Daniel 9:27 blunder...

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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Dan 9, the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate.

Dan 11: Place there (place of worship or inner sanctum where sacrifices occure) the abomination which makes desolate

Fulfilled by Antiochus epiphanes, the greek ruler who defiled the santuary with an unclean thing (pig)

Dan 12: 11 Time of tribulation or distress. Pre-cursed by the abomination which makes desolate. Done by the final gentile ruler (rome 2)

in All three passages. The word abomination.

shiqqûts, shik-koots´; from 8262; disgusting, i.e. filthy; espec. idolatrous or (concr.) an idol:—abominable filth (idol, -ation), detestable (thing).

Strong, J. (2009). Vol. 2: A Concise Dictionary of the Words in the Greek Testament and The Hebrew Bible (120). Bellingham, WA: Logos Bible Software.

As you can see, it all refers to a THING. which causes desolation. An unclean thing or idol. It is NOT an army, it is NOT being destroyed, It is some place which is made UNCLEAN by the idol or unclean thing which is set in the place. MAKING that place desolate.
 
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so how do you allegorize dead bodies lying in the streets of that great city - the city where The Lord was crucified?
Good question. How do we?

Could it be by wormwood?
 
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Sorry zone but the temp jumped from down in the thirties up to 74 degrees here within the last few hours and it has set my head to feeling like it is about to fall off.

I just cannot think right now for a while.

This crazy weather is what is going to finish me.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
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Good question. How do we?

Could it be by wormwood?
you don't.
that was fulfilled.
why not go back and see what you can match up with actual literal historical fulfilments before going all global allegorical?
not saying that isn't there (cuz it is..just not where y'all are lookin').

the bible has internal witnesses as to what has been fulfilled.

once you do that, it's a simple process of elimination.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
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No, wormwood is how she gathers support.
Jeremiah 23 c 588BC
The Coming Messiah: the Righteous Branch

1“Woe to the shepherds who are destroying and scattering the sheep of My pasture!” declares the LORD.2Therefore thus says the LORD God of Israel concerning the shepherds who are tending My people: “You have scattered My flock and driven them away, and have not attended to them; behold, I am about to attend to you for the evil of your deeds,” declares the LORD.3“Then I Myself will gather the remnant of My flock out of all the countries where I have driven them and bring them back to their pasture, and they will be fruitful and multiply.4“I will also raise up shepherds over them and they will tend them; and they will not be afraid any longer, nor be terrified, nor will any be missing,” declares the LORD.

5“Behold, the days are coming,” declares the LORD,
“When I will raise up for David a righteous Branch;
And He will reign as king and act wisely
And do justice and righteousness in the land.

6“In His days Judah will be saved,
And Israel will dwell securely;
And this is His name by which He will be called,
‘The LORD our righteousness.’

7“Therefore behold, the days are coming,” declares the LORD, “when they will no longer say, ‘As the LORD lives, who brought up the sons of Israel from the land of Egypt,’8but, ‘As the LORD lives, who brought up and led back the descendants of the household of Israel from the north land and from all the countries where I had driven them.’ Then they will live on their own soil.”

False Prophets Denounced

9As for the prophets:
My heart is broken within me,
All my bones tremble;
I have become like a drunken man,
Even like a man overcome with wine,
Because of the LORD
And because of His holy words.

10For the land is full of adulterers;
For the land mourns because of the curse.
The pastures of the wilderness have dried up.
Their course also is evil
And their might is not right.

11“For both prophet and priest are polluted;
Even in My house I have found their wickedness,” declares the LORD.

12“Therefore their way will be like slippery paths to them,
They will be driven away into the gloom and fall down in it;
For I will bring calamity upon them,
The year of their punishment,” declares the LORD.

13“Moreover, among the prophets of Samaria I saw an offensive thing:
They prophesied by Baal and led My people Israel astray.

14“Also among the prophets of Jerusalem I have seen a horrible thing:
The committing of adultery and walking in falsehood;
And they strengthen the hands of evildoers,
So that no one has turned back from his wickedness.
All of them have become to Me like Sodom,
And her inhabitants like Gomorrah.

15“Therefore thus says the LORD of hosts concerning the prophets,
‘Behold, I am going to feed them wormwood
And make them drink poisonous water,
For from the prophets of Jerusalem
Pollution has gone forth into all the land.’”

16Thus says the LORD of hosts,
“Do not listen to the words of the prophets who are prophesying to you.
They are leading you into futility;
They speak a vision of their own imagination,
Not from the mouth of the LORD.

17“They keep saying to those who despise Me,
‘The LORD has said, “You will have peace”’;
And as for everyone who walks in the stubbornness of his own heart,
They say, ‘Calamity will not come upon you.’

18“But who has stood in the council of the LORD,
That he should see and hear His word?
Who has given heed to His word and listened?

19“Behold, the storm of the LORD has gone forth in wrath,
Even a whirling tempest;
It will swirl down on the head of the wicked.

20“The anger of the LORD will not turn back
Until He has performed and carried out the purposes of His heart;
In the last days you will clearly understand it.

21“I did not send these prophets,
But they ran.
I did not speak to them,
But they prophesied.

22“But if they had stood in My council,
Then they would have announced My words to My people,
And would have turned them back from their evil way
And from the evil of their deeds.

23“Am I a God who is near,” declares the LORD,
“And not a God far off?

24“Can a man hide himself in hiding places
So I do not see him?” declares the LORD.
“Do I not fill the heavens and the earth?” declares the LORD.

25“I have heard what the prophets have said who prophesy falsely in My name, saying, ‘I had a dream, I had a dream!’26“How long? Is there anything in the hearts of the prophets who prophesy falsehood, even these prophets of the deception of their own heart,27who intend to make My people forget My name by their dreams which they relate to one another, just as their fathers forgot My name because of Baal?28“The prophet who has a dream may relate his dream, but let him who has My word speak My word in truth. What does straw have in common with grain?” declares the LORD.29“Is not My word like fire?” declares the LORD, “and like a hammer which shatters a rock?30“Therefore behold, I am against the prophets,” declares the LORD, “who steal My words from each other.31“Behold, I am against the prophets,” declares the LORD, “who use their tongues and declare, ‘The Lord declares.’32“Behold, I am against those who have prophesied false dreams,” declares the LORD, “and related them and led My people astray by their falsehoods and reckless boasting; yet I did not send them or command them, nor do they furnish this people the slightest benefit,” declares the LORD.

33“Now when this people or the prophet or a priest asks you saying, ‘What is the oracle of the LORD?’ then you shall say to them, ‘What oracle?’ The LORD declares, ‘I will abandon you.’34“Then as for the prophet or the priest or the people who say, ‘The oracle of the LORD,’ I will bring punishment upon that man and his household.35“Thus will each of you say to his neighbor and to his brother, ‘What has the LORD answered?’ or, ‘What has the LORD spoken?’36“For you will no longer remember the oracle of the LORD, because every man’s own word will become the oracle, and you have perverted the words of the living God, the LORD of hosts, our God.37“Thus you will say to that prophet, ‘What has the LORD answered you?’ and, ‘What has the LORD spoken?’38“For if you say, ‘The oracle of the LORD!’ surely thus says the LORD, ‘Because you said this word, “The oracle of the LORD!” I have also sent to you, saying, “You shall not say, ‘The oracle of the LORD!’”’39“Therefore behold, I will surely forget you and cast you away from My presence, along with the city which I gave you and your fathers.40“I will put an everlasting reproach on you and an everlasting humiliation which will not be forgotten.”

~

why do we want to get everything we know from the Book of Revelation?
i mean, that's fine...but it's full of symbols.

do we know what they are?

"20“The anger of the LORD will not turn back
Until He has performed and carried out the purposes of His heart;
In the last days you will clearly understand it."

what last days is He speaking of?
 
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vic1980

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Apr 25, 2013
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I thought this thread was done with ??? If one is waiting for a revival of roman empire its not going to happen, if one is waiting on a third temple in Jerusalem made by man hands it not going to happen , God clearly told us what to watch out for brethren. Remember Daniel interprets king nebuchadnezzar’s dream ??? in Daniel 2:1-45 From the begining, to the end of all things :) God bless
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
I thought this thread was done with ??? If one is waiting for a revival of roman empire its not going to happen, if one is waiting on a third temple in Jerusalem made by man hands it not going to happen , God clearly told us what to watch out for brethren. Remember Daniel interprets king nebuchadnezzar’s dream ??? in Daniel 2:1-45 From the begining, to the end of all things :) God bless

lol. You don;'t watch the news much do ya? the roman empire is forming as we speak. it is called the european union. Which if they would become one, would be mor epowerful than the US and CHina in people. money and recources.

As for the third temple. The plans and materials are already drawn up. The only thing waiting is the ability to do it. They even have the money to do it. If it was started today it could be done in just a few years.


Scripture does not say the third temple will be to help remove sin. Non of the first two did that. So it does not matter if it is made or not as far as sin being forgiven..
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Sorry zone but the temp jumped from down in the thirties up to 74 degrees here within the last few hours and it has set my head to feeling like it is about to fall off.

I just cannot think right now for a while.

This crazy weather is what is going to finish me.

lol true, crazy weather this year!
 
Mar 15, 2013
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you don't.
that was fulfilled.
why not go back and see what you can match up with actual literal historical fulfilments before going all global allegorical?
not saying that isn't there (cuz it is..just not where y'all are lookin').

the bible has internal witnesses as to what has been fulfilled.

once you do that, it's a simple process of elimination.

There are many things that were fulfilled which serve as sort of spiritual acronyms.

Leviticus 26:8 "And five of you shall chase an hundred, and an hundred of you shall put ten thousand to flight: and your enemies shall fall before you by the sword."

Psalms 91:7 "A thousand shall fall at thy side, and ten thousand at thy right hand; but it shall not come nigh thee."

Song of Songs 5:10 "My beloved is white and ruddy, the chiefest among ten thousand."

Isaiah 60:22 "A little one shall become a thousand, and a small one a strong nation: I the LORD will hasten it in his time."

Matthew 18:24 "And when he had begun to reckon, one was brought unto him, which owed him ten thousand talents."

Luke 14:31 "Or what king, going to make war against another king, sitteth not down first, and consulteth whether he be able with ten thousand to meet him that cometh against him with twenty thousand?"

But this one compares to that great city today. Acts 21:36 "For the multitude of the people followed after, crying, Away with him.
37 And as Paul was to be led into the castle, he said unto the chief captain, May I speak unto thee? Who said [the chief captian], "Canst thou speak Greek?
38 Art not thou that Egyptian, which before these days madest an uproar, and leddest out into the wilderness four thousand men that were murderers?"

39 But Paul said, I am a man which am a Jew of Tarsus, a city in Cilicia, a citizen of no mean city: and, I beseech thee, suffer me to speak unto the people.
 
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Isn't it amazing how that chief captain acquainted Paul's work as a Jew persecuting true Christians with his being "that Egyptian, which before these days madest an uproar, and leddest out into the wilderness four thousand men that were murderers", there at Acts 21:38?

Kind of gives us a sense of how that great city is Egypt.

Her having welcomed those among her ranks that are like those of Sodom easily explains that part of her spiritual name.

Only one institution has done both today.
 
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vic1980

Senior Member
Apr 25, 2013
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lol. You don;'t watch the news much do ya? the roman empire is forming as we speak. it is called the european union. Which if they would become one, would be mor epowerful than the US and CHina in people. money and recources.

As for the third temple. The plans and materials are already drawn up. The only thing waiting is the ability to do it. They even have the money to do it. If it was started today it could be done in just a few years.


Scripture does not say the third temple will be to help remove sin. Non of the first two did that. So it does not matter if it is made or not as far as sin being forgiven..
Correct i do not watch tv , as for the third temple built by the jews or the templemount.org where in scripture is this? God clearly gave authority to only 3 individuals to build his Holy temple sir. God bless you and have a great evening :)
 
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Bistabuster

Guest

lol. You don;'t watch the news much do ya? the roman empire is forming as we speak. it is called the european union. Which if they would become one, would be mor epowerful than the US and CHina in people. money and recources.

As for the third temple. The plans and materials are already drawn up. The only thing waiting is the ability to do it. They even have the money to do it. If it was started today it could be done in just a few years.


Scripture does not say the third temple will be to help remove sin. Non of the first two did that. So it does not matter if it is made or not as far as sin being forgiven..
I would say the Islamic empire is building up and if anybody hasn't checked up with it, Islam hates us and wants Christians and especially Jews out of their land. The Muslims want Israel back that they lost in 67 but they're not gonna get it. Rev 13 is a dead ringer for the religion of Islam. Islam is the anti religion religion. If it isn't Islam, it must be destroyed.

That is what is going on right now.
 
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Bistabuster

Guest
Correct i do not watch tv , as for the third temple built by the jews or the templemount.org where in scripture is this? God clearly gave authority to only 3 individuals to build his Holy temple sir. God bless you and have a great evening :)
There really is no need to build another temple. Two reasons. Daily sacrifices are no more. That's OT stuff. Second. The current temple is doing a fine job of being in the way. Also the writings on the walls are truly blasphemous against the real God. One such inscription reads "God forbid that he should have a son." And right before that they deny the trinity. They (Muslims) make Jesus look like an idiot.
 
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GreenNnice

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[TD="align: left"] fROM KEYWAY.CA WEBSITE: oF COURSE, i CAN speak myself but this says EXACTLY what I AM saying too :)


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[TD="align: left"] The Abomination of Desolation

"So when you see standing in the Holy Place "the abomination that causes desolation," spoken of through the prophet Daniel, let the reader understand - then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains." (Matthew 24:15-16) That prophecy spoken by Jesus Christ is going to be fulfilled somewhere in the area of the Temple Mount in Jerusalem. But what exactly did He mean by "abomination of desolation"?

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First, the location, as specified in the prophecy. Jerusalem is in Judea, and the "Holy Place" (i.e. the Temple Mount, seen in the link above) is in Jerusalem. Can we therefore be sure that this is the Place To Watch? Since the last Temple was destroyed by the Roman Army in 70 A.D., a new Temple (apart from the Christian meaning and application of the word Temple) must be constructed by the Jewish people before the "abomination of desolation" can occur in it. Second, the time when it will occur. If we read through to the end of the prophecy, we find, "At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory." (Matthew 24:30). This clearly describes the time of The Return Of Jesus Christ. That great event has not yet happened, so we know that the "abomination of desolation" hasn't happened yet either.
So what do we know so far? (1) The "abomination of desolation" will occur at some time in the future, (2) in a new Temple, (3) that will be constructed on, or near, the Temple Mount, (4) just before the time of the Return of Jesus Christ. There are many other direct Scriptural references that fully support these points.
But what of the "abomination of desolation" itself? What will it, or he, be?
In the time Between The Testaments, the Syrian king Antiochus Epiphanes erected a pagan altar right in the Temple in Jerusalem and used it to sacrifice a pig to the heathen god Jupiter Olympus. Some have described this as the "abomination of desolation." The only problem with that opinion is that the incident occurred in 167 B.C. - after the book of Daniel was written, yes, but over 200 years before Jesus Christ made His reference to it in a prophecy about a future event. Antiochus Epiphanes could not have been the "abomination of desolation" - although he was an object lesson of what it will be.
Others believe that the Roman destruction of the Temple in 70 A.D. fulfilled Jesus' prophecy, but His Return did not occur then as is specified in the prophecy. The Romans at that time could not have been the "abomination of desolation."
So what is it going to be? The answer is found in your Bible -


  • "And one who causes desolation will place abominations on a wing of the Temple until the end that is decreed is poured out on him." (Daniel 9:27) It will be a human who erects something in the Temple of God that will then have been built.
  • "His armed forces will rise up to desecrate the Temple and will abolish the daily sacrifice. Then they will set up the abomination that causes desolation. With flattery he will corrupt those who have violated the covenant, but the people who know their God will firmly resist him." (Daniel 11:31-32) He will lead a military superpower that will have conquered Israel. He will also claim religious authority, and because of his miraculous powers, millions will believe and follow him.
  • "So when you see standing in the Holy Place "the abomination that causes desolation," spoken of through the prophet Daniel, let the reader understand - then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains." (Matthew 24:15-16) He, and it, will defile the Temple just before the Return of Jesus Christ.
  • "He opposes and exalts himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, and even sets himself up in God's Temple, proclaiming himself to be God." (2 Thessalonians 2:4) He will claim to be not just a god, but God. He will establish himself in God's Temple which he will claim as his own.
  • "The coming of the lawless ( this IS the anti-Christ, so, no "anti-Christ" is mentioned, so WHAT ! Do your own go-figuring :) ) one will be in accordance with the work of Satan displayed in all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders." (2 Thessalonians 2:9) He will have miraculous powers, from Satan, that will enable him to deceive and conquer.
There is absolutely nothing more abominable in the sight of God than a mere human claiming to be a god, let alone the true God. It is the absolute, ultimate blasphemy.
Your Bible clearly states that there is coming a great dictator who is going to have tremendous, seemingly miraculous, powers - but not from God. This man, for some time, is going to be nearly undefeatable. Allied with his Great False Prophet, he is going to deceive and enslave millions of people (Revelation chapter 13 describes their relationship very well, including how the military dictator takes the superior position in religious matters). His power will not last very long, but while it does, he is going to be the most powerful man on earth.
That man, and the idol that he erects to himself in God's Temple, will be the abomination of desolation. See Birth Of A Superpower.
Fact Finder: How long will the great power of this dictator last?
Revelation 13:5
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GRA

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King Herod built the three heavily fortified towers of the citadel upon a location that was already a very fortified position since the days of Solomon. Jerusalem's citadel was the highest point of the city about 2500 feet above sea level. Herod built the citadel and towers to protect the western side of the city of Jerusalem and his marvelous palace. These were fantastic towers, the largest was the Phasael Tower but the most beautiful was his Mariamne Tower.

The Phasael Tower
1. Phasael Tower (the largest, named after his brother stood 145 feet high).

The Hippicus Tower
2. Hippicus Tower (named after a friend, and was 132 feet high)

The Mariamme Tower
3. Mariamme Tower (named after his beloved Hasmonean wife whom he had murdered. Josephus said "the king considering it appropriate that the tower named after a woman should surpass in decoration those called after men." It stood 74 feet high).

When Titus destroyed most of Jerusalem in 70 AD., he spared Herod's fortress.

Nothing remains of Herod's three towers and a Citadel named "David's Tower" stands on the spot of a Phasael’s Tower.

Herod’s Three Towers - First Century Jerusalem - Bible History Online < click



oopsie.
busted.
Kathy,

Please explain to me how your post relates to my post - and - what you are trying to say... ??? I honestly do not understand. What am I missing?

Thanks,

Gary

:)
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Correct i do not watch tv , as for the third temple built by the jews or the templemount.org where in scripture is this? God clearly gave authority to only 3 individuals to build his Holy temple sir. God bless you and have a great evening :)
lol, you said for those waiting for a third temple to be built it was not going to happen. Now you state it may happen..

make up your mind? Many people do things God does command, And these many things are found in scripture. So who is to say if this third temple is built. It is not seen in prophesy? prophesy DOES look at future events. It does not have to say God commanded it to be built for it to be in prophesy, It just says it is there. If it was built in sin or unbelief, is beside the point.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
I would say the Islamic empire is building up and if anybody hasn't checked up with it, Islam hates us and wants Christians and especially Jews out of their land. The Muslims want Israel back that they lost in 67 but they're not gonna get it. Rev 13 is a dead ringer for the religion of Islam. Islam is the anti religion religion. If it isn't Islam, it must be destroyed.

That is what is going on right now.
Islam is nothing. they are no more dangerous than the false church, the Radical jews or any other false religion. they have come and gone over the centuries.

1. They have no army,. just a few fanatical people who like to blow themselves up (terrorism will never overtake countries)
2. What is happening is the world financial system is becoming united. It is going to be forced that way because of the way the worlds economy is going, with free trade etc etc.
3. Also, the worlds economy is on the verge of collapse. If this happens. Countries will be forced to unite and come together. and it would make it easy for a charismatic person to take over the world promising peace and prosparity (fix things)
4. Islam is no more dangerous than the fanatical jews, or the false church (both of which are MUCH larger than islam is, and will probably ever be)

You need to start watching the news, you might at least learn some things..
 
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lol, you said for those waiting for a third temple to be built it was not going to happen. Now you state it may happen..

make up your mind? Many people do things God does command, And these many things are found in scripture. So who is to say if this third temple is built. It is not seen in prophesy? prophesy DOES look at future events. It does not have to say God commanded it to be built for it to be in prophesy, It just says it is there. If it was built in sin or unbelief, is beside the point.
Again EG,

Where does Jesus,John or anyone else say that a third temple will be built? John never says that the temple he is talking about is a third temple nor do the gospels ever indicate that the temple had been destroyed already. Daniel is told to seal up the words,John is told NOT to seal up the words. John is told that these were at HAND. John is told to write to the seven churches in Asia and they are told that these are going to happen to them. Jesus told these things would happen to that generation,not a generation in the future. So how do all they things work when we are never told there would be a third temple?
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Again EG,

Where does Jesus,John or anyone else say that a third temple will be built?


who said they had to say it? does the fact they not say it mean it will not be built or can;t be built?? tell that to the jews trying this very moment to build one!

John never says that the temple he is talking about is a third temple nor do the gospels ever indicate that the temple had been destroyed already. Daniel is told to seal up the words,John is told NOT to seal up the words. John is told that these were at HAND. John is told to write to the seven churches in Asia and they are told that these are going to happen to them. Jesus told these things would happen to that generation,not a generation in the future. So how do all they things work when we are never told there would be a third temple?
lol.. ok. so tell me.

1. When was there a one world economy ever in the history of the world
2. Tell me when one leader had control of every nation tribe and tongue on earth (rome never had that much power or authroity or territory)
3. Tell me when the world leader was destroyed by Christ and throne into th elake of fire with the false prophet


John does not have to say a third temple was built. all he has to tell us is one was there. your trying to get be because he did not say it it must not be true. that is no more correct than saying because he did not say it, it is not true.

so much told of in revelation after the first three chapters could not possibally have occured yet. But if you want to think it has, I pray your not here when they do occure, You will be blindsided with the rest, because you do not think they will or can happen.