i feel like i found a major contradiction

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OwenHeidenreich

Guest
#1
#1
I know it is not, I am just deeply in God's Romans letter right now and I am confused


romans 3:13 .... but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous.

romans 3:20 Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God's sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin.
 
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Ariel82

Guest
#2
#2
there is righteousness that is good enough for salvation/ eternal life

and there is godliness that is obtained through obedience and walking with the Holy Spirit.

one God does for us through Jesus death on the cross: the righteousness that leads to eternal life.

the other is what God has taught us to do for the world for His glory.
 
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OwenHeidenreich

Guest
#3
#3
look at it again, i changed the verses, because this contradiction is way more clearly spoken
 
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Ariel82

Guest
#4
#4
Romans 3
[SUP]10 [/SUP]As it is written, None is righteous, just and truthful and upright and conscientious, no, not one.

[SUP]11 [/SUP]No one understands [no one intelligently discerns or comprehends]; no one seeks out God.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]All have turned aside; together they have gone wrong and have become unprofitable and worthless; no one does right, not even one!
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Their throat is a yawning grave; they use their tongues to deceive (to mislead and to deal treacherously). The venom of asps is beneath their lips.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]Their mouth is full of cursing and bitterness.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Their feet are swift to shed blood.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Destruction [as it dashes them to pieces] and misery mark their ways.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]And they have no experience of the way of peace [they know nothing about peace, for a peaceful way they do not even recognize].
[SUP]18 [/SUP]There is no [reverential] fear of God before their eyes.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, so that [the murmurs and excuses of] every mouth may be hushed and all the world may be held accountable to God.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]For no person will be justified (made righteous, acquitted, and judged acceptable) in His sight by observing the works prescribed by the Law. For [the real function of] the Law is to make men recognize and be conscious of sin [[SUP][a][/SUP]not mere perception, but an acquaintance with sin which works toward repentance, faith, and holy character].
[SUP]21 [/SUP]But now the righteousness of God has been revealed independently and altogether apart from the Law, although actually it is attested by the Law and the Prophets,
[SUP]22 [/SUP]Namely, the righteousness of God which comes by believing with personal trust and confident reliance on Jesus Christ (the Messiah). [And it is meant] for all who believe. For there is no distinction,
[SUP]23 [/SUP]Since all have sinned and are falling short of the honor and glory [SUP][b][/SUP]which God bestows and receives.
[SUP]24 [/SUP][All] are justified and made upright and in right standing with God, freely and gratuitously by His grace (His unmerited favor and mercy), through the redemption which is [provided] in Christ Jesus,
[SUP]25 [/SUP]Whom God put forward [[SUP][c][/SUP]before the eyes of all] as a mercy seat and propitiation by His blood [the cleansing and life-giving sacrifice of atonement and reconciliation, to be received] through faith. This was to show God’s righteousness, because in His divine forbearance He had passed over and ignored former sins without punishment.
[SUP]26 [/SUP]It was to demonstrate and prove at the present time ([SUP][d][/SUP]in the now season) that He Himself is righteous and that He justifies and accepts as righteous him who has [true] faith in Jesus.
 
4enlightment

4enlightment

Banned
#5
May 15, 2013
4,307
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0
#5
OwenHeidenreich said:
I know it is not, I am just deeply in God's Romans letter right now and I am confused


romans 3:13 .... but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous.

romans 3:20 Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God's sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin.
Click to expand...
?????

[h=3]Romans 3:13[/h]New International Version (NIV)

13 “Their throats are open graves;
their tongues practice deceit.”[a]
“The poison of vipers is on their lips.”

 
A

Ariel82

Guest
#6
#6
Romans 2 talks about the law that condemns all who if honest with themselves and their inability to keep God's commandments. and Romans 3 talks about how God showed the world a different type of righteousness that does not come from following the law but from having faith in Jesus and what He did and receiving His holy Spirit.
 
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RachelBibleStudent

Guest
#7
#7
this is much easier than it looks...

those who obey the law will be declared righteous...this is true...if you obeyed the law perfectly then you would be righteous...

but nobody can obey the law perfectly...which leads into the other verse...

nobody is declared righteous in God's sight by the works of the law...because nobody can obey the law perfectly...nobody can be righteous that way...

and that is why we need to be made righteous by faith instead...
 
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OwenHeidenreich

Guest
#8
#8
thank you love you
 
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nathan3

Guest
#9
#9
I think the Whole of Romans, is talking about How we fall short, and trying to make it by law Alone, will not work, unless your perfect, and no one is, so the law shows our sins, but we are the ones that sin, Not the law.

It's only through Christ that we can have eternal life and make it. The law will not do that for you... But not that the law is bad. After all it IS Gods words . God's Law.
 
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nathan3

Guest
#10
#10
OwenHeidenreich : Here is a detailed study for Romans. Take notes and study this .And you'll be more informed about Romans then most . I still have to study this myself.


[video=youtube;BDA6bx9NGl8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDA6bx9NGl8&list=PLbAwnNZCg-jbHm9h69zaY600unIvMyGOH&index=1[/video]

No need to re-post this video in this thread.
 
S

Skinski7

Banned
#11
Nov 26, 2011
3,818
62
0
#11
OwenHeidenreich said:
I know it is not, I am just deeply in God's Romans letter right now and I am confused


romans 3:13 .... but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous.

romans 3:20 Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God's sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin.
Click to expand...
There is no contradiction.

It is important to keep in mind that the law is a set of instructions given to man as a guide to right behaviour.

The reason that one cannot be declared righteous by the law is because righteousness is not the observance of rules and regulations.

Righteousness is established in love and flows from a heart that is pure.

The Pharisees had the law and boasted in it yet their hearts remained defiled. Thus when Jesus did good on the Sabbath they viewed it as an affront to the written law. They did not perceive that the written law had a spirit behind it.

Jesus healed a lame man and told him to pick up his mat and walk. This man was carrying his mat on the Sabbath and instead of the Pharisees being joyful about this wonderful miracle they only saw the letter of the law being violated. Their hearts were not right.

We should not speed due to it being dangerous. Yet in an emergency is it prudent to speed? Such is the spirit versus the letter.

Thus a righteous person will keep the righteousness of the law but will not be limited by the letter. A legalist only sees the letter and is thus actually in service of a shadow.

Thus we are to obey the royal law of love which is love God with all our heart, soul and mind and we are to love our neighbour as ourselves. Upon these two commandments is established the whole law and the prophets. If we love then are we under a written rule to "not murder"? No because to "not murder" will flow from the law of love.

Thus we obey the law but are not justified by the law. We are justified by a faith that works by love for it is love that fulfills the law. Faith does not void the law but establishes the law.
 
RedTent

RedTent

Banned
#12
Oct 31, 2011
8,200
182
0
#12
Skinski7 said:
There is no contradiction.

It is important to keep in mind that the law is a set of instructions given to man as a guide to right behaviour.

The reason that one cannot be declared righteous by the law is because righteousness is not the observance of rules and regulations.

Righteousness is established in love and flows from a heart that is pure.

The Pharisees had the law and boasted in it yet their hearts remained defiled. Thus when Jesus did good on the Sabbath they viewed it as an affront to the written law. They did not perceive that the written law had a spirit behind it.

Jesus healed a lame man and told him to pick up his mat and walk. This man was carrying his mat on the Sabbath and instead of the Pharisees being joyful about this wonderful miracle they only saw the letter of the law being violated. Their hearts were not right.

We should not speed due to it being dangerous. Yet in an emergency is it prudent to speed? Such is the spirit versus the letter.

Thus a righteous person will keep the righteousness of the law but will not be limited by the letter. A legalist only sees the letter and is thus actually in service of a shadow.

Thus we are to obey the royal law of love which is love God with all our heart, soul and mind and we are to love our neighbour as ourselves. Upon these two commandments is established the whole law and the prophets. If we love then are we under a written rule to "not murder"? No because to "not murder" will flow from the law of love.

Thus we obey the law but are not justified by the law. We are justified by a faith that works by love for it is love that fulfills the law. Faith does not void the law but establishes the law.
Click to expand...
This is a wonderful job of explaining. Except that I think that just as some religious sects in Jesus' day took the letter of the law too far so they lost the root of the law which is love, we sometimes take the root of the law of love so far that we lose the law. It is true we cannot have the Sabbath without love, but we also can't have the Sabbath without resting in the Lord through trust and love. If you say I have to do this and this for myself, I cannot rest, the Lord isn't capable nor can He be trusted to care for me this day, then you have lost the Sabbath. So we, as humans, need to set the law as God wrote it for us, as a marking post for our love.
 
J

Jamjay

Guest
#13
#13
All of Paul's letters r the same and they speak of i thing:Since creation,no man has ever pleased God by his personal strength(works).Man can only and have only pleased God when we rely on HIS SPIRIT to guide and help us to obey HIM(Grace).Check d scriptures and c all the men who lived in obedience to God,they themselves acknowledged that by there own strength they will fail but by God's Spirit they will do it(obey).Read Titus 2:11-12.
 
crossnote

crossnote

Senior Member
#14
Nov 24, 2012
30,709
3,650
113
#14
OwenHeidenreich said:
I know it is not, I am just deeply in God's Romans letter right now and I am confused


romans 3:13 .... but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous.

romans 3:20 Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God's sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin.
Click to expand...
point is there IS only ONE who is righteous. Those who place their faith in Him are declared righteous.
 
4enlightment

4enlightment

Banned
#15
May 15, 2013
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#15
19 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. 20 Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God’s sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin.

 It says that the laws were made to let us know that we aren't complete, we have faults. But by us practicing the laws doesn't make us complete but it shows how far we has missed the mark by us not able to perform these task. Now Jesus has came to show us how to become complete by putting us in senarios. For an example, if a man is cheating on his wife doesn't feel the pain that he is putting his wife through, but God will reverse that situation in order for the man can see the harm he has done ( Eye for an eye). But if he doesn't learned from this ordeal all the way until he dies, then he is a worthless soul.
 
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john832

Senior Member
#16
May 31, 2013
11,365
186
63
#16
OwenHeidenreich said:
I know it is not, I am just deeply in God's Romans letter right now and I am confused


romans 3:13 .... but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous.

romans 3:20 Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God's sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin.
Click to expand...
Short answer...

We are not righteous by obeying the Law, none of us obey perfectly but God gives His righteousness to those who do obey. Obedience is a condition to receive the Holy Spirit...

Act 5:32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.
 
B

Biblebob

Guest
#17
#17
It's your translation!
King James Verison
Rom 3:20 KJV
(20) Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
Biblebob
 
J

john832

Senior Member
#18
May 31, 2013
11,365
186
63
#18
Biblebob said:
It's your translation!
King James Verison
Rom 3:20 KJV
(20) Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
Biblebob
Click to expand...
The translation is just fine...

Jas 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
 
F

Fromdomlove

Guest
#19
#19
That's exactly what i was going to say.
 
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Biblebob

Guest
#20
#20
The whole puropse in Christ dieing for our sins is that we might be without sin. Jesus tells us that if you sin, your of ther devil. Jesus tells us we are to be perfect as our heavenly Father is perfect. This is also what Jesus told Nicode,us in John 3:1-5.

Mat 5:48 KJV
(48) Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

2Ti 3:16-17 KJV
(16) All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
(17) "That the man of God may be perfect", throughly furnished unto all good works.

1Jn 3:6-10 KJV
(6) Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
(7) Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
(8) He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
(9) Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
(10) In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

Biblebob

 
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