Living A Life Free Of Sin
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Haz breaks it down pretty well. For me, believers must understand the difference between the spirit and the flesh. Although every believer will absolutely, positively sin (thought, word, deed, anything not of faith = doubt, fear, anxiety etc) in some way, sin is not imputed to the believer. Furthermore, the entire basis for our justification (declared righteousness) is dependent on whether we accept the truth that our sin has been paid for, forgiven, forgotten and never to be imputed to us again... Justification by faith.
The answer lies in the Gospel/Good news itself. Understand how we are reconciled to God and you will know how we are saved and made pure.
So first step, How are we reconciled?
In order to grasp this we need to understand a couple of things about who we are.
Isa 64:6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.
This means that all the good things we do are not good enough. even if they are spawned from our love for Jesus. Our love is always tainted with selfishness. Thus our good works can not save us because they are not pure.
Jer 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
We can not trust our own thoughts, they are wicked and deceitful Thus we may think we are good but the word of God tells us above that our good works are filthy rags.
Thus we are unable to save ourselves. So how does God reconcile us to himself?
Rom 5:6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.
Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
Rom 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
These four verses tell us that Jesus died for us while we were: Weak, ungodly, sinners and enemies of God and thus through His death on the cross we are reconciled.
This is the first step of salvation to be reconciled or to bridge the gap that sin has made. before our sins separated us from God.
Isa 59:2 But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.
but now through the death of Jesus we are reconciled to our heavenly Father.
So first point, We did nothing in fact we could not do anything even if we tried to reconcile ourselves to God. Thus Christ did this for us. now notice that it does not end there.
notice verse 9 and 10,
Rom 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
Rom 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
These two verses have two stages 10 repeats 9 in different words.
stage 1 from verse 9, Justified/declared right, by His blood. this matches stage 1 in verse 10, Reconciled by Jesus death.
So we are declared right and reconciled to God through the blood and death of Jesus. so what next.
Stage 2 verse 9, saved from wrath through Him, stage 2 verse 10, saved by His life.
So we are saved from wrath by His life.
Paul outlines two necessities of salvation The cross does not save but rather reconcile us to God, it is the life of Jesus that saves. what is this life?
Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Rom 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Notice that Paul makes it clear that If we die "with him" in other words accept His death and lose our own life. then we will walk in a newness of life through him being raised. verse 5 clarifies this as the resurrected life of Jesus we receive. Praise God.
Paul is saying that we receive the life of Jesus in us, the life after the resurrection. Paul said it like this else where.
Gal 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
Paul understood that One had to die in order to have the victorious life of Jesus living in us.
Jesus put it like this.
Joh 12:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.
Joh 12:25 He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.
We can not receive the life Of Jesus in us until we give up our life. God will not sit on the throne of our hearts until we get of that throne. self must die so that Christ can live. now if Jesus live in us then will Jesus sin?
Thus if I continue to sin then I must not be letting Jesus live in me. There must be some part of me that still lives.
listen to Romans 5 again and notice the two gifts.
Rom 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
Rom 5:2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
Notice that we are justified/declared right, by "Faith" so then we by faith are reconciled to God through Jesus. notice what comes next.
verse 2 says by this same Faith/believing Gods word, we have access to Gods grace. So again not by works. Many today receive the gift of Jesus death on their behalf by faith. however they often do not crucify self with Christ. this is why Christ does not live in them.
The gift of Jesus life is also by Faith. but we can only have it if we die with Christ first. Remember Jesus death reconciles us to God. but our righteousness and our hearts are still faulty, that is why Jesus did this for us while still sinners. the only way to have true sinlessness is to be dead and for Christ to live, He is the only one who can live a sinless life. thus it has to be Christ in you the hope of Glory.
Gift of His death plus Gift of His life = sinlessness.
Paul illustrated this point in Romans 7
Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
Rom 7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
Rom 7:16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
Rom 7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
Rom 7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
Rom 7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
Notice that this person understands the claims of the law. Paul's point in the beginning of this chapter is that there needs to be a death first in order to be free from the law. Then above he illistrates the person who has come to the cross yet has not died to self and thus is still enslaved to sin. This person has not yet received the life of Christ by which we are saved and freed from sin.
Thus the cry "O wretched man that I am!" We must come to that place where we see the true nature we have and understand that it is wretched. it is then that we will see the gift of God and proclaim that in our flesh dwelleth no good thing.
Thus Romans 8 is the reception of the life of Christ.
Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Through the Spirit we are freed from walking after the flesh. And thus the law is fulfilled in us because by the Spirit Christ dwells in us.
Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
notice this next verse.
Eph 3:16 That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man;
Eph 3:17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,
notice that when the Spirit comes in which we receive by Faith then the life Of Christ dwells in our hearts by Faith.
Its that simple. two gifts for the taking.
Jesus death by Faith reconciles us to God.
Jesus life by Faith Saves us.
Jesus said these words.
Joh 8:34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
Joh 8:35 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.
Joh 8:36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.
Its not about trying harder its about accepting the Gift of Jesus death and life.
If you find you are still stuck in sin then ask yourself. have I given up my life? Have I accepted Jesus in my stead and died with Him? or am I still living? without our death there can be no new birth.
Then have I asked and do I claim by Faith the Holy Spirit in which I Receive the life of Christ?
notice these words of Jesus.
Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Notice we must be born of both "water and SPirit" not one or the other but both. Water is baptism which is the reception of the death of Jesus in which we die with Him by faith.
The Spirit brings the life of Christ into the believer.
Did you die with Christ?
Are you alive with Christ?
Do you believe?
This is the good news. you can have victory but only by Faith not by works. works are a result of the life of Christ in you. Hope this makes sense blessings.
So first step, How are we reconciled?
In order to grasp this we need to understand a couple of things about who we are.
Isa 64:6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.
This means that all the good things we do are not good enough. even if they are spawned from our love for Jesus. Our love is always tainted with selfishness. Thus our good works can not save us because they are not pure.
Jer 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
We can not trust our own thoughts, they are wicked and deceitful Thus we may think we are good but the word of God tells us above that our good works are filthy rags.
Thus we are unable to save ourselves. So how does God reconcile us to himself?
Rom 5:6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.
Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
Rom 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
These four verses tell us that Jesus died for us while we were: Weak, ungodly, sinners and enemies of God and thus through His death on the cross we are reconciled.
This is the first step of salvation to be reconciled or to bridge the gap that sin has made. before our sins separated us from God.
Isa 59:2 But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.
but now through the death of Jesus we are reconciled to our heavenly Father.
So first point, We did nothing in fact we could not do anything even if we tried to reconcile ourselves to God. Thus Christ did this for us. now notice that it does not end there.
notice verse 9 and 10,
Rom 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
Rom 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
These two verses have two stages 10 repeats 9 in different words.
stage 1 from verse 9, Justified/declared right, by His blood. this matches stage 1 in verse 10, Reconciled by Jesus death.
So we are declared right and reconciled to God through the blood and death of Jesus. so what next.
Stage 2 verse 9, saved from wrath through Him, stage 2 verse 10, saved by His life.
So we are saved from wrath by His life.
Paul outlines two necessities of salvation The cross does not save but rather reconcile us to God, it is the life of Jesus that saves. what is this life?
Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Rom 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Notice that Paul makes it clear that If we die "with him" in other words accept His death and lose our own life. then we will walk in a newness of life through him being raised. verse 5 clarifies this as the resurrected life of Jesus we receive. Praise God.
Paul is saying that we receive the life of Jesus in us, the life after the resurrection. Paul said it like this else where.
Gal 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
Paul understood that One had to die in order to have the victorious life of Jesus living in us.
Jesus put it like this.
Joh 12:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.
Joh 12:25 He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.
We can not receive the life Of Jesus in us until we give up our life. God will not sit on the throne of our hearts until we get of that throne. self must die so that Christ can live. now if Jesus live in us then will Jesus sin?
Thus if I continue to sin then I must not be letting Jesus live in me. There must be some part of me that still lives.
listen to Romans 5 again and notice the two gifts.
Rom 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
Rom 5:2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
Notice that we are justified/declared right, by "Faith" so then we by faith are reconciled to God through Jesus. notice what comes next.
verse 2 says by this same Faith/believing Gods word, we have access to Gods grace. So again not by works. Many today receive the gift of Jesus death on their behalf by faith. however they often do not crucify self with Christ. this is why Christ does not live in them.
The gift of Jesus life is also by Faith. but we can only have it if we die with Christ first. Remember Jesus death reconciles us to God. but our righteousness and our hearts are still faulty, that is why Jesus did this for us while still sinners. the only way to have true sinlessness is to be dead and for Christ to live, He is the only one who can live a sinless life. thus it has to be Christ in you the hope of Glory.
Gift of His death plus Gift of His life = sinlessness.
Paul illustrated this point in Romans 7
Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
Rom 7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
Rom 7:16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
Rom 7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
Rom 7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
Rom 7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
Notice that this person understands the claims of the law. Paul's point in the beginning of this chapter is that there needs to be a death first in order to be free from the law. Then above he illistrates the person who has come to the cross yet has not died to self and thus is still enslaved to sin. This person has not yet received the life of Christ by which we are saved and freed from sin.
Thus the cry "O wretched man that I am!" We must come to that place where we see the true nature we have and understand that it is wretched. it is then that we will see the gift of God and proclaim that in our flesh dwelleth no good thing.
Thus Romans 8 is the reception of the life of Christ.
Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Through the Spirit we are freed from walking after the flesh. And thus the law is fulfilled in us because by the Spirit Christ dwells in us.
Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
notice this next verse.
Eph 3:16 That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man;
Eph 3:17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,
notice that when the Spirit comes in which we receive by Faith then the life Of Christ dwells in our hearts by Faith.
Its that simple. two gifts for the taking.
Jesus death by Faith reconciles us to God.
Jesus life by Faith Saves us.
Jesus said these words.
Joh 8:34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
Joh 8:35 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.
Joh 8:36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.
Its not about trying harder its about accepting the Gift of Jesus death and life.
If you find you are still stuck in sin then ask yourself. have I given up my life? Have I accepted Jesus in my stead and died with Him? or am I still living? without our death there can be no new birth.
Then have I asked and do I claim by Faith the Holy Spirit in which I Receive the life of Christ?
notice these words of Jesus.
Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Notice we must be born of both "water and SPirit" not one or the other but both. Water is baptism which is the reception of the death of Jesus in which we die with Him by faith.
The Spirit brings the life of Christ into the believer.
Did you die with Christ?
Are you alive with Christ?
Do you believe?
This is the good news. you can have victory but only by Faith not by works. works are a result of the life of Christ in you. Hope this makes sense blessings.
OK gotime, now put that into a practical example showing how to apply all you said in our lives. Until you do that it is just many words to the minds of most people.
Click on this link for a practical example of what I am speaking about: http://christianchat.com/christian-family-forum/62719-how-do-u-deal-abuse.html#post1002008
Click on this link for a practical example of what I am speaking about: http://christianchat.com/christian-family-forum/62719-how-do-u-deal-abuse.html#post1002008
Justamazed, I share your passion to help those who have so much less than we do. I heard in church today, if you have clean water, shelter and access to a computer, you have more than 97% of the people of the world.
BUT, even if we built homes and sheltered every single person in the world, and fed every single person (an honourable goal!) it does not begin to address the question of sin - nor does it present the gospel.
The goal of being a Christian is to spread the good news that Jesus died for our sins. Sometimes, we are able to share the riches that we have in our culture with what Jesus called "the least of these." But helping the poor, as good a deed as it is, still does not address the issues that all people are dead in their sins, and they need to know who Jesus Christ is, and believe in his name, and follow him.
I do not know if you actually know Jesus. Because I have never seen you post anything except about the homeless and the hungry. You may be homeless yourself, and use a computer at a library to post. If so, I pray God will find you a home. If not, then I would tell you to go to like minded people, say Habitat for Humanity and help build houses for those who have none.
Only the gospel changes hearts and lives. I know you have a good heart to care for the poor, but I would like to know where you stand with the Lord Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior.
BUT, even if we built homes and sheltered every single person in the world, and fed every single person (an honourable goal!) it does not begin to address the question of sin - nor does it present the gospel.
The goal of being a Christian is to spread the good news that Jesus died for our sins. Sometimes, we are able to share the riches that we have in our culture with what Jesus called "the least of these." But helping the poor, as good a deed as it is, still does not address the issues that all people are dead in their sins, and they need to know who Jesus Christ is, and believe in his name, and follow him.
I do not know if you actually know Jesus. Because I have never seen you post anything except about the homeless and the hungry. You may be homeless yourself, and use a computer at a library to post. If so, I pray God will find you a home. If not, then I would tell you to go to like minded people, say Habitat for Humanity and help build houses for those who have none.
Only the gospel changes hearts and lives. I know you have a good heart to care for the poor, but I would like to know where you stand with the Lord Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior.
What I have written is not hard, People need to learn to think. but I will simplify it.
Step 1, Acknowledge that you have no power to save yourself or to do Good in the truest sense. We need to be saved.
Step 2, believe that Jesus died for you and that through His death you are no longer Gods enemy.
Step 3, give up your will to God and die to self, that means to totally distrust self and give all to God no matter what.
Step 4, believe that Jesus will live through you by accepting the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Step 1, Acknowledge that you have no power to save yourself or to do Good in the truest sense. We need to be saved.
Step 2, believe that Jesus died for you and that through His death you are no longer Gods enemy.
Step 3, give up your will to God and die to self, that means to totally distrust self and give all to God no matter what.
Step 4, believe that Jesus will live through you by accepting the gift of the Holy Spirit.
You will not find any passage that supports such claim.
Your future sins weren't forgiven in advance rather it's sins committed up to the point of conversion that were purged, cleansed, and forgiven (Rom 3:25, 2 Peter 1:9). Sins committed after salvation can bring about spiritual death thus one would have to repent of them (Prov 28:13, 1 John 1:9).
Phil 4:8 Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.
Prov 4:24 Put away from thee a froward mouth, and perverse lips put far from thee.
Col 3:8 But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth.
Eph 4:29 Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.
Matt 5:30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
1 John 3:7-10
7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
The blood of Christ did not save us so that we can continue to live in rebellion.
Your future sins weren't forgiven in advance rather it's sins committed up to the point of conversion that were purged, cleansed, and forgiven (Rom 3:25, 2 Peter 1:9). Sins committed after salvation can bring about spiritual death thus one would have to repent of them (Prov 28:13, 1 John 1:9).
Phil 4:8 Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.
Prov 4:24 Put away from thee a froward mouth, and perverse lips put far from thee.
Col 3:8 But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth.
Eph 4:29 Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.
Matt 5:30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
1 John 3:7-10
7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
The blood of Christ did not save us so that we can continue to live in rebellion.
Starfield I like all your Scriptures. But why on earth were they written, if the Christians in that age were sinless? Why did they have to be instructed in what NOT to do? Because despite their love for Christ, they were still not mature. They had a learning process - partly unlearning their old life, partly learning what God required.
So the believers in Paul's and John's day were not perfect. Just like we are not today.
As for sinless, I had a vision of Westboro Baptist Church while you were ranting through this long thread. Now I am not saying you go there, but your legalism and cruelty will drive more people away from God than it will ever win.
I have shown you verse after verse, in context, in Greek to show you that we cannot be sinless. But you persist in coming on thread after thread and poisoning people with your doctrine of works. You admitted to having evil thoughts in another thread. I guess I will have to go search for it to throw in your face, because that is SIN!!
As for me, I thought of another simple verse today that proves that walking with God is not complete till we see Jesus face to face. Phil 1:6
"And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ." ESV
"being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus." NIV
"I am sure of this, that He who started a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus." HSCB
"Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:" KJV
"And I am sure of this: that the One who began a good work among you will keep it growing until it is completed on the Day of the Messiah Yeshua.:" Complete Jewish Bible
The journey with God is one that starts the day we believe with justification. It continues as we walk with the Holy Spirit and learn and grow close to Christ. We are made perfect on the final day, when our glorious King and Saviour returns!
Many scriptures have been posted here, that show that we have sin in this world. True, Paul URGES us to fight against sin, to live lives that are worthy of God.
And we try. But the pride that comes with saying, "I have no sin," seems to be one of the biggest sins I have seen in this forum.
"Pride goes before destruction, and a haughty spirit before a fall." Prov. 16:18
And just to finish ONE MORE TIME
"If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us." 1 John 1:10
Are you a liar, sinless and others who claim to have no sin? Because a lie is also a sin.
So the believers in Paul's and John's day were not perfect. Just like we are not today.
As for sinless, I had a vision of Westboro Baptist Church while you were ranting through this long thread. Now I am not saying you go there, but your legalism and cruelty will drive more people away from God than it will ever win.
I have shown you verse after verse, in context, in Greek to show you that we cannot be sinless. But you persist in coming on thread after thread and poisoning people with your doctrine of works. You admitted to having evil thoughts in another thread. I guess I will have to go search for it to throw in your face, because that is SIN!!
As for me, I thought of another simple verse today that proves that walking with God is not complete till we see Jesus face to face. Phil 1:6
"And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ." ESV
"being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus." NIV
"I am sure of this, that He who started a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus." HSCB
"Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:" KJV
"And I am sure of this: that the One who began a good work among you will keep it growing until it is completed on the Day of the Messiah Yeshua.:" Complete Jewish Bible
The journey with God is one that starts the day we believe with justification. It continues as we walk with the Holy Spirit and learn and grow close to Christ. We are made perfect on the final day, when our glorious King and Saviour returns!
Many scriptures have been posted here, that show that we have sin in this world. True, Paul URGES us to fight against sin, to live lives that are worthy of God.
And we try. But the pride that comes with saying, "I have no sin," seems to be one of the biggest sins I have seen in this forum.
"Pride goes before destruction, and a haughty spirit before a fall." Prov. 16:18
And just to finish ONE MORE TIME
"If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us." 1 John 1:10
Are you a liar, sinless and others who claim to have no sin? Because a lie is also a sin.
Who's going to believe in Jesus or any other name when both have to pay rent light and gas bills? That's not God.
I'm saying let us rid ourselves of this backyard way of thinking and make all things available to all for free. If you didn't have to pay a single thing for whatever you needed or wanted without charge, what would you do?
We can do this right now! Instead of nations putting there best minds on weapons of war to fight one another, we could all work together and those minds could be used to improve life for all. If the love of money is the ROOT of evil, meaning ALL EVIL'S SOURCE, we can't get rid of us, we sure as hell can't get rid of love, but we can DAMN sure get rid of money!
Now again I say that WHATEVER it is in your mind preventing this from happening is what we are fighting! It is our true enemy and it is NOT of God!
I'm saying let us rid ourselves of this backyard way of thinking and make all things available to all for free. If you didn't have to pay a single thing for whatever you needed or wanted without charge, what would you do?
We can do this right now! Instead of nations putting there best minds on weapons of war to fight one another, we could all work together and those minds could be used to improve life for all. If the love of money is the ROOT of evil, meaning ALL EVIL'S SOURCE, we can't get rid of us, we sure as hell can't get rid of love, but we can DAMN sure get rid of money!
Now again I say that WHATEVER it is in your mind preventing this from happening is what we are fighting! It is our true enemy and it is NOT of God!
L
A Study on Romans 7:20-25
Dr. Jack L. Arnold
Dr. Jack L. Arnold (1935-2005) is President of Equipping Pastors International and Pastor Emeritus of Covenant Presbyterian Church in Oviedo, FL.
"One of the most shocking moments in a Christian’s life is when he discovers how sinful he really is. There comes a time when a believer realizes that he has a force for evil in him that is so powerful that even as a saved man he cannot overcome it in his own strength.
A Christian must come to this place where he sees no good in himself, and where he realizes that all self-effort cannot deliver him from sin or enable him to live the Christian life. He must be brought to an end of himself and then cast himself wholly on God for deliverance from sin in his daily experience.
This is the lesson that the Apostle Paul had to learn in Romans 7:7-25. He loved the Mosaic Law and longed to keep the spiritual requirements of the Law. But God used the Law to show him how sinful he really was. Paul had been absolutely convinced that he could keep the righteousness of the Law in his own strength and self-effort. But God brought him to the end of himself by showing him his utter inability and helplessness to keep the Law in his own strength, and by convincing him that he needed outside help.
The discovery that Paul made was that of indwelling sin (Rom. 7:18: “In my flesh dwelleth no good thing!”). He longed to keep the Law, but could not do it because of this indwelling sin. There was nothing wrong with the Law; the problem was with Paul and his own wretchedness.."
PAUL ACKNOWLEDGES THE LAW AND SIN — Romans 7:21-23
“I find [am finding] then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is [constantly] present with me.” Paul found in himself this principle for evil, the sin nature, even though he was a saved man. When he desired to do the good of the Law, he found in himself this sin principle which opposed him.
A failure to acknowledge that evil is still present in the child of God can make shipwreck of a person’s life. This is one of the reasons that many Christians crack up mentally. They try to live the Christian life but find only conflict. They do not realize that this is a normal experience to teach dependence upon the Holy Spirit... end of quote
This partial quote from Dr. Arnold's lesson concerning sin and the Christian is written using scripture and what I believe to be an excellent observation/lesson addressing Christians' greatest concern while living on earth, sin.
The entire article is in pdf format on the internet at http://thirdmill.org/newfiles/jac_arnold/NT.Arnold.Rom.37.pdf or Google Search it with "Who Shall Deliver Me? A Study on Romans 7:20-25 Dr. Jack L. Arnold. It will give every Christian that desires an understanding of this important subject, in-depth understanding and answers to some of your most intimate spiritual questions as a believer without the extraneous commentary.
It helped me and hopefully it will other Christians that walk in Faith.
Respectfully submitted by:
Livingepistle
Dr. Jack L. Arnold
Dr. Jack L. Arnold (1935-2005) is President of Equipping Pastors International and Pastor Emeritus of Covenant Presbyterian Church in Oviedo, FL.
"One of the most shocking moments in a Christian’s life is when he discovers how sinful he really is. There comes a time when a believer realizes that he has a force for evil in him that is so powerful that even as a saved man he cannot overcome it in his own strength.
A Christian must come to this place where he sees no good in himself, and where he realizes that all self-effort cannot deliver him from sin or enable him to live the Christian life. He must be brought to an end of himself and then cast himself wholly on God for deliverance from sin in his daily experience.
This is the lesson that the Apostle Paul had to learn in Romans 7:7-25. He loved the Mosaic Law and longed to keep the spiritual requirements of the Law. But God used the Law to show him how sinful he really was. Paul had been absolutely convinced that he could keep the righteousness of the Law in his own strength and self-effort. But God brought him to the end of himself by showing him his utter inability and helplessness to keep the Law in his own strength, and by convincing him that he needed outside help.
The discovery that Paul made was that of indwelling sin (Rom. 7:18: “In my flesh dwelleth no good thing!”). He longed to keep the Law, but could not do it because of this indwelling sin. There was nothing wrong with the Law; the problem was with Paul and his own wretchedness.."
PAUL ACKNOWLEDGES THE LAW AND SIN — Romans 7:21-23
“I find [am finding] then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is [constantly] present with me.” Paul found in himself this principle for evil, the sin nature, even though he was a saved man. When he desired to do the good of the Law, he found in himself this sin principle which opposed him.
A failure to acknowledge that evil is still present in the child of God can make shipwreck of a person’s life. This is one of the reasons that many Christians crack up mentally. They try to live the Christian life but find only conflict. They do not realize that this is a normal experience to teach dependence upon the Holy Spirit... end of quote
This partial quote from Dr. Arnold's lesson concerning sin and the Christian is written using scripture and what I believe to be an excellent observation/lesson addressing Christians' greatest concern while living on earth, sin.
The entire article is in pdf format on the internet at http://thirdmill.org/newfiles/jac_arnold/NT.Arnold.Rom.37.pdf or Google Search it with "Who Shall Deliver Me? A Study on Romans 7:20-25 Dr. Jack L. Arnold. It will give every Christian that desires an understanding of this important subject, in-depth understanding and answers to some of your most intimate spiritual questions as a believer without the extraneous commentary.
It helped me and hopefully it will other Christians that walk in Faith.
Respectfully submitted by:
Livingepistle
Last edited by a moderator:
A
Who is perfect (Complete in Jesus Christ?) Complete in Spirit Soul Body? None yet. Is not the Lord the Lord and master of Perfection? Yes, sinning with the will is a choice even after a new birth experience, some of the brethern are blessed with good grounded hearts and souls and if so produce Holy spirit fruits, but for us who are hardened in places in our souls and fall the provision and covenant is if we admit the truth confess it believe His love repent of the weakness and are forgiven more that 70 times 7 then His blood of Omnipotent Love cleanses us, those also that have stony hearts and shallow hearts and hearts that are surrounded in the cares of the world, is my soul perfect as Christ Jesus, not yet i am still growing not by your experience or your knowledge of the scriptures, anyone that reads the scriptures must have the power of the Holy Spirit to create the grace and work of forming Jesus in that area of your heart and soul. Why do i expect you to be as me i am not you but i may receive the power of the Holy Spirit from you, to grow and overcome a weakness, is weakness sin some may be using this idea as to be the same. I do not believe a weakness is sin every time, lets say i am in agreement with Jesus as He reveals and works out my weakness to His strength until then He has provided grace power mercy and His blood to keep me until i am strenghtened to mature and be complete in that area so as to produce fruits of the Holy Spirit. Is growing in strength over my example anger a sin i may grow as a plant does but not fully mature in my emotions is that a sin no unless i want to keep it and refuse to repent and if i ask forgiveness, because i have this emotion and did not have perfect agape was i never born again i say not from my own experience. To grow into perfection (complete) in Jesus is a transformation by faith and the truth, that being i am growing in Jesus perfecting me to His perfect character and likeness but this is the will of God no matter if a brother is stronger than i i do not condemn him or her but if they are willing to be strenghten in their weakness. I say not to tell them you fell down you were never saved you have never repented(70x7 to forgive my brother) his weakness does not cause Jesus to reject Him only faith that the Love is greater that his weakness or sin. The Father has full faith that Jesus will work out our perfection in Him so we are hid in CHRIST In God Since the new birth we set our affections on Christ we are dead by faith not yet completed (perfected) in mind body or soul as Christ is yet we walk in faith were we are not were others may be in their maturity,So i walk toward and with the Lord it is my path no one else is on i am lead by faith that my weaknss' are cover and known by the Lord faith in Him will give me His strength to overcome. We have access to the mind of Jesus if i am perfect then i have no other carnal thought ideas impulses desires temptations in the conscious what about the subconscious is that perfect how about your unconcious is that perfect? If you really want to admit it you have not seen your subsconscious if you did you may be so overwhelmed to it that you may lose you faith in what the Lord has done for you in you conscious, one day you will and one day will be complete (perfect in mind emotions will effections and desires for all mortality will be removed when mortality is removed and you put on immortality eternally then we all who finsih our race to the perfect finish line and see our perfector we will only then be perfect complete in Him..
Good question,
Php 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
Or, does he motivate you to do, and if so, by means of what?
The same Faith that gave us reconciliation is the same method by which we get His life.
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
The way to have the life of Jesus is to ask for it. Remember its the Spirit that gives us Jesus life.
Luk 11:13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?
If we ask believing then it will be ours.
Hope that answers your question.
Both the work of reconciliation and overcoming sin are 100% the work of Christ for us and in us.
Php 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
Or, does he motivate you to do, and if so, by means of what?
The same Faith that gave us reconciliation is the same method by which we get His life.
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
The way to have the life of Jesus is to ask for it. Remember its the Spirit that gives us Jesus life.
Luk 11:13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?
If we ask believing then it will be ours.
Hope that answers your question.
Both the work of reconciliation and overcoming sin are 100% the work of Christ for us and in us.
Dead to Sin, Alive in Christ
Rom. 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Rom. 6:12-14
12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
Rom. 6:22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.
The Believer's Walk
Eph. 4:17-24
17 This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind,
18 Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:
19 Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.
20 But ye have not so learned Christ;
21 If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus:
22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
A Chosen People
1 Pet. 2:9-12
9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:
10 Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.
11 Dearly beloved, I beseech you as strangers and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts, which war against the soul;
12 Having your conversation honest among the Gentiles: that, whereas they speak against you as evildoers, they may by your good works, which they shall behold, glorify God in the day of visitation.
Rom. 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Rom. 6:12-14
12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
Rom. 6:22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.
The Believer's Walk
Eph. 4:17-24
17 This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind,
18 Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:
19 Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.
20 But ye have not so learned Christ;
21 If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus:
22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
A Chosen People
1 Pet. 2:9-12
9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:
10 Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.
11 Dearly beloved, I beseech you as strangers and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts, which war against the soul;
12 Having your conversation honest among the Gentiles: that, whereas they speak against you as evildoers, they may by your good works, which they shall behold, glorify God in the day of visitation.