"I want a wife who will obey me"

[presidente]

Ephesians 5:22-33

The Instruction to the wife, for the wife (not the husband)
[SUP]22 [/SUP]Wives, submit yourselves to your own husbands as you do to the Lord. [SUP]23 [/SUP]For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. [SUP]24 [/SUP]Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.

The instruction to the husband (not the wife)

[SUP]25 [/SUP]Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her [SUP]26 [/SUP]to make her holy, cleansing[SUP][a][/SUP] her by the washing with water through the word, [SUP]27 [/SUP]and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless. [SUP]28 [/SUP]In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. [SUP]29 [/SUP]After all, no one ever hated their own body, but they feed and care for their body, just as Christ does the church— [SUP]30 [/SUP]for we are members of his body. [SUP]31 [/SUP]“For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh.”[SUP][b][/SUP] [SUP]32 [/SUP]This is a profound mystery—but I am talking about Christ and the church. [SUP]33 [/SUP]However, each one of you also must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband.

Concentrate on the command for the husband, rather than on the instruction to the wife, it is really simple. !!
If you can keep up your end and obey God then you have done right before the lord.. then see what you get in return, the instruction to the wife is not for you.. its for her.

MrM

A husband should focus on his own role to love his wife. But that doesn't mean he should ignore if his wife is not doing her role, or that he has no right to admonish her.

If you will notice, in those verses, a husbands role includes
- being the head of the wife
- being like Christ who washed the church with the water of the word.

If the wife isn't walking right in the faith (for example, not submitting, not being respectful), then the husband's role does coming into play, since he is the head, and he may need to instruct her in God's word.

Aside from the headship role, if you see a brother in error, the Leviticus says 'rebuke your neighbor frankly so that you do not share in his sin." Paul wrote to the Romans that they were 'able also to admonish one another.' The author of Hebrew writes in chapters 2 to exhort one another daily lest any of you be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin. Male or female, if your believing spouse is in some sin, shouldn't you point it out?

There is certainly no instruction to men not to tell women to submit to their husbands. The passage you quote was written by a man, telling wives to submit to their husbands.

 

[presidente]

That being the case in MY life, in submission to CHRIST and to the Word of God, IF I agree to marry, I will agree to the two things REQUIRED of a wife by scripture: submission to her husband and respect for her husband. Am I thrilled about the idea of submission? Not really. But I have learned that God's ways are higher and better for me than anything I can imagine. I trust my God's best for me and know that obedience to Him is better than sacrifice. (I Sam 15)

I think that's a wise understanding to reach BEFORE you decide on a partner.

Just think of another scenario Christian woman might face if they don't. Suppose they find a convenient interpretation to explain away these passages, or else just ignore them, and pay them no attention at all while looking for a spouse.

So the young woman finds a spouse WITHOUT considering the fact that she is required to submit to and obey her husband. Then, later, she realizes her thinking is wrong, and the way she treats her husband is wrong, so she starts submitting to him.

But since she didn't care too much about what those passages said before she got married, she did not carefully consider whether he was the type of man she could submit to. She married a man she could get along with if she was in control. So maybe she got a passive guy who didn't make decisions. Or maybe she got a selfish guy, but one she could manipulate into doing what she wanted. But she stops manipulating him, and she has to suffer for her foolish decisions.

It's better to embrace the idea as a single person BEFORE deciding on marriage, and take that into account with your criteria, like what you say below.

HOWEVER, that will not be my only consideration. I will not marry any man who does not love and respect me as I do him, no matter how much I care for him. I will not marry a man who does not submit to the Lord above all. I will not marry a man who treats women as toys, as I could not respect such a man. I will not marry a man who has no respect for the mind and heart gifted to me by God, Himself (even Esther's king, who was an unbeliever, did better than this back in the day). I will not marry a man who does not understand that I have a calling in Christ as well. I will not marry a man who does not understand that the life of a Christian is SERVICE, not to BE SERVED. I will not marry a man who reads the first few lines of a passage, but chooses to ignore the rest of it.

Well, it's good that you have that kind of criteria. If we are talking about a Christian couple, the kind of man who could get away with saying, "I want a wife who will obey me" to a potential candidate to be his wife just might be the kind of man she feels safe with, who she knows would love and serve her sacrificially. It makes more sense in that way. Jesus could pull of saying, "If ye love me, keep my commandments" without loosing any disciples. They knew that He loved them, and He commanded them to love one another.

And I must admit that I am having a great deal of difficulty respecting a man who generalizes negatively about an entire nation of ladies in the manner I have read in this thread and in others.

I suspect this may directed toward me. I am taken, though, so that aspect of it doesn't really matter. Not that you were going there. I believe what I said about a whole nation of women is that the average woman in the US may not make a good spouse. Btw, I think that is true of most men in the US as well. I get the impression that the average American single person just may be a fornicator. As I recall, most of my arguments about women in churches was basically starting from the other posters point of view, if you think most women in churches are infected by feminism, that doesn't mean you can't find a woman in a church who isn't, or find a subculture that isn't, or go overseas. I don't agree that Christian men should give up marriage because feminism is influential. A man marries an individual woman, not all the statistics and social problems in a society.

 

[presidente]

I don't agree with that at all. Dominance is a position that must be earned, it is not something a woman automatically owes any man. The submission must be done willingly.....it kind of sounds like your framing it as the woman should not be able to make that choice and must automatically submit to you period. Forgive me if I am wrong because I don't want to accuse you of that if I'm mistaken, but that's what it sounds like to me.

I wouldn't use the word 'dominance.' It has too many unnecessary connotations. Submission is a sticky enough choice of words as it is, but that is the word used in most English translations of the Bible. A wife should wilfullly submit to her husband. If she chooses not to, she disobeys the word of God.

The statement was one I paraphrased from someone else who shared what he said to his wife. I didn't say that to mine when we were dating, but it might have been a good thing to say just to feel out where she was on the issue after some trust was built up. We both sensed it was the Lord bringing us together, and I probably could have said that on the first date and still married her. I didn't. We did talk about the idea of a wife submitting to her husband, and she agreed with that.

 

[Jullianna]

I think that's a wise understanding to reach BEFORE you decide on a partner.

Just think of another scenario Christian woman might face if they don't. Suppose they find a convenient interpretation to explain away these passages, or else just ignore them, and pay them no attention at all while looking for a spouse.

So the young woman finds a spouse WITHOUT considering the fact that she is required to submit to and obey her husband. Then, later, she realizes her thinking is wrong, and the way she treats her husband is wrong, so she starts submitting to him.

But since she didn't care too much about what those passages said before she got married, she did not carefully consider whether he was the type of man she could submit to. She married a man she could get along with if she was in control. So maybe she got a passive guy who didn't make decisions. Or maybe she got a selfish guy, but one she could manipulate into doing what she wanted. But she stops manipulating him, and she has to suffer for her foolish decisions.

It's better to embrace the idea as a single person BEFORE deciding on marriage, and take that into account with your criteria, like what you say below.



Well, it's good that you have that kind of criteria. If we are talking about a Christian couple, the kind of man who could get away with saying, "I want a wife who will obey me" to a potential candidate to be his wife just might be the kind of man she feels safe with, who she knows would love and serve her sacrificially. It makes more sense in that way. Jesus could pull of saying, "If ye love me, keep my commandments" without loosing any disciples. They knew that He loved them, and He commanded them to love one another.



I suspect this may directed toward me. I am taken, though, so that aspect of it doesn't really matter. Not that you were going there. I believe what I said about a whole nation of women is that the average woman in the US may not make a good spouse. Btw, I think that is true of most men in the US as well. I get the impression that the average American single person just may be a fornicator. As I recall, most of my arguments about women in churches was basically starting from the other posters point of view, if you think most women in churches are infected by feminism, that doesn't mean you can't find a woman in a church who isn't, or find a subculture that isn't, or go overseas. I don't agree that Christian men should give up marriage because feminism is influential. A man marries an individual woman, not all the statistics and social problems in a society.

There are more godly women in this country and in this forum than you could possibly know and your posts have become highly disrespectful toward them.

If a man is satisfied with being viewed by his wife as no more than her master and her meal ticket, I wish him well. That in no way mirrors our relationship with Christ. It is a mockery thereof. If you are married, then I am wondering why it is that you are bombarding this forum with these types of threads, but I've truly lost interest at this point. All is becoming redundant. Peace. Out.

 

[BananaPie]

As you may know, the Spanish word for “Good-Bye” is “Adios,” which literally means “to God” as in “to God entrust your journey.”

What is not commonly known outside Iberoamerica is that the Spanish word for cuff, as in hand-cuffs, is “esposas,” which is, literally, the word for “wife.”

The Spanish word for cuff, as a noun, is also the same word for “wife.”
The Spanish word for “husband” is the male-form of cuff, “esposo.”
For example, “BananaPie is his wife” would literally translate to “BananaPie is his cuff.”

Also, the Spanish word for cuff, as a verb, is also the same word for “betroth” esposar. For example, “Joseph & Mary were betroth” would literally translate as “Joseph & Mary were hand-cuffed.” (Jose & Maria se esposaron). The idea here is that Joseph & Mary “cuff” themselves.

Interesting enough, if the police were to apprehend and hand-cuff Joseph & Mary, the sentence would change to who is doing the cuffing. “A Jose & Maria los esposaron.” The idea here is the Joseph & Mary were “cuffed” by somebody else.

Furthermore, the Spanish word for “submission” has a humiliating tone to it. In Spanish it’s understood that anybody “in submission” is being humiliated by another in power or control over the person “in submission.” Hence, in the Spanish Bible, the word “submit,” as in wives submit to your husbands, was not used. Instead, the word “sujeta” (to fasten or to keep firmly secured in one position) is read.

Consequently, among Spanish & Italian saints, it is understood that the wife is to be fasten, as in securely attached in obedience to her husband. The thought originates from 4 Bible passages:

a) the Church (the Bride of Christ) is “sujeta” (fasten) to Christ and
b) the Church (the Bride of Christ) has been “cuff” (betroth) to Christ
c) My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow Me
d) “the two shall become one” is a parallel to “I and the Father are one.”

In conclusion, there is no such thing as a perfect marriage because we are all imperfect people. Even the most godly among us are prone to drudgery & divorce. Yet, “who can separate us from the love of Christ?” When a man & a woman are both anchored, fasten and cuffed in obedience to Christ, and they actually love to respect each other as they would respect Christ, then Behold! Godly marriages do happen.

 

[Jullianna]

The Word of God makes it clear that the relationship between a man and his wife is intended to reflect and give us understanding of aspects of our relationship with Christ (the Spirit and the Bride say come, and other references). If He had intended that relationship to be a mindless, heartless puppet/master relationship, He could have tossed free will out of the window and created robots, but He didn't. One who understands love knows that if it is not freely given by both parties it is worthless. I pray that anyone considering marriage contemplates this above all. Marriage is a holy thing and I feel it has been cheapened somewhat here.

I Corinthians 13 If I speak in the tongues of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal.

 

[BananaPie]

Ladies, let's say you are dating a man and he says he is looking for a wife who will submit to him and obey him. How would you react to that?

Well, I don't date, but I do agree that it's becoming of a brother to court a sister as he leads her mind to more godly & happy thoughts towards God. By default, a wise sister would understand she is being favored and would be content to obediently respond to the brother's leading.

Would it scare you off?

LOL, like not. It's much easier to willfully follow a capable mind than to lead an unwilling and sluggish mind.

If he seemed to be a godly man with a vision for what he wanted his marriage to be like, would you like it if he said [to obey him]?

Any person requesting obedience has already lost control of his subjects. Any wife unwilling to obey her godly husband is already out-of-bound with Christ because if she cannot obey a godly man whom she sees, how exactly is she obeying the Holy Spirit of God Whom she cannot see?

I don't have any issue obeying my husband or being corrected by him because I see God has favored the husband to be my governor, protector, my crown & glory. I would have a problem with a brother who is insecure and is, therefore, continually telling me to obey him when he's not leading me anywhere. Obedience and respect go hand-in-hand.

 

[thecreationtutor]

then be a man who can be respecable

 

[NodMyHeadLikeYeah]

and i'd like a husband who will obey me..... i've been told that's not how things work though.

 

[BananaPie]

I think a good question for a single woman of God to ask herself if a man is interested in her is, "Can I submit to this man?" That can weed out a lot of potential husbands.

Yeah, that's stuff you hear among Calvinists and some Pentecostals. LOL

The question I ask myself when a brother is dancing Psalms around me is, "Does he love the Lord more than I do, and why? The answer usually weeds out a lot of husband wanna-be's.

 

[GRA]

I don't agree with that at all. Dominance is a position that must be earned, it is not something a woman automatically owes any man. The submission must be done willingly.....it kind of sounds like your framing it as the woman should not be able to make that choice and must automatically submit to you period. Forgive me if I am wrong because I don't want to accuse you of that if I'm mistaken, but that's what it sounds like to me.

It is not her choice. Nor is it his choice. It is God's will and way for His creation.

It is not about the husband. It is not about the wife. It is about what God wants.

God wants the husband to love his wife. That is his God-given responsibility. God commands and requires it of him.

God wants the wife to obey her husband. That is her God-given responsibility. God commands and requires it of her.

If a husband does anything short of "loving his wife" as the scriptures indicate - he has not lived up to his God-given responsibility.

If a wife does anything short of "obeying her husband" as the scriptures indicate - she has not lived up to her God-given responsibility.

Should the husband have the proper attitude towards his wife? And, with a willing heart and mind? Of course. Absolutely!

Should the wife have the proper attitude towards her husband? And, with a willing heart and mind? Of course. Absolutely!

Why?

Because it is what God commanded.

And, if both husband and wife [each] fulfill their responsibility to God - out of love for God - out of trust of God - out of respect for the will of God -- then they have done well for having obeyed the commandment of God.

If either husband or wife fails to fulfill their responsibility to God - there will be problems in the marriage. Why? Because, by not following the 'recipe' for marriage that God has given - they allow Satan "space" in their marriage. ( "And Satan will 'mess with it' if you give him half a chance..." )

Now - understand that the 'proper attitude' of the husband toward his wife is not the exact same as the 'proper attitude' of the wife towards her husband. And, I hope the following will illustrate sufficiently that this is the way it should be...

God designed men and women a bit differently so that they could / would compliment each other.

Women have the built-in 'need' to be loved. They need someone to love them.

Men have the built-in 'need' to love. They need someone to love.

Men need to 'give' love. Women need to 'receive' love.

Please understand the context. In general, as human beings - we all need to love and be loved - to give and receive affection - etc... However, I am trying to illustrate something special and specific about the "inner workings" of men and women - and how God designed them to compliment each other.

Women have a "core functional requirement" to be cherished.

Men have a "core functional requirement" to be respected.

God designed us this way with purpose.

These two things are complimentary. They are not opposites.

Both are required to be "exercised" together in a complimentary fashion in order for a marriage to work successfully. Why? Because that is the way God designed it.

It is a "mirror reflection" of Jesus and His bride / wife.

And, experientially speaking - the man "sees" both sides of this "reflection" in the marital relationship. He is the 'husband' in the 'physical' relationship with his earthly wife - and the 'wife' in the 'spiritual' relationship with Christ. The woman only "sees" ( experientially speaking ) the one side of this "reflection" in the marital relationship. She is the 'wife' in the 'physical' relationship as well as in the 'spiritual' relationship also.

This unique experiential situation serves ( or should serve ) as a constant reminder to the man as to what kind of 'husband' he should be - in loving and cherishing his wife - based on what expection he should have of being the 'wife'. Strong incentive indeed!

It also serves ( or should serve ) as a constant reminder to the woman as to what kind of wife she should be - in respecting and obeying her husband - based on the "one side" that she is given by God.

This may not seem "fair" to some. And - if not - then, your argument is with God.

God does not allow the woman to "be the man" -- it is that simple -- it is what God wants.

Does this mean that to "be the man" gives him right or privilege to mistreat or disregard his wife? Of course not!

The husband has a "double" responsibility. Not only is he held responsible by God for himself - but for his wife, also.

The 'proper attitude' of a husband toward his wife is one of love, gentleness, and patience - and "looks out for her" and "provides for her" in every possible way...

The 'proper attitude' of a wife toward her husband is one of admiration, respect, and submission - and "upholds him" and "supports him" in every possible way...

Why does this issue come up so often?

Because women are afraid that the husband will not "love and cherish" the wife as he ought to, according th the scriptures.

Because men are afraid that the wife will not "respect and obey" the husband as she ought to, according th the scriptures.

As I said before:

Both are required to be "exercised" together in a complimentary fashion in order for a marriage to work successfully. Why? Because that is the way God designed it.

Neither one truly works without the other.

The idea of - "you do your part and then I will do mine" - will not work. It takes both - at the same time - working together - complimenting each other -- and, glorifying God in the process because that is the way He wants it...

God designed marriage this way with purpose - to balance our relationships - and, to keep us focused on Him and His ways...

 

[GRA]

Because women are afraid that the husband will not "love and cherish" the wife as he ought to, according th the scriptures.

Because men are afraid that the wife will not "respect and obey" the husband as she ought to, according th the scriptures.

Because women are afraid that the husband will not "love and cherish" the wife as he ought to, according to the scriptures.

Because men are afraid that the wife will not "respect and obey" the husband as she ought to, according to the scriptures.

 

[GRA]

This unique experiential situation serves ( or should serve ) as a constant reminder to the man as to what kind of 'husband' he should be - in loving and cherishing his wife - based on what expection he should have of being the 'wife'.

This unique experiential situation serves ( or should serve ) as a constant reminder to the man as to what kind of 'husband' he should be - in loving and cherishing his wife - based on what expectation he should have of being the 'wife'.

 

[Stuey]

If I'm going to lay down my life for a Lady I'd like to her to submit to me... but not in a domineering sense at all.

The way OP phrases it concerns be quite a bit, she must have been besotted.

 

[Jordache]

A good man is worth submitting to. My bf and I have had this discussion a few times and I honestly have little hesitation about the submission except I don't always know what it looks like. He's proven that he knows how to make wise decisions, he will listen and consider my input, and would never wish to do something to unecessarily harm me.

 

[MrOrganic100]

I read a post once about a man who said after he had been dating his wife, he told her he wanted a woman who would obey him and have more sex with him than most modern women would tolerate. He also wanted to have lots and lots of kids, he told her. She was cool with that.

I'll forget about that last part for this post. I was thinking about this while contributing to the feminism discussion in another post.

Ladies, let's say you are dating a man and he says he is looking for a wife who will submit to him and obey him. How would you react to that? Would it scare you off? If he seemed to be a godly man with a vision for what he wanted his marriage to be like, would you like it if he said that? Would you be apathetic too it?

('obey' comes up in the discussion of wifely submission in I Peter 3.)

As you can see from the previous posts, the majority of Christian women reject submission to a husband. This is what I was talking about the other day. Most women in church refuse to obey this commandment. This is why feminism is such a problem. Yet I read article after article telling Christian men to man up and pursue marriage. Most Christian women want a husband who doesn't believe in submission--probably a male feminist. But in reality, women who refuse to submit to their husbands are actually disobeying God:

Now to the married I command, yet not I but the Lord (1 Corinthians 7:10). The Lord gave these commandments to the apostle Paul, yet I've met so many Christians who actually believe that Paul's writings are irrelevant. They say that they obey Jesus, not Paul. Well, Paul's commandments came from the Lord. If you don't obey Paul, you are disobeying God. The real issue is that people don't like what Paul said. But they fail to acknowledge that Paul's instructions came from the Lord. And Jesus said, "If you love Me, keep My commandments."

So now we have a generation of Christians who profess to love God, yet they pick and choose what parts of the Bible to obey. No wonder Jesus said that only few will enter heaven. I think people forget that eternity is a long time. The majority of Christian women won't submit and obey their husbands because of pride. Feminism has penetrated the church. I can't see things getting better. Not until the Lord returns.

 

[BananaPie]

A good man is worth submitting to... except I don't always know what [godly submission] looks like.

What does godly submission look like?

Well, from years of experience in dwelling among the saints and dwelling among those other snarky “saints,” godly submission is best observed when it’s lacking in somebody else’s marriage.

Submission is the genuine pleasure the wife draws in obeying her husband for the love of God.

Submission is the behavior of enjoying to agree with the husband, especially in all final household decisions and godly marital character. Submission is a wife’s genuine attitude to wholesomely cooperate with the leading of her husband even when the husband seems to be wrong.

***Don’t confuse being wrong with intentional sinning, for godly women do not submit to sin nor abuse, yet godly woman are capable of gracefully forgiving a wrong.***

Submission is possessing the willingness to be taught clear boundaries by the husband; to be content in being governed by the husband within those boundaries because that is the relationship God the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit share among them. God has set boundaries, which the Son and the Holy Spirit subject themselves to and obey joyfully. The Lord Jesus said, “I have come to do my Father’s will.”

Godly women also seek “to do my Father’s will.” In such loyal quest, submission is seeking the mind of Christ because godly women understand we have a big mouth attached to racing thoughts. LOL.

Therefore, godly submission is remaining loyal to Christ especially when the husband has a flat tire and forgot his tools. Rather than telling the husband what a jerks he’s been, a godly attitude of submission takes over by having the right mind and proper opportunity to kindly speak the truth to the husband by challenging him to holier, more virtuous thoughts when she finds godly discernment in her heart.

 

[TyC113]

A husband should focus on his own role to love his wife. But that doesn't mean he should ignore if his wife is not doing her role, or that he has no right to admonish her.

If you will notice, in those verses, a husbands role includes
- being the head of the wife
- being like Christ who washed the church with the water of the word.

If the wife isn't walking right in the faith (for example, not submitting, not being respectful), then the husband's role does coming into play, since he is the head, and he may need to instruct her in God's word.

Aside from the headship role, if you see a brother in error, the Leviticus says 'rebuke your neighbor frankly so that you do not share in his sin." Paul wrote to the Romans that they were 'able also to admonish one another.' The author of Hebrew writes in chapters 2 to exhort one another daily lest any of you be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin. Male or female, if your believing spouse is in some sin, shouldn't you point it out?

There is certainly no instruction to men not to tell women to submit to their husbands. The passage you quote was written by a man, telling wives to submit to their husbands.

This is absolutely amazing to say. Let's discuss the implications of this whole wives obey your husbands no matter what teaching that is still taught. Let's see the damage this would cause if this was wide-scale in churches.

We as guys have to remember that a girl is a sister in Christ as well as a wife, and the job of both partners is to pull each other closer to Him. A cord of three strands will not be easily broken. That is the thing. Both partners should be complimentary pieces in the ministry of marriage. Marriage is its own ministry, so just imagine saying that I make my wife do sex acts she does not like would look to the outside world. People would say Christians are terrible husbands, then. We already have a world that is giving up on marriage now for cohabitation and casual sex, and I think it's because they see the divorce rate and terrible marriages now. Christians need to point to the greatness of marriage, but the only way to do this is to fix the current marriages now.

There are so many things wrong in the Christian world, and it's not just feminism as one person put it. I remember hearing in one group of people (Christians, mind you) that you should get divorced if you are "unhappy and unfulfilled". If that isn't the most selfish thing I had heard, I don't know what is. I didn't actually know this until I had heard it, but marriage in the U.S. is the only contract that can be divorced by only one person. So if a husband is unhappy, he could get away and put away his wife at any time. How silly to me! I just think that selfism has penetrated into marriage, and it's only about what this person could potentially do for me and marrying the man/woman of my dreams. Only God should fill our holes, not another person.

See, I believe it and see it as the Bible and that is that God hates divorce, and it should try to be avoided at all costs. Even in churches, that is unpopular. People just believe that God forgives that like it's all ok. Then they can do what they want and just go on. I think that is heretical. So now, we have this pseudo-Christian institution called marriage that is only a momentary phase instead of the life-giving treasure called marriage that was supposed to be until death do you part.

So my point is that while the wives obey your husband needs better teaching and dialogue, the divorce thing needs fixing too. Then perhaps marriage would finally be the eye's desire of many people, not the death sentence.

 

[MrMalby]

If you will notice, in those verses, a husbands role includes
- being the head of the wife
- being like Christ who washed the church with the water of the word.

If the wife isn't walking right in the faith (for example, not submitting, not being respectful), then the husband's role does coming into play, since he is the head, and he may need to instruct her in God's word.

He may need to re-examine why the wife is not being respectful or submitting, the first person he should look at is himself he should question if he is keeping his part of the command, men seem to always want to look at the woman when things go wrong, as the head men should be self examining. He should not live to please himself but rather for his wife, this is his command.

There is certainly no instruction to men not to tell women to submit to their husbands. The passage you quote was written by a man, telling wives to submit to their husbands.

Actually though a man wrote it, as I understand it the command came from beyond both man and woman, from the Lord.

And again when addressing posts their seems to be a trend by men to concentrate on the command to the woman, and woman are blamed for being 'rebellious' when men discard at will their role and become fixated on a command that wasn't even given to them.

I suspect men have problems finding 'obedient' wives simply because they neglect the command given to them. In other words men have problems finding a woman obedient to the Lords command because they are disobedient to the Lord's command, and men, being the head should first set the example, so that the bride can follow the example.

Christ who did not even please himself, but gave himself for the church, in the same way men should be obedient to the command on marriage, thus bringing blessings and joy, and making a place for the wife to submit., No one man or woman will desire to submits to arrogance.

It is vital that the man be Christ like, as the head.. and lead in submission first to the Lords command, the woman seeing the man's submission to the Lord, then finds in her heart to trust the Lord's indwelling and wisdom in the man.

Romans 15 1-4
1We who are strong ought to bear with the failings of the weak and not to please ourselves. 2Each of us should please our neighbors for their good, to build them up. 3For even Christ did not please himself but, as it is written: “The insults of those who insult you have fallen on me.”[SUP]a[/SUP] 4For everything that was written in the past was written to teach us, so that through the endurance taught in the Scriptures and the encouragement they provide we might have hope.

We should not be looking at our woman for answers to this questions, in desperation, and to fulfil our own ego's, instead we men should submit first to the Lord, and obey the marriage command given to us, and the woman seeing this place of safety and love, will.. in her heart submit just indeed as she does to Christ.

MrM

 

[MrOrganic100]

This is absolutely amazing to say. Let's discuss the implications of this whole wives obey your husbands no matter what teaching that is still taught. Let's see the damage this would cause if this was wide-scale in churches.

We as guys have to remember that a girl is a sister in Christ as well as a wife, and the job of both partners is to pull each other closer to Him. A cord of three strands will not be easily broken. That is the thing. Both partners should be complimentary pieces in the ministry of marriage. Marriage is its own ministry, so just imagine saying that I make my wife do sex acts she does not like would look to the outside world. People would say Christians are terrible husbands, then. We already have a world that is giving up on marriage now for cohabitation and casual sex, and I think it's because they see the divorce rate and terrible marriages now. Christians need to point to the greatness of marriage, but the only way to do this is to fix the current marriages now.

There are so many things wrong in the Christian world, and it's not just feminism as one person put it. I remember hearing in one group of people (Christians, mind you) that you should get divorced if you are "unhappy and unfulfilled". If that isn't the most selfish thing I had heard, I don't know what is. I didn't actually know this until I had heard it, but marriage in the U.S. is the only contract that can be divorced by only one person. So if a husband is unhappy, he could get away and put away his wife at any time. How silly to me! I just think that selfism has penetrated into marriage, and it's only about what this person could potentially do for me and marrying the man/woman of my dreams. Only God should fill our holes, not another person.

See, I believe it and see it as the Bible and that is that God hates divorce, and it should try to be avoided at all costs. Even in churches, that is unpopular. People just believe that God forgives that like it's all ok. Then they can do what they want and just go on. I think that is heretical. So now, we have this pseudo-Christian institution called marriage that is only a momentary phase instead of the life-giving treasure called marriage that was supposed to be until death do you part.

So my point is that while the wives obey your husband needs better teaching and dialogue, the divorce thing needs fixing too. Then perhaps marriage would finally be the eye's desire of many people, not the death sentence.

I believe the two main causes of marriage decline is 1. Feminism, and 2. A lack of obedience to God's word. The reason I often bring up the issue of submission is this: Whenever Ephesians 5:25 is brought up I never ever ever see Christian men trying to get around it. It's true that there are Christian men who do not obey this commandment--to love their wives as Christ loved the church--but I've never been into a forum and witnessed Christian men trying to get around this verse. But one thing that I constantly see is Christian women trying to get around the submissive verses. I've come across Christian women who proudly admit that they would never submit to their husbands. If marriage in the church is to be revived, which I can't see happening, then we have to be able to identify the problem without being scoffed at. What I've witnessed over the years is that a good number of Christian women are pro feminism. Even many Christian men have become feminists. And besides, anybody can go to church these days. I actually believe that there are wolves in sheep's clothing--feminists, atheists, even satanists--who go to church to try to water down the gospel. If feminism is a big problem in church then we need to expose it and rebuke it.