the god of the old testament is not the god we know in jesuse

[rollson]

Thelordiscoming, you are trying to puts words in my mouth and twist them. If seems like you are saying I could go and kill my son if it wasnt going to turn out the way he wanted? Its my.creatiom so that justifies it does it? Im trying to understand it rather then saying ohhh the bible says it so its true and okay. Not all christian have the same views on the bible because the way it is put togather.

 

[Maranatha-TheLordIsComing]

yeh, right... go respond to the 85 other posts you bypassed.

 

[TheAristocat]

The things that god was killing people for then are still goin on today.

2 Chronicles 36:21 The land enjoyed its sabbath rests; all the time of its desolation it rested, until the seventy years were completed in fulfillment of the word of the LORD spoken by Jeremiah.

Every seven years Israel was supposed to let the land lie fallow and rest for an entire seventh year. This passage represents a period of 490 years in which Israel ignored that regulation of God's. So Israel was eventually sent into exile for 70 years.

Just because God allows certain sins to go on for a period of time doesn't mean it will always be that way. God has not changed. He blesses those who follow him. He punishes/disciplines those who don't. So is there no passage in the Old Testament which has shown you that God is the same? Not blessing Ruth - a Moabite? Not saving Rahab - a prostitute? Not the law of equal treatment of foreigners? Not God accepting Israel back as Hosea accepted his unfaithful wife back? Not the laws regarding love of one's enemies and love of one's neighbor? Not the concept of sacrifice? Not forgiveness of one's sins? Not justice? Deliverance from slavery? I really don't think the two are as different as you believe. If you haven't read the entire Bible I'd encourage you to study it. I'm sorry, but I don't think you or anyone else has the right to tell God what he should do with his own creation any more than you'd have a right to tell someone they're doing something wrong by making a piece of pottery or destroying another that they've made. Besides, I don't think he created us just to destroy us.

Jeremiah 18:6 Can I not do with you, O house of Israel, just as this potter has done? says the Lord. Just like the clay in the potter’s hand, so are you in my hand, O house of Israel.

I recognize that we're not pottery, but we're also not on the same level as God. I don't think it's a question of power or state of being. I think it's that power and state of being that brings discretion, wisdom and omniscience so that God knows what is best. We wouldn't get all upset when a potter broke his own jar and started remaking it, because we're intelligent enough to understand what he's doing. I think God should be given a little credit for creating the universe when we can't even understand how it all works just yet. It would be like a piece of clay, which doesn't even understand what clay is or how a jar is formed or should look like, criticizing the potter for destroying and remaking it. It's not that God is so much more powerful, so that he has a right to do something or another. It's that he knows what he's doing, whereas we just get all mad at it even though we don't even understand ourselves.

 

[Sose]

people don't realize the first thing GOD want from us is to fear HIM, proverbs 1;7
The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.

if we continue to keep sinning and dont want to stop and have no plans on changing he will wipe us out.

 

[Sose]

theres a differents between with the LORD "im trying to not sinn and work on it .as like a little child grow up who first starts to get to know GOD. GOD can work with us if were willing to work with Him as in for trial and error as little kid learning whats wrong and right to learn and do .

but this test, were in, is do we love GOD forever or do we never want to love GOD. who would you categorize this type of person as , he continuely sin and has no intentions of changing, after many time told of GOD word but he didnt want any thing to do with GOD.

what does it matter if GOD see his future and see him still never wanting to love him when he's 100 years old and die of old age
than if he 30 year old and never plans on quiting sin or not doing the little he knows that he was told is sin and the consquence of it and GOD wipe him out. this is why we should fear GOD cause this is why GODS always right in wiping there asses out thoughs who never plan on loving him today or never plan so, in a 100 years later. a better way to ssay it " i never plan on loving you now or never. kind of people.

in proverb the beging of wisdom is the fear of the LORD.

,to want to know, how and why is this sin, not loving you GOD, they dont care, on how to love GOD , GOD could dissapear for all they care, cause they never plan on ever stoping ,he love his life style .

theres a difference between trying to love GOD and never trying to work on ever loving GOD.
I would be afraid cause thoughs people you mention in your threads on the old testament are thoughs type of people.
IV ponder all the question my self that why I had to try to understand them in seeking GODs word

proverbs 1;20-33 that describes what im sharing from GODS word

 

[Sose]

[h=2]

Re: the god of the old testament is not the god we know in jesuse[/h]

theres a differents between with the LORD "im trying to not sinn and work on it .as like a little child grow up who first starts to get to know GOD. GOD can work with us if were willing to work with Him as in for trial and error as little kid learning whats wrong and right to learn and do .

but this test, were in, is do we love GOD forever or do we never want to love GOD. who would you categorize this type of person as , he continuely sin and has no intentions of changing, after many time told of GOD word but he didnt want any thing to do with GOD.

what does it matter if GOD see his future and see him still never wanting to love him when he's 100 years old and die of old age
than if he 30 year old and never plans on quiting sin or not doing the little he knows that he was told is sin and the consquence of it and GOD wipe him out. this is why we should fear GOD cause this is why GODS always right in wiping there asses out thoughs who never plan on loving him today or never plan so, in a 100 years later. a better way to ssay it " i never plan on loving you now or never. kind of people.

in proverb the beging of wisdom is the fear of the LORD.

,to want to know, how and why is this sin, not loving you GOD, they dont care, on how to love GOD , GOD could dissapear for all they care, cause they never plan on ever stoping ,he love his life style .

theres a difference between trying to love GOD and never trying to work on ever loving GOD.
I would be afraid cause thoughs people you mention in your threads on the old testament are thoughs type of people.
IV ponder all the question my self that why I had to try to understand them in seeking GODs word

proverbs 1;20-33 that describes what im sharing from GODS word​

 

[Bookreader]

I didn't see your post or I would have responded directly, sorry.

Before Jesus and Christianity the world was pagan. Everything that was done was done in the name of god. The terrible German dictator did what he did to the Jews in World War Two in the name of God, but his was a pagan God.

This is why we need to rightly divide scripture. We all need to try and not confuse the Christian God with the pagan deities.

Thanks.

Are you saying the God of David and Samuel and Moses and Jacob and Abraham is not the Christian God?

 

[Tintin]

True but this 'fear' isn't one of condemnation - "oh my gosh, if I do this God will strike me down with a lightning bolt!"
Fear = Reverant awe for the one who made you and sustains you. Being humble before God; realising you're very human and God is the definition of holy.

people don't realize the first thing GOD want from us is to fear HIM, proverbs 1;7
The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.

if we continue to keep sinning and dont want to stop and have no plans on changing he will wipe us out.

 

[PS]

Are you saying the God of David and Samuel and Moses and Jacob and Abraham is not the Christian God?

There is only one God who created the heavens and the earth and he is Jesus.

What I was saying is that before Jesus and Christianity the world was pagan as we can see from the Greek, Roman and Egyptian gods for example.

The reason we celebrate the birth of Jesus in December was to eradicate paganism and replace it with Christianity. Even the Israelites worshipped pagan Babylonian and Egyptian gods which they will have learned about while in captivity. The Golden Calf is an example of their paganism.

But to answer your question David, Samuel, Moses, Jacob and Abraham worshipped Jehovah.

 

[homwardbound]

Thelordiscoming, you are trying to puts words in my mouth and twist them. If seems like you are saying I could go and kill my son if it wasnt going to turn out the way he wanted? Its my.creatiom so that justifies it does it? Im trying to understand it rather then saying ohhh the bible says it so its true and okay. Not all christian have the same views on the bible because the way it is put togather.

No one either believes in God puts their Faith (trust) in God and learns truth from God and is freed to Love as God does Love and always has to those that believe and always willto those that believe.
Or one does not believe and remains under the deserving wrath that all deserve. the ones that beleive are freed to Love their neighbor as themselves or better than that as Christ by the Cross has shown his Love for all even though we all have deserved to be destroyed, because we all have been selfish and in that process hurt others.
This is what the Gospel is about brother the true Love of God for all.

 

[homwardbound]

True but this 'fear' isn't one of condemnation - "oh my gosh, if I do this God will strike me down with a lightning bolt!"
Fear = Reverant awe for the one who made you and sustains you. Being humble before God; realising you're very human and God is the definition of holy.

And then in the seeking to know this amazing God we recieve perfect Love by the cross and all fear is cast out

 

[Deadtosin]

Just remember there is no new testament without the old. The old literally has 333 prophecies foretelling Jesus Christ. It is a package deal

 

[Bookreader]

There is only one God who created the heavens and the earth and he is Jesus.

What I was saying is that before Jesus and Christianity the world was pagan as we can see from the Greek, Roman and Egyptian gods for example.

The reason we celebrate the birth of Jesus in December was to eradicate paganism and replace it with Christianity. Even the Israelites worshipped pagan Babylonian and Egyptian gods which they will have learned about while in captivity. The Golden Calf is an example of their paganism.

But to answer your question David, Samuel, Moses, Jacob and Abraham worshipped Jehovah.

So your comment that before Christianity all was paganism is incorrect. YHWH was worshiped before the birth of Jesus - so all was not pagan gods.

And you say that before Christ the world was pagan. It is pretty much pagan now. It has always been mostly pagan.
But the birth or death of Jesus did not, and have not, changed that.

Those who did the golden calf thing were run through and removed from the tribes weren't they. So that means perhaps that many did not follow the pagan ideas. They certainly changed afterwards though they were often a stiff-necked people.
btw - it is debatable that perhaps their crime was idolatry rather than following other gods. The golden calf perhaps was their erroneous statue of their God

Exo 32:4 And he received the gold from their hand, and he fashioned it with an engraving tool, and made a molded calf. Then they said, "This is your god, O Israel, that brought you out of the land of Egypt!"
Exo 32:5 So when Aaron saw it, he built an altar before it. And Aaron made a proclamation and said, "Tomorrow is a feast to the LORD."

I'm not sure where I stand on that idea tbh. Either way they did wrong, of course. And many paid for it with their lives.


I'll not discuss the other digressions I disagree with in your reply- this is not the place

 

[PS]

So your comment that before Christianity all was paganism is incorrect. YHWH was worshiped before the birth of Jesus - so all was not pagan gods.

And you say that before Christ the world was pagan. It is pretty much pagan now. It has always been mostly pagan.
But the birth or death of Jesus did not, and have not, changed that.

Those who did the golden calf thing were run through and removed from the tribes weren't they. So that means perhaps that many did not follow the pagan ideas. They certainly changed afterwards though they were often a stiff-necked people.
btw - it is debatable that perhaps their crime was idolatry rather than following other gods. The golden calf perhaps was their erroneous statue of their God

I'm not sure where I stand on that idea tbh. Either way they did wrong, of course. And many paid for it with their lives.


I'll not discuss the other digressions I disagree with in your reply- this is not the place

The message of Jesus caused many to convert from paganism to Christianity but you are right to say this is not the place to discuss the origin of YHWH.

 

[Ariel82]

I haven't read any of the other response. Just wanted to say Hi Craig.

You have to remember that death is not the end. God gathers all babies to Him.

okay my name is craig, iv been a christian for a year our 2 now and like most i had my ups and downs but the other night i was talking with a close friend and was telling him the love that god as for him, then he started to go into the god of the old testament and its not the god that i know and love. i mean for a year now i told all my family and friends that the bible is gods word. i used to belive that. but if the bible is god words then why as the old testament got such evil in it? i will show you a list of what my friend was reading out and would love some feed back it. i still love jesus but i dont know what to think of the old testament.

1. God drowns the whole earth.
In Genesis 7:21-23, God drowns the entire population of the earth: men, women, children, fetuses, and perhaps unicorns. Only a single family survives. In Matthew 24:37-42, gentle Jesus approves of this genocide and plans to repeat it when he returns.
2. God kills half a million people.
In 2 Chronicles 13:15-18, God helps the men of Judah kill 500,000 of their fellow Israelites.
3. God slaughters all Egyptian firstborn.
In Exodus 12:29, God the baby-killer slaughters all Egyptian firstborn children and cattle because their king was stubborn.
4. God kills 14,000 people for complaining that God keeps killing them.
In Numbers 16:41-49, the Israelites complain that God is killing too many of them. So, God sends a plague that kills 14,000 more of them.
5. Genocide after genocide after genocide.
In Joshua 6:20-21, God helps the Israelites destroy Jericho, killing “men and women, young and old, cattle, sheep and donkeys.” In Deuteronomy 2:32-35, God has the Israelites kill everyone in Heshbon, including children. In Deuteronomy 3:3-7, God has the Israelites do the same to the people of Bashan. In Numbers 31:7-18, the Israelites kill all the Midianites except for the virgins, whom they take as spoils of war. In 1 Samuel 15:1-9, God tells the Israelites to kill all the Amalekites – men, women, children, infants, and their cattle – for something the Amalekites’ ancestors had done 400 years earlier.
6. God kills 50,000 people for curiosity.
In 1 Samuel 6:19, God kills 50,000 men for peeking into the ark of the covenant. (Newer cosmetic translations count only 70 deaths, but their text notes admit that the best and earliest manuscripts put the number at 50,070.)
7. 3,000 Israelites killed for inventing a god.
In Exodus 32, Moses has climbed Mount Sinai to get the Ten Commandments. The Israelites are bored, so they invent a golden calf god. Moses comes back and God commands him: “Each man strap a sword to his side. Go back and forth through the camp from one end to the other, each killing his brother and friend and neighbor.” About 3,000 people died.
8. The Amorites destroyed by sword and by God’s rocks.
In Joshua 10:10-11, God helps the Israelites slaughter the Amorites by sword, then finishes them off with rocks from the sky.
9. God burns two cities to death.
In Genesis 19:24, God kills everyone in Sodom and Gomorrah with fire from the sky. Then God kills Lot’s wife for looking back at her burning home.
10. God has 42 children mauled by bears.
In 2 Kings 2:23-24, some kids tease the prophet Elisha, and God sends bears to dismember them. (Newer cosmetic translations say the bears “maul” the children, but the original Hebrew, baqa, means “to tear apart.”)
11. A tribe slaughtered and their virgins raped for not showing up at roll call.
In Judges 21:1-23, a tribe of Israelites misses roll call, so the other Israelites kill them all except for the virgins, which they take for themselves. Still not happy, they hide in vineyards and pounce on dancing women from Shiloh to take them for themselves.

now you know that God condemned this action and the other can be address if read in context. There are worst things in life than death.

12. 3,000 crushed to death.
In Judges 16:27-30, God gives Samson strength to bring down a building to crush 3,000 members of a rival tribe.
13. A concubine raped and dismembered.
In Judges 19:22-29, a mob demands to rape a godly master’s guest. The master offers his daughter and a concubine to them instead. They take the concubine and gang-rape her all night. The master finds her on his doorstep in the morning, cuts her into 12 pieces, and ships the pieces around the country.

which in turns causes enough outrage to bring justice against those who committed the crime. also during the time of judges is when many turned from God and did not listen to Him at all.

14. Child sacrifice.
In Judges 11:30-39, Jephthah burns his daughter alive as a sacrificial offering for God’s favor in killing the Ammonites.

He doesn't burn his daughter. He places her in service to God, never to marry and have children... you notice it says they bemoan her virginity, not her death.

15. God helps Samson kill 30 men because he lost a bet.
In Judges 14:11-19, Samson loses a bet for 30 sets of clothes. The spirit of God comes upon him and he kills 30 men to steal their clothes and pay off the debt.

judgement upon those people for their evil deeds... have you read the whole story?

16. God demands you kill your wife and children for worshiping other gods.
In Deuteronomy 13:6-10, God commands that you must kill your wife, children, brother, and friend if they worship other gods.
17. God incinerates 51 men to make a point.
In 2 Kings 1:9-10, Elijah gets God to burn 51 men with fire from heaven to prove he is God.
18. God kills a man for not impregnating his brother’s widow.
In Genesis 38:9-10, God kills a man for refusing to impregnate his brother’s widow.
19. God threatens forced cannibalism.
In Leviticus 26:27-29 and Jeremiah 19:9, God threatens to punish the Israelites by making them eat their own children.
20. The coming slaughter.
According to Revelation 9:7-19, God’s got more evil coming. God will make horse-like locusts with human heads and scorpion tails, who torture people for 5 months. Then some angels will kill a third of the earth’s population. If he came today, that would be 2 billion people.


i trust in the new testament and got faith in jesus from my prayers but i really dont know how to deal with this. i dont want some half answer. if the bible is got words what the heck is with the evil nature of how he was, god is not ment to change but if you look at him in the new testament he as changed more then any one i know

did you get all these from an atheist website?

sorry I don't even have a half answer to give you but if you want to study the Bible and discuss it, then there are people willing to do so with you. Its hard to answer all these because it requires you understand the whole context of what is happening and why.

 

[rollson]

i wanted to make the post to over come some stuff i was going throw, i was in shock when i 1st found that list and came on here looking for answers. i planed on reading throw 1 by 1. i now know god is the same as in the OT and NT, its just that in the NT you dont see the other side to god you just see the love. god is the same in both i understand that now. can anyone point in to where i can find out more about the OT and how that came to be and some cool info that world make me enjoy reading it again. i still find it hard reading it because some of the things that was going on and the things they did. thank all of you for your help. god bless

 

[annointedshepherd]

Ok check this awnser out its simple Jesus is God the Holy Spirit is God the Father is God and any decision made from any of them they are all always in agreement with each other so therefore we need to keep in mind that they always will be in agreement on ones decision because they are in unity

 

[Ariel82]

you could join us in reading again this year if you like and discuss it. I started a few threads

I'll send you a pm link to them. I found that listening to it on my MP3 player easier than reading it sometimes.

God reveals to us the shadows and types the OT is meant to tell us. I told someone once that the OT is written in parables and stories that people didn't understand but showed that God had a plan for the world and revealed to those who paid attention what would happen according to God's divine plan.

For example the Seed of Eve refers to Christ in Genesis 3 and shows that God intended all along to send Jesus to save His people.

Anyway the best way is to study God's truth so that people can't shake your faith in God's goodness and love. Justice and judgement is part of that love, because allowing criminals to continue to oppress and abuse others would be wrong and unjust.

Criminals will often justify their own sins but most people will recognize that child prositution is wrong. However men who practice it will find some twisted reason it is their "right." then you have people who will buy organs on the black market to live longer.

Life in the OT times is not like life now. Even in Jesus time I was told that Pontius Pilate placed on pikes and set on fire Pharisees along the walk way to "welcome" Saducees to his palace.

Something that would cause global outcry now was thought to be entertainment now. Look at how people were feed to lions, human sacrifice, etc.

Depravities of men and demonic influences upon the world of people turned away from God's love and light. Compassion, forgiveness, love are foreign concepts to many.

I'll have to look at the passage in more detail to be able to answer but when I get a chance, I'll try. just pm if i forget

God bless and keep you.

 

[Justin1001]

How do you know that part of the bible you believe also is not in error?
How do we know your statement above is not in error?

How do I know the bible has errors? It's obvious to anyone who wants the truth. Would it really rock your faith if you found an error in the bible?

As to errors in my bible interpretation: I have no doubts that my beliefs aren't entirely correct. It's called faith for a reason, it's not a science.

 

[Justin1001]

PS,
How do you explain your 'god' theory when it was Jehovah that told Saul to wipe out completely the Amalekites? And deposed Saul for failing to do so?

1 Samuel 15:1-3 And Samuel said unto Saul, Jehovah sent me to anoint thee to be king over his people, over Israel: now therefore hearken thou unto the voice of the words of Jehovah.Thus saith Jehovah of hosts, I have marked that which Amalek did to Israel, how he set himself against him in the way, when he came up out of Egypt.
Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.

How do I explain it? Easily. The bible is a gradual revelation of God's character from the limited understanding of what for the most part were ignorant people, not a direct dictation of words from God. God never ordered children be destroyed.

Once you accept belief in a god that kills children, you're in deep on the wrong path IMO.