What is the meaning of Hebrews 6

[tono77]

I don't know if this have been asked in the forum but can someone help with the meaning, of Hebrews 6 the first verses , does it mean there is a point when someone cannot be saved anymore?

6 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
[SUP]2 [/SUP]Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]And this will we do, if God permit.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
[SUP]6 [/SUP]If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:
[SUP]8 [/SUP]But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.

 

[PilgrimUK]

Yes, absolutely.

"A man who hardens his neck after much reproof will be broken beyond remedy."

"Not everyone who says to me "Lord, Lord" will enter the kingdom"

"Did we not cast out demons in your name?" "I tell you, I never knew you, away from me you doer of evil."

John tells us also that there is a sin that should not be prayed for (as the person has already fallen while they live).

 

[enoch1nine]

It is addressed to disciples, not believers. It says it is impossible in verse 4 and 5, to experience the effect of verse 6, to "re-crucify" Christ, that is, to say the same kinds of things about Him that the pharisees did.

This impossibility is reinforced in verses 10 and 17-19

It has nothing to do with being saved and unsaved, verses 1-4 puts those things aside for the remainder of the conversation. It is about falling away from a mutual agreement of service.

 

[PilgrimUK]

It is addressed to disciples, not believers. It says it is impossible in verse 4 and 5, to experience the effect of verse 6, to "re-crucify" Christ, that is, to say the same kinds of things about Him that the pharisees did.

Sorry Enoch, but it is a warning to believers. It is warning that the things in verse 6 could well happen.

 

[tono77]

Sorry Enoch, but it is a warning to believers. It is warning that the things in verse 6 could well happen.

It is still confusing to me because when it says:
" once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come"

It is not saying that there were saved, it sound that they were followers but did not get saved?? Am i wrong on this thinking?

 

[WeStand]

I don't know if this have been asked in the forum but can someone help with the meaning, of Hebrews 6 the first verses , does it mean there is a point when someone cannot be saved anymore?

6 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
[SUP]2 [/SUP]Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]And this will we do, if God permit.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
[SUP]6 [/SUP]If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:
[SUP]8 [/SUP]But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.

The doctrine of Christ is Our Fathers Word. that was spoken to Moses & The Prophets (not self-proclaimed prophets)

Written and recorded by Moses & The Prophets scribes, of which Aaron, Moses's brother, being the chief scribe there of.

Genesis is the Father's explanation of Christianity, of how in and through Christ/Messiah that He will save whomsoever will listen willingly to His plan of salvation and not some mans explanation of it.

The Father explains Himself fully, completely and with clarity, and one does not need to try to explain it to somebody else, what He said, but rather attempt to guide them to hear it for themselves, then one wouldn't have any questions or doubts.

Genesis IS our Father's history, fully and completely, with the rest of the Bible being nothing more than the recorded proof of what He said coming to life; after all, the next book is titled Exodus, which in English means, The Way Out.

When one rejects the old spoken and recorded Word of Our Father, then they crucify Christ afresh, for Christ/Messiah IS the same Word, only this time the Living Word, repeating and proving what has already been said and written.

But always remember that sin in ignorance, is no sin. According to Our Father, not man.

Genesis IS the strong foundation of Reality/Christianity, not some wavering belief, though even that belief will get one through much tribulation, IF that belief is in Christ.

 

[PilgrimUK]

It is still confusing to me because when it says:
" once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come"

It is not saying that there were saved, it sound that they were followers but did not get saved?? Am i wrong on this thinking?

The Holy Spirit is for believers...they are the ones that partake in the Holy Spirit.
But obviously you are correct in the simple followers who are not saved can not see heaven as they are not born again.

 

[tono77]

The Holy Spirit is for believers...they are the ones that partake in the Holy Spirit.
But obviously you are correct in the simple followers who are not saved can not see heaven as they are not born again.

So who are those who If they shall fall away, is imporssible to renew them again unto repentance; where they saved , or were only partakers , and followers? When is impossible to repent?

 

[notuptome]

Those given a reprobate heart are likely beyond the point of repentance. Rom 1:28, 2 Tim 3:8
The passage in Hebrews 6 has been understood in several ways. It has been suggested that the writer is presenting a hypothetical case that if one could fall away it would not be possible to be re-saved. It could be speaking of people who were drawn by the Holy Spirit advancing to the threshold of salvation but turn back to the law and their own self righteousness. Many see the blessing of the saints, desire it, but will not come on the Lord's terms.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[PilgrimUK]

The words of Jesus at judgement and other areas in the NT show that these people were not genuine believers.
John speaks of "those that went out from us that were not really a part of us."

I do not know when it is impossible to repent. I do not think it is measured in time.
Look at how the Jews treated God in the OT, yet look at His response! All the time, He simply wanted them to return to Him...and when you see the list of things that the same people did, you realise it takes a lot.
God isn't sat waiting to catch people out. He loved people so much that He had One Son, and look what He did with Him in order to save mankind!

 

[nathan3]

It says as much in verse 6. Your those that turn away from God, after they had Christ, are going to need to repent of their sins. God will always be there but, you can drift so far away from God, that you can end up in hell if that's what you choose . Our choice.

 

[tono77]

Those given a reprobate heart are likely beyond the point of repentance. Rom 1:28, 2 Tim 3:8
The passage in Hebrews 6 has been understood in several ways. It has been suggested that the writer is presenting a hypothetical case that if one could fall away it would not be possible to be re-saved. It could be speaking of people who were drawn by the Holy Spirit advancing to the threshold of salvation but turn back to the law and their own self righteousness. Many see the blessing of the saints, desire it, but will not come on the Lord's terms.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

So does this scripture is not talking of true christians then? it seems is speaking of people who heard the word, and saw miracles , but then willingly went back to the their own self righteousness , and stop their walk in the Lord.

 

[PilgrimUK]

So does this scripture is not talking of true christians then? it seems is speaking of people who heard the word, and saw miracles , but then willingly went back to the their own self righteousness , and stop their walk in the Lord.

If they walked away from Him, if they got to the point of not being able to be forgiven, then how could they have been true Christians?
Let us not forget that a lot of the 70 Jesus sent out ultimately ended up walking away from Him and that after tasting miracles, after doing things IN His name.
Anyone that does things in their own righteousness rather than what Christ did on the cross, is a person cut off from Grace, from forgiveness as they are saying that they can get there without Him, they are bypassing the cross, and believe me, NO human has anything to offer God outside of Christ.

 

[RedTent]

When we read Hebrews, we must always be aware of when it was written, who it was written to, and why it was written. It was written to Hebrews who knew the OT scriptures very well, had met Christ, and were thinking of going back to the synagogue that did not recognize Christ. It is telling them that what they know of God is the foundation, but they must go on and grow with Christ. If we read it only as God speaking to us today as gentiles in 2013, we get the God principles we need to learn from it mixed up, and there is much for us to learn.

In Hebrews 6 it is telling these Hebrews who had accepted Christ as their Savior, if they now reject Him it as if they crucify Him all over again.

 

[Widdekind]

Hebrews 6 = 1 John 2 = apostates who profess persuasion, and then recant

seemingly explains some schisms:Donatism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Last Hour

Children, it is the last hour. And as you have heard, “Antichrist is coming,” even now many antichrists have come. We know from this that it is the last hour. They went out from us, but they did not belong to us; for if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us. However, they went out so that it might be made clear that none of them belongs to us.


But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and all of you have knowledge. I have not written to you because you don’t know the truth, but because you do know it, and because no lie comes from the truth. Who is the liar, if not the one who denies that Jesus is the Messiah? This one is the antichrist: the one who denies the Father and the Son. No one who denies the Son can have the Father; he who confesses the Son has the Father as well.

 

[1still_waters]

I don't know if this have been asked in the forum but can someone help with the meaning, of Hebrews 6 the first verses , does it mean there is a point when someone cannot be saved anymore?

6 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
[SUP]2 [/SUP]Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]And this will we do, if God permit.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
[SUP]6 [/SUP]If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:
[SUP]8 [/SUP]But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.

Hebrews was written to Jews who had relied on the law all of their life.
They had come to trust in Jesus.
Some were reverting back to trusting in the law.

These verses aren't talking about run of the mill backsliding.
These are meant for people who were going from reliance on Jesus back to reliance on Mosaic law.

Verses like these read without consideration for context can be used to make it look like there is no grace for the back slider.

There is grace for the back slider.

 

[notuptome]

So does this scripture is not talking of true christians then? it seems is speaking of people who heard the word, and saw miracles , but then willingly went back to the their own self righteousness , and stop their walk in the Lord.

I think the stronger position is the hypothetical wherein if they could, which is not to say that they can, lose their salvation it would by necessity be impossible to become re-saved because it would put Christ to an open shame. So I believe that it is speaking to saved persons and using a teaching method of presenting the obviously impossible to cause the hearer to think. Heb 7:25 says that Christ is able to save to the uttermost them that come to Him. If one is utterly saved changed from utterly lost how can one go back. That to my way of thinking is an insult to the blood of Christ. Heb 10:28-29 Heb 10:38-39 supports the idea that these were not saved but drew back before they believed unto salvation.
Just as no man really wants to go to hell but wants to go to heaven so no one really wants to reject Christ but many do because they will not come and admit they cannot save themselves. They would have us to believe that they are not perfect but not that bad that they do not deserve some credit. That is not the way God has said it is.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[PilgrimUK]

Hebrews was written to Jews who had relied on the law all of their life.
They had come to trust in Jesus.
Some were reverting back to trusting in the law.

These verses aren't talking about run of the mill backsliding.
These are meant for people who were going from reliance on Jesus back to reliance on Mosaic law.

Verses like these read without consideration for context can be used to make it look like there is no grace for the back slider.

There is grace for the back slider.

Actually, the line in bold is a very good point...one that had never crossed my mind before! Yay, I learnt something today!

 

[oldhermit]

It is still confusing to me because when it says:
" once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come"

It is not saying that there were saved, it sound that they were followers but did not get saved?? Am i wrong on this thinking?

In Heb. 6:4-8, the writer describes both the prior and latter states of those who had "FALLEN AWAY."

I. Prior state These had
A. Been enlightened.
B. Had tasted the heavenly gift. (The word for tasted is γευσαμένους which means to experience. This is the same word that is used in Heb. 2:9 saying Jesus "tasted" death for everyone.
C. Been made partakers of the Holy Spirit.
D. Tasted the good word of God.

II.. Present state. They have "fallen away." From what then have they fallen?
A. An enlightend state.
B. The experience of the heavenly gift.
C. The partaking or sharing of the Holy Spirit.
D. The good word of God.
E. Crucified Christ all over again. Like those of Heb. 10:26-31, these have "trampled under foot the Son of God and regarded as unclean the blood of
the covenant by which he WAS sanctified" (passed tense). In other words these now regard the blood that had once sanctified them as nothing more than the peverbial hog slaughtere on the altar.

III. The impossible delima - It is now impossible to renew the again to repentance. Why? Because they have fallen away from the very thing that brought
them to repentance in the first place which was the word of God. It is now impossible to restore them to repentance. One cannot be REnewed AGAIN to a state they have never occupied. Thus, having once been saved and then having fallen away, they cannot be brought because they will no longer repent. This is of course representing the extreem case.

IV. Their fate. Like the ground that yields thistles and thorns, they are cursed and end up being burned. Just like those of 10:26-31, whose fate is to fall
into the hands of a vengfull God who says, "I will repay."
A. The writer is not saying that they claimed to have tasted, but presents a statement of fact - "They had tasted." But you are right in saying that they returned to the law. These has left the law in response to the gospel. Now that they are rejecting the cross and going bact to the law. This is the foundation they were "laying again."
B. I am assuming that you are using the KJV or the NIV. Am I correct? The UBS does not show this to be a Question. There is no "if" in the Greek. it simply says, παραπεσόντας - literally "having fallen away". This is a statement of fact based on actual cases, not a what if scenario.
C. Under the law, sin was not forgiven on the basis of those sacrifices, but on the basis of what those sacrifices represented - the cross. Lev. chapters 4 and 5 show us that they were indeed forgiven under the law. But it was not by the law. Even David understood this. "How blessed is the man whose transgression is forgiven, whose sins are covered...to whom the Lord does not impute iniquity," Psalms 32:1-2. But he also knew that those sacrifices were not the avenue through which forgiveness came. "Thou doest not delight in sacrifice or I would bring it it." Psalms 51:1-2.
D. The inability to renew again is not linked to a supposition of "IF" they were to fall away. The impossibility is linked to the fact that after having been saved they have rejected the cross, not the old sacrifices, and in so doing have shamed Christ openly.
E. The writer does not say they cannot be 'saved' again. He says that cannot be brought back to repentance again. I am sure you would agree however, that this would render them unable to be saved since there is no longer repentance.
F. He is not comparing the crucifying of Christ again to the repetitious offering of O.T. sacrifice. To those who have rejected and fallen away, they are considering Christ worthy of the crucifiction. Thery are rejecting him and his sacrifice. Like those of 10:29, they are considering the blood of Christ "BY WHICH THEY HAD BEEN SANCTIFIED" and unclean thing, and have insulted the Spirit of grace.
G. The writer's point is that these had been sanctified - made holy - something that all of the sacrifices of the O.T. combined could never do. In verse 29, he even draws a contrast between the one's he speaking of and those who died under the law for rejecting Moses. those who rejected the blood after having been cleansed by it are worther of greater punishment. Verse 30 shows their fate.

 

[Elin]

I don't know if this have been asked in the forum but can someone help with the meaning, of Hebrews 6 the first verses , does it mean there is a point when someone cannot be saved anymore?

6 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
[SUP]2 [/SUP]Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]And this will we do, if God permit.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
[SUP]6 [/SUP]If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:
[SUP]8 [/SUP]But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.

This is not about reaching a point where you cannot be saved.

It is a warning to Jewish professing Christians who were thinking of returning to Judaism because of the ostracization and persecution of their family and friends.

The author warns them that if they return to Judaism they are rejecting Christ, and there will be no forgiveness for their sin, because in rejecting Christ, they are rejecting his sacrifice for their sin, and there is no other sacrifice for them.

Warnings are one of the ways God preserves true believers.
The true believer will heed God's warning and will not fatally fall, while the false believer (Mt 7:22-23) will ignore God's warnings and will eventually fall away.