has mellowed is obviously a human construct and although it is a nice idea Tintin if we look at the escalating violence in the world today we would have to draw the conclusion that God has failed and although I like the attempt to harmonize Judaism with Christianity it doesn't bear scrutiny.
If you read Psalm 82 you will see that the human judges and magistrates are called god, these along with the false gods are the gods of the Old Testament.)
1 God (god) standeth in the congregation of the mighty;
he judgeth among the gods. (Plural. There is only one God. These are human gods)
2 How long will ye judge unjustly,
and accept the persons of the wicked? (These magistrates and judges are Elohim or human gods)
Selah.
3 Defend the poor and fatherless:
do justice to the afflicted and needy.
4 Deliver the poor and needy:
rid them out of the hand of the wicked.
5 They know not, neither will they understand;
they walk on in darkness:
all the foundations of the earth are out of course. (These human god's are corrupt.)
6 I have said, Ye are gods; Joh. 10.34
and all of you are children of the Most High. (Son of God is a title given to the children of human rulers)
7 But ye shall die like men, (because they are men)
and fall like one of the princes.
8 Arise, O God, judge the earth:
for thou shalt inherit all nations. (The Psalmist pleads with the Almighty to intervene. This is my God, not the Elohim of the Old Testament.)
1 God (god) standeth in the congregation of the mighty;
he judgeth among the gods. (Plural. There is only one God. These are human gods)
2 How long will ye judge unjustly,
and accept the persons of the wicked? (These magistrates and judges are Elohim or human gods)
Selah.
3 Defend the poor and fatherless:
do justice to the afflicted and needy.
4 Deliver the poor and needy:
rid them out of the hand of the wicked.
5 They know not, neither will they understand;
they walk on in darkness:
all the foundations of the earth are out of course. (These human god's are corrupt.)
6 I have said, Ye are gods; Joh. 10.34
and all of you are children of the Most High. (Son of God is a title given to the children of human rulers)
7 But ye shall die like men, (because they are men)
and fall like one of the princes.
8 Arise, O God, judge the earth:
for thou shalt inherit all nations. (The Psalmist pleads with the Almighty to intervene. This is my God, not the Elohim of the Old Testament.)
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[h=3]Here we have some verses, ([tip] when ever it is said, it is written, it's always referred to the OT.) In them are a few similarities that prove God is God, both in the NT and OT.
Genesis 1:121st Century King James Version (KJ21)
1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
John 1:1-221st Century King James Version (KJ21)
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]The same was in the beginning with God
Deuteronomy 32:35-36[/h]21st Century King James Version (KJ21)
[SUP]35 [/SUP]To Me belongeth vengeance and recompense; their foot shall slide in due time; for the day of their calamity is at hand, and the things that shall come upon them make haste.’
[SUP]36 [/SUP]“For the Lord shall judge His people and repent for His servants, when He seeth that their power is gone and there is none shut up or left.
[h=3]Romans 12:19[/h]21st Century King James Version (KJ21)
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath; for it is written: “Vengeance is Mine; I will repay,saith the Lord.”
[h=3].[/h]
Genesis 1:121st Century King James Version (KJ21)
1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
John 1:1-221st Century King James Version (KJ21)
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]The same was in the beginning with God
Deuteronomy 32:35-36[/h]21st Century King James Version (KJ21)
[SUP]35 [/SUP]To Me belongeth vengeance and recompense; their foot shall slide in due time; for the day of their calamity is at hand, and the things that shall come upon them make haste.’
[SUP]36 [/SUP]“For the Lord shall judge His people and repent for His servants, when He seeth that their power is gone and there is none shut up or left.
[h=3]Romans 12:19[/h]21st Century King James Version (KJ21)
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath; for it is written: “Vengeance is Mine; I will repay,saith the Lord.”
[h=3].[/h]
If you are talking to me then I know perfectly well that the God of the New Testament is the God of the Old Testament.
What I am saying is that the Israelites often followed another god.
The reason I say that is because Jehovah gave us the Ten Commandments, one of which says not to kill (or murder whichever you prefer) while on the other hand god told the Israelites to kill people in their thousands.
We know the Israelites followed false gods and we know these gods were surrounded by their own priests and prophets (soothsayers), so my question to you is this, when the Israelites went on their murderous activities was it in accordance with Jehovah or was it Elohim who was giving out the orders, especially bearing in mind the texts you posted one of which says not for us to take vengeance or give place to wrath, but to leave it to the Lord. In other words, "DO NOT KILL" so whose orders were the Israelites following, Jehovah or someone else?
19 Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath; for it is written: “Vengeance is Mine; I will repay,saith the Lord.”
What I am saying is that the Israelites often followed another god.
The reason I say that is because Jehovah gave us the Ten Commandments, one of which says not to kill (or murder whichever you prefer) while on the other hand god told the Israelites to kill people in their thousands.
We know the Israelites followed false gods and we know these gods were surrounded by their own priests and prophets (soothsayers), so my question to you is this, when the Israelites went on their murderous activities was it in accordance with Jehovah or was it Elohim who was giving out the orders, especially bearing in mind the texts you posted one of which says not for us to take vengeance or give place to wrath, but to leave it to the Lord. In other words, "DO NOT KILL" so whose orders were the Israelites following, Jehovah or someone else?
19 Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath; for it is written: “Vengeance is Mine; I will repay,saith the Lord.”
I wasn't quite talking to you, but I will address your question, I believe God commanded those who were guilty to be punished justly, and that God himself punished various ways, the flood, causing fire to come and burn them up, either way cutting off the dead and useless branches, and if He had land for them to conquer of course he led armies of His people to cease the land. In context we see it was just, simply posting a verse about killing children would not benefit in the least of ways, because we aren't God, neither can we understand His ways. Any time you see the upper case, i.e. Lord, God, etc., this is the True God.